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USA Grand Prix 2012 - part 2


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#751 BullHead

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 11:43

T 19 needs a name. It's already a classic, IMO - we haven't seen a turn all year give drivers that much trouble, that's great IMO.


Agree. Something with a US connotation, perhaps to do with a baseball term or something like that? Something with 'swing' or 'sling' in it.

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#752 Kucki

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:11

People knocking what appears to be - to the drivers - a very difficult circuit, before they've even seen them race on it?

I think the wide inside entry design will provide some novel opportunities. It might be too slippy to pull off today, but next year for sure.

T 19 needs a name. It's already a classic, IMO - we haven't seen a turn all year give drivers that much trouble, that's great IMO.

Another point: I don't mind the slippery track at all. In fact, I think every track should have a painted surface entry/turn at some place just to make it more interesting. They were almost having to sling the cars around WRC style in some places, we haven't seen that anywhere - sorry, I think so far the track rules!

Still worry about T1, though. Another thought: what happens if there is a crash, someone loses their brakes... and starts to roll back down the hill into oncoming traffic? PS3 anyone?


:rotfl:

#753 noikeee

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 12:18

I've not been able to watch live any of the free practices or the qualy but from a few onboards I've seen... T19 is indeed one of the better corners, it's a very simple type of corner that has been underused in recent track designs, mid-speed kink linking two straights.

However I am slightly disappointed about two things... first of all the turns 8/9 S is too slow and too close together to the previous quick corners complex. I see it is challenging no doubt but ruins the flow a bit there. The other issue I have is much to my surprise the four-apex turn 16/17/18 seems flat!! At least in the pole lap it was. I never expected it to be as good as Turkey's Turn 8 as the run down to it is very short but nevertheless that's a bit underwhelming, presumably during the race it'll be more challenging.

Overall it's still a good circuit no doubt but I felt a slightly better vibe before actually watching the onboards. The good part is too intense and too crammed together, whereas the rest of the lap is nothing particularly special despite a couple decent features in the four-apex, the T19 kink and the overrated uphill run to T1.

#754 BoozeBaron

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 18:45

Just saw the stunt Ferrari pulled to move Alonso up and over to the clean side... Let's watch Massa and see where he ends up at the end of Turn 1 - I do think there's a slight advantage with a 'running start' - albeit slight - Also agree, let's race first before making grandiose comments about what is good or bad about an unraced track...

Good turnout - Proud of Austin - and think this should be a cracker with the greasy track...

Am watching Martin's gridwalk now... and wondering of LH and Seb are gonna tangle :-P Hope so! :)

#755 AustinF1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:08

Whats the point of such wide entry into T1 ? It's stupid, just a piece of dirty tarmac that will be never used.

The purpose of it is was to entice some drivers into trying exactly what we saw in the Porsche Cup race this morning...making a dive down the inside that's VERY difficult to complete successfuly.

#756 AustinF1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:09

Wow. What a great 4 days.

I'm a total zombie right now, but I have about a bazillion photos to sort through from all around the circuit, the paddock, & pit lane. I'll get some up as soon as i can, which probably means sometime tomorrow. Hope you all enjoyed the race. I know I did.

For the time being, here are a handful of phone photos I took in the last few days:

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#757 AustinF1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:12

From the 'not another dumb question' dept - Uhm, in looking at this pic - and the downhill/uphill angles (never seen this before - great photo) - I'm no physics expert, but won't those that start further in the back get a bit of a running start so to speak by having more downhill momentum (i.e. gravity) vs. those in the front rows that will have to jump straight into an uphill climb cold? In looking at this, it would almost seem if a RBR or Macca started from the mid/back of the pack, they'd get such a running start, they'd pass the entire field? :-/

Actually, the main straight is not downhill at any point. IIRC, it starts out roughly level near turn 20 and then is slightly uphill most of the way before going steeply uphill.

Edited by AustinF1, 19 November 2012 - 04:13.


#758 AustinF1

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:16

There's a question for AustinF1, Ted Kravitz said he's been to tracks all over the world and has never seen a better helicopter pilot, he obviously has to fly low due to the proximity of the airport but Ted called him an Ace i think, or something similar, but was wondering whether the pilot was a Vet ?


I have to say he was getting some great shots.

Huh. No idea. I saw his flying & just figured he traveled with the f1 circus.

#759 Kopuliak

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 04:17

look at this video, it's not mine

Visit My Website

Edited by Kopuliak, 19 November 2012 - 04:19.


