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Kimi Raikkonen - Part III


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#901 Alexandros

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 22:46

Getting a "top 2" rating is hard this season.

-Alonso is where he is by enjoying reliability / a fast car with the exception of 3 or 4 races (3 GPs in the start and Hungary) / the "suicides" of his opponents / the presence of rain when it was "needed".

-Vettel is where he is despite unreliability which has cost him points. The car is there or thereabout for most GPs except a few ones where the RBRs struggled a bit, like Monza.

-Hamilton is underperforming due to incidents, penalties + bad reliability. However he's driving great. He has a very competitive car with the exception of 2 GPs in the middle of the season.

-Kimi is where he is due to having a reliable car that is generally quick - but not that quick. He has gained when other committed suicide by taking points that was not his.


Alonso is the obvious #1 in a top2 rating, but the second position is less obvious between Kimi/Hamilton/Vettel.

One can argue "Ok Kimi hasn't got a Mclaren, yet he's beating both Mclaren drivers". But then again, Mclaren is what it is. Their drivers have something like 7 DNFs. Yet it's not like Kimi hadn't problems with his own team - it's just of a different nature... Steering wheel, wrong strategies, tire problems etc. In my estimation they have cost him approximately 30-40 points during the earlier stage of the season. Again, IMO, Spain and Bahrain should've been a Lotus victory and China a strong point finish.

Vettel has had a car which has significant race pace and I think he's delivering strong performances in general. But so does Mark Webber (with 2 wins under his belt) - which indicates the car is quite competitive.

I think it's a very difficult task to place the #2 tag on any one of the three (Vettel/Kimi/Hamilton). There are many rationales that could justify the #2 for any of them.

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#902 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 22:53

i cant believe ppl are actually blaming kimi for winless...

pls focus more on Lotus 's operation side...their blunder in bahrain was really shcoking

and also numerously pitting kimi for wrong compound...or else he could challenge for win in barcelona and hockenheim!


Hungary - kimi deploy his skills in saving tyres, and use it when its due!! However, ppl gave credit to the car, it was obvious that kimi was saving his faster tyre while others pit for fresh medium!!



#903 2ms

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 23:48

There's just a resurgence of trolls due to Kimi being P3. And due to him being candidate for driver of the year. These kinds of things transform reasonable people who are fans of rivals, into seething trolls. The usual advice: please ignore them or else they've achieved their missions of filibustering the thread while having their bs be dignified via appearing to be taken seriously by others.

#904 DarkknightRises

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 23:57

There's just a resurgence of trolls due to Kimi being P3. And due to him being candidate for driver of the year. These kinds of things transform reasonable people who are fans of rivals, into seething trolls. The usual advice: please ignore them or else they've achieved their missions of filibustering the thread while having their bs be dignified via appearing to be taken seriously by others.


haha, true!! =)

#905 weareracing

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 00:01

I cannot believe that any rational F1 fan with any sense of what was expected from Kimi in 2012 can say that he has fallen short.
Kimi has been EXACTLY how I remember him, precise and to the point, doing the best that his equipment (CAR) permits.
Will probably finish 4th in the Drivers Championship behind Alonso/Vettel/Hamilton (no particular order) in a team that had less resources and expectations in 2012 than it's competitors.
A very positive year for the team and TOTALLY justifying their choice of Kimi Raikkonen.


#906 223

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 00:15

So much talk about the speed of Kimi vs Romain regarding qualifying etc...it's really all a bunch of B.S.
With the tires being so unpredictable, this is not a normal year by any stretch of the imagination. So trying to judge how fast someone is based solely on qualifying is hopeful at best, foolish at worst.

Look what happened to Button: fast at the beginning of the year, slow a bit later, then fast again once McLaren put some time and energy into figuring out the tires for his car. He dominated the field at Spa, but then Hamilton did the same thing a race later. How could two guys trade places so dramatically from race to race? The cars are just very hard to set up because of the tires. They work well for some, and not so well for others, and then on top of that this varies from track to track. This phenomenon is happening all over the grid, not just at Lotus.

Given his troubles getting the tires to work during qualifying, for Raikkonen to still be third in the championship in a car that not only isn't consistently the fastest car on the grid, the second fastest or maybe not even the fifth fastest is remarkable. Period. Anyone who argues otherwise, please hook me up with whatever it is you are smoking.

#907 Lights

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 00:37

A good heap of points so far, only driver to have scored in the last 10 races. Still it feels like something is missing. I mean his car has showed excellent pace at numerous occasions either by himself or Grosjean, but Kimi remains invisible in most races. He's just there, always solid, no mistakes, never spectacular. Obviously he's a justified choice for Lotus to bring into their team, and it's still a world champion we're talking about, but it's not like he has set the world on fire. Should've won Bahrain, should've won Hungary. That little bit extra could've made him a serious contender for the title, it's the difference Alonso made this season, and it's hard to argue Kimi has had a worse package overall.

#908 Alexandros

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 01:10

A good heap of points so far, only driver to have scored in the last 10 races. Still it feels like something is missing. I mean his car has showed excellent pace at numerous occasions either by himself or Grosjean, but Kimi remains invisible in most races. He's just there, always solid, no mistakes, never spectacular. Obviously he's a justified choice for Lotus to bring into their team, and it's still a world champion we're talking about, but it's not like he has set the world on fire. Should've won Bahrain, should've won Hungary. That little bit extra could've made him a serious contender for the title, it's the difference Alonso made this season, and it's hard to argue Kimi has had a worse package overall.


In 2003 Kimi was called a cruiser and nothing spectacular. The critics were like "the new regs helped kimi" and stuff like "1 win? Seriously? And he wants to be the WDC by getting podiums? If he takes the WDC it will be the biggest farce ever". When people pointed out the inferiority of the MP4/17, people were like "it's heavily upgraded so it's competitive", lol.

Fact is McLaren this year has been far more competitive than the occassional "burst" of Lotus or Sauber, being VERY competitive for at least 2/3 of the GPs. If you are beating both drivers of the better car with inferior equipment, you're doing something right. And that's what Alonso does also - but Alonso has also been aided by a car with much higher levels of mechanical grip which helped him a lot in rainy situations and qualify (and that extends into the race as well).


#909 grunge

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 02:53

A good heap of points so far, only driver to have scored in the last 10 races. Still it feels like something is missing. I mean his car has showed excellent pace at numerous occasions either by himself or Grosjean, but Kimi remains invisible in most races. He's just there, always solid, no mistakes, never spectacular. Obviously he's a justified choice for Lotus to bring into their team, and it's still a world champion we're talking about, but it's not like he has set the world on fire. Should've won Bahrain, should've won Hungary. That little bit extra could've made him a serious contender for the title, it's the difference Alonso made this season, and it's hard to argue Kimi has had a worse package overall.

Really depends on whether you consider the situation with the relevant context or not,

1.Scenario No.1...2012 in isolation.

