Top 20 F1 drivers in our opinion
#1
Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:54
1. Prost
2. Senna
3. Schumacher
4. Fangio
5. Clark
6. Stewart
7. Lauda
8. Alonso
9. Brabham
10. Moss
11. Ascari
12. Piquet
13. Mansell
14. Vettel
15. G. Villenueve
16. Fitipaldi
17. Hamilton
18. Rindt
19. G. Hill
20. Hakkinen
21. Raikkonen
I'm comfortable with any order among the top 5. If Alonso wins this year, I'd put him above Lauda and equal/better than Stewart. 4th title would mean the top 5 becoming a top 6 - who're clearly better than the rest.
Please note that the list only includes F1 drivers since 1950. I can't really comment on how great Nuvolari or Rosemeyer were compared to the ones above.
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#2
Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:08
02) Schumacher
03) Fangio
04) Prost
05) Clark
06) Stewart
07) Lauda
08) Villenueve
09) Alonso
10) Vettel
11) Ascari
12) Rindt
13) Moss
14) Brabham
15) Hill
16) Piquet
17) Mansell
18) Fittipaldi
19) Hamilon
20) Hakkinen
#3
Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:31
2. Senna
3. Fanigo
4. Prost
5. Clark
6. Steward
7. Piquet
8. Lauda
9. Brabham
10. Alonso
11. Vettel
12. G. Hill
13. Häikkinen
14. Ascari
15. Mansell
16. G. Villeneuve
17. Rindt
18. Fittipaldi
19. Andretti
20. Moss
#4
Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:35
2. Fandio
3. Senna
4. Prost
5. Clark
6. Stewart
7. Lauda
8. Vettel
9. Alonso
10. Ascari
11. G Villeneuve
12. Mansell
13. Piquet
14. Brabham
15. Raikkonen
16. Hamilton
17. Peterson
18. E Fittipaldi
19. Rindt
20. Gurney
#5
Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:45
#6
Posted 06 September 2012 - 09:49
Can any of you guys actually explain how you filter people from fifty years ago to present day? I personally go by my likes. I saw Senna and Prost racing in person; know nothing much about people before that. Liked Prost, couldn't stand sight of Senna, thought that Lauda was spectacular, Fittipaldi was OK, Hunt as gigolo, and Keke was there somewhere too, then Schumi, Seb... quite simple actually when you see them, but to say that Fangio impresses me? Maybe his stats do, but everything else is dry dust.
#7
Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:29
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Schumacher
5. Button
6. Raikkonen
7. Kubica
8. Hakkinen
9. Senna
10. Montoya
11. Prost
12. Webber
13. Rosberg
14. Barrichello
15. Coulthard
16. Hill
17. Piquet
18. Heidfeld
19. Mansell
20. Sato
#8
Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:45
Mixture of things. Contemporaneous opinion, overlap with later eras, strength of opposition which can also be gleaned from both of those. And some footage can be illuminating.Can any of you guys actually explain how you filter people from fifty years ago to present day?
I'd do it as a sort of pyramid.
1. Clark
2. Fangio
3. Stewart
4. Prost/Senna/Moss
7. Ascari/Hamilton/Alonso
10. Schumacher/Wimille/Vettel
13. G Hill/Brabham/Lauda/Mansell
17. Andretti/Hakkinen/Emmo/Gurney
#9
Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:45
#11
Posted 06 September 2012 - 10:56
#12
Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:02
2. Prost
3. Clark
4. Ascari
5. Lauda
6. Schumacher
7. Senna
8. Alonso
9. Piquet
10. Stewart
11. Moss
12. Hawthorn
13. Brabham
14. Surtees
15. Andretti
16. Fittipaldi
17. G Villeneuve
18. Regazzoni
19. Scheckter
20. Gonzalez
#13
Posted 06 September 2012 - 16:04
2. J. M. Fangio
3. A. Prost
4. A. Senna
5. J. Stewart
6. M. Schumacher
7. N. Lauda
8. S. Moss
9. J. Brabham
10. A. Ascari
11. N. Piquet Snr.
12. F. Alonso
13. N. Mansell
14. E. Fittipaldi
15. G. Hill
16. M. Hakkinen
17. G. Villenueve
18. J. Rindt
19. M. Andretti
20. J. Surtees
- - - - -
21. K. Raikkonen
22. L. Hamilton
23. R. Peterson
24. S. Vettel
25. J. Button
Edited by Jimisgod, 06 September 2012 - 16:10.