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#760 Collective

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 05:35

Did you guys see the "Stay strong Gustavo. A lot to be proud of. -Bernie" billboards that were all over Austin? Classy Bernie hehehe

#761 sergeym

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 06:14

Great track :up: It looks challenging to drive and as we saw yesterday - overtaking is just right - not easy, but not impossible.



#762 olliek88

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:00

Did you guys see the "Stay strong Gustavo. A lot to be proud of. -Bernie" billboards that were all over Austin? Classy Bernie hehehe


Whose Gustavo? Not this legend is it?



#763 FredrikB

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:08

Wow. What a great 4 days.

I'm a total zombie right now, but I have about a bazillion photos to sort through from all around the circuit, the paddock, & pit lane. I'll get some up as soon as i can, which probably means sometime tomorrow. Hope you all enjoyed the race. I know I did.

Well, a big THANK YOU for all the updates and photos trough the months leading up to the race.
This track looked promising from the start and lived up to every expectation.

Absolutely fantastic work done since this: http://www.youtube.c...;feature=fvwrel

:clap:

#764 swerved

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 07:30

Huh. No idea. I saw his flying & just figured he traveled with the f1 circus.



Cheers, I'm guessing he was local otherwise Kravitz might have known who he was, in any case, big congrats on your home GP, looks like it has great support, deservedly so, you and your buddies have put a lot of work and effort into this thread, well done for that also, its been great to follow it evolving from fields into a great circuit and facility. :up:


#765 Tombstone

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 08:41

Agree. Something with a US connotation, perhaps to do with a baseball term or something like that? Something with 'swing' or 'sling' in it.


How about 'Gunslinger'.

And whilst in the mood:

Turn 1: Boot Hill

Turns 3-5 (and maybe 6-9 too): Rattlesnake

Edited by Tombstone, 19 November 2012 - 09:04.


#766 noikeee

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 09:37

I've not been able to watch live any of the free practices or the qualy but from a few onboards I've seen... T19 is indeed one of the better corners, it's a very simple type of corner that has been underused in recent track designs, mid-speed kink linking two straights.

However I am slightly disappointed about two things... first of all the turns 8/9 S is too slow and too close together to the previous quick corners complex. I see it is challenging no doubt but ruins the flow a bit there. The other issue I have is much to my surprise the four-apex turn 16/17/18 seems flat!! At least in the pole lap it was. I never expected it to be as good as Turkey's Turn 8 as the run down to it is very short but nevertheless that's a bit underwhelming, presumably during the race it'll be more challenging.

Overall it's still a good circuit no doubt but I felt a slightly better vibe before actually watching the onboards. The good part is too intense and too crammed together, whereas the rest of the lap is nothing particularly special despite a couple decent features in the four-apex, the T19 kink and the overrated uphill run to T1.


I take back some comments as I was again pleased after watching the actual race.

T1 is no massive challenge but makes for some spectacular TV images particularly when the field is close together and goes through it. The passes into T1 then completed into T2 were lovely to watch. I think for all the complaining the track is too wide, that strip of tarmac from the exit from T1 to T2 narrows A LOT suddenly, and that adds to the excitement when the fields goes through it on the first lap.

T3-T9 albeit I still think 8/9 should be slightly more open, look great on TV during the race.

The slow corners complex T12/T15, which we've criticized a lot and did look rather pointless during hotlaps, were brilliant for racing allowing for divebomb late breaking passes, and passing and re-passing back-and-forth battles. I was up for straightlining that complex before, after watching the race I think it's just fine as it is.

I still maintain that the four-apex is a little underwhelming in terms of challenge but the surprising following T19 makes up for it.

Class track, fantastic TV shots, great atmosphere, great race. Perhaps in future years it won't be as eventful when the track surface isn't as green but this event was a big success from my point of view. Like someone said here recently, this venue definitely shits all over Korea, India, Abu Dhabi and the other recent tracks, even if I already had thought Korea and India were a step up over previous awful designs and a move in the right direction.

Edited by noikeee, 19 November 2012 - 09:41.