I think he's been decent/good but certainly not Extraordinary..A step below Alonso/Hamilton id say..Im not surely about Hungary but definitely could've won the Bahrain GP..he let that one opportunity to overtake Vettel slip..His Qualifying has left much to be desired with RG leading him 7-5.The car's fallen back big time now but was pretty competitive at the start of the season.

2.Scenario No.2...with hindsight of his 2 year Sabbatical

Nothing short of spectacular..id put him on par with Alonso...You have to consider the fact that this guy was driving rally cars for 2 years,..No matter how experienced you are,if you're completely out of the sport for 2 whole years,it would be ridiculously naive to expect him to be on his actual level straightaway..He had no prior experience of Pirellis since he hadn't raced in 2010,had not driven a car with a well developed diffuser or an exhaust blowing system and to top it all off,Lotus couldnt get his Steering to behave the way he wanted..he never moans so though we havent heard of steering issues for the past few weekends,it may still not be a 100% according to his preferences..he's been accustomed to getting it tailor made for him both at Mclaren and Ferrari ,big teams with more resources and technical prowess than Lotus.

Understandably he has struggled with Qualifying/putting that one perfect lap down..we've seen that at the start of the season when he struggled to pull off his three best sectors in one hot lap...he made little mistakes here and there,consequently messing up one of the sectors..that has been exaggerated by the current Pirellis which are unpredictable to say the least..Other than LH,we havent seen anyone being inch perfect on them weekend after weekend this season.Plus he himself mentioned that the steering issues compromised his Qualifying much more than his race.He's been improving though,week after week and finally found his sweet spot in Hungary..hes been faster than his teammate since then,bar the Singapore GP where according to him,his New set in Q2 had less grip than the used set he'd set a time on before.im positive he'll be back to his best one lap pace in Suzuka.

Edited by grunge, 25 September 2012 - 02:54.


#910 Craven Morehead

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:09

Awesome post. A great read, and I must say I agree with all of it down to the word. Kimi's comeback has been very impressive in my estimation.

#911 intelligentsia

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:03

A good heap of points so far, only driver to have scored in the last 10 races. Still it feels like something is missing. I mean his car has showed excellent pace at numerous occasions either by himself or Grosjean, but Kimi remains invisible in most races. He's just there, always solid, no mistakes, never spectacular. Obviously he's a justified choice for Lotus to bring into their team, and it's still a world champion we're talking about, but it's not like he has set the world on fire. Should've won Bahrain, should've won Hungary. That little bit extra could've made him a serious contender for the title, it's the difference Alonso made this season, and it's hard to argue Kimi has had a worse package overall.


People keep on mentioning Bahrain as a race that Kimi should have won. But I think it is debatable, and the fact that Kimi didn't win I wouldn't necessarily call it his mistake either. Lotus gambled there with Kimi's strategy. They decided that Kimi should drop out in qualifying so that he could have new tyres. Yet the problem is one could always wonder if it might have been better to just let Kimi qualify normally, he might have stood a better chance starting higher up on the grid without so many cars to pass. Lotus also had the chance to undercut Vettel, but again at that stage of the season their pitstop where very, very slow it might not have worked. Kimi was on a different strategy from Vettel the whole race, but in the last stint their tyres where about equally old, and when they had the same strategy Vettel was able to keep Kimi behind him. So the speed between Red Bull and Lotus wasn't to different for that race. There could have been a chance to win but it was not that clear cut.

If there was one place where I thought Lotus really stood a chance to win it was Hungary, and surprisingly or not surprising, this was the only race where they, were actually able to qualify on the front row. This is the place where Kimi really messed up in qualifying. Of course he tried to make up for it in the race but then he also had a KERS issue and the race was lost.

Lotus has often been strong when it is hot, or in certain stints of the race. But in general they haven't really got the pace to put it all together over a whole race weekend. What they have also often done is have strategies with very long middle stints and and short stints at the end, this has often made them seem fast but they actually had fresher tyres then the others around them. Sauber often does the same thing. But when you really look at races where they had the same last stint as the front runners then they where not actually able to keep up with them. Germany is a good example where you can really compare the pace at the end between Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull and Lotus, even Sauber was quite a bit faster then them. Or atleast that was when Lotus where still in touch with the front runners.

Right now the situation is really difficult, it is not just that the front runners like Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari are ahead of Lotus, other teams are also faster. In Spa Lotus barely had the pace to beat Force India. In Monza others like Sauber where clearly faster and in Singapore, Williams had more pace. It is not just the top teams, but also some of the other midfield teams that are consistently faster. Therefore when Kimi for example finishes 5th, like in Monza, it doesn't look dramatic and people dont really take notice, but in actual fact it was a big accomplishment. The team thought it was exceptional, but while a 5th place isn't exactly going to make headlines, it will keep you in the championship.

Then there is also the Lotus team to think about. Because they are 3rd in the WDC people expect them act like a front running team and that isn't always the case. They have improved their strategies and pitstops but it still isn't always perfect. Up until about Silverstone both Kimi and Grosjean lost places to other cars almost every single time they had a pitstop, as Lotus's pitstops was often slow and badly timed. People go on at length about Mclaren's pitstop issues but Lotus have also lost lots of positions for their drivers. This weekend again was an example of that. In the first round of pitstops they should obviously have tried to undercut Mercedes. Grosjean lost quite a few positions because of this, and Kimi remained stuck behind Schumacher.
It is easy to forget that Lotus sometimes still have a midfield mentality.

Besides the fact that Kimi has returned from a two year absence, there was also a new team to deal with. It often happens that drivers who return to F1 do so with their old teams or people they know already. Schumacher returned to Mercedes where there were obviously a lot of people from his Ferrari days which would make communication easier. Grosjean also returned to the same team where they already knew him very well and they already knew what he he was looking for in a car. Kimi on the other hand had to start from scratch. And obviously unlike other top teams who've had their driver pairings for a while the car also wasn't designed with any of Kimi's input.
I ve often seen people say that if Alonso, Lewis or Vettel had driven the car they would have had a win now. It is a pretty irrelevant equation in my personal opinion since none of these drivers would have gone to Lotus last year. Lotus had so many issues last year. Even this year, I highly, highly doubt any of those others are dreaming about driving a Lotus this season, I doubt they would exchange their cars this season for a E20.
On the otherhand if we play the exchange driver game. If Lotus had Grosjean and one of their drivers from last year, where would they have been in the championship this year? Would their results really have been that different from last season?
I would say no, they have made an improvement from last year, but it isn't as big as people think. It is Kimi who is making them look like WDC contenders.

Things might not always seem very dramatic around Kimi but he gets the job done, that is why he still up there. In a season such a this one where the cars are close to each other, and with a lot of up and and down performances from the tyres, a driver like Kimi will usually excel, because he is an intelligent racer who knows how to collect points and podiums in a consistent manner. He did the same thing in the year when he won the championship, everyone was just focused on Mclaren all of the time, and in the meantime he was silently sneaking up on them. It might not seem exciting to everyone but it gets the job done and there are people who value exactly these qualities in Kimi.

