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Ferrari F2012 - Part III


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#101 Goron3

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 13:43

Alonso confirms it was just a practice gearbox so no penalty.

Massa says he is 'very happy with the car', which we haven't heard him say too often. Hopefully we'll see both of them in the top 5 qualy, knowing that the race pace is generally stronger.

Red Bull are the ones to watch though as they are closest to Alonso in the championship...hoping they'll struggle a bit, at least in qualy.

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#102 aray

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 13:49

if things go alright,we will fight pole against lewis and merc duo and in races these three plus kimi and button...

#103 RedOne

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 13:49

Thanks @RedOne good news :) .I have a feeling that Monza will be a good place to celebrate Alonso's 10th win with Ferrari , and maybe Massa will finally back on podium.


Yeah I would love that too but aslong as we finish on the podium infront of our nearest rivals (Vettel,Webber,Kimi) I will be pleased too. If we can qaulify well and with no more car issues and people crashing into us in the race we can fight for victory.

#104 Massa

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 13:52

Fastest car in S2 and S3 right ? It's looking good. I hope both cars will be in the first two row. Then, i think our race pace will be very good to fight for the win, or a double podium finish.

#105 PoleMan

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 14:06

Understatement of the season, but after last weekend, it would be oh, so NICE for Fernando and Felipe to get a 1-2 in Monza, with Schumi filling out the podium! :up:

I relish the thought of the WILD Tifosi reaction to that and the championship implications! :clap:

#106 kosmos

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 14:12

Fastest car in S2 and S3 right ? It's looking good. I hope both cars will be in the first two row. Then, i think our race pace will be very good to fight for the win, or a double podium finish.


Massa fastest in S3, Hamilton in S2 and Button in S1, but it's very very close, the F2012 is clearly the fastest in S3. We are 6 to 8 Km/h slower than the fastest on the speed trap.

#107 ArkZ

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 14:13

Well let's stay calm until chequered flag, but first signs are good .From combination of best sectors times are:
1 Felipe Massa Ferrari 1.25.179
2 Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1.25.192

Edited by ArkZ, 07 September 2012 - 14:14.


#108 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:00

New beam wing on the F2012 today in Monza

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#109 RedOne

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:05

What's this though ?

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#110 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:07

What's this though ?


That's the hydraulic line for the DRS actuator. :up:

#111 rsaca

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:10

Actually, I prefer to have tons of problems in Practice sessions than to have anything come up in Quali or Race. This is good because it will enable the engineers to sort things out before where it matters most. Therefore, I'm sure they will have an optimal set-up without any problems.

Alonso will make a statement in this race. Mark my words.

#112 RedOne

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:20

That's the hydraulic line for the DRS actuator. :up:


Thanks Crucial :-)

#113 skopi

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:21

That's the hydraulic line for the DRS actuator. :up:


really?..I thought that the DRS in the F2012 was electronically activated, that's why they had this bulge/lump in the middle of the rear wing, which is actually the electric motor...

#114 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:23

Thanks Crucial :-)


My pleasure. Let's hope the team gets the mechanical issues sorted because the F2012 looks pretty competitive. Fernando needs to get to the podium this weekend at the very least. Obviously a win would be much better but he must be consistent the rest of the year. Also nice to hear more confirmation yesterday of a large update package coming to the car soon.

@skopi nope all teams use hydraulic DRS :)

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 07 September 2012 - 15:24.


#115 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:23

really?..I thought that the DRS in the F2012 was electronically activated, that's why they had this bulge/lump in the middle of the rear wing, which is actually the electric motor...


Were the Ferraris' tmes on the hard or medium tyres?

#116 kosmos

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 15:57

Chat with Rivola starting in minutes.

http://live4fan.ferrari.com/videochat/

#117 Techcheat

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 16:27

really?..I thought that the DRS in the F2012 was electronically activated, that's why they had this bulge/lump in the middle of the rear wing, which is actually the electric motor...