#767 paulrobs

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:38

Of the people who were at the circuit, were any of you able to watch the cars going through turns 3 to 7? If so, have you also seen modern F1 cars through Becketts at Silverstone? And how do they compare? Even on TV the cars were looking massively fast and impressive thrugh those turns during the race. I then damn nearly wet myself when Raikkonen went side by side with someone (Hulkenburg?) through the first part of this complex of turns. Must be really something watching the cars through those turns as I've always reckoned that you get a much better appreciation of how good F1 cars are when they go round a succession of fast corners. My best memories of many GPs and practice sessions at Silverstone, especially qualifying sessions, are sitting on the outside of Copse, Becketts and the old Bridge corner and not watching them reach 190/200 down a straight.

#768 dau

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 14:51

Attendance numbers are in:

Fri 65,360
Sat 82,710
Sun 117,429

That's 265,499 for the whole event then. Nice.

#769 FerrariFanInTexas

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 15:01

Whose Gustavo? Not this legend is it?


Gustavo is Tavo Hellmund's father. He is a friend of Bernie and is quite sick st the moment (cancer?). Bernie was wishing him well. Which sounds almost like Bernie has a heart.

#770 F1ultimate

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 17:16

I wonder how much COTA had to pay Bernie for the use of cowboy hats. Other circuits organizers are probably knocking on Bernie's door now to pull something similar next year.

#771 Tombstone

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:02

I wonder how much COTA had to pay Bernie for the use of cowboy hats. Other circuits organizers are probably knocking on Bernie's door now to pull something similar next year.


I suspect it was a Pirelli/COTA idea, or even just Pirelli.

#772 jrg19

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:09

Wasn't Pirelli the main sponsor for the race?

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Have to say its good way to get people talking about Pirelli.

#773 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:20

No, there wasn't a race sponsor, but they did fill in some of the slots that would have gone to one. Notice it isn't called the Pirelli Grand Prix of the United States.

The other thing I noticed(because I was looking and I'm a nerd about these things) was how few sponsors there actually were on the event. Pirelli, UBS, and LG took most(all?) of them. There was Allianz painted in the pitlane like every other race but it was a very 'quiet' event. And given that F1's audience is still international I'm surprised we didn't see anything else. At least Shell or Mobil or someone.

#774 BoozeBaron

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:31

No, there wasn't a race sponsor, but they did fill in some of the slots that would have gone to one. Notice it isn't called the Pirelli Grand Prix of the United States.

The other thing I noticed(because I was looking and I'm a nerd about these things) was how few sponsors there actually were on the event. Pirelli, UBS, and LG took most(all?) of them. There was Allianz painted in the pitlane like every other race but it was a very 'quiet' event. And given that F1's audience is still international I'm surprised we didn't see anything else. At least Shell or Mobil or someone.

Just in the "for what it's worth" category, I contacted Full Throttle Productions (original event coordinator) about corporate advertising for my company and was told we could only do things "off track" ... All the rest (track signage) goes to the F1 regulars or race sponsors (UBS Allianz Shell Perelli etc.) Am sure they have exclusives after sleeping with Bernie ... We wanted to beat the Budweiser's of the world to the punch... For don't you think if anyone could/would, Bud, Coke or Pepsi would have? Only in America :( Kinda glad it wasn't littered with McDonald's and Pepsi adverts TBH

Edited by BoozeBaron, 19 November 2012 - 18:32.


#775 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 18:52

You can buy an F1 ad-pack but it's many millions of dollars. The beer companies tend to only want pouring rights so they do a deal with the circuit for the year rather than with the series that show up. So there was probably an exclusive beer brand that was being sold at COTA, or a soda manufacturer, or whatever; but they didn't bother to advertise it.



#776 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:10

It strikes me the first sector could get interesting in large field endurance racing, with the difficulty in passing slower traffic.

#777 Clatter

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:37

Just in the "for what it's worth" category, I contacted Full Throttle Productions (original event coordinator) about corporate advertising for my company and was told we could only do things "off track" ... All the rest (track signage) goes to the F1 regulars or race sponsors (UBS Allianz Shell Perelli etc.) Am sure they have exclusives after sleeping with Bernie ... We wanted to beat the Budweiser's of the world to the punch... For don't you think if anyone could/would, Bud, Coke or Pepsi would have? Only in America :( Kinda glad it wasn't littered with McDonald's and Pepsi adverts TBH


Do Full Throttle deal with all the signage? The normal deal is that all the track side advertising is owned by FOM which could be the reason you were only offered off track stuff


#778 john ruston

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:40

Absolutely no coverage on ESPN today .Total motorsport stuff about NASCAR.

European football covered.

F1 has a lot of work to do to dent the US Sports Market.