Edited by intelligentsia, 25 September 2012 - 05:17.


#912 DarkknightRises

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:16

People keep on mentioning Bahrain as a race that Kimi should have won. But I think it is debatable, and the fact that Kimi didn't win I wouldn't necessarily call it his mistake either. Lotus gambled there with Kimi's strategy. They decided that Kimi should drop out in qualifying so that he could have new tyres. Yet the problem is one could always wonder if it might have been better to just let Kimi qualify normally, he might have stood a better chance starting higher up on the grid without so many cars to pass. Lotus also had the chance to undercut Vettel, but again at that stage of the season their pitstop where very, very slow it might not have worked. Kimi was on a different strategy from Vettel the whole race, but in the last stint their tyres where about equally old, and when they had the same strategy Vettel was able to keep Kimi behind him. So the speed between Red Bull and Lotus wasn't to different for that race. There could have been a chance to win but it was not that clear cut.

If there was one place where I thought Lotus really stood a chance to win it was Hungary, and surprisingly or not surprising, this was the only race where they, were actually able to qualify on the front row. This is the place where Kimi really messed up in qualifying. Of course he tried to make up for it in the race but then he also had a KERS issue and the race was lost.

Lotus has often been strong when it is hot, or in certain stints of the race. But in general they haven't really got the pace to put it all together over a whole race weekend. What they have also often done is have strategies with very long middle stints and and short stints at the end, this has often made them seem fast but they actually had fresher tyres then the others around them. Sauber often does the same thing. But when you really look at races where they had the same last stint as the front runners then they where not actually able to keep up with them. Germany is a good example where you can really compare the pace at the end between Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull and Lotus, even Sauber was quite a bit faster then them. Or atleast that was when Lotus where still in touch with the front runners.

Right now the situation is really difficult, it is not just that the front runners like Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari are ahead of Lotus, other teams are also faster. In Spa Lotus barely had the pace to beat Force India. In Monza others like Sauber where clearly faster and in Singapore, Williams had more pace. It is not just the top teams, but also some of the other midfield teams that are consistently faster. Therefore when Kimi for example finishes 5th, like in Monza, it doesn't look dramatic and people dont really take notice, but in actual fact it was a big accomplishment. The team thought it was exceptional, but while a 5th place isn't exactly going to make headlines, it will keep you in the championship.

Then there is also the Lotus team to think about. Because they are 3rd in the WDC people expect them act like a front running team and that isn't always the case. They have improved their strategies and pitstops but it still isn't always perfect. Up until about Silverstone both Kimi and Grosjean lost places to other cars almost every single time they had a pitstop, as Lotus's pitstops was often slow and badly timed. People go on at length about Mclaren's pitstop issues but Lotus have also lost lots of positions for their drivers. This weekend again was an example of that. In the first round of pitstops they should obviously have tried to undercut Mercedes. Grosjean lost quite a few positions because of this, and Kimi remained stuck behind Schumacher.
It is easy to forget that Lotus sometimes still have a midfield mentality.

Besides the fact that Kimi has returned from a two year absence, there was also a new team to deal with. It often happens that drivers who return to F1 do so with their old teams or people they know already. Schumacher returned to Mercedes where there were obviously a lot of people from his Ferrari days which would make communication easier. Grosjean also returned to the same team where they already knew him very well and they already knew what he he was looking for in a car. Kimi on the other hand had to start from scratch. And obviously unlike other top teams who've had their driver pairings for a while the car also wasn't designed with any of Kimi's input.
I ve often seen people say that if Alonso, Lewis or Vettel had driven the car they would have had a win now. It is a pretty irrelevant equation in my personal opinion since none of these drivers would have gone to Lotus last year. Lotus had so many issues last year. Even this year, I highly, highly doubt any of those others are dreaming about driving a Lotus this season, I doubt they would exchange their cars this season for a E20.
On the otherhand if we play the exchange driver game. If Lotus had Grosjean and one of their drivers from last year, where would they have been in the championship this year? Would their results really have been that different from last season?
I would say no, they have made an improvement from last year, but it isn't as big as people think. It is Kimi who is making them look like WDC contenders.

Things might not always seem very dramatic around Kimi but he gets the job done, that is why he still up there. In a season such a this one where the car are close to each other, and with a lot of up and and down performances from the tyres, a driver like Kimi will usually excel, because he is an intelligent racer who knows how to collect points and podiums in consistent manner. He did the same thing in year when he won the championship, everyone was just focused on Mclaren all of the time, and in the meantime he was silently sneaking up on them. It might not seem exciting to everyone but it gets the job done and there are people who value exactly these qualities in Kimi.


you need to get noble prize for summing it up so neatly and well informed!!

#913 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:31

A good heap of points so far, only driver to have scored in the last 10 races. Still it feels like something is missing. I mean his car has showed excellent pace at numerous occasions either by himself or Grosjean, but Kimi remains invisible in most races. He's just there, always solid, no mistakes, never spectacular. Obviously he's a justified choice for Lotus to bring into their team, and it's still a world champion we're talking about, but it's not like he has set the world on fire. Should've won Bahrain, should've won Hungary. That little bit extra could've made him a serious contender for the title, it's the difference Alonso made this season, and it's hard to argue Kimi has had a worse package overall.


Maybe you haven't seen bahrain,hockenheim....he had great racing in those races with some awesome overtaking, two best of the season (on Di Resta at hockenheim and the best overtake of the season far from Schumi at spa). Also he showed magnificent tyre control and pace with old scrubbed tyres against those in news ones at hungary. Should have won bahrain, should have won hungary...I don't agree, look where he started and what he did in those races. Alonso has done magnificently and deserves his lead no doubt about that and Kimi needs podiums/wins to truly be considered championship candidate but to say Kimi hasn't been spectacular is just being silly and downplaying his performances alot.Alonso's advantage in two of his three wins was rain (on race at malaysia and on qualifying at hockenheim) his car is considered to be best on wet conditions, while Lotus struggles in those conditions much more.

Edited by Vesuvius, 25 September 2012 - 05:41.


#914 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 05:40

People keep on mentioning Bahrain as a race that Kimi should have won. But I think it is debatable, and the fact that Kimi didn't win I wouldn't necessarily call it his mistake either. Lotus gambled there with Kimi's strategy. They decided that Kimi should drop out in qualifying so that he could have new tyres. Yet the problem is one could always wonder if it might have been better to just let Kimi qualify normally, he might have stood a better chance starting higher up on the grid without so many cars to pass. Lotus also had the chance to undercut Vettel, but again at that stage of the season their pitstop where very, very slow it might not have worked. Kimi was on a different strategy from Vettel the whole race, but in the last stint their tyres where about equally old, and when they had the same strategy Vettel was able to keep Kimi behind him. So the speed between Red Bull and Lotus wasn't to different for that race. There could have been a chance to win but it was not that clear cut.

If there was one place where I thought Lotus really stood a chance to win it was Hungary, and surprisingly or not surprising, this was the only race where they, were actually able to qualify on the front row. This is the place where Kimi really messed up in qualifying. Of course he tried to make up for it in the race but then he also had a KERS issue and the race was lost.