Nope DRS is hydraulic as its much faster to open/close/operate than electronic. Things look good today. I would like Schumi to win this race and bow out to the Tifosi with a bang. All stars fade but they all deserve a gud farewell :)

#118 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 16:35

My pleasure. Let's hope the team gets the mechanical issues sorted because the F2012 looks pretty competitive. Fernando needs to get to the podium this weekend at the very least. Obviously a win would be much better but he must be consistent the rest of the year. Also nice to hear more confirmation yesterday of a large update package coming to the car soon.

@skopi nope all teams use hydraulic DRS :)

Crucial, who confirmed the large update? I must have missed that.

#119 SCUDmissile

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 17:11

Crucial, who confirmed the large update? I must have missed that.

Yeah, missed that as well. Good day today, Felipe was setting some nice times, but we have brought ourselves up many times only to have been let down on the saturday, so let's see what happens tomorrow

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#120 kosmos

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 17:15

I think he is talking about the Singapore update.

#121 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 17:43

I think he is talking about the Singapore update.

I gather that as well but I haven't heard any team members confirm this. There is a lot of speculation regarding a big Singapore update.

#122 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 18:00

The mirrors on the cars are also different.

#123 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 18:08

Crucial, who confirmed the large update? I must have missed that.


Well, it was confirmation in my opinion. During the press conference yesterday Fernando was asked if there was time for a large update package for Ferrari to make a big jump in performance like McLaren did recently. He said yes for sure, that's it's coming. Sooner or later.

Q: (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) Fernando, Felipe, in Barcelona and in Montreal, you had great changes to your car and Ferrari made a great step forward. You have regularly said you are now eight tenths slower than the fastest car. Is there room for a new package from Ferrari to make it similar to McLaren, for example?


FA: I think so. I think there are still three months of competition. There are still eight races to go, so all the teams bring some updates to every race. We just need to make ours work a little bit better than the others. In February or March we were more than a second behind the front runners, and then around Barcelona or Canada we were two or three tenths. In two or three months you can make a lot of progress. We just need to be clear on that and make some good steps which I'm sure and confident will arrive sooner or later.

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#124 jstrains

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 18:10

I hope it is the last time we see Fernando's car on a hook this year

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#125 walkindude

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 21:12

I've been out of touch.Do we have the new front wing?

#126 Aerosoul

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 21:46

Looking good for the race and quali.

#127 AyrtonSauna

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 00:05

I've been out of touch.Do we have the new front wing?



Nah.
Why would they change the front wing from Spa anyway?.I've got a great feeling about this current front wing.It just LOOKS so damn good to me.Not ugly like Saubers for eg or even previous Ferrari ones and there's always a bit of truth in the notion "If it looks fast it goes fast"


#128 jstrains

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 03:35

Interesting interview with our boss - "F1 is becoming a sort of satellite for aeroplane aerodynamic research - and I want to do car research."
http://www.crash.net..._emotional.html


#129 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:06

No surprise Ferrari are fast on a track which requires minimal down force considering they have never had much all season. Should be a good weekend, but they need some proper updates to once and for all be competitve because Fernando wont win the title battling with Saubers and Williams, with the Mclarens so dominant.

#130 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 07:49

Well, it was confirmation in my opinion. During the press conference yesterday Fernando was asked if there was time for a large update package for Ferrari to make a big jump in performance like McLaren did recently. He said yes for sure, that's it's coming. Sooner or later.

Q: (Livio Oricchio - O Estado de Sao Paulo) Fernando, Felipe, in Barcelona and in Montreal, you had great changes to your car and Ferrari made a great step forward. You have regularly said you are now eight tenths slower than the fastest car. Is there room for a new package from Ferrari to make it similar to McLaren, for example?


