58 replies to this topic

[Jimisgod]

So there was a Jalopnik article I couldn't get to load, and I thought, what would every one select as the greatest 15 racing circuits for 4-wheelers there have ever been? Circuits means the track is able to have "laps" so don't get cheeky.

For the simplicity of the thread, when considering substantial changes to a track, please put the years or series in which a certain configurations were used. For example the "Old Spa (1947 - 78)" and the "Current Spa (1979 - Now)". Be reasonable with what you consider a substantial change, so no petty spats please.

So, I would suggest:

Edit: 0.5. Targa Florio (1951-1977)

1. Nurburgring Nordschleife (All configurations)



2. Spa-Francorchamps (Current)



3. Mt Panorama, Bathurst (Current)



4. Charade Circuit (Pre-1988)

5. Monza (Combined circuit 1955 - 1961)

6. Circuit de la Sarthe, Le Mans (All configurations)

7. Road America, Elkhart Lake (Current)

8. Suzuka (Current)

9. Rouen-Les-Essarts

10. Brands Hatch (GP layout)

11. Circuit Mont-Tremblant (Pre 2004)

12. Road Atlanta (Current)

13. Watkins Glen (With boot)

14. Cadwell Park (Current)

15. Montjuïc Circuit

Hon. Mention. Macau Street Circuit

Hon. Mention. Zandvoort (Current)

Edited by Jimisgod, 29 August 2012 - 19:22.

[pingu666]

watkins without the boot is better.

your missing darlington and indy too

[joshb]

watkins without the boot is better.

your missing darlington and indy too

I also think Spa would be better in about 2002, before they messed around with the bus stop and before it was sanitised with tarmac runoffs.
I'm not saying its a bad circuit now because it isn't. Actually it's still one of the best on the calendar but it has gone a bit too far in terms of negating the ultimate challenge.
Suzuka has surpassed it for me of the current tracks but even that has not got tarmac at T1, Spoon and 130R

[Atreiu]

IMO,

1991 Hockenheim
Spa with the real bus stop
Elkheart Lake
2002 Suzuka
1985 Silverstone
Monza
Osterreichring
Salzburgring
Barthust
Phillip Island - its more a bike track but V8 races there, so...
Paul Ricard
Gilles Villeneuce
Mugello, more a bike track as well to me but has to be here
Pre chincane Imola
Cleveland airport track, I love it!

[Atreiu]

And Brands Hatch!

[BigCHrome]

Suzuka
Spa (Bus stop chicane)
Silverstone (With Bridge and Abbey)
Hockenheim (long layout)
Nurburgring (Castrol S version)
Melbourne Park
Osterreichring
Daytona
Road America
Watkins Glenn
Rouen-Les-Essarts 1956-1970
Kyalami pre 1988
Laguna Seca
Imola pre 1995
Mt. Panorama

I don't have Nordschleife on here because it's not a good racing track. It's an amazing place to lap on your own and etc. but racing against other cars there doesn't work well.

[pingu666]

eu rougue got opened/widened or something a few years back too, didnt it? same with 130R ?

and yes, the old style bus stop was soo much better

[byrkus]

Best track for a 4-wheeler?

Piccolo Madonie, Targa Florio 1932-77. All 72.1 km of it.



Even the Nordschleife is quite bleak compared to this one.

[AlexS]

The freedom of those times, now it is everything sanitized for 0 failure...

I prefer Monza because it has something atmosphere of wild racing specially with back straight - parabolica - main straight.

Edited by AlexS, 27 August 2012 - 18:05.

[pingu666]

i do love the ascari chicane in racing sims

want the layout audi use for testing, skips the first chicane

[FenderJaguar]

Worth mentioning

Spa, Monaco, Nurburgring
---
Suzuka, Road America
---
Silverstone, Monza
---
A1 Ring/Osterreichring, Brands Hatch, Oulton Park..


never did like or feel for old Hockenheim, Paul Ricard, Magny Cours...

[Morbus]

Best track for a 4-wheeler?

Piccolo Madonie, Targa Florio 1932-77. All 72.1 km of it.



Even the Nordschleife is quite bleak compared to this one.

DAYUM! Those names aren't corner names, they are city names!

[byrkus]

Indeed they are! Mostly fortified little towns high in mountains, with nothing more but a country road between them. Can't get any greater than THAT.