Lotus has often been strong when it is hot, or in certain stints of the race. But in general they haven't really got the pace to put it all together over a whole race weekend. What they have also often done is have strategies with very long middle stints and and short stints at the end, this has often made them seem fast but they actually had fresher tyres then the others around them. Sauber often does the same thing. But when you really look at races where they had the same last stint as the front runners then they where not actually able to keep up with them. Germany is a good example where you can really compare the pace at the end between Ferrari, Mclaren, Red Bull and Lotus, even Sauber was quite a bit faster then them. Or atleast that was when Lotus where still in touch with the front runners.

Right now the situation is really difficult, it is not just that the front runners like Red Bull, Mclaren and Ferrari are ahead of Lotus, other teams are also faster. In Spa Lotus barely had the pace to beat Force India. In Monza others like Sauber where clearly faster and in Singapore, Williams had more pace. It is not just the top teams, but also some of the other midfield teams that are consistently faster. Therefore when Kimi for example finishes 5th, like in Monza, it doesn't look dramatic and people dont really take notice, but in actual fact it was a big accomplishment. The team thought it was exceptional, but while a 5th place isn't exactly going to make headlines, it will keep you in the championship.

Then there is also the Lotus team to think about. Because they are 3rd in the WDC people expect them act like a front running team and that isn't always the case. They have improved their strategies and pitstops but it still isn't always perfect. Up until about Silverstone both Kimi and Grosjean lost places to other cars almost every single time they had a pitstop, as Lotus's pitstops was often slow and badly timed. People go on at length about Mclaren's pitstop issues but Lotus have also lost lots of positions for their drivers. This weekend again was an example of that. In the first round of pitstops they should obviously have tried to undercut Mercedes. Grosjean lost quite a few positions because of this, and Kimi remained stuck behind Schumacher.
It is easy to forget that Lotus sometimes still have a midfield mentality.

Besides the fact that Kimi has returned from a two year absence, there was also a new team to deal with. It often happens that drivers who return to F1 do so with their old teams or people they know already. Schumacher returned to Mercedes where there were obviously a lot of people from his Ferrari days which would make communication easier. Grosjean also returned to the same team where they already knew him very well and they already knew what he he was looking for in a car. Kimi on the other hand had to start from scratch. And obviously unlike other top teams who've had their driver pairings for a while the car also wasn't designed with any of Kimi's input.
I ve often seen people say that if Alonso, Lewis or Vettel had driven the car they would have had a win now. It is a pretty irrelevant equation in my personal opinion since none of these drivers would have gone to Lotus last year. Lotus had so many issues last year. Even this year, I highly, highly doubt any of those others are dreaming about driving a Lotus this season, I doubt they would exchange their cars this season for a E20.
On the otherhand if we play the exchange driver game. If Lotus had Grosjean and one of their drivers from last year, where would they have been in the championship this year? Would their results really have been that different from last season?
I would say no, they have made an improvement from last year, but it isn't as big as people think. It is Kimi who is making them look like WDC contenders.

Things might not always seem very dramatic around Kimi but he gets the job done, that is why he still up there. In a season such a this one where the cars are close to each other, and with a lot of up and and down performances from the tyres, a driver like Kimi will usually excel, because he is an intelligent racer who knows how to collect points and podiums in a consistent manner. He did the same thing in the year when he won the championship, everyone was just focused on Mclaren all of the time, and in the meantime he was silently sneaking up on them. It might not seem exciting to everyone but it gets the job done and there are people who value exactly these qualities in Kimi.


Great post :up: what makes Kimi's comeback most spectacular in my mind is his lack of mistakes and ability not to have collissions with others, all of the competitors agree that Kimi is great to battle with because he is fair and you know he fights clean but still is difficult to beat....there has been no single collission with other cars or even walls and the guy has been out from single seaters for two years! We can only take look at his team mate who has been part in eight accidents and most of them by his fault either partly or fully and also Schumacher, who was out of the formula 1 for three years...is considered one pf the best of all time, is the most succesfull and second most experienced f1 driver in history and he has done many stupid mistakes and caused lots of accidents... even on last race!


#915 Jovanotti

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:02

In the last few days the vibe of Hamilton going to Merc has been getting stronger again, but at the same time it seems clear now that Kimi is set to stay at Lotus, which is a bit disappointing if there really will be a seat available at McLaren.

Edited by Jovanotti, 25 September 2012 - 07:03.


#916 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 07:52

In the last few days the vibe of Hamilton going to Merc has been getting stronger again, but at the same time it seems clear now that Kimi is set to stay at Lotus, which is a bit disappointing if there really will be a seat available at McLaren.


While it seems likely that he will stay at Lotus for next year...nothing sure until it's announced and according to Robertson it will be announced soon. It could also be that Kimi have contract done for McLaren already for 2014 onwards...who knows.

#917 Alexandros

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:12

If there was one place where I thought Lotus really stood a chance to win it was Hungary, and surprisingly or not surprising, this was the only race where they, were actually able to qualify on the front row. This is the place where Kimi really messed up in qualifying. Of course he tried to make up for it in the race but then he also had a KERS issue and the race was lost.


Hungary is a pretty difficult track to pass. Grosjean was following Hamilton all the way from the start, but couldn't get past despite starting P2. While Kimi was preserving tires behind slower cars in order to make the fast laps before pitting, I don't know if he could do the same behind Hamilton who was "somewhat" faster. On track passing was pretty much out of the question for both Lotuses, so the only way was pit strategy. And even this would need something "extra" to work. A P1-P2 starting grid would probably ensure victory for Lotus though.

On the otherhand if we play the exchange driver game. If Lotus had Grosjean and one of their drivers from last year, where would they have been in the championship this year? Would their results really have been that different from last season?
I would say no, they have made an improvement from last year, but it isn't as big as people think. It is Kimi who is making them look like WDC contenders.


Interestingly, as you point out, Kimi does that by primarily staying consistent / staying out of trouble even if that means losing places at the start or when battling kamikazi drivers / being somewhat slower in Q and significantly faster over a race.

If we check points scored by finish, GRO has 10.25pts / finish while Kimi has 10.64pts / finish. This is not a huge difference, performance wise. But the 10.64 is without taking unnecessary risks, so... its great because all finishes add up and make for a great end result. Kimi, without China (tire strategy that ended up in a DNF-style end result) is at 11.46 pts/finish.

Other drivers (avg pts / finish)

RBR: Web 11 / Vet 13.75
Ferrari: Alonso 14.92 / Massa 3.92
Mclaren: Hamilton 14.2 / Button 10.81
Lotus: Kimi 10.64 / Grosjean 10.25
Mercedes: Rosberg 6.64 / MSC 6.14
Sauber: Perez 6 / Koba 3.5

Massa / Button underperforming significantly even when they do finish. In part this is because of their lower starting position. Kimi negates this effect of lower grid position yet his teammate is not Hamilton or Alonso.

