Jump to content


Photo

Ferrari F2012 - Part III


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4052 replies to this topic

#1 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,146 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 04 September 2012 - 19:05

Old topic closed due to technical reasons. Please remember that this thread is regarding car development. Please use the following threads for other discussion related to Ferrari:

- Fernando Alonso thread
- Felipe Massa thread
- Alonso vs Massa thread

Thank you. :)

Advertisement

#2 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,260 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 September 2012 - 19:11

I can't wait to see the Monza package. I wonder if it's good to have the DRS for Monza, because you need to have a slim rear wing right, so why keeping DRS ?

#3 topical

topical
  • Member

  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 04 September 2012 - 19:37

Ferrari often announce their driver line ups at Monza. Does anyone think there's a chance Massa will be confirmed here for 2013?

Cos over in the MS thread his fans are going crazy about the prospect of him rejoining Ferrari next year. Personally I can't see it. Are any of the Italian papers even talking about a rumour of Massa being re-confirmed, or is a decision definitely not expected yet?

#4 crespo

crespo
  • Member

  • 486 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 04 September 2012 - 19:43

Despite the tradition, I'd be surprised if they make a "Massa leaving the team/being replaced" announcement this weekend. In Massa's case, I actually hope to see them wait until season's end. At the very least I'd like to see Massa string together some good results in the remaining races and see him finish on a good run, with his chin up.

SO, the Spa engine seems to be OK. I think someone mentioned they would be using a fresh engine for Monza anyway, but it still bodes well. I think the importance of a fresh engine is undervalued these days, despite what the teams say.

#5 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 04 September 2012 - 19:54

Ferrari often announce their driver line ups at Monza. Does anyone think there's a chance Massa will be confirmed here for 2013?

Cos over in the MS thread his fans are going crazy about the prospect of him rejoining Ferrari next year. Personally I can't see it. Are any of the Italian papers even talking about a rumour of Massa being re-confirmed, or is a decision definitely not expected yet?

Stefano Confirmed no announcement would take place.
Can't find it now, but he said that no announcement would take place. But that doesn't mean there won't be one.
To be honest, i have said this, I would love Schumi.

#6 topical

topical
  • Member

  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 04 September 2012 - 20:02

Ok, so no announcement taking place, good to know. I agree that Massa should be given a few more races to prove himself, though really it's hard to see him justifying his place for next year, unless Ferrari already have his replacement lined up for 2013.

Schumacher back at Ferrari would be fun but they say you should never go back to your ex wife. I can't see it happening.

#7 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,877 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 04 September 2012 - 21:50

Although Schumacher would offer a lot to Ferrari, I'm just not too sure it will happen. Italian media are adamant that Vettel has signed for 2014 onwards so whatever they offer Schumacher would have to be a 1 year deal.

That said, Montezemolo is very fond of the Kaizer so it is a distinct possibility.

#8 keiichi

keiichi
  • Member

  • 290 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 04 September 2012 - 22:00

Schumacher going back to Ferrari for one last hurrah would be pretty cool. I don't think he'll be in F1 beyond 2013, so even if the 2014 Vettel rumour is true there shouldn't be a problem. That said, I reckon it's still a long shot.

#9 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,260 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 04 September 2012 - 22:29

It will be a win win solution for both, Ferrari and Schumacher. Ferrari will have Schumacher to wait Vettel ( if it's true ), and Schumacher will have a more competitive car for his last year, even if Alonso is now better than Schumacher, i think the " fox " is able to win two or three races with a good car.

#10 TIFOlonSO

TIFOlonSO
  • Member

  • 320 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 04 September 2012 - 23:36

p iii

#11 Hanzo

Hanzo
  • Member

  • 680 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 September 2012 - 00:55

It is time to see a "new" face driving for a top team. Another year with Felipe would be bad for both the driver and the team.
When Michael left Ferrari he said something about not letting Massa without a car for that season, I don't see Michael replacing his friend next season, as much as I would love that.


#12 RedOne

RedOne
  • Member

  • 1,561 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:37

What did the OP just say eh :cat:

Let's get back on topic

#13 HPT

HPT
  • Member

  • 1,155 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:54

It is time to see a "new" face driving for a top team. Another year with Felipe would be bad for both the driver and the team.
When Michael left Ferrari he said something about not letting Massa without a car for that season, I don't see Michael replacing his friend next season, as much as I would love that.


I never believed him when he said that about Massa. Anyways, it's a bit OT.

#14 topical

topical
  • Member

  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:06

Although Schumacher would offer a lot to Ferrari, I'm just not too sure it will happen. Italian media are adamant that Vettel has signed for 2014 onwards so whatever they offer Schumacher would have to be a 1 year deal.

That said, Montezemolo is very fond of the Kaizer so it is a distinct possibility.


How does the Vettel for 2014 deal sit with Alonso, according to the Italian media? Is Alonso prepared to drive alongside Vettel or are the Italian media saying that if Alonso doesn't win the title in 2012-3 he will be released to another team and simply replaced by Vettel?


#15 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 566 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:41

How does the Vettel for 2014 deal sit with Alonso, according to the Italian media? Is Alonso prepared to drive alongside Vettel or are the Italian media saying that if Alonso doesn't win the title in 2012-3 he will be released to another team and simply replaced by Vettel?


I was in the paddock on saturday and interestingly people seem to believe he didn't veto him but interestingly he vetoed Lewis (which makes sense as if it's a close season they'd take too many points off each other). It's only a pre-contract agreement though, based on if the Ferrari is in title contention next year.

Ferrari seriously believe they can get this super team to happen and Philip Morris will pay Vettel a wage similar to Alonso.

And yeah, Schumacher to Ferrari would be amazing.

Edited by Goron3, 05 September 2012 - 08:42.


#16 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,522 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 05 September 2012 - 10:29

Monza preview with Stefano.



Creepy lighting.

#17 topical

topical
  • Member

  • 2,069 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 05 September 2012 - 14:04

I was in the paddock on saturday and interestingly people seem to believe he didn't veto him but interestingly he vetoed Lewis (which makes sense as if it's a close season they'd take too many points off each other). It's only a pre-contract agreement though, based on if the Ferrari is in title contention next year.

Ferrari seriously believe they can get this super team to happen and Philip Morris will pay Vettel a wage similar to Alonso.

And yeah, Schumacher to Ferrari would be amazing.



Very interesting. If that's true it means Alonso feels he could beat Vettel head to head but doesn't want to go up against Hamilton again in the same team.
Given Alonso's comments today that he will end his career at Ferrari, it seems he and Vettel have no choice but to be in the same team unless they both stay where they are for the next five years. Will be interesting to see...

Anyway, back to the topic of the thread - let's hope for a good Monza package and a rapid bouncing back from the Spa disaster...


#18 KirilVarbanov

KirilVarbanov
  • Member

  • 831 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 14:16

At least one fresh engine for Alonso.
Going from race to race, engine's performance goes down with about 5% but it's more coming out of Monza or Spa, according to Luca Marmorini himself.

Expected package besides shallow rear wing should consist of larger bargeboards, thinner engine cover, and cascade-less front wing, IMHO.
What you also can afford on track like that is less cooling than usual, so modifications in sidepods would not be unusual. This are just personal mind stretched calculations, let's see what the team will bring, the first photos should arrive in about day and a half :)

#19 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,522 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 05 September 2012 - 14:54

Scuderia Ferrari Racing News n.15



Advertisement

#20 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 16:43

How does the Vettel for 2014 deal sit with Alonso, according to the Italian media? Is Alonso prepared to drive alongside Vettel or are the Italian media saying that if Alonso doesn't win the title in 2012-3 he will be released to another team and simply replaced by Vettel?

My last Post on driver issues.

From his interview with F1 Racing, Alonso himself:

There have been rumours that Vettel might be joining Ferrari for 2014. Have you vetoed him or would you be happy for him to join?

Sebastian will be welcome here.




#21 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,224 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 05 September 2012 - 16:44

At least one fresh engine for Alonso.
Going from race to race, engine's performance goes down with about 5% but it's more coming out of Monza or Spa, according to Luca Marmorini himself.

That sounds like a bit much. I've heard a few horsepower, but thats about it. 5% performance drop would be around 30+hp. No way thats right.

Also, finally got around to watching the whole race. I'm not sure what you guys were so assured of looking at Massa. He wasn't that quick and probably would have struggled to finish top 10 if all the others hadn't retired. I mean, Hulkenberg was pretty much just as quick as him at the end there.

#22 rsaca

rsaca
  • Member

  • 330 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 September 2012 - 17:20

Posted Image

#23 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,877 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 September 2012 - 17:33

That sounds like a bit much. I've heard a few horsepower, but thats about it. 5% performance drop would be around 30+hp. No way thats right.

Also, finally got around to watching the whole race. I'm not sure what you guys were so assured of looking at Massa. He wasn't that quick and probably would have struggled to finish top 10 if all the others hadn't retired. I mean, Hulkenberg was pretty much just as quick as him at the end there.

You call wiping out a 10 seconds advantage just as quick as? Massa was the fastest of the two stoppers and only had a poor first stint on the options.

I have no doubt that Alonso would have smoked Vettel here too. Not sure about Button though.

#24 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,224 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 05 September 2012 - 17:40

You call wiping out a 10 seconds advantage just as quick as? Massa was the fastest of the two stoppers and only had a poor first stint on the options.

I have no doubt that Alonso would have smoked Vettel here too. Not sure about Button though.

I've only just seen the race, but it seems to me he gained most of his time while the little pack was bunched up behind Schumacher.

#25 Gintonious

Gintonious
  • Member

  • 968 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 17:55

I wonder will we see him in Maranello soon?

#26 RedOne

RedOne
  • Member

  • 1,561 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 18:11

I wonder will we see him in Maranello soon?


I don't know but atleast it's more relevant than talking about driver line ups for 2014, we haven't even finished 2012, yet alone 2013. Why that matters now I don't know. I'm more focused on seeing if we can win this championship, Ferrari still thinks their destiny is in there own hands so these next few races we shall see if they can take control.

#27 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,877 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 September 2012 - 18:20

I've only just seen the race, but it seems to me he gained most of his time while the little pack was bunched up behind Schumacher.

That's true. Forgot about that little train but there were stages when following live timing where Massa was really quick for sustained periods in the 2nd and 3rd stints.

#28 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 18:23

Even before that train, Felipe was going very quickly. it was only when Felipe was directly behind did that help really.
and anyways, the guy started 14th. i have seen worse logic to try and paint Lotus/Sauber as the best car in various races this season.

#29 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,260 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 September 2012 - 18:30

Before he hit traffic, Massa was one of the fastest guy on track with the hard tyres. He was very slow with the softer, but very very fast with the hard. Two times he set the fastest lap of the race, and his fastest lap is way better than all two stoppers. The car was very fast at Spa.


#30 RedOne

RedOne
  • Member

  • 1,561 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 18:43

Why were we absolutely no where on the softs, if we had stayed on them longer would they have come back to us like they did Button or maybe Alonso could have made better use of them, we will never know.

#31 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,877 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 September 2012 - 21:07

Why were we absolutely no where on the softs, if we had stayed on them longer would they have come back to us like they did Button or maybe Alonso could have made better use of them, we will never know.

I've noticed that in some races the Ferrari doesn't like the option tyres. Alonso seems to cope better than Massa though.

#32 RedOne

RedOne
  • Member

  • 1,561 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 September 2012 - 23:43

I've noticed that in some races the Ferrari doesn't like the option tyres. Alonso seems to cope better than Massa though.


Yeah at Silverstone it cost us the victory, it's not all the time though maybe under curtain temperatures it happens is all I can think of, I hope it's not going to be a problem for us later.

#33 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 3,972 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 00:36

Yeah at Silverstone it cost us the victory, it's not all the time though maybe under curtain temperatures it happens is all I can think of, I hope it's not going to be a problem for us later.


Certain temps for sure. Luckily it's not going to be too warm this weekend and the F2012 shouldn't have any problems with the tyres. If the Monza-Spec F2012 is anything like the Spa spec car, Fernando has a good chance of increasing his lead in the WDC. Lots of if's, but I think this weekend will work out much better than people think. Same for Singapore. The question is the rest of the season and getting the car to where it's just a bit better than what it is now and keeping it consistent. Ferrari doesn't have to have the fastest car to win the WDC. The way things have played out thus far, it's quite good at some tracks and sufficient at others. It just needs a little more pace and no more idiotic incidents like 1st lap of Spa GP.

#34 Hanzo

Hanzo
  • Member

  • 680 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 06 September 2012 - 04:06

I have the feeling that Ferrari will be between the Mclarens and the Red Bulls in Monza. RB showed a short seventh gear in various races this year, let's hope they struggle a little bit this weekend. Thank god we did not have to wait for two weeks after Spa :clap:

#35 ViMaMo

ViMaMo
  • Member

  • 5,020 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:56

Most went for downforce, with Button and Alonso among the exceptions.


:mad: at Romain !! Alonso could have been on 2nd or podium in Spa.

#36 Gintonious

Gintonious
  • Member

  • 968 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:29

Fingers crossed that we get a good race in this weekend with nice points, we doubt victory, but we did the same at many other tracks, yet our man with the plan still delivers.

#37 Seanspeed

Seanspeed
  • Member

  • 14,224 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:07

I haven't noticed any problems on specific tires. Everyone was weak on the option tires in Silverstone. Alonso stood out because he took them on for the last stint, which was contrary to most top competitor's strategies.

Massa wasn't good on the options in Spa because he's Massa.

#38 Jon83

Jon83
  • Member

  • 1,660 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 12:25

If Alonso can beat Vettel and Hamilton, I'll be happy.

#39 jstrains

jstrains
  • Member

  • 1,449 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 06 September 2012 - 13:09

First impressions from Monza on AMS

Posted Image

Posted Image

Advertisement

#40 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 16:14

I haven't noticed any problems on specific tires. Everyone was weak on the option tires in Silverstone. Alonso stood out because he took them on for the last stint, which was contrary to most top competitor's strategies.

Massa wasn't good on the options in Spa because he's Massa.

And Massa was fine on the options in the first stint in Britain. i think back then it was either a setup issue (no dry running) or just bad timing, like you said.

“I am not worried and we have fitted parts we had used three or four races ago and for Monza, the aero package is any case unique as it is different to any other track. So it was always planned to change the car almost completely for this race.”


Italian GP - Alonso Preview.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 06 September 2012 - 17:30.


#41 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 3,972 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:44

Some pics of the F2012 today in Monza. Forza Ferrari!! :up:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 06 September 2012 - 17:50.


#42 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:44

http://www.formula1....2/d12ita475.jpg
Source: CrucialXtreme on F1tech.

I have not seen this before.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 06 September 2012 - 17:45.


#43 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 8,877 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:52

http://www.formula1....2/d12ita475.jpg
Source: CrucialXtreme on F1tech.

I have not seen this before.

Seen what before?

#44 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 3,972 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:56

http://www.formula1....2/d12ita475.jpg
Source: CrucialXtreme on F1tech.

I have not seen this before.


If you're talking about what I think you are, it's only because the monkey seat is missing. The slot in the beam win has been on the car since Barcelona best I can tell. Didn't see it in any China or Bahrain pics. It also was on the 150 Italia last year. Let's hope the Monza spec package works & works well. :)

#45 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:59

If you're talking about what I think you are, it's only because the monkey seat is missing. The slot in the beam win has been on the car since Barcelona best I can tell. Didn't see it in any China or Bahrain pics. It also was on the 150 Italia last year. Let's hope the Monza spec package works & works well. :)

it doesn't look the same, does it? Good to have you back btw. :up:

#46 Gintonious

Gintonious
  • Member

  • 968 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:00

Is the front wing new? As in not used in Spa?

#47 CrucialXtreme

CrucialXtreme
  • Member

  • 3,972 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:03

it doesn't look the same, does it? Good to have you back btw. :up:


I think it's the same mate. Here's a pic from Spain and they look quite similar. Thanks, it's good to be back. Now for Ferrari to "come back" to top step of podium. :up:

Spain
http://img824.images...rakedetail2.png



Edited by CrucialXtreme, 06 September 2012 - 18:18.


#48 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 3,904 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:14

yes, it does look similar. will be busy tomorrow, hope I can stay up to date on how practise goes.
Ferrari has to be competitive here. good results here and in Singapore will be a massive massive boost.

#49 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 1,184 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:31

Is the front wing new? As in not used in Spa?


Monza spec FW - Won't be used anywhere else.

#50 DonaldDuck

DonaldDuck
  • Member

  • 299 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 06 September 2012 - 19:23

I like the Monza iteration of the FW.