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Is/was Kimi really THAT good at Spa? A closer look into this hype/possible myth


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#1 BetaVersion

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:19

Now something that will probably troll the forum as Kimi have lot's of fans here but it's not my fault if people won't be able to discuss it maturely.

I never thought he was exactly as good at Spa as the hype surrounding it suggests.

In 2008, he was outqualified by more than 2 tenths, by Felipe, and was even lighter one lap than his slow brazilian team mate. Then he showed a very good race pace but failed when the drizzle started and Lewis dealt much better with the humid conditions, regarding pure speed.

In 2007, Kimi was again 1 lap lighter on Q3 and was only 0,017s faster than Massa. He won the race with the best car and Felipe finished less than 5s behind him.

In 2005, Mclaren was a rocket and Jean Piérre outqualified Kimi by half tenth. I don't know who was lighter as everybody stopped at lap 11. In the race, Jean Piérre would never be allowed to win as he as out of the WDC fight and even had that stupid backmarker colliding with him.

In 2004, Coulthard outqualified Kimi, in the rain, by 1,6s. Kimi eventually won the race but Mclaren had a great engine, which is key at Spa, and the car was already much improved from it's early poor form.

In 2002, Kimi had a great qualifying, being 6 tenths faster than Coulthard. But if you look into the Ferrari boys, Schumacher also outqualified Rubens by the same 6 tenths and I think it's pretty much agreed that Barrichello was a better driver than David. So, despite being a good qualifying performance, it wasn't, arguably, the best.

In 2001, it was a good performance as he outqualified Kwik Nick by 2,5 tenths but both retired on the race


2009 was a complete farce to me. Kimi did his job and maximazied all he could but, let's be honest here, he cheated using the off track, at La Source, to gain lot's of positions at the start. Then, KERS saved his butt for the whole race.


There is no denial, Kimi is a Spa specialist and a great driver there. Surely among the bests ever.

But, is he the Spa's ultimate king/master?

Imho, no.

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#2 BigCHrome

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:23

Totally agree.

#3 scheivlak

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:25

In 2002, Kimi had a great qualifying, being 6 tenths faster than Coulthard. But if you look into the Ferrari boys, Schumacher also outqualified Rubens by the same 6 tenths and I think it's pretty much agreed that Barrichello was a better driver than David. So, despite being a good qualifying performance, it wasn't, arguably, the best.

If somebody has to use that kind of logic....

:wave:

#4 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:26

Totally agree.


if you don't believe it well ask it at Jacky Eeckelaert or Martin Brundle, it's known within the paddock that Kimi has an edge on overyone in spa! there's nothing to discuss at all

#5 MP422

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:29

Now something that will probably troll the forum as Kimi have lot's of fans here but it's not my fault if people won't be able to discuss it maturely.

I never thought he was exactly as good at Spa as the hype surrounding it suggests.

In 2008, he was outqualified by more than 2 tenths, by Felipe, and was even lighter one lap than his slow brazilian team mate. Then he showed a very good race pace but failed when the drizzle started and Lewis dealt much better with the humid conditions, regarding pure speed.

In 2007, Kimi was again 1 lap lighter on Q3 and was only 0,017s faster than Massa. He won the race with the best car and Felipe finished less than 5s behind him.

In 2005, Mclaren was a rocket and Jean Piérre outqualified Kimi by half tenth. I don't know who was lighter as everybody stopped at lap 11. In the race, Jean Piérre would never be allowed to win as he as out of the WDC fight and even had that stupid backmarker colliding with him.

In 2004, Coulthard outqualified Kimi, in the rain, by 1,6s. Kimi eventually won the race but Mclaren had a great engine, which is key at Spa, and the car was already much improved from it's early poor form.

In 2002, Kimi had a great qualifying, being 6 tenths faster than Coulthard. But if you look into the Ferrari boys, Schumacher also outqualified Rubens by the same 6 tenths and I think it's pretty much agreed that Barrichello was a better driver than David. So, despite being a good qualifying performance, it wasn't, arguably, the best.

In 2001, it was a good performance as he outqualified Kwik Nick by 2,5 tenths but both retired on the race


2009 was a complete farce to me. Kimi did his job and maximazied all he could but, let's be honest here, he cheated using the off track, at La Source, to gain lot's of positions at the start. Then, KERS saved his butt for the whole race.


There is no denial, Kimi is a Spa specialist and a great driver there. Surely among the bests ever.

But, is he the Spa's ultimate king/master?

Imho, no.


