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Ferrari F2012 - Part III


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#3901 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:10

Updates looked fine in Q1 and Q2. In fact it looked really promising. Alonso just didn't improve his time. I'm a huge fan of his but this time I think he messed up.


It wouldn't be the first time that a car does suddnely not work on a different tyre set, track changes, etc. Without data you can't pin this on Alonso just yet.

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#3902 Ferrari2183

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:10

Updates looked fine in Q1 and Q2. In fact it looked really promising. Alonso just didn't improve his time. I'm a huge fan of his but this time I think he messed up.

Yeah, in Q2 he was waving his hand around at Webber as if to say you held me up. Well that was a 41.5 and his Q3 lap was again a 41.5. His final attempt was a 41.6.

But the team will be blamed for this.

#3903 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:12

Updates working or not i don't know but one thing for sure we are going backwards in grid position.

I dont think this is a representative track to be fair. Updates could well have worked, but this track has always been terrible for Ferrari. Not sure we need to go blaming Alonso, either. Its very possible they were already wringing everything they could out of the car in Q2 and didn't have the scope for improvement that some others might have had. Its not like Alonso qualified behind Massa or anything.

Anyways, from 7th, I'm at least expecting some entertainment. P4/P5 possible tomorrow. Podium with a bit of luck maybe.

Edited by Seanspeed, 03 November 2012 - 14:13.


#3904 walkindude

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:12

Alonso did two 41.5 laps and a 41.6. When you have a guy like Alonso driving the car it's generally fair to say that is the speed that was in the car. That was the speed in the Ferrari/Alonso package today and it wasn't good enough. Simple. Whether it was Alonso, the car or a bit of both doesn't matter. Win as a team, lose as a team.

So the other drivers don't try enough in Q2? I'm sorry to say but I have always supported Alonso no matter what but he hasn't delivered in the last 2 qualifying sessions. Today was such a golden opportunity for us especially if Vettel is given a penalty.

#3905 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:13

Vettel will have to start P24 - He couldnt make it back

#3906 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:13

But the team will be blamed for this.


Alonso is part of the team, I wish people would stop separating them.

#3907 decoder

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:13

So now it is the updates fault?

Alonso didn't go any quicker than he did in Q2... While everybody else did.

Starting from 7th and under investigation. Ah well.



Massa was matching Alonso's splits through qualifying, do you really think he was doing that in a slower car? I find that very hard to believe. Even If Alonso improved, I doubt it would have made much difference as the gap to the next car is 3 tenths.

#3908 turssi

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:13

unsafe release by Lotus, we are ok.


Yeah, it was Grosjean that was sent/forced/released in front of Fernando.

#3909 Enzoluis

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:13

Yeah, in Q2 he was waving his hand around at Webber as if to say you held me up. Well that was a 41.5 and his Q3 lap was again a 41.5. His final attempt was a 41.6.

But the team will be blamed for this.


And both laps with new sets of tires.


#3910 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:14

The lotus updates have been mega. They have improved considerably

#3911 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:14

So the other drivers don't try enough in Q2? I'm sorry to say but I have always supported Alonso no matter what but he hasn't delivered in the last 2 qualifying sessions. Today was such a golden opportunity for us especially if Vettel is given a penalty.


No off course they didn't! Button was miles off in Q2 which made P4 look possible, Maldonado pulls out random laps and I don't see any evidence from either car this weekend that a 41.2 to beat Kimi was possible.

#3912 iakhtar

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:14

Every time i watch the Ferrari onboards I'm just amazed how much of a handful the car looks like.

#3913 SCUDmissile

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:14

Alonso is part of the team, I wish people would stop separating them.

His fanboys separate them.
When they are doing well, it is all Alonso but when the going is bad, it is all Ferrari.



#3914 Enzoluis

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:14

Faces of RB drivers in the press conferencce are not happy.

#3915 Claudiu

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:14

Probably the worst circuit for our car ... we have been a joke all year on circuits where good traction out of the slow corners is required.

I really hope next year's car fixes this shortfall.

#3916 Longtimefan

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:15

Vettel will have to start P24 - He couldnt make it back

Red Bull don't get penalties though.