[Muppetmad]

...and yet despite it's length, the Targa Florio has still been made on Grand Prix Legends.



Certainly not a circuit you'd learn off by heart quickly.

[joshb]

Best track for a 4-wheeler?

Piccolo Madonie, Targa Florio 1932-77. All 72.1 km of it.



Even the Nordschleife is quite bleak compared to this one.

Got that on rFactor! Took me 45 minutes to get round and i lost count how many times I crashed

[joshb]

Top 15 off the top of my head, in no particular order

Nurburgring Nordschleife
Suzuka pre 2003 changes (before 130R was eased)
Spa pre 1970 or pre 2002
Monaco pre 2002 (more challenging)
Charade
Rouen 1955-70
Le Mans pre 1990 (was tempted to say pre Porsche curves but they are as good as maison blanche)
Silverstone pre 1973
Macau
Targa Florio
Osterreichring (pre chicane)
Masaryk (old Brno) that's a nightmare on GPL to get round
Bathurst
Road America/Elkhart Lake
Kylami old layout

[BrazilianMcLarenFan]

Great list.

I add one more.

Interlagos before 1989 rebuilt



Great Track!

[scheivlak]

Silverstone pre 1973

Silverstone 1973 was exactly like it was in 1972 (or basically like it was 20 years before).

Maybe you mean 1975 (including the Woodcote chicane)?

[joshb]

Silverstone 1973 was exactly like it was in 1972 (or basically like it was 20 years before).

Maybe you mean 1975 (including the Woodcote chicane)?

Yes. I just remember it got changed after that big pileup in 1973.

[Kingshark]

Great list.

I add one more.

Interlagos before 1989 rebuilt



Great Track!

I agree. Why is Interlagos so underrated and overlooked?

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

What a beast of a track it would have been.

[Kop Alonso]

Quite surprised no one has mentioned Zandvoort or even Paul Ricard circa 1985 - Signes was an epic corner .

[H0R]

All original GPL tracks (Kyalami, Monza, Mosport, Monaco, Nürburgring, Spa, Glen, Rouen, Silverstone, Zandvoort, Mexico City) in their 67 layouts.
Add Suzuka, the original Österreichring, Elkhart Lake and I don't even need a fifteenth track.

[Les]

All original GPL tracks (Kyalami, Monza, Mosport, Monaco, Nürburgring, Spa, Glen, Rouen, Silverstone, Zandvoort, Mexico City) in their 67 layouts.
Add Suzuka, the original Österreichring, Elkhart Lake and I don't even need a fifteenth track.

Yeah pretty much all GPL tracks and I would add Osterreichring, Brno (old road course), Charade, pre-89 Interlagos, Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park & Reims.

Also I can't count.

[Atreiu]

Quite surprised no one has mentioned Zandvoort or even Paul Ricard circa 1985 - Signes was an epic corner .

I mentioned Paul Ricard!

[Kop Alonso]

I mentioned Paul Ricard!

I'l substitute it with Dijon then

PS Good choice in picking Salzburgring ...

[crespo]

Lots of love for Road America - any reason in particular? I'm very familiar with the layout, but not so much with its history or anything. I've done lots of virtual laps, and I consider it to be one of the harder tracks to really push on. Wouldn't have figured it to be that popular a track, though.

[aditya-now]

Great list.

I add one more.

Interlagos before 1989 rebuilt



Great Track!

That was a superb track.

I go with

1. Monte Carlo (till 2002)
2. Monza (combined circuit pre-1960)
3. Indianapolis (classic, not GP circuit)
4. Spa (bus stop chicane)
5. Suzuka (till 2002)
6. Paul Ricard (1980)
7. Brands Hatch (1980)
8. Österreichring (till 1987)
9. Silverstone (Bridge and Abbey)
10. Laguna Seca
11. Hockenheimring (till 1997)
12. Mount Panorama
13. Montréal Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
14. Interlagos (till 1989)
15. Le Mans (till 1990)

Ah, the joy of it!!!

Thanks for the thread, makes one dream....

[Kop Alonso]

I prefer Monaco with the quick chicane after the tunnel last used in 84

[Frank Tuesday]

Spa
Zandvoort
Osterreichring
Charade
Rouen
Nordschleife
Suzuka
Bathurst
Watkins Glen
Mosport
Road America
Silverstone
Interlagos
Potrero de los Funes
Monza

[GSiebert]

This thread really proves that nobody loves the new tracks or the current layouts of the old tracks.
They are all too similar, similar turns, average speeds, elevation changes, run offs, landscapes ... They have just nothing special.
Best example is the old Hockenheim, the layout itself was very simple (some drivers would say boring) but the track was special.