Yes he is the spa master 4/5 in the last 5 he participated in and 2008 was oh so close to going his way. You just start watching f1 and look up Kimi's history or something or you just pulled those time gaps off the top of your head ? i saw all mentioned races and Kimi is mighty on this circuit.


#6 Trust

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:34

And according to you, who is the "SPA master' if not Kimi?

Kimi has the best start/win ratio there. If he isn't that good, what does that make to other drivers? They're shit or so?


This is just a troll thread.

#7 abc

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:38

Jean Piérre ?

#8 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:48

Jean Piérre ?


I think he dont know that JP stand for juan pablo instead of jean pierre

#9 Risil

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:50

Well, whatever. Raikkonen's Spa record is astonishing. I don't think he'd have won in 2006, nor maybe in late 2003 though, so I think he's had his share of luck in assembling those statistics.

If by the end of the career he had a record at the Belgian GP to match Senna's and Hill's at Monaco, that would be something to talk about.

#10 handel

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:54

For what it's worth I don't think Kimi is a Spa specialist. In this day and age I don't think the terms actually makes much sense - you're far more likely to look like an expert somewhere because you love X type of corners rather then a specific corner.

But anyway, good luck to him. If he's a Spa specialist then he'll have to have some seriously bad luck not to win there again?

#11 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:56

Well, whatever. Raikkonen's Spa record is astonishing. I don't think he'd have won in 2006, nor maybe in late 2003 though, so I think he's had his share of luck in assembling those statistics.

If by the end of the career he had a record at the Belgian GP to match Senna's and Hill's at Monaco, that would be something to talk about.


there was no race in 2006

#12 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:58

For what it's worth I don't think Kimi is a Spa specialist. In this day and age I don't think the terms actually makes much sense - you're far more likely to look like an expert somewhere because you love X type of corners rather then a specific corner.

But anyway, good luck to him. If he's a Spa specialist then he'll have to have some seriously bad luck not to win there again?


oh god...

if he isn't a spa specialist well tell me one who is?

#13 race addicted

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 18:59

It's clear many here weren't following F1 ten years ago, but have only checked results on wikipedia or wherever.
In 2002, qualifying Räikkönen vs DC was decided by tires - DC took the harder compound, with the race in mind, and that tyre was indeed said to be five-six tenths slower over a qualifying-lap.

And saying Barrichello was better than DC.... please! DC beat Barrichello while in inferior machinery faaaar too many times, for Barrichello to be considered better! Happened several times in '02 for instance.

#14 MP422

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:02

For what it's worth I don't think Kimi is a Spa specialist. In this day and age I don't think the terms actually makes much sense - you're far more likely to look like an expert somewhere because you love X type of corners rather then a specific corner.

But anyway, good luck to him. If he's a Spa specialist then he'll have to have some seriously bad luck not to win there again?



I'm a Lewis fan want him to win it sunday, and i'll tell you this... a sensible debate where you doubt a champion's achievement in winning 4/5 attempts with two different teams is not sensible. You just refute facts and called people fanboys who disagree.

#15 MP422

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:03

there was no race in 2006


nor in 2003

#16 Starish

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:05

The same debunking can be said for half of the other drivers repeat wins, however you look at it this is a waste of time, someone will always bring a variable to say the driver gained an advantage...for me a win is a win once its not outright cheating, the grey area will never disappear and someone's car will always be better than another's.

#17 Menace

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:06

Now something that will probably troll the forum


Well at least you're honest! :lol:

#18 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:06

I'm a Lewis fan want him to win it sunday, and i'll tell you this... a sensible debate where you doubt a champion's achievement in winning 4/5 attempts with two different teams is not sensible. You just refute facts and called people fanboys who disagree.


:up:

#19 Menace

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:07

It's clear many here weren't following F1 ten years ago, but have only checked results on wikipedia or wherever.
In 2002, qualifying Räikkönen vs DC was decided by tires - DC took the harder compound, with the race in mind, and that tyre was indeed said to be five-six tenths slower over a qualifying-lap.

And saying Barrichello was better than DC.... please! DC beat Barrichello while in inferior machinery faaaar too many times, for Barrichello to be considered better! Happened several times in '02 for instance.


I think it was close between Barrichello and DC, but DC had a slight edge when all was said and done.

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#20 Menace

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:08

I'm a Lewis fan want him to win it sunday, and i'll tell you this... a sensible debate where you doubt a champion's achievement in winning 4/5 attempts with two different teams is not sensible. You just refute facts and called people fanboys who disagree.


