81 replies to this topic

[Tony Matthews]

My father owned this little MG in the very late '40s/early '50s, and although I remember being driven about in it, including a couple of excrutiatingly-uncomfortable trips to Cornwall and back from Hertfordshire, I know almost nothing about it, and can't identify it. My mother told me once that it had a six-cylinder engine, but the exhaust is obviously contained by the bonnet, no sexy side-pipes here! It was obviously a bit ratty, and was replaced by an Invicta that was given more TLC, probably because my father was earning a bit more...

I've checked a couple of MG sites, but nothing quite matches this car - door shape, wings, exhaust etc. I have a front shot, but with two small children neatly hiding the registration plate. So, time, I thought, for TFN to ride over the hill, pennant aloft, bugle to the lips...

Edited by Tony Matthews, 22 August 2012 - 10:43.

[275 GTB-4]

My father owned this little MG in the very late '40s/early '50s, and although I remember being driven about in it, including a couple of excrutiatingly-uncomfortable trips to Cornwall and back from Hertfordshire, I know almost nothing about it, and can't identify it. My mother told me once that it had a six-cylinder engine, but the exhaust is obviously contained by the bonnet, no sexy side-pipes here! It was obviously a bit ratty, and was replaced by an Invicta that was given more TLC, probably because my father was earning a bit more...

I've checked a couple of MG sites, but nothing quite matches this car - door shape, wings, exhaust etc. I have a front shot, but with two small children neatly hiding the registration plate. So, time, I thought, for TFN to ride over the hill, pennant aloft, bugle to the lips...

Lovely pics...it looks like a Magna...but I'm no drip under pressure

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 22 August 2012 - 10:47.

[nicanary]

I'm no MG expert, but I think it could be a Magna, which usually had factory-fitted flowing wings, but could have had cycle wings fitted quite easily. The 6-cyl engine (ex-Wolseley) would account for the long bonnet. A pretty potent piece of kit for the day.

[kayemod]

Absolutely no help at all Tony, but my Dad had one exactly the same. As I'd have been about two when he swapped it for something slightly more sensible, there's nothing I can tell you

[Tony Matthews]

Lovely pics...it looks like a Magna...but I'm no drip under pressure

The one other detail that I missed from my opening post was that my mother also mentioned Magna, but it doesn't seem to look much like any of the photographs I've seen of genuine Magnas.

[275 GTB-4]

The one other detail that I missed from my opening post was that my mother also mentioned Magna, but it doesn't seem to look much like any of the photographs I've seen of genuine Magnas.

But it was an era of customer ordered bodies and options etc...so may still well be Magna with a few "mods"

[Tony Matthews]

Absolutely no help at all Tony, but my Dad had one exactly the same. As I'd have been about two when he swapped it for something slightly more sensible, there's nothing I can tell you

Guessing at our age difference, Rob, could we be long-seperated brothers? Probably not...

[Kingsleyrob]

Hi Tony, as a fully paid up member of the MG Car Club I'm sure I'll have some contacts who'll be able to help.

I'll ask them to don deerstalker and magnifying glass to see if the mystery can be solved, although earlier posters seem to already have at least partly amswered your question.

Rob

[Tony Matthews]

I'm no MG expert, but I think it could be a Magna, which usually had factory-fitted flowing wings, but could have had cycle wings fitted quite easily. The 6-cyl engine (ex-Wolseley) would account for the long bonnet. A pretty potent piece of kit for the day.

It occured to me that it could have been modified in that way, but I couldn't see any obvious signs of earlier, full-length wings having been removed. It looks fairly battered in the photos, but then it had been through a war, probably treated with abandon by young fliers, medical students, my father being one. However, I can't imagine him ever being careless with it.

But it was an era of customer ordered bodies and options etc...so may still well be Magna with a few "mods"

This is also possible. We are so used to mass-produced clones that it is easy to forget that so many cars were built to a variety of styles and whims.

Hi Tony, as a fully paid up member of the MG Car Club I'm sure I'll have some contacts who'll be able to help.

I'll ask them to don deerstalker and magnifying glass to see if the mystery can be solved, although earlier posters seem to already have at least partly amswered your question.

Rob

Thanks Rob. I will have another look to see if there is a shot of the reg. no., it would be great to find that it still exists and is cared for...