Edited by GSiebert, 29 August 2012 - 14:59.

[swerved]

Best track for a 4-wheeler?

Piccolo Madonie, Targa Florio 1932-77. All 72.1 km of it.



Even the Nordschleife is quite bleak compared to this one.

Of which Graham Hill said, "It's good to come here once a year, otherwise you might think you're a lot better than you are"

A very good docu here.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

[sesku]

This thread really proves that nobody loves the new tracks or the current layouts of the old tracks.
They are all too similar, similar turns, average speeds, elevation changes, run offs, landscapes ... They have just nothing special.
Best example is the old Hockenheim, the layout itself was very simple (some drivers would say boring) but the track was special.

Yeongam korea
Buddh india
Bahrain
Shanghai
Barcelona
Abu Dhabi
Turkey
Indianapolis road course
Singapore
Hockenheimring (2002)
Sepang
Las Vegas 1982
Magny Cours
Hungaroring
Phoenix
Detroit
Dallas

Just Kidding, my greatest racing track.

Nordschleife
Targa Florio
Mont tremblant
Old 1960s Spa
Monaco
Monza
Suzuka
Adelaide
AVUS
Zaandvort
De La Sarthe
Laguna Seca
Monjuich
Rouen
Mosport

[aditya-now]

Yeongam korea
Buddh india
Bahrain
Shanghai
Barcelona
Abu Dhabi
Indianapolis road course
Hockenheimring (2002)
Sepang
Las Vegas 1982
Magny Cours
Hungaroring
Phoenix
Detroit
Dallas

Exquisite collection, I have to say!

[jeze]

I think Buddh and Istanbul are excellent racetracks.

But top 15 in an all-time list? Nah don't think so.

[pizzalover]

I'd put Suzuka above Spa. Why is it drivers love these two more than any of the others? High speed corners?

[Jimisgod]

Best track for a 4-wheeler?

Piccolo Madonie, Targa Florio 1932-77. All 72.1 km of it.



Even the Nordschleife is quite bleak compared to this one.

I'll pay that!

[Frank Tuesday]

I'm really surprised that Monaco is showing up on these lists at all. Ignore its history: If someone proposed the first running of the Monaco GP in 2013, it would compared unfavorably to any other track on the schedule. Because of its history, it deserves a permanent place on the schedule, but it really is a crap circuit for racing.

Edited by Frank Tuesday, 29 August 2012 - 19:37.

[jeze]

I'm really surprised that Monaco is showing up on these lists at all. Ignore its history: If someone proposed the first running of the Monaco GP in 2013, it would compared unfavorably to any other track on the schedule. Because of its history, it deserves a permanent place on the schedule, but it really is a crap circuit for racing.

It is a really enjoyable track to run at in Grand Prix 4 at least. A great challenge, especially with the downforce of the modern cars that means you hit Tabac in 95 mph for example. It's so easy to make a mistake and a clean race around that place must feel rewarding for anyone.

[Jimisgod]

I'm really surprised that Monaco is showing up on these lists at all. Ignore its history: If someone proposed the first running of the Monaco GP in 2013, it would compared unfavorably to any other track on the schedule. Because of its history, it deserves a permanent place on the schedule, but it really is a crap circuit for racing.

It's terrible for wheel-to-wheel racing, but the best place bar none for single car qualifying like runs. Monaco is probably the model most modern street circuits try to follow, with slower speed corners than the fast-flowing open road circuits of old, yet Monaco always tended to have corners that are unique and undulation that is difficult to match. Historically, it is one of only four tracks in F1 today that were run in the first season 1950. Silverstone, Spa and Monza all had significant changes - Spa was shortened, Monza had chicanes added that truly changed the character, and Silverstone was redeveloped recently.

[JacnGille]

The original Road Atlanta layout was better the current config. (IMO)

[GSiebert]

I'm really surprised that Monaco is showing up on these lists at all. Ignore its history: If someone proposed the first running of the Monaco GP in 2013, it would compared unfavorably to any other track on the schedule. Because of its history, it deserves a permanent place on the schedule, but it really is a crap circuit for racing.

