Jump to content


Photo

USA Grand Prix 2012 - part 2


  • Please log in to reply
865 replies to this topic

#1 Victor_RO

Victor_RO
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,863 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 27 August 2012 - 17:12

http://forums.autosp...w...&start=4000

Old topic closed for technical reasons. Please continue here.

Advertisement

#2 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 14:03

COTA construction 8-12-12. I see Bernie's building is coming along nicely behind the pit building:

https://www.facebook...5...9693&type=1

Posted Image


It's interesting to see the big differences in Main GS design compared to older renderings.


Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2012 - 14:52.


#3 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 28 August 2012 - 14:26

Track layout looks very good. Can't wait for US GP

#4 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,819 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 15:18

^^
Using the vehicles as a reference point, the building that holds the garages is huge.

#5 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 16:18

Posted Image

Edited by AustinF1, 28 August 2012 - 16:20.


#6 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,202 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 28 August 2012 - 21:48

Posted Image



Beautiful circuit, I have to say. Hopefully it becomes a mainstay!

Love the onboard lap posted on James Allen's site: http://www.jamesalle...t-austin-texas/

#7 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,256 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 28 August 2012 - 22:03

The picture above reminds me of Suzuka for some reason. Dunno why.

#8 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 22:18

COTA track update. There are 20+ pics. Here are a few:

http://circuitofthea...ogress-progress

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#9 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 28 August 2012 - 22:24

Looks really great. So what's estimated cost of this circuit?

#10 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 22:31

The picture above reminds me of Suzuka for some reason. Dunno why.

Those esses resemble Suzuka more than Silverstone, imho...but either is close.

#11 FerrariFanInTexas

FerrariFanInTexas
  • Member

  • 1,143 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 28 August 2012 - 22:40

Those esses resemble Suzuka more than Silverstone, imho...but either is close.


I've always thought so as well, but all the "official" literature says it resembles Silverstone. :well:

#12 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,022 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 28 August 2012 - 23:01

I made an offhand comment in this thread earlier for the purpose of marking this thread as one I'd responded in, but it got deleted.

So, here's a real comment: I was going to go, but now I'm not. Now I hope the whole enterprise crashes, burns, gets urinated on, defecated on, and buried.

#13 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,819 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 23:17

I made an offhand comment in this thread earlier for the purpose of marking this thread as one I'd responded in, but it got deleted.

So, here's a real comment: I was going to go, but now I'm not. Now I hope the whole enterprise crashes, burns, gets urinated on, defecated on, and buried.

I was going to go but there was so many negative comments about it from the Austin crowd I made alternate vacation plans this year. It looks like I made a big mistake.

OLB - What is your beef with the track?

Edited by Watkins74, 28 August 2012 - 23:17.


#14 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 28 August 2012 - 23:43

I was going to go but there was so many negative comments about it from the Austin crowd I made alternate vacation plans this year. It looks like I made a big mistake.

OLB - What is your beef with the track?

I took it that he was kidding...and didn't have a beef with the track so much as, um, other issues. I could be wrong.

BTW, re: your other comment, WeWillSee. Maybe. Maybe not.

Edited by AustinF1, 29 August 2012 - 11:44.


#15 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,826 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 29 August 2012 - 00:13

I think the race will happen and the track will be pretty good, but there are still huge problems with the spectator side. Costs, transport, hotels, etc. There's like a 2% chance I might be going in a working capacity but the logistical issues are putting me off.

#16 RedOne

RedOne
  • Member

  • 1,688 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 29 August 2012 - 00:16

Gotta feeling this circuit is going to be a beast!

#17 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 01:14

I think the race will happen and the track will be pretty good, but there are still huge problems with the spectator side. Costs, transport, hotels, etc. There's like a 2% chance I might be going in a working capacity but the logistical issues are putting me off.


Gotta feeling this circuit is going to be a beast!


Circuit's gonna be fantastic.

Edited by AustinF1, 29 August 2012 - 02:14.


#18 pingu666

pingu666
  • Member

  • 8,880 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:07

that suzuka ish shot is because it looked alot like the casio? chicane at the end of the lap :)

#19 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,022 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 29 August 2012 - 02:25

Track looks great. It's the outfit that's running the track that I hate. As other people said, logistics, pricing, that kind of stuff.

I'm quite sure the event will take place and I'll swallow my hate and enjoy watching the race.

In the ideal situation the current management go tits up and some competent group takes over. The track itself remains the same.


Advertisement

#20 Madera

Madera
  • Member

  • 372 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 03:45

I made an offhand comment in this thread earlier for the purpose of marking this thread as one I'd responded in, but it got deleted.

So, here's a real comment: I was going to go, but now I'm not. Now I hope the whole enterprise crashes, burns, gets urinated on, defecated on, and buried.

