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Lewis Hamilton - Part III


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#3601 garoidb

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 20:53

Hint : 2007. :)


If by that you mean that some people set great store by the WDC order below first place, then I see the connection.

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#3602 slmk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 20:59

I would not go that far, but it is hardly a positive trend. He needs to break it soon, don't you think?

The key takeaway is that it will be decided over the next two races, and is the real situation rather than an imaginary one. However, as I stated, I believe the WCC dice between Ferrari and McLaren for 2nd place to be of more significant interest.


Position in the WDC is sometimes irrelevant, though. Delta to the actual winner is, in these cases, a lot better to comprehensively analyse a situation.

Example. Lewis finished 4th in 2010, but was in mathematical contention right up until the end. Didn't put a foot wrong except for 2 moments (SIN, ITA) and comprehensively beat his teammate on the head-to-head. While Button was mathematically in until 1 or 2 GPs before the end, he was never considered a threat due to the fact that in most cases he was finishing behind his teammate (barring DNFs).

2011: Button is 2nd, LH 5th, but Button was a distant 2nd. Who cares about being 2nd when you can't even contend mathematically.

In 2012: LH has been dogged by team issues and reliability. When you realise his teammate is right behind him with a dozen point less, you realize somewhere LH's season went wrong. And it's certainly not his driving.

Oh, and 2009, Lewis would have never finished in the Top 3 - his car was just not fast enough. He did score the most point out of anybody in the 2nd half of the season, and that's despite a DNF from 1st in Abu Dhabi and a DNF from 3rd in Italy.

Using position is fine most of the time, but I personally would rather use delta to 1st in some cases (like 2011 for instance, or even 2010).

Edited by slmk, 16 November 2012 - 21:05.


#3603 garoidb

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:08

Position in the WDC is often irrelevant. Delta to the actual winner is sometimes a lot better to comprehensively analyse a situation.

Example. Lewis finished 4th in 2010, but was in mathematical contention right up until the end. Didn't put a foot wrong except for 2 moments (SIN, ITA) and comprehensively beat his teammate on the head-to-head. While Button was mathematically in until 1 or 2 GPs before the end, he was never considered a threat due to the fact that in most cases he was finishing behind his teammate (barring DNFs).

2011: Button is 2nd, LH 5th, but Button was a distant 2nd. Who cares about being 2nd when you can't even contend mathematically.

In 2012: LH has been dogged by team issues and reliability. When you realise his teammate is right behind him with a dozen point less, you realize somewhere LH's season went wrong. And it's certainly not his driving.

Oh, and 2009, Lewis would have never finished in the Top 3 - his car was just not fast enough. He did score the most point out of anybody in the 2nd half of the season, and that's despite a DNF from 1st in Abu Dhabi and a DNF from 3rd in Italy.

Using position is fine most of the time, but I personally would rather use delta to 1st.


Generally, I consider the number of seasons in which driver has strongly contended for the WDC until late in the season to be a good indication of career prominence. On that basis, 2010 (and 2007) would count for Lewis, whereas 2011 wouldn't for Button. That much I can agree with. Lewis needs more seasons like those, and soon. Over a career, the bad luck argument does not really cut it for me.


#3604 revlec

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:11

If by that you mean that some people set great store by the WDC order below first place, then I see the connection.


Anyway using your "real world" logic, I should remind you that ALO has won his last WDC in 2006, and this year could be his last chance because I believe if VET does it this year, he will be in Ferrari in 2014(remember what they did to MSC in 2006 and RAI in 2009).

The "irony" is that MAS could finish his career(next year will be his chance to show he can score big points) there and drive alongside VET.

Ferrari will never have ALO and VET as teammates.

Edited by MightyMoose, 16 November 2012 - 22:47.
NO.. I only think you are not "[u]nice[/u]" to HAM like you wanted us to believe. At least other guys(Halifax, as65) are honest about what they think and they don't refrain from showing their true colours. <- Personal attack, let it go


#3605 Lazy

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:11

Using position is fine most of the time, but I personally would rather use whatever statistical method makes Hammy look best.