#15
Posted 06 September 2012 - 16:09
1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Schumacher
5. Button
6. Raikkonen
7. Kubica
8. Hakkinen
9. Senna
10. Montoya
11. Prost
12. Webber
13. Rosberg
14. Barrichello
15. Coulthard
16. Hill
17. Piquet
18. Heidfeld
19. Mansell
20. Sato
Good joke.
#16
Posted 06 September 2012 - 16:13
#17
Posted 06 September 2012 - 16:50
1. Michael Schumacher
2. Ayrton Senna
3. Alain Prost
4. Fernando Alonso
5. Nelson Piquet (only really caught his later years)
6. Mika Hakkinen
7. Nigel Mansell
8. Lewis Hamilton
9. Sebastian Vettel
10. Kimi Raikkonen
11. Gerhard Berger
12. Jean Alesi
13. Damon Hill
14. Jenson Button
15. Jacques Villeneuve
16. Juan Pablo Montoya
17. David Coulthard
18. Robert Kubica
19. Felipe Massa (Before accident)
20. Rubens Barrichello
just my list, and after Kimi, it gets solid trying to pick a good list.
#18
Posted 06 September 2012 - 16:55
14. Barrichello
So far the best...joke!
#19
Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:19
So far the best...joke!
Nah, Montoya in front of Prost is better
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#20
Posted 06 September 2012 - 17:44
No you don't. You don't have to remember the second world war to know that Hitler was a bad person, do you? Reputations live longer than people, and if Fangio et al are remembered as great drivers, it's because they were, and it's fine for younger people to recognise that.You'd have to be near 90 to validly pass judgement on Ascari/Fangio et al.
#21
Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:03
2. Clark
3. Schumacher
4. Prost
5. Stewart
6. Lauda
7. Fangio
8. Surtees
9. Hunt
10. Alonso
11. Mansell
12. Moss
13. Hakkinen
14. Vettel
15. Hamilton
16. Fittipaldi
17. G.Villenueve
18. Raikkonen
19. G. Hill
20. Rindt
21. Piquet
#22
Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:35
2. Amati.
3. Rosset.
4. Ide.
5. Brabham (David).
6. Montermimi.
7. Schiattarella.
8. Lavaggi.
9. Inoue.
10. Badoer.
11. Nakajima (Kazuki).
12. Adams.
13. Marques.
14. Sospiri.
15. Lamy.
16. Yamamoto.
17. Diniz.
18. Mazzacane.
19. Piquet (Nelsinho).
20. Maldonado.
Wait, not for top comedic value?
Edited by Disgrace, 06 September 2012 - 18:36.
#23
Posted 06 September 2012 - 18:39
But there is a lot more documentation about Hitler then there is about Fangio, Farina and Ascari. And we're not asking if Fangio was a good driver in his time, but if he is as good a driver as Vettel, whatever that means. Using your analogy, we are being asked to compare Mussolini to Saddam Hussain or Pol Pot and that is impossible to do properly.No you don't. You don't have to remember the second world war to know that Hitler was a bad person, do you? Reputations live longer than people, and if Fangio et al are remembered as great drivers, it's because they were, and it's fine for younger people to recognise that.
Sometimes reputations grow over time and sometimes they diminish. Think about Elvis Presley. His reputation is pretty low these days, but in the eighties it was as high as it could be, whereas the Beatles are still riding very high.
Edited by Tsarwash, 06 September 2012 - 18:41.
