Jump to content


Photo

Ferrari F2012 - Part III


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
4052 replies to this topic

#1601 emby1999

emby1999
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:11

Looks like another weekend where we will be fighting with saubers, williams and force india's. Looks like we have fallen behind even force india now. Heads really need to roll because this kind of incompetence can no longer be tolerated. When Mclaren produced turkeys in 2004, and 2009, by mid season they had transformed the car into front runners, yet the current Ferrari engineers are clearly unable to understand how to make a fast F1 car under the current regulations and seem totally lost, and just fumble around tickering around the edges with Updates that don't even work, the same old story every weekend. I can't see how things will improve next year, this is really worrying. Frye and Domincelli just talk and talk about understanding the problems and needing to work harder but nothing improves. Its no use working hard if you lack ability.

Advertisement

#1602 ferrarijon123

ferrarijon123
  • Member

  • 851 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:27

Looks like another weekend where we will be fighting with saubers, williams and force india's. Looks like we have fallen behind even force india now. Heads really need to roll because this kind of incompetence can no longer be tolerated. When Mclaren produced turkeys in 2004, and 2009, by mid season they had transformed the car into front runners, yet the current Ferrari engineers are clearly unable to understand how to make a fast F1 car under the current regulations and seem totally lost, and just fumble around tickering around the edges with Updates that don't even work, the same old story every weekend. I can't see how things will improve next year, this is really worrying. Frye and Domincelli just talk and talk about understanding the problems and needing to work harder but nothing improves. Its no use working hard if you lack ability.

I disagree, Webber and Hulkenberg's times were set when the track was quicker. Hamilton and Vettel's times in relation to Alonso's are more realistic.

#1603 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:30

The WDc is gone. Alonso is fighting for 7th place, Lewis and Vettel for the win.

#1604 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 7,410 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:34

We look like always, on the back foot. Let's hope they can improve a little and with our good race pace maybe we can aim higher than 7th place, despite seahawk opinion.

#1605 emby1999

emby1999
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:39

I disagree, Webber and Hulkenberg's times were set when the track was quicker. Hamilton and Vettel's times in relation to Alonso's are more realistic.


Think you are being overly optimistic. The track couldn't have improved that much in that short space of time. Alonso lost 3 tenths in s2 to Nico which is enormous. Can't win the title with that sort of pace, we just need to rely on Hamilton and Vettel breaking down or having accidents. Really sad.

#1606 Claudiu

Claudiu
  • Member

  • 205 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:39

Based on FP2 times we are much closer to McLaren & RedBull than Singapore < 0.5s which is good because there were not a lot of tracks this year where we where within half of second of the fastest car.

#1607 topical

topical
  • Member

  • 2,301 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:42

Looks like another weekend of aiming to qualify on the 3rd row and then hoping Alonso's rivals crash or break down in the race so he can hold on to the championship lead. I've maintained my optimism well at the last few races but Suzuka is a track where Ferrari are supposed to go well so if they struggle as badly here as they did at Singapore then they really are in trouble and the only thing left that can save Alonso is rain.

#1608 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:44

We look like always, on the back foot. Let's hope they can improve a little and with our good race pace maybe we can aim higher than 7th place, despite seahawk opinion.


The problem is, RBR and Macca are way ahead on all tracks as it seems. If it would be a one time fluke, I would not worry, but it looks as if RBR and Macca are ahead with the FI, Sauber and maybe Merc catching up to Ferrari. There will be races where those teams won´t make mistakes and both RBRs and Maccas will end up ahead, with maybe a FI, Sauber or Merc (or more) infront of Alonso. Speedwiese 5th place is the best Ferrari could do.

#1609 tifosii

tifosii
  • Member

  • 35 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:45

it seems another difficult weekend..sigh

#1610 HPT

HPT
  • Member

  • 1,224 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:49

So Korea is 7 days away and I assume the car will be relatively unchanged. This can't be good for the WDC. Sigh.