I hope sarcasm is your point here. If not, you would fall into the dick category

#21 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 13,709 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 10:33

If you possessed the information others have you would not have posted that supposition.

OLB is spot on.
Jp

#22 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:41

If you possessed the information others have you would not have posted that supposition.

OLB is spot on.
Jp

Hey Jon! :wave:

Everything shape up ok for you guys? ~80 days to go.

#23 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 13,709 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:19

15k to park our bus?
No..They're idiots.
Jp

#24 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,826 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:23

Let's go to Homestead in protest.

#25 Alx09

Alx09
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:41

Is this in a slow section of the circuit? I wouldn't like to see something like Webber did on Kova and fly up and hit that bridge.

Posted Image

Edit: Ah I see it's here:

Posted Image

They should be pretty quick there, but still not super fast I guess.

Edited by Alx09, 29 August 2012 - 12:44.


#26 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:45

Is this in a slow section of the circuit? I wouldn't like to see something like Webber did on Kova and fly up and hit that bridge.

It's the entry to 3 after coming steeply downhill out of 1 to 2...so I don't think it will be particularly slow.

Edit: Ah I see it's here:


No, that's the other ped bridge.

ETA: Look here at the bridge just before Turn 3.

Posted Image

Edited by AustinF1, 29 August 2012 - 12:54.


#27 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 1,235 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:46

The cirucit looks IMMENSE!

I couldn't care less about the politics surrounding the GP; I'm a racing fan, not a politician. As soon as the cars are on the starting grid it will be forgotton about anyway. :wave:

#28 Alx09

Alx09
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:47

It's the entry to 3 after coming steeply downhill out of 1 to 2...so I don't think it will be particularly slow.

No, that's the other ped bridge.


Thanks for clarifying :up:

The cirucit looks IMMENSE!


Circuit looks awesome indeed. Really looking forward to it - I think it may end up a driver's favourite top #3. Feels like it has a nice rhythm.

Edited by Alx09, 29 August 2012 - 12:49.


#29 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 13:04

15k to park our bus?
No..They're idiots.
Jp


15k+...and an escalator...and the RV pads are even below track level.

Yep. Crazy. However, there may be off-track options nearby. Two different lots nearby say they have transportation access agreements with COTA, but most are taking a wait & see approach, waiting for something more than a verbal statement.


#30 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 13:10

Is this in a slow section of the circuit? I wouldn't like to see something like Webber did on Kova and fly up and hit that bridge.

Posted Image

BTW, anyone see a problem there?

#31 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,361 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 29 August 2012 - 13:18

I really like the layout :up:

Posted Image

Couple of things though.

1 - T16-18 AKA Turn 8 at turkey, should be insteresting but I can't help but think it should have a longer straight after it to reward those who get it right and disadvantage those who get it wrong in the race.

2 - As much as I love the sequence I think the barriers on exit the inside of T5 could be a problem being so close to the track. If someone missed the apex of T3 and rejoins at T5 a Bourdais/Newgarden incident could be very likely.

Can't wait to see a real car in anger though, hope it's a full crowd and the F1 circus can undo the damage of Indy 05. F1 needs an American audience to be considered a global sport (even if America doesn't think it needs the rest of the world to take part in it's "global" sports :lol: ).

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 29 August 2012 - 13:19.


#32 Watkins74

Watkins74
  • Member

  • 5,819 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 13:37

The cirucit looks IMMENSE!

I couldn't care less about the politics surrounding the GP; I'm a racing fan, not a politician. As soon as the cars are on the starting grid it will be forgotton about anyway. :wave:

Exactly. I went to the Dr.'s office the other day, I didn't give a shit about any problems they had when they built the building. People are suffering from over-information.

#33 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 1,235 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 14:02

I really like the layout :up:

Posted Image

Couple of things though.

1 - T16-18 AKA Turn 8 at turkey, should be insteresting but I can't help but think it should have a longer straight after it to reward those who get it right and disadvantage those who get it wrong in the race.

2 - As much as I love the sequence I think the barriers on exit the inside of T5 could be a problem being so close to the track. If someone missed the apex of T3 and rejoins at T5 a Bourdais/Newgarden incident could be very likely.

Can't wait to see a real car in anger though, hope it's a full crowd and the F1 circus can undo the damage of Indy 05. F1 needs an American audience to be considered a global sport (even if America doesn't think it needs the rest of the world to take part in it's "global" sports :lol: ).


Turns 2 to 11 is just mouth watering. Could that section almost be....perfect?!

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 29 August 2012 - 14:03.


#34 FerrariFanInTexas

FerrariFanInTexas
  • Member

  • 1,143 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 15:27

The cirucit looks IMMENSE!