:) :up:

#21 fullthrottle

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:11

:yawnface:

#22 BetaVersion

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:14

if you don't believe it well ask it at Jacky Eeckelaert or Martin Brundle, it's known within the paddock that Kimi has an edge on overyone in spa! there's nothing to discuss at all


then, for some incredible sequence of events, he was circunstancially(?) beaten, in qualifying(pure speed), 4 out of 7 times(fuel corrected)

And according to you, who is the "SPA master' if not Kimi?

Kimi has the best start/win ratio there. If he isn't that good, what does that make to other drivers? They're shit or so?


This is just a troll thread.



as I said on the opening post, it isn't a troll thread, and also as I said, I knew some fanboys would instantly starts with such attitude. It's a pitty some people can't maturely discuss things.

I don't know who is master of Spa, but a guy who was beaten, in qualifyings, more time than he beaten his team mates, surely can't be proclaimned king of it. He have always been very good, at Spa, regarding race pace. But that's isn't everything. If Kimi be outqualified by Grosjean this time, it might take away his so hyped chance of winning it.

I think he dont know that JP stand for juan pablo instead of jean pierre


You didn't get the joke. Some years ago, when JPM was still in F1, a chauvinist french media reffered to him as that. :lol:

It's clear many here weren't following F1 ten years ago, but have only checked results on wikipedia or wherever.
In 2002, qualifying Räikkönen vs DC was decided by tires - DC took the harder compound, with the race in mind, and that tyre was indeed said to be five-six tenths slower over a qualifying-lap.

You have just made Kimi look even less good there. :confused:

PS: To everybody, forget about my Ferrari guys comparison as it would bring a big off topic debate.

Edited by BetaVersion, 26 August 2012 - 19:25.


#23 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:26

then, for some incredible sequence of events, he was circunstancially(?) beaten, in qualifying(pure speed), 4 out of 7 times(fuel corrected)



as I said on the opening post, it isn't a troll thread, and also as I said, I knew some fanboys would instantly starts with such attitude. It's a pitty some people can't maturely discuss things.

I don't know who is master of Spa, but a guy who was beaten, in qualifyings, more time than he beaten his team mates, surely can't be proclaimned king of it. He have always been very good, at Spa, regarding race pace. But that's isn't everything. If Kimi be outqualified by Grosjean this time, it might take away his so hyped chance of winning it.



You didn't get the joke. Some years ago, when JPM was still in F1, a chauvinist french media reffered to him as that. :lol:


Well quali isn't kimi best thing and it isn't the place where you need to be 1ste, it's at sunday and the race :wave:

it's racing which makes you the king of spa not the quali... :rotfl:

#24 Jovanotti

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:31

then, for some incredible sequence of events, he was circunstancially(?) beaten, in qualifying(pure speed), 4 out of 7 times(fuel corrected)



as I said on the opening post, it isn't a troll thread, and also as I said, I knew some fanboys would instantly starts with such attitude.

I don't know who is master of Spa, but a guy who was beaten, in qualifyings, more time than he beaten his team mates, surely can't be proclaimned king of it.

If you haven't recognised it - especially this season: Räikkönen's magic definitely shows more in race than in qualy performance, Spa not being an exception there. One might say he can't be a standout driver when he was outqualified more often than not, but on the other hand it really can't be ignored that he has such unambiguous stats and never has been really matched by any team mate in the race - which ultimately is where points are awarded.


#25 DonaldDuck

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:34

Now something that will probably troll the forum as Kimi have lot's of fans here but it's not my fault if people won't be able to discuss it maturely.

I never thought he was exactly as good at Spa as the hype surrounding it suggests.

In 2008, he was outqualified by more than 2 tenths, by Felipe, and was even lighter one lap than his slow brazilian team mate. Then he showed a very good race pace but failed when the drizzle started and Lewis dealt much better with the humid conditions, regarding pure speed.

In 2007, Kimi was again 1 lap lighter on Q3 and was only 0,017s faster than Massa. He won the race with the best car and Felipe finished less than 5s behind him.

In 2005, Mclaren was a rocket and Jean Piérre outqualified Kimi by half tenth. I don't know who was lighter as everybody stopped at lap 11. In the race, Jean Piérre would never be allowed to win as he as out of the WDC fight and even had that stupid backmarker colliding with him.

In 2004, Coulthard outqualified Kimi, in the rain, by 1,6s. Kimi eventually won the race but Mclaren had a great engine, which is key at Spa, and the car was already much improved from it's early poor form.