#918 BackOnTop

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:16

While it seems likely that he will stay at Lotus for next year...nothing sure until it's announced and according to Robertson it will be announced soon. It could also be that Kimi have contract done for McLaren already for 2014 onwards...who knows.

Robertson could have even made a pre-agreement for 2014 with RedBull to drive alongside Vettel. Honestly, Mark Webber isn't a force anymore.. and even another year at RBR is a bit tedious I think.

As far as their YDA goes, it will be laughable if RBR is depending on STR drivers to take the fight to guys like Alonso & Hamilton from 2014 onwards. As a matter of fact, Alonso is going to stay on till 2016... so that makes it possible that Vettel will stay in RBR for the same period. I would fail to understand if RBR doesn't go for experience & pace to take on Ferrari & Mclaren in the second seat.... alongside Vettel.

It makes sense to have 2 world champions, both with great experience and quick on track. So no worries in that front if Mclaren doesn't happen.

KIMI & VETTEL= RBR 2014 makes the most sense for all concerned, especially considering how much publicity & worldwide 'serious' F1 fans (like us :p ) RedBull gains instantly. Kimi's personality is made for RedBull.

Edited by BackOnTop, 25 September 2012 - 08:28.


#919 aray

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:24

Robertson could have even made a pre-agreement for 2014 with RedBull to drive alongside Vettel. Honestly, Mark Webber isn't a force anymore.. and even another year at RBR is a bit tedious I think.

As far as their YDA goes, it will be laughable if RBR is depending on STR drivers to take the fight to guys like Alonso & Hamilton from 2014 onwards. As a matter of fact, Alonso is going to stay on till 2016... so that makes it possible that Vettel will stay in RBR for the same period. I would fail to understand if RBR doesn't go for experience & pace to take on Ferrari & Mclaren in the second seat.... and to keep Vettel on his toes.

It makes sense to have 2 world champions, both with great experience and quick on track. So no worries in that front if Mclaren doesn't happen.

RB need not to re-sign him if they thought so....Kimi would have been available for 2013(his 2nd year for Lotus was optional,going by current contract vibe) if they were interested.... :smoking:

Edited by aray, 25 September 2012 - 08:27.


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#920 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:28

Hungary is a pretty difficult track to pass. Grosjean was following Hamilton all the way from the start, but couldn't get past despite starting P2. While Kimi was preserving tires behind slower cars in order to make the fast laps before pitting, I don't know if he could do the same behind Hamilton who was "somewhat" faster. On track passing was pretty much out of the question for both Lotuses, so the only way was pit strategy. And even this would need something "extra" to work. A P1-P2 starting grid would probably ensure victory for Lotus though.



Interestingly, as you point out, Kimi does that by primarily staying consistent / staying out of trouble even if that means losing places at the start or when battling kamikazi drivers / being somewhat slower in Q and significantly faster over a race.

If we check points scored by finish, GRO has 10.25pts / finish while Kimi has 10.64pts / finish. This is not a huge difference, performance wise. But the 10.64 is without taking unnecessary risks, so... its great because all finishes add up and make for a great end result. Kimi, without China (tire strategy that ended up in a DNF-style end result) is at 11.46 pts/finish.

Other drivers (avg pts / finish)

RBR: Web 11 / Vet 13.75
Ferrari: Alonso 14.92 / Massa 3.92
Mclaren: Hamilton 14.2 / Button 10.81
Lotus: Kimi 10.64 / Grosjean 10.25
Mercedes: Rosberg 6.64 / MSC 6.14
Sauber: Perez 6 / Koba 3.5

Massa / Button underperforming significantly even when they do finish. In part this is because of their lower starting position. Kimi negates this effect of lower grid position yet his teammate is not Hamilton or Alonso.


Button only has 9,2 points/race as he has been classified to race results in all but one time. Also Hamilton was classified at Valencia to 19th place so his are 12,9/race. Also Vettel was classified at monza, so his points are 12,7/race


#921 BackOnTop

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:42

RB need not to re-sign him if they thought so....Kimi would have been available for 2013(his 2nd year for Lotus was optional,going by current contract vibe) if they were interested.... :smoking:

They resigned Webber very early this year, which I think they might slightly regret as Webber used Ferrari to dupe RedBull big time. :mad:

And as usual, Mr.Webber once again became the most useless driver in a fast car as soon as he got his contract signed. Webber only performs during the time when his contract needs to be renewed.

I think RBR will be regretting it now considering how they could have had Raikkonen, another World Champion, in their line up from 2013 onwards itself. Rbr & Webber are more emotional tie-up than performance.

#922 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:49

TS wrotes it wouldn't be a miracle if Lewis indeed is going to Mercedes (as it looks) that McLaren wants Kimi back. TS wrotes that Martin Withmarsh (once again) praised Kimi after singapore gp:Withmarsh praising Kimi

TS asked is Withmarsh surprised Kimi is in front of both of their drivers:
" No I'm not, Kimi is a fantastic racing driver. He is just like Fernando Alonso, he always brings his car over the finnish line and collects points. He can avoid almost all the difficult moments during the races. He was fantastic (before comeback) and he is still fantastic...and because of that, he has so many points collected. Withmarsh praised"

#923 swerved

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:12

"Kimi Raikkonen's chances of getting back in the Formula 1 world championship hunt will be boosted by a major upgrade that Lotus is planning for the Korean Grand Prix, AUTOSPORT can reveal."

"There is a big update coming in Korea, a really good aero update - plus we plan to run our rear wing device in Suzuka."


http://www.autosport......com F1 news)

#924 Torsion

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:21

Ok ive had a good look through now, first of all in the qualifyings it appears to be 8-4 in Grosjean's favour so its fair to say that Kimi is not maxmising the car in qualfying, then what i have to take on board is Grosjean, basically a rookie driver, is he really getting the maximum out of the car, or is he 2 to 3 tenths slower than say what Lewis, Alonso or Vettel could get out of the car? 2 or 3 tenths wouldnt turn the car into a car capable of getting poles but certainly a car qualifying 2nd, 3rd and 4th on the grid, also from what i can see poor qualifying cost Kimi in Australia, Monaco, Canada and Singapore, thats a few races.


You appear to suggest that your assumptions are a given, on the contrary, there is absolutely no guarantee that any of the drivers which you mention would have done any better in the E20 if they were put in the car from the beginning of this year.

It is true that these drivers (Lewis, Alonso or Vettel) may to be getting the maximum out of their current cars, but what you forgot to consider is that the cars which they drive, have been designed and built around their preferences, and they have been with their current team for multiple number of years, allowing the teams to have good baseline data/setups for different tracks according to their preferences - allowing them to be much better prepared for each weekend. When they were new in their respective teams, did they get the best out of the cars right away? if you look back you will see that this is an increasingly difficult argument to justify.

If you consider the Lotus drivers, they are driving a car which was not designed around either of them, and the team doesn't have any baseline data for Kimi, and probably a minimum amount of data for Romain. On top of the above, Kimi was away for two years, further compounding the point.