I couldn't care less about the politics surrounding the GP; I'm a racing fan, not a politician. As soon as the cars are on the starting grid it will be forgotton about anyway. :wave:


Since I live here in Austin, it's impossible to totally ignore the politics. Still, I find it difficult to "hate" the people currently involved. Yes, they've made a hash of a bunch of things. For instance, it would be nice if they had approached the local community in a different fashion, so for example the County could have seen its way clear to actually upgrade the roads out there. And I do wish all of them (Tavo included) had done things differently with the State and the METF.

On the other hand, these guys, who do seem to be pretty clueless in a lot of areas, have done a monster job getting the track built. They've brought in the right team to design and build the track, they've pulled together the financing in a tough market, and it looks like it will be done weeks ahead of the race. They got the race moved to November, which is much better weather here, and also avoided a major confrontation with the Univ. of Texas football program.

I also can't really fault them for their pricing. Most of the seat prices and the GA price is right in line with other races and other three day weekend events. In the areas they appear to be a bit over the top, such as the PSL's and the RV parking rates, I assume the market will dictate whether they are over-pricing the product, and future races will be priced accordingly.

I've decided to quit grousing and moaning about the opportunities lost or wasted here, and just focus on the good. The track is looking great. The Circus is coming, and I'll be there.

#35 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

HuddersfieldTerrier1986
  • Member

  • 1,974 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 29 August 2012 - 15:47

They got the race moved to November, which is much better weather here.


What sort of weather/temps is normal for the back end of November there?

#36 Bunchies

Bunchies
  • Member

  • 1,500 posts
  • Joined: December 09

Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:10

If you possessed the information others have you would not have posted that supposition.

OLB is spot on.
Jp


Word. There has been a mess behind the scenes. Once Tavo was gone, I became a bit wary of what was to come.

#37 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,022 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:30

The politics, greed, and logistic idiocy are are preventing me from being able to attend the race in person, so hell yeah I'm mad. If I were only watching from home, I'd feel the same way you guys do. And, as I said, once race time comes I'll swallow my hate and enjoy the show from the comfort of my couch.



#38 Frank Tuesday

Frank Tuesday
  • Member

  • 932 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:41

BTW, anyone see a problem there?


Those seats are going to have a brilliant view of the Pirelli billboards on the ped bridge.


#39 Frank Tuesday

Frank Tuesday
  • Member

  • 932 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:45

Turns 2 to 11 is just mouth watering. Could that section almost be....perfect?!


Posted Image

3-9 look almost as perfect as 13-15 look pointless.

Advertisement

#40 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 16:51

Posted Image

3-9 look almost as perfect as 13-15 look pointless.

Be advised that the track layout JA put up is old. It has been revised since then. Look at 8-9-10:

Posted Image

#41 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 17:50

Good posting FFIT, but I need to address a few things:

On the other hand, these guys, who do seem to be pretty clueless in a lot of areas, have done a monster job getting the track built.



They have gotten the track built, but more in spite of themselves than because of them. They didn't have the money or financing up front to get the job done without searching for money throughout the process. That's why they have consistently gone to great pains to promote the construction of their own facility. It's also the reason for multiple delays in the construction and downsizes in the scale.

re: bringing "in the right team to design and build the track"...Tavo did that. He brought in Tilke, HKS, and Austin Commercial. I've heard MRA was Bobby's idea.

re: pulling "together the financing in a tough market"...The financing was supposed to be a given. They said they had it up front. They managed to get it, though, bit by bit throughout the entire process. They also threatened the entire project and bought themselves a much tougher deal with Bernie by cutting Tavo out of the deal and refusing or being unable to pay the sanctioning fee on time.

re: looking "like it will be done weeks ahead of the race"...The track will be done, but that should be considered a given. That's why media from both the U.S. and abroad have asked privately why they were so bent on promoting the construction. We'll have a beautiful new circuit right here in our back yards and it should be done in good time. The rest won't be done weeks before. They'll be working on it until right up until the race and beyond. They already have plans to store equipment off-site and move it right back out there after the race.

re: getting the race moved to November...I was there at Wild Bubba's almost 2 years ago when Tavo talked publicly about being ready for the June date, but "really wanting" a fall date specifically due to the horrible heat faced in Dallas back in '94. The original June date was only on the provisional schedule, and Tavo was still onboard when the new one was announced. Remember also re: the "quick" construction, Tavo was saying then that they should have no problem making the June date if necessary.

re: avoiding a confrontation with the Univ. of Texas football program...He talked then about that, too. University of Texas Athletic Director DeLoss Dodds was involved in the process early on. He was in the room and was acknowledged by Tavo at the original press conference in May 2010. At the Bubba's talk referenced above, he also referred specifically to coordinating a fall date with UT, the Texans, and the Cowboys.

re: seat prices & GA prices "right in line with other races and other three day weekend events"...Most of the prices at COTA are in line with only the few most expensive races.

Edited by AustinF1, 29 August 2012 - 18:17.