#24
Posted 06 September 2012 - 21:54
1. Kimi
2. Alonso
3. Schumi
4. Hamilton
5. Nico Rosberg
6. Trulli
7. Senna
8. Prost
9. Mansell
10. Mika
The rest of the old guys, I've read about, saw some clips, but I can't really evaluate them in the same way.
My list from 11-20 for the older gen, would be filled with guys like G. Villeneuve, Lauda, Fangio - people who actually won a lot or were considered very fast in their time. But that would really be based on what others opinion.
#25
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:11
1. M. Schumacher
2. Fangio
3. Prost
4. A. Senna
5. Clark
6. Stewart
7. Lauda
8. J. Brabham
9. Alonso
10. Piquet
11. Ascari
12. E. Fittipaldi
13. G. Hill
14. Vettel
15. Moss
16. Mansell
17. Hakkinen
18. Surtees
19. Hamilton
20. Rindt
Since I watched F1 from 1998
1. M. Schumacher
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Hakkinen
5. Hamilton
6. Raikkonen
7. Button
8. Webber
9. Kubica
10. Montoya
just outside would be Rosberg, Massa, Heidfeld, R. Schumacher, Barrichello, Frentzen
Edited by joshb, 06 September 2012 - 22:17.
#26
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:17
Using your logic, it would be impossible to compare anything that wasn't exactly the same. I know reputations change and all that, but if nobody was allowed to judge people from the past just because they weren't there then the world would be quite a boring place.But there is a lot more documentation about Hitler then there is about Fangio, Farina and Ascari. And we're not asking if Fangio was a good driver in his time, but if he is as good a driver as Vettel, whatever that means. Using your analogy, we are being asked to compare Mussolini to Saddam Hussain or Pol Pot and that is impossible to do properly.
Sometimes reputations grow over time and sometimes they diminish. Think about Elvis Presley. His reputation is pretty low these days, but in the eighties it was as high as it could be, whereas the Beatles are still riding very high.
#27
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:20
Ten among the bunch who raced in the 90s/2000s - in no particular order.
1. Kimi
2. Alonso
3. Schumi
4. Hamilton
5. Nico Rosberg
6. Trulli
7. Senna
8. Prost
9. Mansell
10. Mika
The rest of the old guys, I've read about, saw some clips, but I can't really evaluate them in the same way.
My list from 11-20 for the older gen, would be filled with guys like G. Villeneuve, Lauda, Fangio - people who actually won a lot or were considered very fast in their time. But that would really be based on what others opinion.
#28
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:24
#29
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:31
Clark
.
.
.
.
.
.
Schumacher
Prost
Alonso
Fangio
Rindt
Ascari
Hamilton
Hakkinen
#30
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:37
1. Alonso
2. Hamilton
3. Vettel
4. Schumacher
5. Button
6. Raikkonen
7. Kubica
8. Hakkinen
9. Senna
10. Montoya
11. Prost
12. Webber
13. Rosberg
14. Barrichello
15. Coulthard
16. Hill
17. Piquet
18. Heidfeld
19. Mansell
20. Sato
When I see a list like this, I want to weep.
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Coulthard, Webber, Barrichello..
ahead of:- Clark, Stewart, Rindt, Moss, Brabham, Fangio, Ascari, Surtees, Fittipaldi, Lauda etc etc
Some F1 fans would be better off going watching football it seems.
#31
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:41
For me (1997-ish onwards) that's:
1. Schumacher
2. Alonso
3. Hakkinen
4. Vettel
5. Raikkonen
6. Hamilton
7. Button
8. Massa
9. Frentzen
10. Montoya
#32
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:52
I think he's jokingWhen I see a list like this, I want to weep.
Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Coulthard, Webber, Barrichello..
ahead of:- Clark, Stewart, Rindt, Moss, Brabham, Fangio, Ascari, Surtees, Fittipaldi, Lauda etc etc
Some F1 fans would be better off going watching football it seems.