In 2002, Kimi had a great qualifying, being 6 tenths faster than Coulthard. But if you look into the Ferrari boys, Schumacher also outqualified Rubens by the same 6 tenths and I think it's pretty much agreed that Barrichello was a better driver than David. So, despite being a good qualifying performance, it wasn't, arguably, the best.

In 2001, it was a good performance as he outqualified Kwik Nick by 2,5 tenths but both retired on the race


2009 was a complete farce to me. Kimi did his job and maximazied all he could but, let's be honest here, he cheated using the off track, at La Source, to gain lot's of positions at the start. Then, KERS saved his butt for the whole race.


There is no denial, Kimi is a Spa specialist and a great driver there. Surely among the bests ever.

But, is he the Spa's ultimate king/master?

Imho, no.


I would like to know who is your favourite driver so that I can provide you with in depth facts, just on the basis of what you wrote in order to temple your skin for a light hearted debate. I wish I had the patience to reply to each and every statement in person, but most of the work has already been done, I am just an addenda. Its fun to trip on drivers, but not too an extent where we mistake fact for fiction or otherwise

#26 Cool Beans

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:34

:yawnface:

#27 scheivlak

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:37

I don't know who is master of Spa, but a guy who was beaten, in qualifyings, more time than he beaten his team mates, surely can't be proclaimned king of it. .

It looks like counting is not your strongest point  ;)
Apart from that, both in 2004 and 2005 we had single lap qualifying.
In 2004 it rained heavier during Kimi's Q lap than during DC's. So that wasn't comparable at all.
In 2005 there were a few spots of rain as well while JPM's Q was according to his own words completely dry.

#28 KavB

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:46

If he had just two or three wins, and didn't fight for victory any other time then I'd agree with you. But the guy has won 4 times, and very nearly made it 5 times in a row. You can't accomplish that unless you are brilliant at the track. It's one of the reasons I can't fathom Piquet being called a lucky champion. One or two times can be lucky, three or more means you are truly great.

#29 Trust

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:51

as I said on the opening post, it isn't a troll thread, and also as I said, I knew some fanboys would instantly starts with such attitude. It's a pitty some people can't maturely discuss things.

I don't know who is master of Spa, but a guy who was beaten, in qualifyings, more time than he beaten his team mates, surely can't be proclaimned king of it. He have always been very good, at Spa, regarding race pace. But that's isn't everything. If Kimi be outqualified by Grosjean this time, it might take away his so hyped chance of winning it.

Why? Who gives a shit for qualifying? Why did those drivers who qualified better didn't win later?

As for 2008, Kimi had cold tyres and made very big mistake in S2 so Massa qualified in front, but you just have to see first lap and see who is better.

I don't give a shit for qualifying. We're counting wins here. If Kimi isn't KING of SPA, then all other drivers are shit there based on that criteria.

#30 Sammyosammy

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:54

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#31 jj2728

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 19:58

Well let's see.... Räikkönen won the race 4 times between 2004 and 2009. I believe the points are awarded after the race and not qualifying so any qualifying issues are a mute point. On the other hand Schumacher, whom I believe is still active, has won the race 6 times. Senna won it 5 times including 4 on the trot from 1988 through 1991 and Jim Clark won the race 4 times consecutively from 1962 through 1965. I would consider all 4 drivers to be Spa masters and so to answer your question, yes I believe that Kimi is that good at Spa.

#32 beute

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:08

All I see is
"Kimi won, but"
"kimi outqualified, but"

you can do that for most victories by any driver...

not to mention your excuse for his 2004 win and how you tried to "discredit" him for that victory....
he had a good engine and the car was better than in the early season... really?!

for the 2008 race you mention him being outqualified by massa but totally ignore the fact that he was in front of him by like 30 seconds in the race, in a season that is considered his worst ever...

as for 2009, it was explicitly mentioned in the drivers meeting that using the off track section was allowed and even encouraged if it helps avoiding crashes/clump ups.
even one of the worst F1 commentators ever knew this and mentioned it the second his co-commentator asked if it was legal.(the RTL guys)


You mention it's impossible to have a discussion about Raikkonen because of his fanbase being not mature enough to do so, yet your post looked exactly as bad as those of the apologetics you're referring to, you're just on the other side of the fence.

No one really thinks he is magically 1 second faster on that track, he is just on top of his game there and everything seems to go his way in spa.
Like Raikkonen said, his previous wins dont say anything about this years race.
In order to win everything must work out perfectly, just like on every other track... it just happens that Spa is one of the tracks where it happened more often for him.