#3606 SmokeScreen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:24

http://www.dailymail...Ross-Brawn.html

its his prospective team principle stepping up on his behalf, against his current one ironically, but its still refreshing that someone now has Lewis’ back!!
looking forward to more of the same next season perhaps then the likes of yours truly & other media outlets will back away from their current stealth attack policy. no?


in the meantime
.
.
.its your turn Martin

#3607 SmokeScreen

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:30

OK ---team principal meeting response

-he was misquoted and context removed (was it an autosport exclusive? i forgot)but he is sure Lewis will do a great job for Mercedes next year
:cool:



epic TP briefing btw - the caterham guy just tole them ALL (including elitest top 3 spokesman whitmarsh)what for - re: so called pay drivers

he is fiesty

Edited by SmokeScreen, 16 November 2012 - 21:40.


#3608 garoidb

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:36

I am an Alonso fan, and there is no doubt about that from my posts. It is not a question of liking or not liking Hamilton. He certainly annoyed me in 2011, but that phase seems to have passed. However, I think Hamilton is, or at least should be, a top three driver. I therefore think he needs to do better in the world championship than he has been doing, and he has a chance to do just that in the next two races.

Anyway using your "real world" logic, I should remind you that ALO has won his last WDC in 2006, and this year could be his last chance because I believe if VET does it this year, he will be in Ferrari in 2014(remember what they did to MSC in 2006 and RAI in 2009).

The "irony" is that MAS could finish his career(next year will be his chance to show he can score big points) there and drive alongside VET.

Ferrari will never have ALO and VET as teammates.


So, it is clear you know I am an Alonso fan (see above). I think he deserves the WDC this year, but I am not too worried about that. It has been a good campaign, with great drives and he has stayed in contention throughout the season. Hence, it counts as a great season no matter what happens. He has his WDCs.

#3609 Kvothe

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:42

I am an Alonso fan, and there is no doubt about that from my posts. It is not a question of liking or not liking Hamilton. He certainly annoyed me in 2011, but that phase seems to have passed. However, I think Hamilton is, or at least should be, a top three driver. I therefore think he needs to do better in the world championship than he has been doing, and he has a chance to do just that in the next two races.



So, it is clear you know I am an Alonso fan (see above). I think he deserves the WDC this year, but I am not too worried about that. It has been a good campaign, with great drives and he has stayed in contention throughout the season. Hence, it counts as a great season no matter what happens. He has his WDCs.


I would like to hear your opinion on what you think he needs to do better? I don't know if you've noticed but he's had a technical issue or failure in every race since his win in Monza, and has lost two races leading from the front because of them.

Edited by Kvothe, 16 November 2012 - 21:43.


#3610 revlec

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 21:56

So, it is clear you know I am an Alonso fan (see above). I think he deserves the WDC this year, but I am not too worried about that. It has been a good campaign, with great drives and he has stayed in contention throughout the season. Hence, it counts as a great season no matter what happens. He has his WDCs.


Of course I know you are a fan of ALO. I honestly think(at this moment) you are using your energy in the wrong thread.
Have a look at VET records. http://en.wikipedia....ebastian_Vettel

If VET wins the last two races, he will be 3xWDC with 29 wins(1 win less than ALO's 30 ). Scary right??!!


#3611 garoidb

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:03

I would like to hear your opinion on what you think he needs to do better? I don't know if you've noticed but he's had a technical issue or failure in every race since his win in Monza, and has lost two races leading from the front because of them.


You have missed my point somewhat. I did not say he needs to drive better, I said he needs better results. In the short term, there is good and bad luck, but in the long term, that is still his responsibility in that he needs to make good decisions about which team to drive for, and he needs to do enough to make sure the best teams are motivated to hire him.

#3612 garoidb

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:05

Of course I know you are a fan of ALO. I honestly think(at this moment) you are using your energy in the wrong thread.
Have a look at VET records. http://en.wikipedia....ebastian_Vettel

If VET wins the last two races, he will be 3xWDC with 29 wins(1 win less than ALO's 30 ). Scary right??!!


I have nothing against Vettel. He is a great driver. I would like to see him in a different team at some point though, maybe Ferrari for 2014 as has been suggested.