#3917 HPT

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:15

It wouldn't be the first time that a car does suddnely not work on a different tyre set, track changes, etc. Without data you can't pin this on Alonso just yet.


I'm not blaming him. I said 'I think'. But even if he messed up, I made it clear that he's been outstanding this season and I'm not upset at him at all even though it's frustrating as a fan. But if he did mess up then I'm not going to search for excuses for him. That's all.

#3918 Massa

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:16

Probably the worst circuit for our car ... we have been a joke all year on circuits where good traction out of the slow corners is required.

I really hope next year's car fixes this shortfall.



Like at Monaco or Canada or Germany ?....

#3919 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:16

I'm not blaming him. I said 'I think'. But even if he messed up, I made it clear that he's been outstanding this season and I'm not upset at him at all even though it's frustrating as a fan. But if he did mess up then I'm not going to search for excuses for him. That's all.


Yeah I was talking more in the direction of other posters I guess, sorry.

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#3920 Claudiu

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:16

The only thing that can save our championship is Vettel having a problem that will attract a penalty and start behind us.

The last two races should be better for us.

#3921 Hanzo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:16

It is so pointless to read people here guessing where to put the blame that it hurts.


#3922 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:16

His fanboys separate them.
When they are doing well, it is all Alonso but when the going is bad, it is all Ferrari.


And Ferrari fanboys are doing the exact same thing by blaming Alonso. It's possible that he lost a few tenths but I see no evidence that the car had another three tenths in it. 41.5, 41.5 and 41.6 with a consistent driver like Fernando indicates there wasn't LOADS more to come. I agree a tenth or two extra was there but we will never know if there were another three tenths or not.

#3923 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:17

The only thing that can save our championship is Vettel having a problem that will attract a penalty and start behind us.

The last two races should be better for us.


Its either gearbox penalty and 5 places or fuel related and P24 for Vettel

#3924 jeze

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:18

Poor performance from Fernando today, Felipe made a complete mess of the final sector and was just a tenth behind.

41.1 was certainly possible :down:



#3925 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:18

the gap to the next car is 3 tenths.

Yup. That would have been hard to overcome even with a really good lap.

#3926 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:19

Alonso in RTL interview saying that it was the maximum of the car, can do 100 laps and won't be faster. Hoping for tomorrow when pace usually better, and expecting showdown in Brazil.

#3927 HPT

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:19

Yeah I was talking more in the direction of other posters I guess, sorry.


It's ok mate! :kiss:

#3928 walkindude

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:19

Well it's either the updates that are shit (comparing to Felipe's times) or Alonso who messed up. Fact is it is a complete waste.

#3929 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:20

Maldonado came from nowhere - how on earth did he manage that

#3930 decoder

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:20

Poor performance from Fernando today, Felipe made a complete mess of the final sector and was just a tenth behind.

41.1 was certainly possible :down:



lol Where did you get the idea that 41.1 was possible, when the split times were so slow? On his final run all his split times were slow, which suggests no mistake, just nothing else possible.

#3931 Massa

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:21

lol Where did you get the idea that 41.1 was possible, when the split times were so slow? On his final run all his split times were slow, which suggests no mistake, just nothing else possible.


I think without his mistake, Massa could be as fast of faster no ?

Edited by Massa, 03 November 2012 - 14:21.


#3932 topical

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:22

Alonso in RTL interview saying that it was the maximum of the car, can do 100 laps and won't be faster. Hoping for tomorrow when pace usually better, and expecting showdown in Brazil.


He was 1 tenth faster in Q2 and waving his hand at Webber for slowing him down, so it clearly wasn't the maximum of the car.
However if Vettel gets a penalty or even demoted to the back this horrendous qualy session could yet have a happy end. I am sure that in race trim Alonso can finish ahead of some of the guys in front.

#3933 toxicfusion

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:22

Well it's either the updates that are shit (comparing to Felipe's times) or Alonso who messed up. Fact is it is a complete waste.