#42 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 8,361 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 29 August 2012 - 17:52

[img]

13-15 look pointless.


Everyone said that about the twisty section at the end of the lap in Turkey but it turned out to be one of the best spots for overtaking and swapping places.

I love the look of the maggots section but as it tightens in the last two corners I feel its going to end up being a bit more like the snake at suzuka; a technical challenge that doesn't allow any kind of racing to be done. If it was silverstone turn 7 would lead onto the hangar straight, instead there is another tighter right hander before it opens up into 9 and 10. Hopefully this last corner can catch some people out and allow following cars to get a good non drs move into the hairpin at 11.

#43 OfficeLinebacker

OfficeLinebacker
  • Member

  • 14,022 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 29 August 2012 - 17:59

Let's go to Homestead in protest.

Nah I just figure this is more prep time for me to foster a relationship with a family that owns one of the condos overlooking the New Jersey track.

#44 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 18:09

Those seats are going to have a brilliant view of the Pirelli billboards on the ped bridge.

OK, so it's not just me. Good.

I'll be out there tomorrow and I'll try to get some different angles on this.

#45 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 18:12

Everyone said that about the twisty section at the end of the lap in Turkey but it turned out to be one of the best spots for overtaking and swapping places.

I love the look of the maggots section but as it tightens in the last two corners I feel its going to end up being a bit more like the snake at suzuka; a technical challenge that doesn't allow any kind of racing to be done. If it was silverstone turn 7 would lead onto the hangar straight, instead there is another tighter right hander before it opens up into 9 and 10.

The section from 7-10 is slower now than in the version posted by JA. JA's version is slower than the initial one we saw two years ago. Seems the FIA had a lot of input on that sequence.

Hopefully this last corner can catch some people out and allow following cars to get a good non drs move into the hairpin at 11.



Good observation. Hellmund designed that corner with a very narrow, blind entry so that if you aren't spot-on, you'll be vulnerable entering 11.

Edited by AustinF1, 29 August 2012 - 18:24.


#46 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 7,070 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 29 August 2012 - 18:34

15k to park our bus?
No..They're idiots.
Jp


15k Holy sh1t! Of those who are going here what sort of figure are you having to spend all in? (If you don't mind being asked)

#47 BullHead

BullHead
  • Member

  • 7,070 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 29 August 2012 - 18:58

Well If I were to go from the UK for a 4 night do, it would cost on average (from a quick look round) about £2,500 per person, based on two people. That's for what appears to be a half decent hotel and reasonable stand ticket. (though £1000 was the asking for a turn 1 seat. wow). Would probably need another £1000 on top for spends. Call it £3,500 pp.
Sounds expensive to me, but I'll compare to that to say... Singapore.

Singapore for a 3 night do inc hotel and stand ticket works out £2,000 per person.

So roughly the same, maybe Austin a tad more expensive. All in all not really pricing itself massively above other top notch F1 events from a UK point of view.

But $15,000 for RV spot? Is it where Bernie parks his bus or something?

Edited by BullHead, 29 August 2012 - 19:09.


#48 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 2,194 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 29 August 2012 - 19:07

Well If I were to go from the UK for a 4 night do, it would cost on average (from a quick look round) about £2,500 per person, based on two people. That's for what appears to be a half decent hotel and reasonable stand ticket. (though £1000 was the asking for a turn 1 seat. wow). Would probably need another £1000 on top for spends. Call it £3,500 pp.
Sounds expensive to me, but I'll compare to that to say... Singapore.

FWIW, I did Montreal in 2010 by myself for less than $1500. That's for last-minute airfare from Austin to Hartford, 4 nights lodging, tickets at the hairpin and T2 on different days, a rental car, gas, 3-day metro pass, drinks, food, and toy f1 cars for my boys.

I've spent ~$550 just for 3 GA seats to COTA. GS is out of the question.

But $15,000 for RV spot? Is it where Bernie parks his bus or something?


I think they think of it as their Marina area.;)

Edited by AustinF1, 29 August 2012 - 19:48.


#49 FerrariFanInTexas

FerrariFanInTexas
  • Member

  • 1,143 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 29 August 2012 - 20:28

What sort of weather/temps is normal for the back end of November there?


Day time highs in the low to mid 70's. If it's a hot year, maybe into the upper 70's. If it's a cold year, maybe only high 60's. Nights should be in the 50's, maybe upper 40's if it's a cold year. Decent chance of rain, but it's not our wettest time of year. Not as arid as the high summer, but nearly not as wet as springtime.

#50 Woody3says

Woody3says
  • Member

  • 425 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 30 August 2012 - 16:22

Any idea of when the designated parking lots areas for shuttle will be announced? Looking right now to book a room on the East side of San Antonio and I would like to be able to get an idea of the roads needed to get to the school bus......