#33
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:52
You'd have to be near 90 to validly pass judgement on Ascari/Fangio et al.
yeah, it's such a shame we can't say whether concentration camps were a bad thing or not
#34
Posted 06 September 2012 - 22:57
Number 1. gets 10 p.
2. gets 9 p.
3. gets 8.
etc.
And eventually I'd put all the points together and we'd have the overall consensus list for the best drivers.
If anyone is interested I could set this up just for fun. Yes? no?
Edited by Wander, 06 September 2012 - 22:58.
#35
Posted 06 September 2012 - 23:44
I think he's joking
No, I don't think he is.....
#36
Posted 07 September 2012 - 00:06
Anyway, this is my division, greatest driver(s) from each era, in my personal opinion:
late 60s-early 70s - Jackie Stewart; held the record for most wins ever!!
Mid 70s - late 70s - Niki Lauda; was a phenomenom and his 80s performance against a faster Prost is legendary
Early 80s - Mid 80s - Nelson Piquet; technically-minded, versatile, with great car control
Mid 80s to late 80s - Alain Prost; another technical, smart, smooth driver in the line of Lauda and Stewart
Early 90s to mid 90s - Ayrton Senna; the supreme rain master and the most 'natural' driver
Mid 90s to mid 2000s - M. Schumacher; started giving Senna headaches and then achieved all records
Modern era - Fernando Alonso; no doubt the most complete driver on the grid
From all of them i'd rank them:
1. Alain Prost, Niki Lauda, Jackie Stewart
2. Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet
3. M. Schumacher
4. Fernando Alonso
But that's just opinions...
Edited by flavio81, 07 September 2012 - 00:10.
#37
Posted 07 September 2012 - 00:16
Prost
Schumacher
Fangio
Clark
Lauda
Stewart
Piquet
Brabham
Hill
Hakkinen
Alonso
Fittipaldi
Raikkonen
Hamilton
Rindt
Button
Ascari
Vettel
Andretti
Its more complicated than simply naming them from first the twentieth. Some I havent seen race and must trust their reputations, others I have seen race and still must try to break down what was circumstancial to what wasnt. Senna and Prost are joint first to me with Schumacher third. Then there really isnt any clear order except how I remembered them as I wrote the list. I dont think Id be ale to split hairs that well, they are/were are fantastic.
#38
Posted 07 September 2012 - 00:46
2. Jim Clark (1960-1968) Great Britain
3. Juan Manuel Fangio (1950-1951, 1953-1958) Argentina
4. Michael Schumacher (1991-2006, 2010-present) Germany
5. Alain Prost (1980-1991, 1993) France
6. Jackie Stewart (1965-1973) Great Britain
7. Niki Lauda (1971-1979, 1982-1985) Austria
8. Fernando Alonso (2001-present) Spain
9. Stirling Moss (1951-1961) Great Britain
10. Alberto Ascari (1950-1955) Italy
11. Jack Brabham (1955-1970) Australia
12. Nelson Piquet (1978-1991) Brazil
13. Mika Hakkinen (1991-2001) Finland
14. Sebastian Vettel (2007-present) Germany
15. Graham Hill (1958-1975) Great Britain
16. Emerson Fittipaldi (1970-1980) Brazil
17. Kimi Raikkonen (2001-2009, 2012–) Finland
18. Gilles Villeneuve (1977-1982) Canada
19. Jochen Rindt (1964-1970) (Austria)
20. Lewis Hamilton (2007-present) Great Britain
#39
Posted 07 September 2012 - 00:50
Anyway, this is my division, greatest driver(s) from each era, in my personal opinion:
late 60s-early 70s - Jackie Stewart; held the record for most wins ever!!