For these reasons, the comparison of the drivers which are attempting to do is rather narrow-minded as it completely ignores the extenuating circumstances.

Edited by Torsion, 25 September 2012 - 09:26.


#925 Lights

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:47

Thank you for all your replies, I didn't expect 2000 words of it though! Sadly can't really reply to everything, although in general you all made fair comments on the fact that he did come out of a sabbatical and is new to the team.

People keep on mentioning Bahrain as a race that Kimi should have won. But I think it is debatable, and the fact that Kimi didn't win I wouldn't necessarily call it his mistake either. Lotus gambled there with Kimi's strategy. They decided that Kimi should drop out in qualifying so that he could have new tyres. Yet the problem is one could always wonder if it might have been better to just let Kimi qualify normally, he might have stood a better chance starting higher up on the grid without so many cars to pass. Lotus also had the chance to undercut Vettel, but again at that stage of the season their pitstop where very, very slow it might not have worked. Kimi was on a different strategy from Vettel the whole race, but in the last stint their tyres where about equally old, and when they had the same strategy Vettel was able to keep Kimi behind him. So the speed between Red Bull and Lotus wasn't to different for that race. There could have been a chance to win but it was not that clear cut.

I didn't actually mean qualifying, but how he made a mistake in the beginning of the race and then spent a few laps fighting with Massa. This cost him valuable seconds and tyre grip that in my view he could have used later to leapfrog or overtake Vettel, given how close that turned out to be. Hence I feel he should've won that one, even with the qualifying he had.

I ve often seen people say that if Alonso, Lewis or Vettel had driven the car they would have had a win now. It is a pretty irrelevant equation in my personal opinion since none of these drivers would have gone to Lotus last year. Lotus had so many issues last year. Even this year, I highly, highly doubt any of those others are dreaming about driving a Lotus this season, I doubt they would exchange their cars this season for a E20.
On the otherhand if we play the exchange driver game. If Lotus had Grosjean and one of their drivers from last year, where would they have been in the championship this year? Would their results really have been that different from last season?
I would say no, they have made an improvement from last year, but it isn't as big as people think. It is Kimi who is making them look like WDC contenders.

Of course none of them would've jumped ship to Lotus last year, that's why the Lotus has been a surprise this year. Truth is Kimi went there because it was his best option for a quick return to F1, and he's lucky they are more competitive than last year. I hate throwing luck around like that, but I've no other way to explain it. Just saying that if you come back after rallying for some years, you can re-enter the sport and have a tough time in a difficult team that just keeps on disappointing. See Schumacher. Kimi himself even commented on that I think, some months ago, saying that it's been harder for Schumacher than for himself. If you leave the sport because you're bored of it and then decide some years later that you want to come back again, it doesn't matter that you're a previous champion, you don't have to expect a red carpet and car with race winning pace.

Anyway I don't agree with the last bit either, even Grosjean has shown race winning pace at several tracks, but ruined his points tally by driving like a noob at many occasions. That's the main strength of Kimi, he never ever screws up a race and for that I certainly respect him a lot.

Things might not always seem very dramatic around Kimi but he gets the job done, that is why he still up there. In a season such a this one where the cars are close to each other, and with a lot of up and and down performances from the tyres, a driver like Kimi will usually excel, because he is an intelligent racer who knows how to collect points and podiums in a consistent manner. He did the same thing in the year when he won the championship, everyone was just focused on Mclaren all of the time, and in the meantime he was silently sneaking up on them. It might not seem exciting to everyone but it gets the job done and there are people who value exactly these qualities in Kimi.

He does get the job done, but also takes advantage of racing situations quite well. Like how he ended up 6th in Singapore, without Schumacher's crash that would've been 9th? (Schumacher, Vergne, which made Grosjean let him by). I'd say Kimi's year is a bit comparable to how Kubica stayed a title contender in 2008 because Hamilton and the Ferrari drivers were crashing into eachother. It's praiseworthy that they're up there in material that isn't always the best, but on the same note it's partly built on others misfortune. And then it's a royal comparison for Kimi because I feel like Kubica's package was less competitive and had to rely even more on consistency than Kimi has to. In 2008 Ferrari and McLaren were clearly up the front while this year it's been a mixture of loads of teams, with perhaps McLaren and Red Bull slightly ahead based on consistency spread over the calender. But Lotus has never been that far behind, and my main point actually is that when the conditions suited the car the best and it was actually the quickest car, Kimi should have simply used that. Like how when it rained, Alonso took the opportunity with 3 hands and put the car on pole. And the next week he'd repeat that when it rained again. And even though his car wasn't quickest in race-trim, he maximized whatever he could and even won Hockenheim purely because of that pole. That's what's missing from Kimi this year, that's all I'm saying. And yes that could probably be put down to new to team/sabbatical, but then again it might not have to be. At the same note I'd probably say he's been the 4th best driver this season so far. I've once again said way too much and I desperately need to get work done.

#926 hijinx

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:20

"Kimi Raikkonen's chances of getting back in the Formula 1 world championship hunt will be boosted by a major upgrade that Lotus is planning for the Korean Grand Prix, AUTOSPORT can reveal."

"There is a big update coming in Korea, a really good aero update - plus we plan to run our rear wing device in Suzuka."


http://www.autosport......com F1 news)

the trouble I have is being convinced since it came from Permane, the one who twists and turns his words as and when he sees fit.

#927 grunge

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:25

Awesome post. A great read, and I must say I agree with all of it down to the word. Kimi's comeback has been very impressive in my estimation.

Thanks.. :wave:

#928 FirstWatt

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:40

Yup, agree wirh Whithmarsh.
Kimi and Alonos, both are able to stay out from trouble most of the time, despite being consistently very quick in the races.

Kimis driving this first season after two years without car to car fighting is very impressive.

#929 wrcva

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:21

grunge & intelligentsia :up:

I am trying to imagine what Fred, Ham, or Seb could have done after driving a WRC car for two years ... getting into E20 on a take it or leave it basis, average setup, no #1 status...

The respect Kimi gets is no coincidence, he leaves his ego at home and simply drives... arguably he is better than before - calmer and more seasoned, and ever more calculating intelligence with the end game in mind, given the package he has... he probably would have been #2 in points right now if he had the right steering from the get go...

Margins are so tight with all the aero, and machine parts that every bit of improvement in making the driver more comfortable and confident in the car will be nothing but boosting the overall competitive advantage of the car+driver combination at the margins... many of his engineers and teammates made that steering note about his unusual tolerance and likeness for extreme oversteer at the levels that were off the charts. At Ferrari, on couple occasions even Michael was shocked that Kimi was happy and won races in an otherwise undriveable steering & suspension setups for his taste... Chris Dyer noted the same issues. DC made similar statements about Kimi's weird steering setups in comparing Kimi vs. his own telemetry in the same corners as to how Kimi would mysteriously come out ahead (and even Mika's telemetry for many corners)... why Lotus is not bending backwards to leverage this gift the guy has is really beyond me...