[Allan Lupton]

Yes I'd say it was an F2 Magna. There are lots of photos on the interweb some showing those doors (more cutaway than most) and cycle wings, some with the front inner a la M type.
The bonnet-side lump on the n/s suggested the F type's pre-crossflow which has carbs that side - though what the purpose of the lump was I cannot guess. The L type was crossflow and IIRC had larger brakes.

[MatthewMagilton]

Yes, F2 or L type which probably started out with the standard body but became slightly modified over the years. Modified doors were not uncommon, Dads J type used to have deeper cut aways done by a previous owner. Interesting that the front guard inner flanges appear in one photo but not the other, just goes to show that changes were still taking place. The original motor could have been very worn by the time the war was over. I wonder if the engine was replaced with a different unit accounting for the side bulge? The bonnet top louvers were also non-standard. I hope you are able to establish the registration number.

Matthew.

[gwk]

The registration plate shows a little detail. In Photoshop, I think that I can see 'F9' as the first and second or second and third chracters. Someone with better PS skills or perhaps a higher resolution scan might be able to see more. Don't know anything about British license plates, and don't know whether that is useful.

Yes, F2 or L type which probably started out with the standard body but became slightly modified over the years. Modified doors were not uncommon, Dads J type used to have deeper cut aways done by a previous owner. Interesting that the front guard inner flanges appear in one photo but not the other, just goes to show that changes were still taking place. The original motor could have been very worn by the time the war was over. I wonder if the engine was replaced with a different unit accounting for the side bulge? The bonnet top louvers were also non-standard. I hope you are able to establish the registration number.

Matthew.

[RTH]

Lean back radiator long bonnet 6 cyl I would have said L type Magna.

[Derwent Motorsport]

Is there a photo showing the registration number?
The MMM Register at the MGCC will have all factory records and will come up with the chassis number and the make of body.

[bradbury west]

I know 5/8ths of the proverbial about old MGs, but looking at a marque reference compendium here I would incline towards an F1 Magna, 6 pot 1271cc, 1931/32. The cycle type rear wings match as do the two sets of side louvres on the bonnet, along with the sprung hook for the bonnet panels at the side rear, The standard door top is at say 45deg slope fr:rear so the curved mod is easily accounted for. The flat-topped bench seat matches too as do the wing-top sidelights.
Offered in good faith...............
Roger Lund

edit. The L type Magna had flowing front wings (as clamshell) leading to apparent running boards, along with a fully shaped, near "casque" style rear wings

Edited by bradbury west, 22 August 2012 - 18:46.

[Jagjon]

I know 5/8ths of the proverbial about old MGs, but looking at a marque reference compendium here I would incline towards an F1 Magna, 6 pot 1271cc, 1931/32. The cycle type rear wings match as do the two sets of side louvres on the bonnet, along with the sprung hook for the bonnet panels at the side rear, The standard door top is at say 45deg slope fr:rear so the curved mod is easily accounted for. The flat-topped bench seat matches too as do the wing-top sidelights.
Offered in good faith...............
Roger Lund

edit. The L type Magna had flowing front wings (as clamshell) leading to apparent running boards, along with a fully shaped, near "casque" style rear wings

F2 Magna 2 seater with 12" brakes, bonnet has short sides & seperate panel over the chassis also the vents longer than F1 which had bonnet sides longer which covered the chassis & smaller brakes, as you say different bonnet catches to the L Magna which had swept wings & no sign of removed wings or running boards.
Lump on the side was where the carbs would be on a Wolseley Hornet based engine I think. Oh I think F1 Magnas were all 4 seater or saloon.
The body was more J2 like with the longer bonnet & rear wards slope to the radiator. Just my 2p worth as an ex J.P.K.N owner but ne'r a Magna, they were rare even in 1960.
There was one in Colwyn Bay with Ford pop 1172 engine transplant, blue if I remember correctly, doors got cut because there was originally high doors over which you could not lean an elbow unlike later cars JPetc. which had the lower cut away. Rare as in I think fewer than 50 built.

Edited by Jagjon, 22 August 2012 - 19:14.