Edited by Buttoneer, 28 August 2012 - 10:41.


#33 pingu666

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:11

itll be performance and results

id say kimi performs better at spa vs his "normal" performance


#34 1Devil1

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:19

BetaVision you did everything to prevent a sensible debate in Kimiland. Because I really think it is debatable to call Kimi the undisputed champion of SPA. In my books he only won one time against Schumacher at SPA when he was cruising towards his seventh championship. Often we hear he destroyed Michael in his super fast Ferrari. What people forget Ferrari needed a second place to secure the driver championship. Does anybody really think Michael cared about the win having the chance to be champion this year? Kimi record is fabulous an his race 2009 was a class act but in my books he need two or three wins more to be higher than Schumacher or Senna.

Edited by 1Devil1, 26 August 2012 - 20:21.


#35 Vesuvius

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:24

Kimi is that good in spa, without the rain in the final two-three laps of 2008 he would have won 5 times in a row. You made some really stupid claims that his 2009 win was not deserved and he cheated, which not true...he got no advantage going wide, he actually loses position because of that (confirmed by Coulthard) and it was allowed to use wide line on first corner..also saying KERS is the reason he won is crap, others could have had it in the car as well but they choose not to because on those regulations the advantage was null.

Also your quali claims are pointless, 2005 kimi was fuelled higher than Montoya and in race owned him with pace and tactic.2004 DC got much better conditions than Kimi and that's why he qualified in front of him,.2007 kimi destroyed others with his first q3 lap by several tenths, on his second attempt he told the team in radio that the rear of the car felt strange and very lose and there might be some problem on the car...team said he could pit if he wanted to but he decided to make the lap, he wasn't improving but in the end nailed the last sector and improved just enough to keep pole, in a race he dominated despitate only 5 second gap, he said he didn't need to push on final stint at all to keep Felipe behind.2008 kimi messed his quali lap but in race he owned felipe and others with stunning overtakes and pace...sadly the rain spoiled his great result.

#36 Vesuvius

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:26

BetaVision you did everything to prevent a sensible debate in Kimiland. Because I really think it is debatable to call Kimi the undisputed champion of SPA. In my books he only won one time against Schumacher at SPA when he was cruising towards his seventh championship. Often we hear he destroyed Michael in his super fast Ferrari. What people forget Ferrari needed a second place to secure the driver championship. Does anybody really think Michael cared about the win having the chance to be champion this year? Kimi record is fabulous an his race 2009 was a class act but in my books he need two or three wins more to be higher than Schumacher or Senna.


Michael did care, he wanted to win the race but wasn't able to, kimi beated him and even overtooked on track...you also forgot Kimi beated Schumi 2005 :)

#37 Raziel

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:31

Posted Image

:| :well:

#38 1Devil1

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:33

Michael did care, he wanted to win the race but wasn't able to, kimi beated him and even overtooked on track...you also forgot Kimi beated Schumi 2005 :)


Fact is Michael didn't needed a win and when he is talking about spa 2004 he speaks proudly about his championship. I just wanted to comment the argument you often read when kimi fans are talking about the big win against Schumacher. That is one think you have to keep in mind I believe talking about 2004

2005? The ferrari was not good enough or did I mention 2001 and 2002 in favor for Schumacher ;)

#39 beute

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:35

BetaVision you did everything to prevent a sensible debate in Kimiland. Because I really think it is debatable to call Kimi the undisputed champion of SPA. In my books he only won one time against Schumacher at SPA when he was cruising towards his seventh championship. Often we hear he destroyed Michael in his super fast Ferrari. What people forget Ferrari needed a second place to secure the driver championship. Does anybody really think Michael cared about the win having the chance to be champion this year? Kimi record is fabulous an his race 2009 was a class act but in my books he need two or three wins more to be higher than Schumacher or Senna.

yes, yes of course he cared about winning.
you dont think Schumacher wanted to seal the championship with a Victory on his favorite track, instead of doing it by finishing 2nd?

It's not like he was in any danger to lose the championship that year... Barichello was the only driver with a mathematical chance...
I mean before the Belgium GP schumacher had 120 points already, even if schumacher would have DNF'ed from spa and every other race after that, he would still be champion, and that with barichello scoring 2 victories and 1 third place.

So yes, yes I think schumacher would've gone for victory if he could have.
Championship wasnt in any danger AT ALL.