#930 DarkknightRises

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:26

grunge & intelligentsia :up:

I am trying to imagine what Fred, Ham, or Seb could have done after driving a WRC car for two years ... getting into E20 on a take it or leave it basis, average setup, no #1 status...

The respect Kimi gets is no coincidence, he leaves his ego at home and simply drives... arguably he is better than before - calmer and more seasoned, and ever more calculating intelligence with the end game in mind, given the package he has... he probably would have been #2 in points right now if he had the right steering from the get go...

Margins are so tight with all the aero, and machine parts that every bit of improvement in making the driver more comfortable and confident in the car will be nothing but boosting the overall competitive advantage of the car+driver combination at the margins... many of his engineers and teammates made that steering note about his unusual tolerance and likeness for extreme oversteer at the levels that were off the charts. At Ferrari, on couple occasions even Michael was shocked that Kimi was happy and won races in an otherwise undriveable steering & suspension setups for his taste... Chris Dyer noted the same issues. DC made similar statements about Kimi's weird steering setups in comparing Kimi vs. his own telemetry in the same corners as to how Kimi would mysteriously come out ahead (and even Mika's telemetry for many corners)... why Lotus is not bending backwards to leverage this gift the guy has is really beyond me...



apparently, his sensitiveness on the car allow him to steer the car accurately and correct or simply eliminate the side effect of oversteering a car, hence he can withstand much more oversteer than any1 can. But he require a sensitive and light steering system, which is not normal!! Montoya was complaining with the car for being too oversteer when he first step into mclaren mp4-20......lotus is taking too long to improve that...and kimi did well overcoming that issues

Edited by DarkknightRises, 25 September 2012 - 12:33.


#931 BackOnTop

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:32

Exclusive Niki Lauda Q&A

Q: If Alonso is your leading driver, how do the others line up behind him?
NL: The usual suspects: Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, Jenson Button and Kimi Raikkonen.

Q: Raikkonen is third in the standings, even though he hasn’t yet won a race this year. Is it possible to have a win-less champion?
NL: Why not? The fascinating thing with Kimi is that he came back and didn’t need any warm-up time. It’s as if he had never been away. Fantastic.

Q: You were also a comeback kid and you won your third race after your return. In those circumstances, is there a worry you might have lost ‘it’?
NL: It depends. Kimi came back as if he hadn’t been away for two years. He was fighting immediately at the top. You cannot ask for more.

Q: Does that speak volumes about Raikkonen or about his peers?
NL: About Kimi. He’s the one who makes it happen.


http://www.formula1....12/9/13843.html

Edited by BackOnTop, 25 September 2012 - 12:35.


#932 BackOnTop

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:35

Exclusive Niki Lauda Q&A
Q: You were also a comeback kid and you won your third race after your return. In those circumstances, is there a worry you might have lost ‘it’?
NL: It depends. Kimi came back as if he hadn’t been away for two years. He was fighting immediately at the top. You cannot ask for more.

Q: Does that speak volumes about Raikkonen or about his peers?
NL: About Kimi. He’s the one who makes it happen. [/i]

:up: :up: :up:

Real drivers know who other real racers are! Like Niki Lauda said.... Kimi is the one making it happen on track.

Edited by MightyMoose, 25 September 2012 - 17:56.
This one is for Kimi Haters & Bashers currently infesting here.... who think their OPINION about Kimi Raikkonen really matters. <- Flamebait


#933 OSX

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 12:49

Whitmarsh Praises Raikkonen
25 September 2012

Posted Image

TS wrotes it wouldn't be a miracle if Lewis indeed is going to Mercedes (as it looks) that McLaren wants Kimi back. TS wrotes that Martin Withmarsh (once again) praised Kimi after singapore gp.

TS asked is Withmarsh surprised Kimi is in front of both of their drivers:

"No I'm not, Kimi is a fantastic racing driver. He is just like Fernando Alonso, he always brings his car over the finnish line and collects points. He can avoid almost all the difficult moments during the races. He was fantastic (before comeback) and he is still fantastic...and because of that, he has so many points collected." Withmarsh praised.

http://www.ts.fi/moo...kosen varmuutta

So there's still hope left. Thanks! :up:

#934 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 13:03

:up: :up: :up:

Real drivers know who other real racers are! Like Niki Lauda said.... Kimi is the one making it happen on track.


Yes good words from Niki :up: also current drivers have praised Kimi...example Webber and Button who said it's amazing how strong Kimi has been and he can only imagine how strong he would have been if he had been in F1 last year already.

#935 OSX

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 13:11

"Kimi Raikkonen's chances of getting back in the Formula 1 world championship hunt will be boosted by a major upgrade that Lotus is planning for the Korean Grand Prix, AUTOSPORT can reveal."

"There is a big update coming in Korea, a really good aero update - plus we plan to run our rear wing device in Suzuka."

http://www.autosport......com F1 news)

It's hard not to take that as nothing else than the usual Lotus PR bullcrap at this point but I do hope they'll prove me wrong.


#936 Sith

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 13:22

There is no 'hope'... That is only in the minds of us Kimi fans who want to see him back @ Mclaren... Kimi is happy @ Lotus.. He is not 'driven' to win another title at all costs.. If he was, he would've taken the Red Bull or Mclaren offers 3 years ago.. He knows it's all PR work at Mclaren... Maybe Lotus can step up abit?? He WILL return to rally in a few years, knowing what it now takes to get to the top...

Meantime.. We want to see him win a few races..

On behalf of all Kimi fans... The suffering continues....

#937 swerved

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 13:44

It's hard not to take that as nothing else than the usual Lotus PR bullcrap at this point but I do hope they'll prove me wrong.


Me also, and i agree, we've heard such positivity before, lets hope this time it means something :up:


#938 OSX

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 14:11

There is no 'hope'... That is only in the minds of us Kimi fans who want to see him back @ Mclaren... Kimi is happy @ Lotus.. He is not 'driven' to win another title at all costs.. If he was, he would've taken the Red Bull or Mclaren offers 3 years ago.. He knows it's all PR work at Mclaren...

You could well be correct but that would mean that Kimi spilling "we have options to several [teams]" this past weekend was nothing but a negotiating ploy from Kimi's camp. Could be the case but taking into consideration Kimi's hailed return to the sport and the uncertain driver situation at McLaren, Mercedes – and Ferrari – the Robertsons have undoubtedly been in discussions with all of them and as long there's no official announcement made I would say that there's still at least a glimmer of hope left that Kimi moves to bigger team with bigger resources.

#939 Sith

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:09

Spoke to Kulta after race... He said Kimi is DEF staying @ Lotus!! Kimi is not a fan of the 'PR duties' that come with being a Mclaren driver... He loves the atmosphere Lotus.. A move elsewhere would put more 'restrictions' on his freedom.. Said Kulta...

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#940 Sammyosammy

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:19

Spoke to Kulta after race... He said Kimi is DEF staying @ Lotus!! Kimi is not a fan of the 'PR duties' that come with being a Mclaren driver... He loves the atmosphere Lotus.. A move elsewhere would put more 'restrictions' on his freedom.. Said Kulta...