FA: I think so. I think there are still three months of competition. There are still eight races to go, so all the teams bring some updates to every race. We just need to make ours work a little bit better than the others. In February or March we were more than a second behind the front runners, and then around Barcelona or Canada we were two or three tenths. In two or three months you can make a lot of progress. We just need to be clear on that and make some good steps which I'm sure and confident will arrive sooner or later.

Link



Fernando just gave a very general almost hopeful type answer, nothing specific about a big upgrade coming, so I would not get my hopes up at all. Apart from copying Mclarens exhaust what have the Ferrari engineers really brought to the table this season anyway? Apart from Spain and Canada, and maybe silverstone, their dry pace has been midfield all season, with an average dry qualifying position of 7.4 for Alonso. There seems to be a general opinion by many that the race pace is better, but that is really a false perception because the lotus, Williams, and Sauber drivers constantly stuff up in races allowing Fernando at least to capitalise.

#131 as65p

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:04

Fernando just gave a very general almost hopeful type answer, nothing specific about a big upgrade coming, so I would not get my hopes up at all. Apart from copying Mclarens exhaust what have the Ferrari engineers really brought to the table this season anyway? Apart from Spain and Canada, and maybe silverstone, their dry pace has been midfield all season, with an average dry qualifying position of 7.4 for Alonso. There seems to be a general opinion by many that the race pace is better, but that is really a false perception because the lotus, Williams, and Sauber drivers constantly stuff up in races allowing Fernando at least to capitalise.


I think one must distinguish (as FA seems to) between design team and race team. Clearly the former was doing a mediocre job with this years car over the winter, and while thy should be credited with clawing some of it back with upgrades, it's overall not good enough for a team with Ferrari's ambitions. The race team, OTOH, has been excellent this season.

#132 Aerosoul

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:09

No surprise Ferrari are fast on a track which requires minimal down force considering they have never had much all season. Should be a good weekend, but they need some proper updates to once and for all be competitve because Fernando wont win the title battling with Saubers and Williams, with the Mclarens so dominant.


what an ignorant statement. the f2012 has been one of the highest aero downforce cars on the grid. look at their wet weather performance...

with your reasoning the hrt's and marrusia's should be leading the pack :rolleyes:

Edited by Aerosoul, 08 September 2012 - 08:13.


#133 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:12

what an ignorant statement. the f2012 has been one of the highest aero downforce cars on the grid. look at their wet weather performance...


If mine is ignorant then I wonder how we could describe yours considering Ferrari's lack of pace on the highest downforce tracks, like Monaco, and Hungary. Wet weather allows drivers to make the difference, which is why Fernando was so fast, nothing to do with exceptional downforce. Ferrari's speed on low downforce tracks like Canada, Monza, seems to demonstrate what I am saying. At Spa, Mclaren matched Ferrari in the fast sectors yet destroyed it in the twisty S2. The car has had poor downforce all season.

Edited by forixfan, 08 September 2012 - 08:15.


#134 Aerosoul

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:15

If mine is ignorant then I wonder how we could describe yours considering Ferrari's lack of pace on the highest downforce tracks, like Monaco, and Hungary. Wet weather allows drivers to make the difference, which is why Fernando was so fast, nothing to do with exceptional downforce. Ferrari's speed on low downforce tracks like Canada, Monza, seems to demonstrate what I am saying.


valencia, silverstone = high downforce tracks. ferrari was at the front...

#135 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:19

valencia, silverstone = high downforce tracks. ferrari was at the front...


At Valencia they qualified 11th, how could that happen, if according to you, the Ferrari is one of the highest downforce cars on the track????? The result on race day was mainly down to great racing, and luck. Silverstone grid position was down to the wet weather. Just looking at the final results is not an analysis, and its what leads to disappointment when Ferrari qualify nowhere like they do when its dry and its rivals do not make mistakes.

Edited by forixfan, 08 September 2012 - 08:20.