Edit: and you are right, we are wandering off topic.

Edited by garoidb, 16 November 2012 - 22:07.


#3613 ayali

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:15

Of course I know you are a fan of ALO. I honestly think(at this moment) you are using your energy in the wrong thread.
Have a look at VET records. http://en.wikipedia....ebastian_Vettel

If VET wins the last two races, he will be 3xWDC with 29 wins(1 win less than ALO's 30 ). Scary right??!!

You know what is scary, you 2 discussing Vettel and Alonso in Lewis' thread.
I know Lewis is out of contention for the title but damn discussing the 2012 title contenders in the man's own thread is down right disrespectful ;)

#3614 Alarcon

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 22:53

Although your argument is reasonable, no doubt you would be repeatedly highlighting Seb's bad luck if he were in the same position as Hamilton is now rather than leading the WDC...



Seb had very bad luck at Malaysia (Narain), Monza, Valencia and Abu Dabi. He also had very bad luck at 2010 when he lost 3 races from the lead (bahrein, australia and korea) just because mechanical issues. However despite all his bad luck he finally reached the WDC and now is leading.

Bad luck is part of the game and the game is not only a driver but a driver+team.

What "I would say in the case..." doesn´t change any opinion, and this is LH thread, not SV thread. This season LH changed the impression I had about him last seasons, and in my case maybe that´s more important than achieve a WDC. However I can´t find a lot of "supporters" able to change their mind... or admit it.

About the bold please don´t take the opinions on the personal way.

Edited by Alarcon, 16 November 2012 - 22:56.


#3615 slmk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 23:19

Generally, I consider the number of seasons in which driver has strongly contended for the WDC until late in the season to be a good indication of career prominence. On that basis, 2010 (and 2007) would count for Lewis, whereas 2011 wouldn't for Button. That much I can agree with. Lewis needs more seasons like those, and soon. Over a career, the bad luck argument does not really cut it for me.


Contender for WDC: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012
Not contender: 2009 (slow car), 2011

Pretty good record if you ask me. 2 months ago he was favourite to overwhelm Alonso before his gearbox gave up mid-race in Singapore.

You can't just look at points and decide if X driver was contender or not.

Kimi 2012 and Jenson 2010 roughly had the same kind of season. Very few mistakes but also lack of a "killer" pace on most occasions. Kimi will likely finish 3rd - was he a contender at any point? On the other hand, LH will likely finish behind Kimi, but in the eyes of his rivals, was a much more dangerous contender given the car's pace and his driving.

#3616 slmk

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 23:21

I am an Alonso fan, and there is no doubt about that from my posts. It is not a question of liking or not liking Hamilton. He certainly annoyed me in 2011, but that phase seems to have passed. However, I think Hamilton is, or at least should be, a top three driver. I therefore think he needs to do better in the world championship than he has been doing, and he has a chance to do just that in the next two races.



So, it is clear you know I am an Alonso fan (see above). I think he deserves the WDC this year, but I am not too worried about that. It has been a good campaign, with great drives and he has stayed in contention throughout the season. Hence, it counts as a great season no matter what happens. He has his WDCs.


What? 2012 is probably Lewis' finest season. There's literally nothing he could have done better - except for letting Maldonado overtake him but now, in the grand scheme of things, it's only 12 points lost against 60+ lost by McLaren through reliability, bad pit stops and wrong judgement in qualifying (Spain).

I think you are letting the points tally influence your judgement a bit too much.

#3617 scheivlak

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 23:28

Lewis wants to live in America "for the weather and lifestyle":
http://www.guardian....live-in-america


Interesting remark apart from the America stuff : "I was very fortunate to arrive at McLaren at the right time and we were competitive. It was just unfortunate we could not continue to do that every year. If we had, then it would be a bit of a different story."

Edited by scheivlak, 16 November 2012 - 23:31.


#3618 Kvothe

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:31

Lewis wants to live in America "for the weather and lifestyle":
http://www.guardian....live-in-america


Interesting remark apart from the America stuff : "I was very fortunate to arrive at McLaren at the right time and we were competitive. It was just unfortunate we could not continue to do that every year. If we had, then it would be a bit of a different story."