More or less same number of people attended as one kids football game on Sunday between teams rated in 20's

#779 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 19:51

Where on earth do you get 100,000 attending a non NFL or NCAA football game?

And of course ESPN wasn't going to cover it, they slant everything towards the big stuff but mainly things they broadcast.

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#780 BoozeBaron

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 20:01

Do Full Throttle deal with all the signage? The normal deal is that all the track side advertising is owned by FOM which could be the reason you were only offered off track stuff


To the best of my knowledge, Full Throttle was given the boot when the whole deal collapsed back in Fall of 2011 - We didn't like the looks of things after they said construction was off, so didn't pursue it any further - We already have a standing deal in place with one of the teams now, but that is not FOM - So this was a bit different, we wanted USA advertising for Austin only (track signage) - and we were told just that (per my OP) - which I said most likely had to do with deals already made with Bernie (or as you said, FOM - synonymous IMO) So, I think we can both draw the same conclusion and the same answer - If I recall correctly - the Shell logo only shows up on a handful of European tracks - Fuji has Japan obviously - Allianz with Germany - and so on... TTBOMK there is no title sponsor for the USGP - yet - That would be 10's of millions... Even with their 7 year contract in place (and as someone just posted below/above - there was NO ESPN coverage) hardly worth it for us in the US markets - No ROI.... yet...

#781 F1ultimate

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Posted 19 November 2012 - 20:59

Where on earth do you get 100,000 attending a non NFL or NCAA football game?


FOM was unusually keen on shooting the stands this weekend and give helicopter angles of the entire circuit just to show off how well attended the race was. It was a success but the test will be next year. Most inaugural races sell out but the following years they struggle. Just look at Abu Dhabi, despite being a successful race this year the grand stands on the front straight were no at full capacity.

#782 Tom Smith

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:13

http://circuitofthea.../2012-usgp/race

#783 john ruston

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 13:40

70/100 thousand people.

Those kids playing college football games on Saturdays.Lots of mistakes and odd scores and action.

Only place in the world that has that many people attending a feeder competition.US sport is unusual in the way it is organised and unique in world.

ESPN cover most sports to some extent.There was nothing on F1 yesterday,lots on NASCAR.Not on the news banner under the show Sunday.

Nothing wrong with it just isolated and different.










#784 ericok

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 13:47

Posted my photos of the general admission, Austin FanFest, and race images. I have to say that this is one of the most fan friendly tracks to attend. You can actually see racing from the general admission areas. The entire area between the start-finish line and turn one is general admission with clear views of both (of course, like any general admission areas, you have to arrive early). My seats were at the hairpin but, even there, general admission is right at the apex of the hairpin (where Montreal has a grandstand). The elevation changes help a lot. I took the bus shuttle from both the Expo area (which was free) and downtown (which was $20). They must have leased every bus in Texas because there seemed to be an endless supply of transport. Ride to the track was about 45 minutes from each location and they dropped you off only 1 mile short of the entrance :well:

http://www.flickr.co...57632051836599/
http://www.flickr.co...57632051189233/

Edited by ericok, 20 November 2012 - 16:25.


#785 ericok

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 13:55

You can buy an F1 ad-pack but it's many millions of dollars. The beer companies tend to only want pouring rights so they do a deal with the circuit for the year rather than with the series that show up. So there was probably an exclusive beer brand that was being sold at COTA, or a soda manufacturer, or whatever; but they didn't bother to advertise it.

I was actually surprised that there WASN'T an exclusive beer sponsor. Budweiser, Miller, Guiness, Stella, Coke, Pepsi, etc. were all sold at the track. Someone at COTA missed a marketing opportunity.

Edited by ericok, 20 November 2012 - 13:58.


#786 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 13:57

Posted my photos of the general admission, Austin FanFest, and race images. I have to say that this is one of the most fan friendly tracks to attend. You can actually see racing from the general admission areas. The entire area between the start-finish line and turn one is general admission with clear views of both (of course, like any general admission areas, you have to arrive early). My seats were at the hairpin but, even there, general admission is right at the apex of the hairpin (where Montreal has a grandstand). The elevation changes help a lot. I took the bus shuttle from both the Expo area (which was free) and downtown (which was $20). They must have leased every bus in Texas because there seemed to be an endless supply of transport. Ride to the track was about 45 minutes from each location and they dropped you off only 1 mile short of the entrance :well:

http://www.flickr.co...N0...051836599/
http://www.flickr.co...N0...051189233/


Your flickr links aren't working.