#136 FerrariAlonso

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:22

If mine is ignorant then I wonder how we could describe yours considering Ferrari's lack of pace on the highest downforce tracks, like Monaco, and Hungary. Wet weather allows drivers to make the difference, which is why Fernando was so fast, nothing to do with exceptional downforce. Ferrari's speed on low downforce tracks like Canada, Monza, seems to demonstrate what I am saying. At Spa, Mclaren matched Ferrari in the fast sectors yet destroyed it in the twisty S2. The car has had poor downforce all season.


It is not true. In Monaco and Hungary you run with maximum downforce, but it is all about mechanical traction (!!!) there. F2007 was way ahead of the field in downforce, but was massively struggling in Monaco, because it had terrible mechanical traction. To see which car has good downforce you need to have a look at the performance at Barca, Silverstone. Ferrari were very-very strong there. High-speed stability has been the strengh of the F2012 all year, just the McLaren seemed to have better downforce in the high-speed corners.

#137 arvindsi

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:33

At Valencia they qualified 11th, how could that happen, if according to you, the Ferrari is one of the highest downforce cars on the track????? The result on race day was mainly down to great racing, and luck. Silverstone grid position was down to the wet weather. Just looking at the final results is not an analysis, and its what leads to disappointment when Ferrari qualify nowhere like they do when its dry and its rivals do not make mistakes.


Ferrari had the pace in valencia, in case you remember the qualifying correctly, around 2 tenths covered the top 10 during Q2. And as has been seen, the car is in much better shape during races than in qualifying. Also, in Silverstone, Alonso was comfortably ahead of the Red Bulls until the last stage when he fitted the soft tyres. That does not mean the car didn't have any pace at all. They were in a very strong position in Monaco as well, which was reflected by Alonso right before he was coming in for the pit stops. Only strategic errors had led to the loss of the possible wins at Monaco as well as Canada. In Hungary, the car was matching others in S2 which has fast flowing corners where downforce matters.

In case you haven't noticed, all teams have had a much cars at the beginning of the season, ferrari had to first catch up with everyone. Please check your facts before blatantly downplaying the car.

#138 toxicfusion

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:36

At Valencia they qualified 11th, how could that happen, if according to you, the Ferrari is one of the highest downforce cars on the track????? The result on race day was mainly down to great racing, and luck. Silverstone grid position was down to the wet weather. Just looking at the final results is not an analysis, and its what leads to disappointment when Ferrari qualify nowhere like they do when its dry and its rivals do not make mistakes.


Qualified 11th, under 3 tenths off the fastest time. The field was so close in that session.


Ferrari have had downforce, perhaps not as much as others, but it was there. Much of the development over the first half was to fix the exhausts and to find straight line speed.

Edited by toxicfusion, 08 September 2012 - 08:36.


#139 Creepy

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:38

Since the beggining of the race he was being VERY quick in Valencia, hence a lot of his passes. Alonso is IMO the best driver currently but that "good racing for good results" need a good driver and a good car. And the Ferrari was performing very good in Valencia.

I don't think really anyway that luck had much to do with it. He may have finished 2nd anyway without it. Definitely the Ferrari was performing good around a high downforce track.

Edited by Creepy, 08 September 2012 - 08:39.


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#140 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:43

Ferrari had the pace in valencia, in case you remember the qualifying correctly, around 2 tenths covered the top 10 during Q2. And as has been seen, the car is in much better shape during races than in qualifying. Also, in Silverstone, Alonso was comfortably ahead of the Red Bulls until the last stage when he fitted the soft tyres. That does not mean the car didn't have any pace at all. They were in a very strong position in Monaco as well, which was reflected by Alonso right before he was coming in for the pit stops. Only strategic errors had led to the loss of the possible wins at Monaco as well as Canada. In Hungary, the car was matching others in S2 which has fast flowing corners where downforce matters.

In case you haven't noticed, all teams have had a much cars at the beginning of the season, ferrari had to first catch up with everyone. Please check your facts before blatantly downplaying the car.