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#40 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:37

Fact is Michael didn't needed a win and when he is talking about spa 2004 he speaks proudly about his championship. I just wanted to comment the argument you often read when kimi fans are talking about the big win against Schumacher. That is one think you have to keep in mind I believe talking about 2004

2005? The ferrari was not good enough or did I mention 2001 and 2002 in favor for Schumacher ;)



oi oi oi... schummie is great mate but kimi is as great...schumi raced there from 1991 kimi from 2001

#41 undersquare

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:37

One thing I do always see, and don't understand how he does it, is Kimi going through Eau Rouge and emerging onto Kemmel faster than anyone else.

#42 scheivlak

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:43

BetaVision you did everything to prevent a sensible debate in Kimiland. Because I really think it is debatable to call Kimi the undisputed champion of SPA. In my books he only won one time against Schumacher at SPA when he was cruising towards his seventh championship. Often we hear he destroyed Michael in his super fast Ferrari. What people forget Ferrari needed a second place to secure the driver championship. Does anybody really think Michael cared about the win having the chance to be champion this year? Kimi record is fabulous an his race 2009 was a class act but in my books he need two or three wins more to be higher than Schumacher or Senna.

To be more exact: The WDC was already between Schumi and Barrichello (and Ferrari were already certain of the WCC). Schumacher just had to get 2 points more than Rubens, wherever he might finish. I don't think this occupied Michael's mind very much if only because Rubens had to pit already with some damage after lap 1 (he was very lucky to finish third from there).
I find this 'King of Spa' thing a bit over the top (remember Jim Clark!) but I rate his general Spa performance at least as high as Schumacher's (who scored some brilliant wins) and slightly higher than Senna's.

#43 motorhead

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:45

I think he dont know that JP stand for juan pablo instead of jean pierre


Jean Pierre the mystical F1 driver...medication forgotten :stoned:

#44 byronbolscher

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:48

Fact is Michael didn't needed a win and when he is talking about spa 2004 he speaks proudly about his championship. I just wanted to comment the argument you often read when kimi fans are talking about the big win against Schumacher. That is one think you have to keep in mind I believe talking about 2004

2005? The ferrari was not good enough or did I mention 2001 and 2002 in favor for Schumacher ;)


I don't think in that 2004 race Michael had the speed to defeat Kimi, part of this was the tyres on that Ferrari, after each restart the Bridgestones took a while to get onto temperature, that's why Montoya was able to overtake Michael in the busstop in the way that he did.

#45 JensonWDC

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:49

what´s the fuss about Spa?
It´s nothing special nowadays with these cars, most of the track is flat out and it´s pretty much only the mid sector which makes the difference.
It died as a "drivers" circuit at the the end of the ´90, beginning of the ´00, maybe even earlier.
It´s a different matter if the rain comes in of course.

Edited by JensonWDC, 26 August 2012 - 20:53.


#46 scheivlak

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:55

what´s the fuss about Spa?
It´s nothing special nowadays with these cars, most of the track is flat out and it´s pretty much only the mid sector which makes the difference.
It died as a "drivers" circuit at the the end of the ´90, beginning of the ´00.

Well if there's only one sector that makes the difference it would make a continuing streak of winning performances more remarkable in some way ;)

#47 rijole1

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:58

I'm a Lewis fan want him to win it sunday, and i'll tell you this... a sensible debate where you doubt a champion's achievement in winning 4/5 attempts with two different teams is not sensible. You just refute facts and called people fanboys who disagree.


:up:


#48 1Devil1

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 20:58

what´s the fuss about Spa?
It´s nothing special nowadays with these cars, most of the track is flat out and it´s pretty much only the mid sector which makes the difference.
It died as a "drivers" circuit at the the end of the ´90, beginning of the ´00.


If so Kimi's wins were all down to his cars? Can't agree here. Spa is one of the last tracks on which drivers can make a different. Maybe less than in the past

#49 JensonWDC

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 21:02

Well if there's only one sector that makes the difference it would make a continuing streak of winning performances more remarkable in some way ;)



as for any other circuit. nobody cares who´s the king of Budapest for example (seems like it´s Lewis btw) and it looks a lot more demanding to me there.

#50 spinster

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 21:03

what´s the fuss about Spa?
It´s nothing special nowadays with these cars, most of the track is flat out and it´s pretty much only the mid sector which makes the difference.
It died as a "drivers" circuit at the the end of the ´90, beginning of the ´00, maybe even earlier.
It´s a different matter if the rain comes in of course.


Well I might drive around there with you, tell me after that how you feel and tell me it's nothing special.. I bet you never been there or drive around :wave: