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Ferrari F2012 - Part III


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#1551 ATM_Andy

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 07:01

It's nice to know we can rely on very good tunnel from time to time. I'm sure it's been an important reference point for others too.


Yes, several teams use it, for now at least.

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#1552 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 16:19

I don't know why one would read it like that. Have I missed something?

Autosport writer: "Ferrari's team boss Stefano Domenicali has made the decision to shut it down during the winter until the problems are fixed."
Quoted LdM: "Domenicali has reached a conclusion: to shut down our wind tunnel for a while and do our tests elsewhere, in order to verify and re-calibrate everything. It will take time. I don't know whether this will happen in December or January, it's up to him: I have absolute faith in Domenicali."


Does it mean they haven't shut the tunnel down yet?

#1553 RedOne

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 16:52

Does it mean they haven't shut the tunnel down yet?


"Ferrari have switched their wind tunnel usage to the Toyota factory in Cologne

#1554 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:14

Does it mean they haven't shut the tunnel down yet?


I can't see how to interpret it any other way, it seems very clear to me. But I am open to suggestions :)


#1555 Szoelloe

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:21

I can't see how to interpret it any other way, it seems very clear to me. But I am open to suggestions :)


AFAIK LdM has said Domenicali decided to shut down the tunnel after the season ended. That should mean they are still using it for certain tasks, while doing work elswhere too. He said exactly when is up to Domenicali to decide. December and january were mentioned if I remember correctly?


#1556 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:43

AFAIK LdM has said Domenicali decided to shut down the tunnel after the season ended. That should mean they are still using it for certain tasks, while doing work elswhere too. He said exactly when is up to Domenicali to decide. December and january were mentioned if I remember correctly?


Thanks for helping me out. That's why I wasn't sure whether they have already shut is down or they were just about to close it.

#1557 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:43

AFAIK LdM has said Domenicali decided to shut down the tunnel after the season ended. That should mean they are still using it for certain tasks, while doing work elswhere too. He said exactly when is up to Domenicali to decide. December and january were mentioned if I remember correctly?


Yes, it was quoted just a few posts up:

Autosport writer: "Ferrari's team boss Stefano Domenicali has made the decision to shut it down during the winter until the problems are fixed."
Quoted LdM: "Domenicali has reached a conclusion: to shut down our wind tunnel for a while and do our tests elsewhere, in order to verify and re-calibrate everything. It will take time. I don't know whether this will happen in December or January, it's up to him: I have absolute faith in Domenicali."



#1558 Szoelloe

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:46

Yes, it was quoted just a few posts up:


oops. sorry for not reading back.


#1559 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 20:57

oops. sorry for not reading back.


So we are still there. One source says it is up to Stefano when to shut down the tunnel, but the other source says they have already closed it (skysport).

Edited by FerrariAlonso, 03 October 2012 - 20:57.


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#1560 Szoelloe

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 21:11

So we are still there. One source says it is up to Stefano when to shut down the tunnel, but the other source says they have already closed it (skysport).



Sky does not say they shut down the tunnel. I'd go with what LdM says. But does it really matter if it is shut down or not? If it is producing erratic results, they do the majority of the tunnel work elsewhere anyway. I assume the the tunnel itself only needs some mods to and a re-calibration, because if not, and it has a major flaw, and needs to be ditched, than it is irrelevant when it will be shut down, since Ferrari would need a new one?

#1561 crespo

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 21:20

Any news on car updates? I'm really intrigued to find out what'll happen with Macca's and RB's alleged "tilt wings". Hopefully that played a big part in the recent performance gap and getting it banned could help us claw back some of the performance difference. Suzuka seems like a track where they could really benefit from it.

#1562 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 21:38

"Ferrari have switched their wind tunnel usage to the Toyota factory in Cologne,"

Switiching to something usually means you abandon something for something else, that's why I supposed they shut down.
Although you have right in the sense there is no point in crying over split milk. Important is to get rid of the issues and get back to work as soon as possible in our own tunnel.

#1563 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 21:54

:blush:

"Ferrari have switched their wind tunnel usage to the Toyota factory in Cologne,"

Switiching to something usually means you abandon something for something else, that's why I supposed they shut down.
Although you have right in the sense there is no point in crying over split milk. Important is to get rid of the issues and get back to work as soon as possible in our own tunnel.

Agreed but mate the problem is that the team have had ongoing issues with the Maranello tunnel for years now and there is no quick fix. If Ferrari want to win the WDC & possibly the WCC, they must(and have) quit using the tunnel in Maranello and use the Toyota tunnel. They can try and fix it after the season like they did after 2011 but really they should demolish it and build a new one.

But for Fernando to win the WDC, they have to bring upgrades to the F2012 that work & that won't happen if they use the Ferrari tunnel in Maranello. Forza Ferrari! :up:


#1564 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 22:00

Best decision IMO. Toyota's wind tunnel is apparently amazing, and along with Sauber's, the best in the world.
People talk about Saubers amazing car, well the reason they have got that car is their wind tunnel when that is the most important form of testing now, and the levelling off of budgets.

Their budget might be small, but you could argue their resources are just as big as some big teams like Mercedes. That is not taking credit away from them, they have done an amazing job.

#1565 medeni73

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:22

Suzuka 2012

http://img1.auto-mot...1acb-634443.jpg

#1566 Massa

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 07:27

http://www.f1zone.ne...r-return/16000/

Autosprint magazine claims that Ferrari did not actually rate the 22-year-old Mexican overly highly, after Jules Bianchi went almost half a second faster in their most recent head-to-head test last September.


Interesting.

#1567 topical

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:42

Interesting.


Yes, very interesting. I am also not convinced by Perez and expect McLaren to have their weakest driver line up next year for a long time. Which of course is good news for Ferrari.

Anyone think McLaren and Red Bull will get their front wings clipped this weekend? Or are Ferrari bringing anything to this race (the new rear wing?) that actually gives hope for improved performance without having to rely on other teams getting their innovations banned?

Edited by topical, 04 October 2012 - 08:42.


#1568 Bartel

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 08:58

http://www.f1zone.ne...r-return/16000/



Interesting.

Perez is 10 times the driver Bianchi is. To me, Bianchi is an overhyped, early bloomer who looked good early on but is nothing more than mediocre. The fact that no team has his bum in their seat confirms this to me. That talk of not rating Perez highly and Bianchi being half a second faster is nonsense. Ferrari PR for covering up letting Perez go drive for McLaren, but then, of course theyre doing to act like losing him was minor. If Vettel really isnt going to Ferrari in '14 like I believe he isn't, then to me Ferrari have made a major cock up, why not give Bianchi a 1 year deal next year if hes that good? Then farm him off to Sauber the following year when Vettel is meant to arrive? Simple, they rate Massa higher than Bianchi and that is alarming for someone trying to get a seat

#1569 Massa

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:10

Ferrari knows Perez better than anyone bar Sauber. So if it was that good, he would be a Ferrari driver for next year. They have data, some data that Mclaren doesn't have, so when Di Montezemolo says that Perez is not ready for Ferrari, that just mean that Perez is not fast enough. I think Ferrari is not silly to have data and let a suepr driver go at Mclaren.

And Bianchi have far more achievement in lower formula than Perez, who did nothing before now.
For Vettel, for me, it's already done, Vettel at Ferrari it's like Alonso at Ferrari in the past, everybody knows that it's done.

Back to the topic, i think the car will work great this weekend, i expect a strong result for both car.

Edited by Massa, 04 October 2012 - 09:10.


#1570 emby1999

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 09:17

How can the likes of sauber, and all other teams have perfectly working wind tunnels, yet Ferrari's is so bad they need to shut it down, after years of under performance from the team? I fear Alonso will waste the rest of his years with these incompetents.

#1571 kosmos

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:16

Perez is 10 times the driver Bianchi is. To me, Bianchi is an overhyped,


Be careful, maye you will be saying the same about Perez in two years time.

#1572 Pyrone89

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 10:27

Seriously, just give Toyota a blank cheque for that tunnel so we can buy it from them and have it be a Ferrari property. Then we have enough time to build a new tunnel in Maranello so that in the future the aero boys can go and live in Maranello again.

Ohh and for your information, it is a big drive. It is near to the Dutch border, actually pretty near to me. It is probably a 1 hour drive for me (noo, I am not going to go there and check up on them :rolleyes: )

Edited by Pyrone89, 04 October 2012 - 10:28.


#1573 Ferrari2183

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 16:04

Perez is 10 times the driver Bianchi is. To me, Bianchi is an overhyped, early bloomer who looked good early on but is nothing more than mediocre. The fact that no team has his bum in their seat confirms this to me. That talk of not rating Perez highly and Bianchi being half a second faster is nonsense. Ferrari PR for covering up letting Perez go drive for McLaren, but then, of course theyre doing to act like losing him was minor. If Vettel really isnt going to Ferrari in '14 like I believe he isn't, then to me Ferrari have made a major cock up, why not give Bianchi a 1 year deal next year if hes that good? Then farm him off to Sauber the following year when Vettel is meant to arrive? Simple, they rate Massa higher than Bianchi and that is alarming for someone trying to get a seat

As you're a McLaren fan I think you're saying this more out of hope than anything else. Which is ok, but if you think that Ferrari would let an exceptional driver slip through their fingers then you're mistaken.

Anyway, we won't have to wait long to see just how weak Perez is.

#1574 f1rules

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 16:10

just like ferrari would have interest in leaking info that they where not overly impressed, if they where caught with their pants down, but yes we will know soon enough

#1575 SCUDmissile

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 17:52

As you're a McLaren fan I think you're saying this more out of hope than anything else. Which is ok, but if you think that Ferrari would let an exceptional driver slip through their fingers then you're mistaken.

Anyway, we won't have to wait long to see just how weak Perez is.

:up:

Thing is, McLaren have taken a big punt on Perez. I think he will do well, but there is an air of unpredictability about it.

On topic, rumours are that Ferrari have quite a few parts here, but we haven't seen many pics today have we?
It is interesting, as normally there is a massive page of new pics for us to spot new parts from.

#1576 toxicfusion

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 18:04

How can the likes of sauber, and all other teams have perfectly working wind tunnels, yet Ferrari's is so bad they need to shut it down, after years of under performance from the team? I fear Alonso will waste the rest of his years with these incompetents.



Ferrari have seemingly struggled with their tunnel since the models were scaled down.

Don't know if that's troubled them, but I think the scaling down happened in 2009, and they've never really been on top of things since.

#1577 Ferrari2183

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 18:15

Ferrari have seemingly struggled with their tunnel since the models were scaled down.

Don't know if that's troubled them, but I think the scaling down happened in 2009, and they've never really been on top of things since.

This is what I think too. Everytime they rescale they run into problems... First the 50% and now the 60%.

#1578 RedOne

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 18:41

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#1579 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 20:01

just like ferrari would have interest in leaking info that they where not overly impressed, if they where caught with their pants down, but yes we will know soon enough


It seems inconceivable to me that the contract of a member of the Ferrari Driver Academy would not give the Scuderia first dibs.


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#1580 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 20:12

A bit of comparison material for when we freak out when an update does not work. Lotus Suzuka preview with James Allison:

HOW DIFFICULT IS IT INTRODUCING AND VALIDATING UPGRADES WITH NO TESTING AND WEATHER CAUSING REDUCED RUNNING ON A FRIDAY ?
The simulation methods in the factory are good, allowing around 70% - 80% of the upgrades that we put on the car to work straight away with no problem. Of those that suffer birth pangs, a fair proportion are eventually found to perform as expected when given a second hearing.


Edited by KnucklesAgain, 04 October 2012 - 20:12.


#1581 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 20:22

Posted Image


I bet this is a new front wing. Is it the one wich has been tested so many times in July, but haven't been raced yet?

#1582 Bartel

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 21:26

As you're a McLaren fan I think you're saying this more out of hope than anything else. Which is ok, but if you think that Ferrari would let an exceptional driver slip through their fingers then you're mistaken.

Anyway, we won't have to wait long to see just how weak Perez is.

Prost. Kimi in 2001. My position has nothing to do with hope, just as you think Perez is weak, I think he can be quite good. So it can go either way, but my stance on Bianchi remains unchanged, he is mediocre. He was dubbed the next big thing what, 3 or 4 years ago? Still hasn't even a drive in 1 race. I think the Ferrari driver academy is a waste of time if they keep drivers that they dont even rate good enough for a drive in F1. As I said above, get rid of Massa, stick Bianchi in the car for 1 season and see how he goes, if he fails like I think he would, farm him off or just plain oust him.

#1583 fabr68

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 22:23

Prost. Kimi in 2001. My position has nothing to do with hope, just as you think Perez is weak, I think he can be quite good. So it can go either way, but my stance on Bianchi remains unchanged, he is mediocre. He was dubbed the next big thing what, 3 or 4 years ago? Still hasn't even a drive in 1 race. I think the Ferrari driver academy is a waste of time if they keep drivers that they dont even rate good enough for a drive in F1. As I said above, get rid of Massa, stick Bianchi in the car for 1 season and see how he goes, if he fails like I think he would, farm him off or just plain oust him.


Ok, come here to moan about Ferrari letting Perez go while Mclaren let Hamilton go?

:rotfl:

You guys are quite funny

#1584 AlexS

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 22:27

The simulation methods in the factory are good, allowing around 70% - 80% of the upgrades that we put on the car to work straight away with no problem. Of those that suffer birth pangs, a fair proportion are eventually found to perform as expected when given a second hearing.


That isn't the whole picture, also matters is if the more significant upgrades have problems.

#1585 Bartel

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 22:46

Ok, come here to moan about Ferrari letting Perez go while Mclaren let Hamilton go?

:rotfl:

You guys are quite funny

Im not moaning at all, i replied to a false statement and wanted to give my two cents on Ferrari's apparent quote to Autosprint. But go on twist whatever it is you have to twist.

#1586 BorkoF2012

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 23:07

I am actually happy they did not sign Perez. He might be a good driver in a few years, but right now I'd say he is just a great tyre "keeper". He has one trick, doesn't qualify for Q3, on a race day he is always on a different strategy then the rest of the drivers, starts on fresh tyres, manages them really well, and sometimes his strategy works, sometimes it doesn't. If this is still Bridgestone era, Kobayashi would almost certainly have a lot better results than Perez and more points than him.

#1587 fabr68

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 23:46

Im not moaning at all, i replied to a false statement and wanted to give my two cents on Ferrari's apparent quote to Autosprint. But go on twist whatever it is you have to twist.


You were saying that the Ferrari academy is a waste of time. That sounded a little like moaning to me. It is like saying that Mclaren should not support any young talent because they will end up letting them go eventually.

Ferrari has their reasons and data to hold off on hiring Perez. They know their car and they know how Massa's and Perez's telemetry look like. They have not said they will never hire him, just not now. This is not a reason why they should scrap their driver programs. Having their drivers gain a few seasons in F1 before hiring them is not outrageous. How many years in F1 did Schumacher, Raikkonen, Alonso spend before they joned Ferrari?



#1588 CF22

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Posted 04 October 2012 - 23:47

I'm also quite happy Ferrari did not sign Perez, don't get me wrong, he's a nice guy and all but I never saw him as fast. I see some Rosberg in him, pretty forgettable, though I'm happy for him he's at McLaren and wish him the best. On the other hand I think Ferrari is going the right way with Hulkenberg or Di Resta, for some reason I think these two have what it takes to be a Ferrari driver, they could possibly be conditioned for the long term (if Vettel doesn't sign for 2014), it's only my opinion.

#1589 Ferrari2183

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:16

Ferrari's once again losing bucket loads of time in the second sector with the tight slow turns... As expected the car is mega through the esses.

#1590 Mackey

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:39

Is that 33.7 in S1 a mistake? Neither driver could even get close to the that time after Alonso posted it in his first lap. Either way the car looks a handful again, oversteering like crazy


#1591 HPT

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:45

Is that 33.7 in S1 a mistake? Neither driver could even get close to the that time after Alonso posted it in his first lap. Either way the car looks a handful again, oversteering like crazy


Didn't manage to catch FP1. I read the McLarens look like they're on rails. How are the bulls looking so far?

#1592 TifosiUSA

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 02:52

Hopefully Ferrari was doing heavier fuel runs? Car didn't look very good.

#1593 Hanzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:35

Marc Gene said Fernando was complaining on the radio about oversteer,(as expected), and he said tyre degradation was very high.

#1594 Bartel

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:37

Ferrari's once again losing bucket loads of time in the second sector with the tight slow turns... As expected the car is mega through the esses.

mega sideways through the esses

#1595 rsaca

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:38

I'm extremely worried that Alonso was testing the rear wing and he fell way behind Massa. Ferrari have to step their game up, this is crunch time, and so far they haven't dissappointed me.

Good thing was that Vettel was 17th. Also, practice doesn't tell you much but it's a good idea of who's fighting for pole. Hopefully they were doing long-runs plus looking for the optimal set-up.

#1596 Ferrari2183

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 03:49

I'm extremely worried that Alonso was testing the rear wing and he fell way behind Massa. Ferrari have to step their game up, this is crunch time, and so far they haven't dissappointed me.

Good thing was that Vettel was 17th. Also, practice doesn't tell you much but it's a good idea of who's fighting for pole. Hopefully they were doing long-runs plus looking for the optimal set-up.

That rear wing should be sent to the trash can. It is the second race in succession that it completely messes up the balance.

#1597 kosmos

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:09

The team concentrated on comparing different aerodynamic configurations to assess the small updates brought to the Japanese track.



#1598 CF22

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:17

Updates not working as expected?

#1599 Ferrari2183

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 04:48

Updates not working as expected?

I couldn't see too well but I think they put the Singapore wing on towards the end of FP1 with the flow vis and the car looked terrible. Very twitchy in some areas of the track.

They really have to step development up now.

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#1600 Hanzo

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 05:06

Gene: The team have a more clear idea now, and rear wing will be tested now.