#1611 ArkZ

ArkZ
  • Member

  • 594 posts
  • Joined: June 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:51

This is not good i can understand that F2012 is shit in bumpy, slow tracks, but the car "is build around this track" and we should be team to beat here....

#1612 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,413 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:52

Doom and gloom again. The race is Sunday, not before. It's not a news that the car is handfull with empty tank. We, once again, will see a car very fast with the full tank, on race condition. Alonso will be on podium sunday.

#1613 emby1999

emby1999
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:55

This is not good i can understand that F2012 is shit in bumpy, slow tracks, but the car "is build around this track" and we should be team to beat here....


The F2012 being especially strong on high speed corners was pretty much a myth. Relative to its pathetic low speed performance, its much stronger in the high speed stuff, but relative to the rest of the grid its still nothing special in high speed corners, just competent and holds its own. If it was a rocket ship in the high speed stuff, then it could make up for the poor low speed performance but it can't.

#1614 Frank

Frank
  • Member

  • 192 posts
  • Joined: November 99

Posted 05 October 2012 - 06:56

Again we are slow in those slow to medium corners...nothing really changes much since summer break. Alonso needs to win and not only on podiums.

#1615 walkindude

walkindude
  • Member

  • 867 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:17

I don't know which one will hurt more.The loss in Abudhabbi 2010 or the slow eroding away of the points lead which it looks like will happen from now on.FFS Ferrari get your shit together ! Though I do not have a lot of hope because their wind tunnel is a piece of shit and all the updates till the end of the year will have come from that.

#1616 sock22

sock22
  • Member

  • 406 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:33

Not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. It looks like Alonso can still manage fifth on the grid, which would become fourth with Button's penalty. Unless Vettel wins I can't imagine Alonso's lead will take too much of a hit here and that's before you factor in any dramas. The Ferrari looked like a handful in Singapore as well, yet Alonso got a podium.

#1617 RedF1

RedF1
  • Member

  • 135 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:34

:wave:

Its amazing how every race weekend the performance of Ferrari during FP1 and FP2 is getting a lot of F1 fans shaking and trembling all over again and again. Points are given on Sundays only. Almost every race Alonso is on the podium.

His Ferrari is leading the WDC for almost all of the 14 F1 races so far.... and still some people seem to be frustrated because Ferrari and FA arent on top of the practice time tables...

Dont think we are doing that bad at all; in FP2 FA is behind SV just 0.257s and 0.386s behind LH !

Is it really that hard to give SF some credit, knowing what has been done and achieved so far with the F2012 in 2012?

Edited by RedF1, 05 October 2012 - 07:35.


#1618 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,413 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:36

+1.

The car is fast on race condition only. The F2012 is like that and it will not change. So if Alonso finish 7th on Sunday, yes it will be worrying, but now it's friday, so no need to cry like that. It's really annoying to read that at each race, on friday and saturday.

#1619 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:40

The 3rd place in Singapore was lucky. I doubt luck will bring the WDC.

Advertisement

#1620 emby1999

emby1999
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:44

:wave:

Its amazing how every race weekend the performance of Ferrari during FP1 and FP2 is getting a lot of F1 fans shaking and trembling all over again and again. Points are given on Sundays only. Almost every race Alonso is on the podium.


Lucky podiums are not enough with Hamilton and Vettel consistently beating him. There have been very few weekends when even Alonso has scored a podium on merit, because most of the time his rivals stuff up. You can't rely on that good fortune over 20 races, I fear his luck will run out in the last race. I think Vettel is the big danger.

#1621 medeni73

medeni73
  • Member

  • 342 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:46

Among other thing Alonso said yesterday: "...So we must make no mistakes in the last six, keep calm and bring home as many points as possible on Sunday: sometimes we will be fourth, sometimes second. ..."
Even himself knows that with this car we CANT win one race this season and 2nd or 4th is just what it is: luck or Alonsos ability to make magic out of dog...