Contex:

It's nice. The cars are all big, the roads are big. It's just a nice, relaxed lifestyle.



This is the first year since 2008 that McLaren have built a competitive car, judging by Lewis' performances in 2009, and in 2010, he's damn right it would have been a different story.

Edited by Kvothe, 17 November 2012 - 01:31.


#3619 pinkypants

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:34

Posted Image


http://www.dailymail...lmet-again.html

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#3620 Obi Offiah

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:55

http://www.dailymail...lmet-again.html

:rotfl: funny to see someone get so wound up over such a thing.

#3621 garoidb

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 04:30

Contender for WDC: 2007, 2008, 2010, 2012
Not contender: 2009 (slow car), 2011


No, the principal season long contenders in 2012 have been Alonso and Vettel. Hamilton dropped out of realistic contention five or six races before the end.

Pretty good record if you ask me. 2 months ago he was favourite to overwhelm Alonso before his gearbox gave up mid-race in Singapore.


He was still a long way behind even then.

You can't just look at points and decide if X driver was contender or not.


To decide whether a driver was a season-long contender for the WDC, points are really the main issue.

Kimi 2012 and Jenson 2010 roughly had the same kind of season. Very few mistakes but also lack of a "killer" pace on most occasions. Kimi will likely finish 3rd - was he a contender at any point? On the other hand, LH will likely finish behind Kimi, but in the eyes of his rivals, was a much more dangerous contender given the car's pace and his driving.


I don't regard Kimi as having been a season long contender for the WDC either. Nearly, like Lewis, but ultimately out of it with several races left.

#3622 senna da silva

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:09

No, the principal season long contenders in 2012 have been Alonso and Vettel. Hamilton dropped out of realistic contention five or six races before the end.



He was still a long way behind even then.



To decide whether a driver was a season-long contender for the WDC, points are really the main issue.



I don't regard Kimi as having been a season long contender for the WDC either. Nearly, like Lewis, but ultimately out of it with several races left.


:drunk:

#3623 whitevisor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:22

No, the principal season long contenders in 2012 have been Alonso and Vettel. Hamilton dropped out of realistic contention five or six races before the end.



He was still a long way behind even then.



To decide whether a driver was a season-long contender for the WDC, points are really the main issue.



I don't regard Kimi as having been a season long contender for the WDC either. Nearly, like Lewis, but ultimately out of it with several races left.


Lewis the driver and the MP4-27 Machine were SOLID Championship contenders. The car driver package was a championship dominating package. Things just got terribly unfortunate.


#3624 Lazy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 06:26

Lewis the driver and the MP4-27 Machine were SOLID Championship contenders. The car driver package was a championship dominating package. Things just got terribly unfortunate.


Like they always seem to with Lewis.

#3625 moorsey

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:05

Like they always seem to with Lewis.


And he's still faster than Jenson.

#3626 Alarcon

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:14

Lewis the driver and the MP4-27 Machine were SOLID Championship contenders. The car driver package was a championship dominating package. Things just got terribly unfortunate.


I won´t say "dominating" because even if McLaren has been the dominating car on qualy., in the race RB, Ferrari and Lotus were as fast and even faster (depending the circuit) overall.

Lewis did a great job and all of his supporters and McLaren crew must be very proud.

Edited by Alarcon, 17 November 2012 - 07:18.


#3627 Guizotia

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 07:51

:rotfl: funny to see someone get so wound up over such a thing.


I love the DM comments:

"That man is an over-confident, egotistical, vile piece of filth."

Go H.A.M.!

#3628 oligc94

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:05

Seb had very bad luck at Malaysia (Narain), Monza, Valencia and Abu Dabi. He also had very bad luck at 2010 when he lost 3 races from the lead (bahrein, australia and korea) just because mechanical issues. However despite all his bad luck he finally reached the WDC and now is leading.

Bad luck is part of the game and the game is not only a driver but a driver+team.