2 tenths in such a tight field is relatively large. Silverstone pace was competitive. I never said the car has no pace, I am saying that in such a tight field its consistently midfield in pace, be it, 2 tenths, or 1 second, the gaps change depending on the track but the order is usually consistent. Alonso capitalised on this thanks to the 3 wet weekends, I doubt anyone will suggest he would have won those race if there had been no rains, and he cannot rely on that for an entire season. Soon the odds will catch up and Ferrari will pay the price, so I dont think exaggerating the cars performance does anyone any favours. I am sure Ferrari understand this anyway.

#141 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 08:49

It is not true. In Monaco and Hungary you run with maximum downforce, but it is all about mechanical traction (!!!) there. \



Hmmm maybe, but I don't recall the car being anything special on any high speed tracks. It was pretty good at Spain, and Silverstone but still 3rd down the order at least. I guess it could have decent downforce, but overall performance is the big issue.

#142 kosmos

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:10

Gene thinks that the pole will go to McLaren but we will fight for it too, he give me the impression that we run with less fuel than the others in FP2 we wll see.

#143 Ferrari2183

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:14

2 tenths in such a tight field is relatively large. Silverstone pace was competitive. I never said the car has no pace, I am saying that in such a tight field its consistently midfield in pace, be it, 2 tenths, or 1 second, the gaps change depending on the track but the order is usually consistent. Alonso capitalised on this thanks to the 3 wet weekends, I doubt anyone will suggest he would have won those race if there had been no rains, and he cannot rely on that for an entire season. Soon the odds will catch up and Ferrari will pay the price, so I dont think exaggerating the cars performance does anyone any favours. I am sure Ferrari understand this anyway.

Everybody knows Ferrari lack qualifying pace. What is your point?

And yes, Alonso could have won both Silverstone and Germany had it been bone dry.

#144 SCUDmissile

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:16

Gene thinks that the pole will go to McLaren but we will fight for it too, he give me the impression that we run with less fuel than the others in FP2 we wll see.

That is the way I see it, as well. McLaren to be faster in Quali, maybe Mercedes as well, and RedBull if they get their act together.
But in the race Ferrari should be able to take anyone, especially as their car with a little more downforce than the others could maybe keep the tyres going a little longer.


#145 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:18

If mine is ignorant then I wonder how we could describe yours considering Ferrari's lack of pace on the highest downforce tracks, like Monaco, and Hungary. Wet weather allows drivers to make the difference, which is why Fernando was so fast, nothing to do with exceptional downforce. Ferrari's speed on low downforce tracks like Canada, Monza, seems to demonstrate what I am saying. At Spa, Mclaren matched Ferrari in the fast sectors yet destroyed it in the twisty S2. The car has had poor downforce all season.

:confused: :lol:

So much wrong with this post.

#146 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:19

Everybody knows Ferrari lack qualifying pace. What is your point?

And yes, Alonso could have won both Silverstone and Germany had it been bone dry.


My point is race pace is really no better. If Ferrari lack qualifying pace, they would not have gotten pole at Silverstone, or Germany, and obviously not won. A great team like Ferrari should not be relying on wet weather to win.

#147 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:20

:confused: :lol:

So much wrong with this post.


Like?

#148 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:20

Like?

Its all been pointed out already thankfully.

#149 forixfan

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:25

Its all been pointed out already thankfully.


No. It was suggested the car has strong downforce, but poor traction, but its never really been demonstrated. At Hungary they were 1 second from pole and Alonso qualified 6th. At Spa, 1 second off the pace and 7th. Seems to be equally as ordinary on any type of track.

#150 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 09:27

No. It was suggested the car has strong downforce, but poor traction, but its never really been demonstrated. At Hungary they were 1 second from pole and Alonso qualified 6th. At Spa, 1 second off the pace and 7th. Seems to be equally as ordinary on any type of track.

I'm not sure you understand this stuff all that well.

Edited by Seanspeed, 08 September 2012 - 09:29.