#1622 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,413 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:48

The 3rd place in Singapore was lucky. I doubt luck will bring the WDC.


Lucky podiums are not enough with Hamilton and Vettel consistently beating him. There have been very few weekends when even Alonso has scored a podium on merit, because most of the time his rivals stuff up. You can't rely on that good fortune over 20 races, I fear his luck will run out in the last race. I think Vettel is the big danger.




Yes the luck. :rolleyes:

It's just show that the Scuderia Ferrari is the best team this year, few mistakes, great strategy choices, very good reliability with more fresh engines than others. It's not the luck if the Scuderia Ferrari is the best team.

Edited by Massa, 05 October 2012 - 07:49.


#1623 FerrariAlonso

FerrariAlonso
  • Member

  • 409 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:51

Now it is clear:
Stefano disclosed they haven't shut down the tunnel yet, they are woking in both simultaneously.

#1624 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,413 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:54

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103080

#1625 emby1999

emby1999
  • Member

  • 62 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 07:58

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103080


We heard this one year ago, so the question is who is responsible for Ferrari's most critical tool being so outdated, unlike the other top teams? someone must held to account, these constant excuses are out of date.

#1626 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,944 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:06

A driver can only do so much. If this is Ferrari's true pace for the rest of the season, than, even with Alonso, we aren't winning. As a Ferrari fan, this remainder of the season is very nerve-racking. I don’t even know how exactly we got up there in the championship.


#1627 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:16

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103080

Sad state of affairs... Just bulldoze the damned thing and build a new one.

Alonso can probably kiss this championship goodbye because they still haven't defined a strategy with regard to updates for the rest of season (They're in the process of doing so).

#1628 Gintonious

Gintonious
  • Member

  • 1,035 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:17

Not a positive sign really, this close to the end of the championship and we are really falling behind in the developement race.

I fear we are slipping away from the WDC :(

#1629 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:20

Not a positive sign really, this close to the end of the championship and we are really falling behind in the developement race.

I fear we are slipping away from the WDC :(

Yeah, it looks like it's drive and hope for the best now... Really frustrating, but the signs were there from the beginning of the campaign already when it seemed they were developing the car on the fly.

#1630 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 7,410 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:26

Some people don't get it, Alonso is always on the podium is not enough anymore, we need wins or at least the possibilty to fight for them, dragging the car to third because 1 driver from McLaren and RB can't finish or have a bad weekend is not going to end in us winning the title. And Stefano thinks the same:

"We cannot rely only being third or fourth, we need to make sure we can win a race and then we see what is the situation with the others."


And yes, it's only FP2, buy there is a trend here, something that can't be denied and there is nothing bad if we recognize it.

#1631 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:28

Some people don't get it, Alonso is always on the podium is not enough anymore, we need wins or at least the possibilty to fight for them, dragging the car to third because 1 driver from McLaren and RB can't finish or have a bad weekend is not going to end in us winning the title. And Stefano thinks the same:



And yes, it's only FP2, buy there is a trend here, something that can't be denied and there is nothing bad if we recognize it.

Agreed. At least Massa's long runs were decent enough.

#1632 Mr.Wayne

Mr.Wayne
  • Member

  • 572 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:36

Sad state of affairs... Just bulldoze the damned thing and build a new one.

Alonso can probably kiss this championship goodbye because they still haven't defined a strategy with regard to updates for the rest of season (They're in the process of doing so).

They have been blaming the wind tunnel since the second half of 2004... That excuse, imo, is getting a bit old.


#1633 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:38

They have been blaming the wind tunnel since the second half of 2004... That excuse, imo, is getting a bit old.

It may be old for you but it is a problem nonetheless.

Ferrari have fallen back horribly since the break where at one stage they were consistently challenging for wins and podiums on merit.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 05 October 2012 - 08:44.