Mid 70s - late 70s - Niki Lauda; was a phenomenom and his 80s performance against a faster Prost is legendary
Early 80s - Mid 80s - Nelson Piquet; technically-minded, versatile, with great car control
Mid 80s to late 80s - Alain Prost; another technical, smart, smooth driver in the line of Lauda and Stewart
Early 90s to mid 90s - Ayrton Senna; the supreme rain master and the most 'natural' driver
Mid 90s to mid 2000s - M. Schumacher; started giving Senna headaches and then achieved all records
Modern era - Fernando Alonso; no doubt the most complete driver on the grid
Very accurate description
Rajdeep, it would be a great service of yours to count together the results after one or two weeks, to see what total picture emerges on the BB. You could alocate each 1st place mention 20 points, 2nd place mention 19 points etc.......20th place mention 1 point so we can see a total score among Atlas BB posters.
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#40
Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:24
This is also my range.. Montoya for me is top 5 since 2000..would also have Kubica instead of Frentzen..i would also include JVI think this thread could fuel more informed debate if people only posted the best drivers from their time of watching F1.
For me (1997-ish onwards) that's:
1. Schumacher
2. Alonso
3. Hakkinen
4. Vettel
5. Raikkonen
6. Hamilton
7. Button
8. Massa
9. Frentzen
10. Montoya
#41
Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:53
1. Ayrton Senna (1984-1994) Brazil
2. Jim Clark (1960-1968) Great Britain
3. Juan Manuel Fangio (1950-1951, 1953-1958) Argentina
4. Michael Schumacher (1991-2006, 2010-present) Germany
5. Alain Prost (1980-1991, 1993) France
6. Jackie Stewart (1965-1973) Great Britain
7. Niki Lauda (1971-1979, 1982-1985) Austria
8. Fernando Alonso (2001-present) Spain
9. Stirling Moss (1951-1961) Great Britain
10. Alberto Ascari (1950-1955) Italy
11. Jack Brabham (1955-1970) Australia
12. Nelson Piquet (1978-1991) Brazil
13. Mika Hakkinen (1991-2001) Finland
14. Sebastian Vettel (2007-present) Germany
15. Graham Hill (1958-1975) Great Britain
16. Emerson Fittipaldi (1970-1980) Brazil
17. Kimi Raikkonen (2001-2009, 2012–) Finland
18. Gilles Villeneuve (1977-1982) Canada
19. Jochen Rindt (1964-1970) (Austria)
20. Lewis Hamilton (2007-present) Great Britain
My list would be very similar to yours. I would just put Jochen Rindt ahead of Gilles Villeneuve and both of them ahead of Raikkonen.
Also you have a very interesting quote of Senna in your signature. Of all those famous english quotes of him you have one in portuguese. Are you brazilian or portuguese? I apologize if I'm being inconvenient in any way.
#42
Posted 07 September 2012 - 01:58
late 60s-early 70s - Jackie Stewart; held the record for most wins ever!!
Mid 70s - late 70s - Niki Lauda; was a phenomenom and his 80s performance against a faster Prost is legendary
Early 80s - Mid 80s - Nelson Piquet; technically-minded, versatile, with great car control
Mid 80s to late 80s - Alain Prost; another technical, smart, smooth driver in the line of Lauda and Stewart
Early 90s to mid 90s - Ayrton Senna; the supreme rain master and the most 'natural' driver
Mid 90s to mid 2000s - M. Schumacher; started giving Senna headaches and then achieved all records
Modern era - Fernando Alonso; no doubt the most complete driver on the grid
What he said!
#43
Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:13
I think this thread could fuel more informed debate if people only posted the best drivers from their time of watching F1.
For me (1997-ish onwards) that's:
1. Schumacher
2. Alonso
3. Hakkinen
4. Vettel
5. Raikkonen
6. Hamilton
7. Button
8. Massa
9. Frentzen
10. Montoya
I agree with it (and I'm voting on 1997 onwards too). Only that some drivers may get higher or lower notes depending on how they end their careers. Also, I'd change Montoya for Massa.
Edited by Creepy, 07 September 2012 - 06:16.
#44
Posted 07 September 2012 - 06:35
1. Alonso
2. Schumacher
3. Hakkinen
4. Raikkonen
5. Button
6. Hamilton
7. Vettel
8. Kubica
9. Webber
10. Montoya
Ed. Forgot Hakkinen, so long ago.