#787 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 14:10

So the teams favorite late night hangout seemed to be Pete's Dueling Piano Bar. Saturday night, I got to talk to Otmar Szafnauer (CEO of Force India) and Ciaron Pilbeam (Race Engineer for Mark Webber). Otmar commented that he knew 90% of the people in the bar that night. No drivers there, though. I never would have known who they were if I weren't there with someone who knew them personally.

I got to hear a driver announcement that hasn't been made public, yet.

#788 TurboF1

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 14:47

This was an amazing event, I'm at work at the moment but i'll have pictures and a more detail write up when i get home.

#789 gm914

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 14:57

I wonder how much COTA had to pay Bernie for the use of cowboy hats. Other circuits organizers are probably knocking on Bernie's door now to pull something similar next year.

Wearing the host city's/nation's official headwear should now be a mandatory fixture.

And another reason we need to fast-track the Mexico GP. Podium sombreros FTW.

#790 ericok

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 16:27

Your flickr links aren't working.

Thank you. Fixed them in the original post also.

http://www.flickr.co...57632051836599/
http://www.flickr.co...57632051189233/

#791 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 16:42

I was actually surprised that there WASN'T an exclusive beer sponsor. Budweiser, Miller, Guiness, Stella, Coke, Pepsi, etc. were all sold at the track. Someone at COTA missed a marketing opportunity.


That money probably would have gone to FOM and added another few million to the bill. So if you're the beer company and you're already getting people to buy your product, you don't really need the advertising.

#792 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 16:47

Some fantastic photos on Axis of Oversteer: http://blog.axisofov...ustin.html#more

And more: http://www.flickr.co...s/12709551@N07/

#793 paulrobs

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:04

Thank you. Fixed them in the original post also.

http://www.flickr.co...57632051836599/
http://www.flickr.co...57632051189233/


Very very nice set of photos, thanks for sharing!

#794 paulrobs

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:05

So the teams favorite late night hangout seemed to be Pete's Dueling Piano Bar. Saturday night, I got to talk to Otmar Szafnauer (CEO of Force India) and Ciaron Pilbeam (Race Engineer for Mark Webber). Otmar commented that he knew 90% of the people in the bar that night. No drivers there, though. I never would have known who they were if I weren't there with someone who knew them personally.

I got to hear a driver announcement that hasn't been made public, yet.


Now you can't tell us something like that without giving us the full details please :)

#795 TheManAlive

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:13

A really good track. Only thing I would change is the annoying red painted bits at the side of the track. I know that we dont put grass next to the tracks anymore (heaven knows why not) but please just paint it grass green rather than a garish red.

I miss places like Imola where it was track, white line, grass and when the GP was on there were patches of white flowers . Was a beautiful sight.

#796 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:22

Now you can't tell us something like that without giving us the full details please :)


No can do. I was with a journalist, and I can't give details. I will say that the driver isn't currently racing in F1.


#797 noikeee

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:27

We already know about Esteban GutiƩrrez but thanks.

or is it someone else? tell us tell us tell us

Edited by noikeee, 20 November 2012 - 17:28.


#798 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:28

We already know about Esteban GutiƩrrez but thanks.

or is it someone else?


Who was I talking to?


#799 dau

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:32

No can do. I was with a journalist, and I can't give details. I will say that the driver isn't currently racing in F1.

But who was racing in F1 some time ago.

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#800 loki

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 17:41

A really good track. Only thing I would change is the annoying red painted bits at the side of the track. I know that we dont put grass next to the tracks anymore (heaven knows why not) but please just paint it grass green rather than a garish red.

I miss places like Imola where it was track, white line, grass and when the GP was on there were patches of white flowers . Was a beautiful sight.


When I saw the paint first go down I was hoping they weren't going to do a full on USA type paint scheme. I'm a Yank and I love being one, but the paint is over the top for me. I see they do that at other circuits as well but I'd agree, green or even a more neutral color would suit me better. But then I'm not paying the bills... :wave:

When I first saw the still shots as a driver I thought I'd have a difficult time seeing the apex of some of the turns because of the paint. (the class I'm currently in will hold a race at COTA in March). Once I saw the in car shots, I realized it wouldn't be an issue. Still not a fan of how they did it. It's a small thing though compare to the otherwise ,IMNSHO, pristine circuit.

Edited by loki, 20 November 2012 - 17:45.