[bradbury west]

F2 Magna 2 seater with 12" brakes, bonnet has short sides & seperate panel over the chassis also the vents longer than F1 which had bonnet sides longer which covered the chassis & smaller brakes, as you say different bonnet catches to the L Magna which had swept wings & no sign of removed wings or running boards.
Lump on the side was where the carbs would be on a Wolseley Hornet based engine I think. Oh I think F1 Magnas were all 4 seater or saloon.
The body was more J2 like with the longer bonnet & rear wards slope to the radiator. Just my 2p worth as an ex J.P.K.N owner but ne'r a Magna, they were rare even in 1960.

As I said, 5/8ths of the proverbial. However, I was simply referring to the model shown in the large ref book here with a period bw photo which shows the short side panels stopping atop the chassis rails, car is reg JB 658.
The book has no ref to an F2 magna, only the F1, then the K2 with flowing fr wings etc, and the L type Magna with 2 blocks of louvres. Happy to scan, albeit a small picture, and post as I was simply trying to help Tony's query.
Roger Lund

[Ray Bell]

If an engine transplant had been done, one might reasonably assume a Vauxhall Velox engine could dwell in there...

That would fit the bulge, too, if an SU were grafted onto it.

[David McKinney]

More likely something smaller and lighter, I would have thought, such as a Ford 10

[David Birchall]

I would say it is an F2 Magna of 1932. The "power bulge" may be just that-a supercharger bulge. The modification to the bonnet for the bulge and to the doors looks like it may be original--probably worth a fortune now!

ps I think that is my sister and I in the back, but not my mum...

A trip to Cornwall from anywhere would have been excruciating-especially for a tike perched in the back. Your mum must have almost had her teeth blown out too!

From "The Magic of The Marque" by Mike Allison:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by David Birchall, 22 August 2012 - 22:09.

[Tony Matthews]

Thanks to everyone - it is most unlikely that my father swopped engines, but it may have happened before he owned it. All I know is that my mother said it had a six cylinder engine. No negative or print showing the registration plate has surfaced, and I've mislaid the tiny print that I scanned showing a bit of the rear plate. I am hoping to find it and re-scan it at a much higher dpi, then fiddle with it to try to decipher the marks.

There would have been very little spare cash at that time for anything other than running repairs. It was replaced by a brand new Ford Popular (?), which, as a doctor, he had 'privilaged' access to, being able to queue-jump! He hated it, and managed to roll it onto its roof on a snowy road between Hemel Hempstead and St Albans with my mother and sister inside, whilst I lay in my sickbed, struggling with asthma. Abandoned for several hours, I thought it must be the end of the World. Then came the Invicta...

[Tony Matthews]

I would say it is an F2 Magna of 1932. The "power bulge" may be just that-a supercharger bulge. The modification to the bonnet for the bulge and to the doors looks like it may be original--probably worth a fortune now!

ps I think that is my sister and I in the back, but not my mum...

A trip to Cornwall from anywhere would have been excruciating-especially for a tike perched in the back. Your mum must have almost had her teeth blown out too!

I think that's it, David! There are many more positive points than negative, and the chief of those - the different doors, the 'power' bulge and the extra louvres on the bonnet top - could so easily have been changed/added, so unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'm going with the F2 Magna. I'll keep hunting for a reg. no., it would be good to find it still exists, as the Invicta does...

The Cornwall trip/s were indeed pergutory, the cramp was almost unbearable, and my mother was very long suffering. He didn't get a car that she would have like being in on long journeys in bad weather untill long after they divorced.

[D-Type]

If you went to Cornwall as a family in the MG, how did a change of clothes, nightwear, wash kit etc get there.

[Tony Matthews]

The chauffeuf brought that down in the Daimler. Well, we did it - we must have travelled light, I probably had very few clothes and a knitted swimming costume, a thin towel and what I wore. I imagine that my mother had a bag on her lap, and other stuff was just crammed in to any nook and cranny. Blimey, life, including holidays, wasn't a lot of fun in those days... Ooh, can I hear violins?

[Tony Matthews]

This photograph was taken at Thorpness in Suffolk, just before we left for home after a two-week holiday. All I can see is one bag.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
More likely something smaller and lighter, I would have thought, such as a Ford 10

I would rather have thought that the light six, with overhead valves and 1781cc, would have made a nice substitute that was unlikely to have been much heavier at all than the Wolseley unit, possibly no longer either.