Its not as if Felipe has nothing on his car, he's only missing the front wing and the bits under the nose (which I can't for the life of me remember the name)

#3934 Goron3

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:22

People need to remember that we are insanely quick on the straights and much quicker on the harder tyre. If Seb gets a penalty, we can still fight for big points.

#3935 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:22

I think without his mistake, Massa could be as fast of faster no ?

Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't mean the car had another half a second, though.

#3936 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:23

Even if Vettel is not penalised, I sense a crash with Maldonado - I like this result better than the India qualy result. Any qualy without Vettel on ppole gives us a better chance

#3937 ViMaMo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:24

Poor performance from Fernando today, Felipe made a complete mess of the final sector and was just a tenth behind.

41.1 was certainly possible :down:


Just how many times does he have to do it this season? Just give him a bloody fast car, instead he gets plastered for showing his frustration sometimes. What the heck is the team doing to let the car slip this far.

Massa became a baseline now. ? FA is almost doing a inch perfect job unlike 2010. Why should he face undue flak, when the car is clearly down and the team has admitted to serios problems.

#3938 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:26

He was 1 tenth faster in Q2 and waving his hand at Webber for slowing him down, so it clearly wasn't the maximum of the car.
However if Vettel gets a penalty or even demoted to the back this horrendous qualy session could yet have a happy end. I am sure that in race trim Alonso can finish ahead of some of the guys in front.


To be fair he would wave his hand regardless of being held up or not.

#3939 Frank

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:26

Updates might have work but it is just not enough compared to others. To me, most of the updates or upgrades are just slight enhancing but nothing breakthrough or taking a step forward and this is no good for WDC or WCC contention. What did Pat Fry said yesterday about upgrades look promising?

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#3940 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:29

Hoping that Vettel is demoted to P24

They are claiming it is alternator failure but I suspect it is fuel.

#3941 Massa

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:30

It's not acceptable to be that slow, even if we are one of the fastest car in the race, quali pace is TOO important to be that slow. You can't win a championship if you always start form the third row. In 2010, all the updates works, the development was fantastic, but know it's awful.

#3942 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:30

What the heck is the team doing to let the car slip this far.

They're trying man. And its not like the Mclaren put on upgrades that make it 3/4's of a second faster than it was in India. Certain tracks are going to suit some cars better than others. This obviously isn't gonna be one of those for Ferrari.

#3943 shanser

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:32

Pastor will not be overtaken on the straights!


Pastor Maldonado
325.8

Felipe Massa
320.0

Fernando Alonso
319.7

Kimi Räikkönen
314.5

Lewis Hamilton
313.7

Jenson Button
313.5

Sebastian Vettel
311.4

Mark Webber
311.2


#3944 BestCarWins

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:32

I guess the car just really sucks around circuits with lots of tight corners. Oh well the race is tomorrow lets see what it brings.


#3945 ArkZ

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:32

@camberley it doesn't matter, you have to back to pits on your own , otherwise start from back of the field.

#3946 Ferrari2183

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:33

This is what Alonso was told over the radio after the Webber thing...

Alonso told, "Yeah, I don't understand what people are doing, honestly. We have the pace, remember"

I doubt Stella would tell him that if there wasn't pace to be found.

#3947 Seanspeed

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:33

Pastor will not be overtaken on the straights!

Unless he can do that speed without DRS, he can be overtaken.

This is what Alonso was told over the radio after the Webber thing...

Alonso told, "Yeah, I don't understand what people are doing, honestly. We have the pace, remember"

I doubt Stella would tell him that if there wasn't pace to be found.

Race engineers say overly optimistic things all the time.

Edited by Seanspeed, 03 November 2012 - 14:34.


#3948 camberley

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:33

Pastor will easily overtake Vettel on the straight if he does not crash into anyone else first

#3949 Disgrace

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:34

There is some hope for Ferrari. The race pace is always better and a longer seventh gear might take Alonso past at least Button on the first lap. Massa likewise is competitive enough to be used tactically.

#3950 Hanzo

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Posted 03 November 2012 - 14:34

There is right now a lack of comments in here from the people who loves to say a thousand times every weekend that the championship is over.
I am guessing they are waiting to know if Vettel gets a penalty or not so they don't look like fools. Good boys.