What "I would say in the case..." doesn´t change any opinion, and this is LH thread, not SV thread. This season LH changed the impression I had about him last seasons, and in my case maybe that´s more important than achieve a WDC. However I can´t find a lot of "supporters" able to change their mind... or admit it.

About the bold please don´t take the opinions on the personal way.


Somewhat illustrated my point.

Anyway, I do agree that bad luck is an inherent part of F1, but the difference between Lewis and Seb is that the latter's bad luck did not cost him titles. The same cannot, unfortunately, be said for Lewis...

EDIT: It's good to hear that this season has changed your opinion on LH. Changing their minds is not something that many posters do so easily!

Edited by oligc94, 17 November 2012 - 09:07.


#3629 jjcale

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:16

http://www.dailymail...lmet-again.html


If anyone could upstage Formula One's return to the United States amid a potential championship decider with one crass act it was Lewis Hamilton in practice.

:drunk:

This is the "topic sentence" from the article.. so its written by Jonathan McEvoy himself ... he cant blame the subeditor... the guy knew exactly what he was doing with this hit piece.

Is this the kind of story that we are to expect next year once LH leaves Macca's PR umbrella to drive for that "German" team based out in Brackley??

#3630 peroa

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:23

Maybe it means HardAsMercedes, at least that's what Nobby said jokingly...
:smoking:

Edited by peroa, 17 November 2012 - 09:23.


#3631 Alarcon

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 09:47

Somewhat illustrated my point.

Anyway, I do agree that bad luck is an inherent part of F1, but the difference between Lewis and Seb is that the latter's bad luck did not cost him titles. The same cannot, unfortunately, be said for Lewis...

EDIT: It's good to hear that this season has changed your opinion on LH. Changing their minds is not something that many posters do so easily!



Of course I always said I consider him a very talented driver, in fact I always said Seb and him are the best pure talents in terms of sheer speed since the last 20 years ago (since I´m following this sport).

However I always though he is a driver for a race but not for a whole championship. This season since the beggining Lewis proved how wrong I was and he has been on the top 3 in terms of consistency. However I still have the perception he´s better driver (where he really shines) starting from the midfield than from the pole and also he is not as good as the other top drivers handling the pressure. But this last one is still to prove.

What I really admired from him is he has any problem facing fast drivers on his own team, well Button is not a "fastest driver", but still a WDC and one of the best drivers on the grid, the same when he faced Alonso and next season Rosberg, an amazing and fast driver. That proves he´s confident about himself and fearless and I really admire it. Otherwise... I still "hate" him because he choosed Mercedes instead of RB!

Edited by Alarcon, 17 November 2012 - 09:55.


#3632 Peter Perfect

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:07

:drunk:

This is the "topic sentence" from the article.. so its written by Jonathan McEvoy himself ... he cant blame the subeditor... the guy knew exactly what he was doing with this hit piece.

Is this the kind of story that we are to expect next year once LH leaves Macca's PR umbrella to drive for that "German" team based out in Brackley??

Depends if you rely on the Daily Heil as your only source of news/opinion.

#3633 jrg19

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:20

:lol: HAM

#3634 royalblue0

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 11:44

Maybe it means HardAsMercedes, at least that's what Nobby said jokingly...
:smoking:



Or Hell at McLaren perhaps


#3635 whitevisor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:00

Of course I always said I consider him a very talented driver, in fact I always said Seb and him are the best pure talents in terms of sheer speed since the last 20 years ago (since I´m following this sport).

However I always though he is a driver for a race but not for a whole championship. This season since the beggining Lewis proved how wrong I was and he has been on the top 3 in terms of consistency. However I still have the perception he´s better driver (where he really shines) starting from the midfield than from the pole and also he is not as good as the other top drivers handling the pressure. But this last one is still to prove.

What I really admired from him is he has any problem facing fast drivers on his own team, well Button is not a "fastest driver", but still a WDC and one of the best drivers on the grid, the same when he faced Alonso and next season Rosberg, an amazing and fast driver. That proves he´s confident about himself and fearless and I really admire it. Otherwise... I still "hate" him because he choosed Mercedes instead of RB!