[275 GTB-4]

It looks fairly battered in the photos, but then it had been through a war, probably treated with abandon by young fliers, medical students, my father being one. However, I can't imagine him ever being careless with it.

Tony..might I suggest that you should be looking for competition history (trials possibly?) to add to this magnificent machines provenance ;) Cheers, Mick

PS a visit to Kimber House may prove fruitfull..

[MatthewMagilton]

Any chance that your sister or some other family member could have other photos of the car?

Matthew.

[packapoo]

This photograph was taken at Thorpness in Suffolk, just before we left for home after a two-week holiday. All I can see is one bag.

Not very complimentary of your Mother!

[Tony Matthews]

[bradbury west]

I would say it is an F2 Magna of 1932. The "power bulge" may be just that-a supercharger bulge. The modification to the bonnet for the bulge and to the doors looks like it may be original--probably worth a fortune now!
From "The Magic of The Marque" by Mike Allison:

Thanks, David, at least I got the original picture correct, as the top shot is the same car/reg no. as the one in the book which I quoted, even if the glossy reference tome had the model wrongly cited as an F1.
Roger Lund

[Allan Lupton]

Just for those as don't know, MG used the letters for the basic model/type of car and the numbers for variations, 1 being four-seaters and 2 being two-seaters. 3 seems to be competition cars and 4 (not used much) out-and out racers. They dropped the numbers after the F, K, J and L types
The most familiar example would be the J2, the four-cylinder two-seater that first had what became the "MG Midget look" when the original cycle wings gave way to swept wings. The car in the photos would be an F2 which was contemporary with the early J2 and had a similar body and wings whereas the L2 got the swept wings.

[Odseybod]

I think I must also be in there somewhere, along with Tony, his sister and mother and David, as my father had a rather decrepit F Magna in the early '50s - later described as 'all fart and no sh*T' as although it sounded nice, it didn't have much oomph. Vague memories that the gearchange was back to front, too - but maybe that was my Dad's excuse for the occasional wrong-slot.

Replaced with a shiny new Hillman Minx Phase IV when he joined The Motor - very 'bleeding edge' then, but didn't smell nearly as good as the MG. I only have to get a whiff of hot metal, leaky oil and warm leather to be transported back to thrilling rides in "G Car" (Tony will no doubt confirm this is the official 2-year-old's pronunciation of "MG F-type Magna").

[Kingsleyrob]

Tony, our TNF sleuths have done a fine job so far, and my MG Car Club colleague Ray Masters has this to say:

"Have had a good look at the photos posted & come to much the same conclusion as the other guys. Tend to go for L-Type Magna myself but with modified doors (& ,maybe,
rear section of body ). However , an F2 is also a possibility . Both models had the 12"" brakes so no help there."

Rob

[Tony Matthews]

Kingsleyrob

Tony, our TNF sleuths have done a fine job so far, and my MG Car Club colleague Ray Masters has this to say:

Absolutely, I'm impressed and delighted, both to TNF and Ray Masters.

The side view photograph in "The Magic..." shows the rear side panel following the curve of the rear cycle mudguard to just before the door shut line, then it rapidly changes direction towards the scuttle, and this is the line that the 'standard' door takes. Me Dad's has this little kick-up, but the door top then swoops down in a rather clumsy fashion, then back up to the top of the hinge line. I can understand that someone felt the need for a bit more elbowroom, and altering the last bit of the rear side panel would have been a lot of work.

I'm still hoping to identify the individual car, but thanks to all for solving my little puzzle.

[David Birchall]

Now we need to find the competition history for this car!
Lotsa luvly louvres, cut down doors, skirt on driver's side front mudguard (but not passenger's), possibly a blower-smells of trials as somebody said.

Has anybody posted this on the Triple M forum? Vitesse?

Edited by David Birchall, 23 August 2012 - 17:34.

[RTH]

Cycle wings cut down doors possibly for trialing ? Land's End that sort of thing up steep muddy hills ?

[Vitesse2]

Now we need to find the competition history for this car!
Lotsa luvly louvres, cut down doors, skirt on driver's side front mudguard (but not passenger's), possibly a blower-smells of trials as somebody said.

Has anybody posted this on the Tripple M forum? Vitesse?

I'm pretty sure JMH will spot this one here.

If we don't solve it here, then - with Tony's permission - I'll post it at MMM.