#1634 prty

prty
  • Member

  • 5,218 posts
  • Joined: April 05

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:42

Some people don't get it, Alonso is always on the podium is not enough anymore, we need wins or at least the possibilty to fight for them, dragging the car to third because 1 driver from McLaren and RB can't finish or have a bad weekend is not going to end in us winning the title


Indeed.

#1635 Gintonious

Gintonious
  • Member

  • 1,035 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:44

We need a miracle or a kick up the arse, or both, I'll really lose faith in the team if we throw this away!

#1636 Mr.Wayne

Mr.Wayne
  • Member

  • 572 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:46

It may be old for you but it is a problem nonetheless.

Ferrari have fallen back horribly since the break where at one stage they consistently challenging for wins and podiums on merit.

IF they have been having problems with the windtunnel since the second half of 2004, then you would have expect that a team of their resources would have had done something about it by now.

Interestingly enough, the wind tunnel is the first one to blame when they are not at the sharp end of the grid, yet they have had top class contenders like in 2006 (although reliability lost them the title), 2007, 2008 (again, reliability lost them the title), 2010 (when Alonso's myriad of errors in the first half of the season + horrible strategy at Abu Dhabi lost them the title) and now this 2012.

Remember, this is the same wind tunnel they were using when they were racing in Valencia, Silverstone and Germany, yet, once again, it is the easy scapegoat.

#1637 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:53

What makes you think his rivals won't continue to mess things up? There's no sign of that abating so far and we're into the stage of the season where unreliability can become even more of an issue

#1638 Ferrari2183

Ferrari2183
  • Member

  • 9,475 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:58

IF they have been having problems with the windtunnel since the second half of 2004, then you would have expect that a team of their resources would have had done something about it by now.

Interestingly enough, the wind tunnel is the first one to blame when they are not at the sharp end of the grid, yet they have had top class contenders like in 2006 (although reliability lost them the title), 2007, 2008 (again, reliability lost them the title), 2010 (when Alonso's myriad of errors in the first half of the season + horrible strategy at Abu Dhabi lost them the title) and now this 2012.

Remember, this is the same wind tunnel they were using when they were racing in Valencia, Silverstone and Germany, yet, once again, it is the easy scapegoat.

Well Mr. In 2004 and all the others bar 2010 they still had unlimited testing... You cannot compare these eras and it seems to me like you're writing it off as an excuse and not valid reasoning. Furthermore, I'm struggling to recall Ferrari blaming the wind tunnel for their all conquering F2004...

Also, the updates brought from Valencia onwards have been problematic so much so that Alonso came right out and said it. I've been saying it all season that Ferrari have been having correlation issues and nobody wanted to listen to me. Since winter testing it became apparent that they were developing the car based on track results and that's why the first package took so long to get on the car...

The only packages that worked right out of the box this year has been the Spain and Canada packages and those were tested extensively in Mugello.

#1639 Gintonious

Gintonious
  • Member

  • 1,035 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 08:59

What makes you think his rivals won't continue to mess things up? There's no sign of that abating so far and we're into the stage of the season where unreliability can become even more of an issue


Simply can't rely on that, thats all circumstantial, if they keep tripping over each other then so be it, but it would be more reliable having a race winning car and genuinely being able to get maximum points of our own accord.

Advertisement

#1640 BorkoF2012

BorkoF2012
  • Member

  • 954 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:01

This is the track that should suit F2012 the best out of all remaining races. I am wondering if this is the best track, how painful is going to be for us to watch all remaining races after Suzuka. It's probably over now, but something needs to happen. I am sorry to say, but these people are obviosly not capable to deliver a winning car. Something needs to change after this season ends if the title isn't won, and chances for that are decreasing race after race.

#1641 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:05

Simply can't rely on that, thats all circumstantial, if they keep tripping over each other then so be it, but it would be more reliable having a race winning car and genuinely being able to get maximum points of our own accord.