Edited by Jimisgod, 07 September 2012 - 11:18.
#45
Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:22
2. Juan Manuel Fangio
3. Niki Lauda
4. Jackie Stewart
5. Jack Brabham
6. Stirling Moss
7. Alain Prost
8. Jim Clark
9. Sebastian Vettel
10. Kimi Räikkönen
11. Jenson Button
12. Michael Schumacher
13. Lewis Hamilton
14. Mika Häkkinen
15. Damon Hill
16. Jean Alesi
17. Nigel Mansell
18. Gerhard Berger
19. Robert Kubica
20. Kamui Kobayashi
My list is kind of split into two class: legends/pioneers and modern era (being following F1 from late 80's).
Some champions are left out due their beaviour out and in track or just being competeting with drivers I happen to rank little better. Modern era is bit mixed with some non champions ahead of some champions due I tried to compensate efforts with more equal equipments. If driver did cabinet politics, set himself ahead of team mate by contracts and agreements, those actions lowers rank and or even left out from whole list. Also modern F1 drivers are outclassed by fellows who also had to be very quick and brave in cars which were very dangerous and even lethal to drive.
Edited by The Kanisteri, 07 September 2012 - 07:23.
#46
Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:08
late 60s-early 70s - Jackie Stewart; held the record for most wins ever!!
Mid 70s - late 70s - Niki Lauda; was a phenomenom and his 80s performance against a faster Prost is legendary
Early 80s - Mid 80s - Nelson Piquet; technically-minded, versatile, with great car control
Mid 80s to late 80s - Alain Prost; another technical, smart, smooth driver in the line of Lauda and Stewart
Early 90s to mid 90s - Ayrton Senna; the supreme rain master and the most 'natural' driver
Mid 90s to mid 2000s - M. Schumacher; started giving Senna headaches and then achieved all records
Modern era - Fernando Alonso; no doubt the most complete driver on the grid
I agree with most but not Jackie Stewart, whilst JYS is a legend and a worthy triple WDC, he himself would be the first to say that Jim Clark would top the 60's drivers list, not himself.
#47
Posted 07 September 2012 - 09:51
02 Senna
03 Clark
04 Ascari
05 Fangio
06 Moss
07 Stewart
08 Prost
09 Vettel
10 Brabham
11 G Hill
12 Lauda
13 Andretti
14 Piquet
15 Mansell
16 Häkkinen
17 Alonso
18 Hamilton
19 Farina
20 P Hill
#48
Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:06
2. Sebastian Vettel
3. Mark Webber
4. Kimi Räikkönen
5. Lewis Hamilton
6. Jenson Button
7. Nico Rosberg
8. Romain Grosjean
9. Sergio Perez
10. Michael Schumacher
11. Felipe Massa
12. Kamui Kobayashi
13. Nico Hulkenberg
14. Pastor Maldonado
15. Paul di Resta
16. Bruno Senna
17. Jean-Eric Vergne
18. Daniel Ricciardo
19. Vitaly Petrov
20. Heikki Kovalainen
#49
Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:32
1. Fernando Alonso
2. Sebastian Vettel
3. Kimi Räikkönen
4. Lewis Hamilton
5. Jenson Button
6. Mark Webber
7. Nico Rosberg
8. Kamui Kobayashi
9. Michael Schumacher
10. Sergio Perez
11. Nico Hulkenberg
12. Romain Grosjean
13. Paul Di Resta
14. Heikki Kovalainen
15. Timo Glock
16. Vitaly Petrov
17. Pedro De La Rosa
18. Bruno Senna
19. Pastor Maldonado
20. Daniel Ricciardo
By the way, I tried to think of this as "if I was a team boss, in what order would I be calling drivers to join my team?" I think this is the order. I'd start to get desperate after the first 15.
Edited by Wander, 07 September 2012 - 10:36.
#50
Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:43