IMO he's staying for sure. But...when it comes to Mr. Kulta. The guy has that good relationship with Kimi and R's that he would be the first one not to trust in. This time of year I mean :wave:


#941 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:54

IMO he's staying for sure. But...when it comes to Mr. Kulta. The guy has that good relationship with Kimi and R's that he would be the first one not to trust in. This time of year I mean :wave:


actually he should be trusted, Kimi told him first that he would leave formula 1 and go rally instead and Kimi also told his wish to comeback to formula 1 for Heikki Kulta in may last year. He also have other sources now then just Kimi...Team Lotus people and Robertsons.

#942 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:57

Spoke to Kulta after race... He said Kimi is DEF staying @ Lotus!! Kimi is not a fan of the 'PR duties' that come with being a Mclaren driver... He loves the atmosphere Lotus.. A move elsewhere would put more 'restrictions' on his freedom.. Said Kulta...


for sure he will stay...only minor details were not clear and contract wasn't done yet until now at singapore. I'm quite sure however that this time McLaren would give some more freedom for Kimi and less pr work, if they really would try to get him.

#943 OSX

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 18:07

Spoke to Kulta after race... He said Kimi is DEF staying @ Lotus!! Kimi is not a fan of the 'PR duties' that come with being a Mclaren driver... He loves the atmosphere Lotus.. A move elsewhere would put more 'restrictions' on his freedom.. Said Kulta...

I know and like I said you might very well be right but until an official announcement is made nothing's absolutely certain. And while Kulta knows Kimi and the Robertsons he is just guessing just like the rest of us.

#944 grunge

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 18:41

Nothing is set in stone...HK is reliable but he's also not going to leak any info that KR and the Robertsons dont want him to.

If LH goes,Mclaren will go after Raikkonen..i firmly believe that.there is no way i can see them going into 2013 with a Button/Perez or Button/DResta lineup

#945 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 18:46

..

If we check points scored by finish, GRO has 10.25pts / finish while Kimi has 10.64pts / finish. This is not a huge difference, performance wise. But the 10.64 is without taking unnecessary risks, so... its great because all finishes add up and make for a great end result. Kimi, without China (tire strategy that ended up in a DNF-style end result) is at 11.46 pts/finish.

Other drivers (avg pts / finish)

RBR: Web 11 / Vet 13.75
Ferrari: Alonso 14.92 / Massa 3.92
Mclaren: Hamilton 14.2 / Button 10.81
Lotus: Kimi 10.64 / Grosjean 10.25
Mercedes: Rosberg 6.64 / MSC 6.14
Sauber: Perez 6 / Koba 3.5

Massa / Button underperforming significantly even when they do finish. In part this is because of their lower starting position. Kimi negates this effect of lower grid position yet his teammate is not Hamilton or Alonso.

I think just like DNFs crippled races/qualy must also be discarded for this calculation.
Canada: Kimi's qualy was hampered by a differential problem that cost him time as estimated by team which would have put him faster than Grosjean.
Malaysia: Grid penalty for gear box change.
Australia: Team mistake in not informing him that there was time to do another lap.
There were a couple of KERS issues in qualy/races.
China: As you mentioned, risky podium strategy instead of safe points finish.

What Grosjean has had race-terminating failures, Kimi has had as crippling held-backs. Incorporating that Kimi's average goes up to 12.9.

#946 Torsion

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 18:50

Nothing is set in stone...HK is reliable but he's also not going to leak any info that KR and the Robertsons dont want him to.

If LH goes,Mclaren will go after Raikkonen..i firmly believe that.there is no way i can see them going into 2013 with a Button/Perez or Button/DResta lineup


Personally I don't mind Kimi sticking around at Lotus - if the team can deliver a good car, which I think they will do since rules do not change much - he will probably have a really good chance at the title next year with them. Having said that, even if Lewis doesn't move, there is an increasing chance that there might be an opening at Mercedes, and Norbert might have his eyes set on Kimi - probably why Kimi said that he has options?

Edited by Torsion, 25 September 2012 - 18:51.


#947 grunge

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 19:06

Personally I don't mind Kimi sticking around at Lotus - if the team can deliver a good car, which I think they will do since rules do not change much - he will probably have a really good chance at the title next year with them. Having said that, even if Lewis doesn't move, there is an increasing chance that there might be an opening at Mercedes, and Norbert might have his eyes set on Kimi - probably why Kimi said that he has options?

While regulations wont change much next year,i can still see Lotus falling behind because of the fact that they have the most basic of exhaust blowing solutions of all teams..Merc was the last team to bring in the coanda solution in Singapore..that leaves just Lotus behind..I cant think of any logical reason why that wont hurt them next year as they wont have any of the data that the current teams have,since they have advanced their Exhausts repeatedly this season..How are they going to improve traction out of corners?..Infact we might even be seeing that already as Permane admitted theyve fallen back and need to bring a big aero update for Korea.

I for one cant see him going to Mercedes..i think Ross Brawn has never liked KR and also the latter would be thinking twice before moving considering the form Mercedes has shown over the last 3 years.A move to Mclaren would be the safest deal,but ofcourse that depends on Lewis leaving or staying.

Edited by grunge, 25 September 2012 - 19:08.


#948 Vesuvius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 19:15

While regulations wont change much next year,i can still see Lotus falling behind because of the fact that they have the most basic of exhaust blowing solutions of all teams..Merc was the last team to bring in the coanda solution in Singapore..that leaves just Lotus behind..I cant think of any logical reason why that wont hurt them next year as they wont have any of the data that the current teams have,since they have advanced their Exhausts repeatedly this season..How are they going to improve traction out of corners?..Infact we might even be seeing that already as Permane admitted theyve fallen back and need to bring a big aero update for Korea.

I for one cant see him going to Mercedes..i think Ross Brawn has never liked KR and also the latter would be thinking twice before moving considering the form Mercedes has shown over the last 3 years.A move to Mclaren would be the safest deal,but ofcourse that depends on Lewis leaving or staying.



Ross has never have anything against Kimi, he praised him when Kimi was in ferrari and won the title. he did however tell some false messages to press that Kimi asked too much money to drive for them 2010.

Edited by Vesuvius, 25 September 2012 - 19:16.


#949 glorius&victorius

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 19:27

LH wants 15 million?
Kimi will do the job for 10 million!

Come on Martin Whitmarsh, just do it!

Edited by glorius&victorius, 25 September 2012 - 19:29.


#950 grunge

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 19:28

Ross has never have anything against Kimi, he praised him when Kimi was in ferrari and won the title. he did however tell some false messages to press that Kimi asked too much money to drive for them 2010.

Ross made a statement in late 2009 along the lines of ''He(KR) and his management are acting as if they arent getting any compensation from Ferrari'' referring to KR's negotiations with Mclaren and then Mercedes.i thought it was a pretty needless and disrespectful thing to say