[Tony Matthews]

Post away, V2, I'm still - sparodically - reg. no. seeking.

[arttidesco]

I'm still - sparodically - reg. no. seeking.

Sent you an e-mail on this matter Tony.

[Jagjon]

Post away, V2, I'm still - sparodically - reg. no. seeking.

Amazing contributions from everyone, v. interesting, it would be good to find out it's history.
Suggest you go on www.fmagna.org and post your photos as a mystery car.
If you look on the mystery cars you can see cars with the cut down doors. eg slide 51/75/76 & 133.
There's 300 photos to look at, keep you busy!
Your car has distinctive headlights which don't look standard, & the power bulge.
Problem is many cars will have been changed to 2 seater in more recent years & even your car could have been altered back in the day, but who knows, plus restoring an old car people would revert to the original high door.
Your car could well have been used for trials competition.
The power bulge for the manifolding would be for a car with crank driven supercharger but although there is a slightly large hump on the front valance there doesn't seem to be any sign of a carb. top sticking up. It may have been there & taken off reverting to carbs esp. in days of rationing during & after WW2.
Could be too, that having this type of power bulge bonnet to look like it was s/charged much as more modern times people have cars altered to look more up rated than they are.
A lot of cars went abroad especially to USA & Tom Metcalf in Ohio runs the triple M Register for USA, & he has a F2 with Jarvis body & the supercharger & power bulge.
http://www.remarkabl...932-mg-f-type-1
He owns an ex Lancs police car which maybe this one or an Ltype amongst his collection. Ask him tom metcalf safetyfast@zoominternet.net>
He also owns my first MG, a PB which I had in 1963.
Although MG supplied chassis to coachbuilders, this looks like a usual body & if so they didn't make many, & if the MMM still have the records it must be possible to find the likely registration.

[seldo]

How about this image of '32 F type ?
http://remarkablecar...age_Sports_Cars

[Allan Lupton]

How about this image of '32 F type ?
http://remarkablecar...age_Sports_Cars

That one has had a supercharger added and it is located between the dumbirons like the later K3s. As you can see in the other photos the carb is on the OS as the engine is pre-crossflow, unlike "real" supercharged MGs. The bulge, which of course has no carb sticking out of it, is not big enough to house the supercharger itself.

[mikeC]

...The power bulge for the manifolding would be for a car with crank driven supercharger but although there is a slightly large hump on the front valance there doesn't seem to be any sign of a carb. top sticking up. It may have been there & taken off reverting to carbs esp. in days of rationing during & after WW2...

Another factor - the insurance companies clamped down on supercharged cars in the late 1940s; my father had to remove the supercharger from his Austin Seven in 1949 when the insurance premium increased 300%...

[fivestar]

Perhaps the bulge was to avoid any acute angles for the inlet pipe from the supercharger?

That one has had a supercharger added and it is located between the dumbirons like the later K3s. As you can see in the other photos the carb is on the OS as the engine is pre-crossflow, unlike "real" supercharged MGs. The bulge, which of course has no carb sticking out of it, is not big enough to house the supercharger itself.

[David Birchall]

Another factor - the insurance companies clamped down on supercharged cars in the late 1940s; my father had to remove the supercharger from his Austin Seven in 1949 when the insurance premium increased 300%...

What an interesting piece of information-I am always amazed at what you can learn on TNF!

I spent about an hour going through photos on the F Magna site last night (i really must get a life) no links to this car though.

[JMH]

I only spotted it when you put it on the MMM Forum! I have little to add I'm afraid, as my "pile" has a distinctly J Type/K3 bias
JH

[mikeC]

What an interesting piece of information-I am always amazed at what you can learn on TNF!

I cannot remember specific figures, if I ever knew them, but from memory his insurance premiums went something like: Lagonda Rapier to Morgan 3-wheeler in 1938 (down 50%) to supercharged Austin Seven in 1945 (about the same), sudden rise in 1949 resulting in removal of the supercharger, dissatisfaction at the resultant performance loss and a return to Lagonda Rapier in 1950 with a premium down 50%!

[David Birchall]

Here is a link to the MMM Forum discussion started by Vitesse2:

http://www.triple-mr...p?TOPIC_ID=5886

[Tony Matthews]

Thanks for the link, David. Now I know how it feels to "go viral"!