Yes its very outdated for the current cars, but that makes it special. But of course you wouldn't want 20 Monaco races in a season.
History can be a good thing, that's why Spa is still in the calendar, because such a track wouldn't be possible today, Eau Rouge is just too steep for the current FIA homologation rules.

[thiscocks]

Old Masaryk track in czech ftw

[Frank Tuesday]

Yes its very outdated for the current cars, but that makes it special. But of course you wouldn't want 20 Monaco races in a season.
History can be a good thing, that's why Spa is still in the calendar, because such a track wouldn't be possible today, Eau Rouge is just too steep for the current FIA homologation rules.

The difference is that is we had never held a race at Spa, and this weekend was going to be the first F1 race there, we would all be fawning over how incredible this new track is. And with Monaco, we'd be saying that it is even worse than Hungaroring and Valencia. I'm not talking about its history, or its importance. I'm just saying it is a s**t track for racing.

For the record, I think that Monaco should have a permanent place on the F1 calendar. I think that Monaco, Silverstone, Monza and Spa should be written into the Concorde as permanent tracks in F1. No season should go by without all four of those tracks.

[SenhorBeef]

Limiting this to circuits that I've either explored in real life or on rfactor/GPL etc. Hence the lack of Targa Florio / Pescara etc.

Rouen Les Essarts (56-70 config)
Charade (Original)
Montjuïc
Bremgarten
Österreichring
Spa (Modern)
Spa (Original)
Interlagos (Original)
Zandvoort (Original)
Oulton Park
Nordschleife
Bathurst
Kyalami (before it was ruined)
Suzuka
Silverstone (any config between 52-90)

[BigCHrome]

I'm really surprised that Monaco is showing up on these lists at all. Ignore its history: If someone proposed the first running of the Monaco GP in 2013, it would compared unfavorably to any other track on the schedule. Because of its history, it deserves a permanent place on the schedule, but it really is a crap circuit for racing.

It's a big challenge to the drivers and it's fun for the viewers to watch the cars at those relatively low stops and so to be so close to the track.

[Spaceframe]

Like most, I prefere the "natural" circuits created on public roads - those off cambers turns, downhill/across a stream/uphill esses (like Eau Rouge), blind corners, changes in elevation and so on sparkles my imagination in a manner those modern dronedromes never will.

My list (in no particular order other than the one in which they appeared from the foggy corners of my memory):

Rouen
Nürburgring Nordschleife
The original 14+ km Spa
Brands Hatch
Pescara
Österreichring
Brno
Targa Florio
Clermont-Ferrand, all eight km of it
Zandvoort (great viewing, great racing with overtaking possible but never easy)
Watkins Glen
Rheims (epic slipstreamers on occasions, and always that feeling of history and grandeur)
Monza (like Rheims but with the added spectacle of the tifosi)
Pau
Montjuich - did F1 cars ever look better than there? And has there ever been anything like the spot before the hairpin where cars took off at a speed of some 240 km/h, negotiating a slight left and preparing for braking while doing it?)

Honourable mentioning:
Roskilde Ring (a natural amphitheatre giving a better view for spectators than even Brands Hatch)
Suzuka (would've made the list on another day)
Bathurst/Mount Panorama (I'm not sure whether F1 and the mountain part would've suited each other, hence not on the list)
The Tasmanian circuit I can't remember the name of - it had two bridges and used to be the final race of the Tasman Series
Adelaide (the best overseas street circuit ever used for a WC F1 GP - granted, no Linden Avenue drop, but very few 90 degree corners either)

[DampMongoose]

I'd go with Tony Brooks opinion that proper Motor racing is road racing so I would choose, the 'proper' Spa, Pescara, Rouen, and the Targa Florio. If I think about purpose built circuits, Brands Hatch, Osterreichring, Monza and The original Zandvoort would stick out as the better circuits.

Oh and a quick edit to include Mosport.

Edited by DampMongoose, 10 September 2012 - 12:08.

[Spaceframe]

The Tasmanian circuit I can't remember the name of - it had two bridges and used to be the final race of the Tasman Series

Longford!

[noikeee]

Quick list, am certain I'm missing some

Nordschleiffe
old Interlagos
Macau
modern Spa
Bathurst
Suzuka
old Kyalami
Brands Hatch
modern Zandvoort
Mosport
Road Atlanta
Tarumã
Knockhill
Oulton Park
Dijon

[Wolf]

Nobody mentioned this one???