Stop trying so hard to fit Lewis into that little pocket in your mind where you can fathom him. And how do you know Button is not fast? If Hamilton was 1 tenth faster than Alonso, that would only leave Button 1 to 3 tenths behind Alonso. Which is still freaking fast - Considering Massa who at his best is a tenth or two down on Alonso, has shown that he is faster than Kimi.

It seems Hamilton must be the weakest driver the way people attribute him so many weaknesses :rolleyes: . I so want Hamilton to join RedBull and show Vettel up. That would make my F1 world complete.

Edited by whitevisor, 17 November 2012 - 12:01.


#3636 whitevisor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:04

:rotfl: funny to see someone get so wound up over such a thing.


You know right? :rotfl:

It's just a song John you old buzzard!

Edited by whitevisor, 17 November 2012 - 12:06.


#3637 P123

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:13

Depends if you rely on the Daily Heil as your only source of news/opinion.


Yeah... he probably gives them palpatations by simply not being English enough.

#3638 Sinceref189

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 13:34

Or Hell at McLaren perhaps

:rotfl:

#3639 Viktoria

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:29

Upps it seems the .... establishment has a problem with Lewis again...not very funny! Other culters ... other languages!! Not funny this article at the Daily Mail.. not funny!

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#3640 NateF

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 14:59

They made him change his helmet :rotfl:

#3641 dhill39

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 15:05

He will be wearing it in the race.

#3642 ZooL

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:10

Lewis the driver and the MP4-27 Machine were SOLID Championship contenders. The car driver package was a championship dominating package. Things just got terribly unfortunate.



Like they always seem to with Lewis.

Yes Lazy your right!

"It is just a matter of chance really. It has fallen that way," said Lowe, when asked by AUTOSPORT about why there had been a run of reliability problems.

"If we analyse the total mileage of this car and the number of faults that either did or would have stopped you in a race, this car has been the most reliable car since I started recording it.

"It doesn't feel that way because so many of those problems have occurred in actual races when we have been in the lead, for instance. But that is the way that dice have fallen. They are all unrelated."

Lowe said that the lack of a link between the failures means there is no specific area the team can focus on to improve matters.

He believes a more widespread look at where steps forward can be made is required.

"If you have a chronic issue, you can go and address that one thing," he said. "But the things that have just happened are unlikely to happen again.

"It is a matter of general unreliability and you have to keep improving the game. We have improved it. It is better this year than last year and the year before - although it doesn't look like that or feel like that. So we just have to keep getting better."

Lowe said that Hamilton's problem in Abu Dhabi had been a big surprise, because the design of the fuel pump had been trouble-free for years.

"That was a failure of the high-pressure pump, which is a mechanical unit," he said. "That is a pump we have been running for 10 years without changing design, so it was a massive disappointment for us.

"It is something we are still investigating, and we are not absolutely clear what has gone wrong, even now."


Even Paddy Lowe is agreeing with you! a 10 year old fault free design that unforuntaley failed and cost Lewis another race win...

Lewis is soooooooooo unlucky

Edited by ZooL, 17 November 2012 - 16:11.


#3643 Peter Perfect

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 16:25

Yes Lazy your right!

Even Paddy Lowe is agreeing with you! a 10 year old fault free design that unforuntaley failed and cost Lewis another race win...

Lewis is soooooooooo unlucky

Why is it Martin Whitmarsh's fault? ..oh..wait..

#3644 teejay

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:04

Mega lap by Lewis.

#3645 schumimercamg

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:05

And Lewis enters God mode. Christ he's an incredible driver.

#3646 Lelouch

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:06

superb lap! gz!

#3647 Markn93

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:07

Further proof to my mind he is the best out there. And the best/quickest I can remember seeing.

#3648 alframsey

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:09

Absolutely brilliant lap from Lewis today! Take a long hard look McLaren, that is what we are losing....Never mind Lewis regretting the move, McLaren management must be (s)hitting themselves when they think of next season.

#3649 jrg19

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:13

Lewis "unreal" Hamilton


#3650 superdelphinus

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:14

Fantastic onboard footage there. That is how to throw a car around a track on and over the ragged edge!