Sure he can't rely on it, just don't think its continuance can be dismissed out of hand. If vettel dnf'd again this weekend and Alonso gets on the podium then the gap is up to 40 odd points again.

Personally I think it has been written since the start of the season that ham, vet and Alo will arrive in brazil with an almost equal chance to win the dc...

#1642 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 665 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:08

This race could be quite interesting and a lot will depend on our long run pace relative to the other guys, which lets face it is very strong on most circuits. If Alonso can qualify p4 and get a decent start he could well fight for a podium, but I'm not expecting much more.

Bah.

#1643 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:13

If vet gets pole, ham 2nd and vet tries to repeat his move on button last season I'd expect an almighty shunt into turn 1!

#1644 Nitropower

Nitropower
  • Member

  • 1,225 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:14

Hey people, don't forget it's a miracle that Alonso is leading the WDC by 29 points so far. Alonso's victories mostly relied on other people's failures: Malaysia was extremely fortunante, Valencia was a miracle, and Germany was in changing weather conditions. That speaks volumes about Alonso's value as a driver, but the fact is the car is mediocre and not a WDC contender per se.

What we need now is to accept it's most likely Vettel's again, and enjoy the rest of the races as long as there are possibilities. Good thing is Hamilton and Vettel will take points from each other. The only good thing. But let's enjoy racing and see what we can do, if the miracle comes true.

#1645 Massa

Massa
  • Member

  • 4,413 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:18

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103092

"Overall, the feeling is good and I don't think the high temperatures can constitute a problem for the tyres," the championship leader said.



#1646 Mackey

Mackey
  • Member

  • 1,415 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:21

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103080


Oh God the same old story... it´s like having the same nightmare every fu***g day :mad: :mad: :mad:

This was supposed to be fixed a long time ago, they must fire the person responsible ASAP


#1647 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:24

What would you consider the most unlikely event at the beginning of the season:

That Alonso would have a 29 point lead after 14 races
That he can hold on to that lead for 6 races

#1648 gramsy1977

gramsy1977
  • Member

  • 219 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:26

What would you consider the most unlikely event at the beginning of the season:

That Alonso would have a 29 point lead after 14 races
That he can hold on to that lead for 6 races

"We will always have Abu Dhabi"

#1649 superdelphinus

superdelphinus
  • Member

  • 1,483 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:30

I just think it shows something interesting about human psychology. It is/was far more unlikely for Alonso to be in the position he is in now, relative to what he has to do to stay there.

That said, personally I don't think he will win it in the end!

#1650 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,611 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 05 October 2012 - 09:30

Hey people, don't forget it's a miracle that Alonso is leading the WDC by 29 points so far. Alonso's victories mostly relied on other people's failures: Malaysia was extremely fortunante, Valencia was a miracle, and Germany was in changing weather conditions. That speaks volumes about Alonso's value as a driver, but the fact is the car is mediocre and not a WDC contender per se.

What we need now is to accept it's most likely Vettel's again, and enjoy the rest of the races as long as there are possibilities. Good thing is Hamilton and Vettel will take points from each other. The only good thing. But let's enjoy racing and see what we can do, if the miracle comes true.

Come on, Alonso was 2.5 tenths slower than Vettel and Hamilton in similar track conditions. Overall, he is 5th in FP2 - not 15th. Currently, it looks like they are much faster than Merc and very likely faster than Sauber, Williams etc., especially on race day. Button has a penalty. Overall, McLaren, Red Bull, Ferrari and Lotus are close when also including long runs. So, a race finish between 1 and 6 is likely. If you look at the betting odds after FP2 (where people actually put their money) Alonso is a 7 for a win with Hamilton at 3 and Vettel at 4. Everyone else is above 10. Even if Alonso finishes behind Hamilton and Vettel this weekend, that still doesn't mean he has lost the WDC. He is THE favourite for WDC at the moment.

If Hamilton and Vettel fans were that pessimistic, they wouldn't even dream of the WDC right now.