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Longford; the 'Reims of the South Pacific'


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#501 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:15

I think what Geoff is getting at is that key people should have been invited...

Drivers who raced there, people who own cars that raced there in major events, that sort of thing. Like he said, 'old friends that visited and participated in various ways at that circuit from both Australia and even New Zealand have been in contact to seek information on the event but unfortunately this has obviously never been readily available to these important people and I am aware of several that were interested won't now be attending which is rather a shame.'

People who were participants or well-travelled visitors in the day couldn't get information needed and are staying away... how does that sit with flyers in eateries?

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#502 Ellis French

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 23:14

Updated weather forecast (as at Tuesday) remember it is Tassie....only thing constant is the changing weather


Frid ....Late Shower
Sat.....Mostly Sunny
Sun....Clearing Shower

Lets not forget the Bike people...they started Longford
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The Crossing...Note the parked car...
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#503 woochoo

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 06:30

Frid ....Late Shower
Sat.....Mostly Sunny
Sun....Clearing Shower


That sounds a bit better. Nice photo of the crossing too.

I was at the site this morning. The paddocks have dried decently, still drying though. There was a roller flattening the area where the Porsche mini-museum floor will be layed. A few marquees are up and a few light towers/generators are standing by.
I was talking to the organiser; it sounds like the particular groups of cars will move down to the Mountford end of the Mile and then parade up to the top and turn around. The start line will be just after the kink and the finish line just beyond the dip. Around 1km apparently.

@ Mal, if there are bookings for the sim I want to know about it, 'cause I sure don't want to miss out on a turn! I don't expect there will be huge lines, but if that happens I guess it's possible to cut it down to one lap to keep the line moving. Anyway, you can just ask them to read the credits file, you're in it :wave: (i'm assuming the credits list equates to a "guest list"... therefore everyone who has posted in this thread is also on the guest list)

#504 Ellis French

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Posted 30 March 2011 - 01:40

Weather update for Longford as of wed.......

Frid 18deg Late Shwr Likelyhood of rain 80%
Sat 18 Mostly Sunny " " " 5%
Sun 19 Windy " " " 10%


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#505 malomay

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 05:12

That sounds a bit better. Nice photo of the crossing too.

I was at the site this morning. The paddocks have dried decently, still drying though. There was a roller flattening the area where the Porsche mini-museum floor will be layed. A few marquees are up and a few light towers/generators are standing by.
I was talking to the organiser; it sounds like the particular groups of cars will move down to the Mountford end of the Mile and then parade up to the top and turn around. The start line will be just after the kink and the finish line just beyond the dip. Around 1km apparently.

@ Mal, if there are bookings for the sim I want to know about it, 'cause I sure don't want to miss out on a turn! I don't expect there will be huge lines, but if that happens I guess it's possible to cut it down to one lap to keep the line moving. Anyway, you can just ask them to read the credits file, you're in it :wave: (i'm assuming the credits list equates to a "guest list"... therefore everyone who has posted in this thread is also on the guest list)


My Dad, my Uncle (who drove the TR4 round that the movie was taken from) & I will be there. Even if I only get to watch the lap in the simulator, I'm very much looking forward to it. Looks like a good day on the saturday. It's been getting quite a good bit of press here, particularly on ABC radio & there was an article with comments from Chris Amon in the paper today. Shame that there looks to be few of the the cars that actually raced there involved. Maybe there's not many of them left in any case ?

cheers

mal.


#506 woochoo

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 15:26

Thanks again for the vid Mal, while I didn't ever have even a composite full lap of the circuit, your video did fill some gaps and was quite helpful for a number of things

A little bad news about the simulators: it turns out they're not on moving motion base rigs at all. Besides that, it should all be good. Apart from friday arvo/evening the weather is looking pretty decent too now

I was down there today having a look at the sim-rigs and the first thing I saw was the Porsche 962 coming out the back of a truck. Sure, it has nothing to do with Longford, but as a kid, and still to this day, i have a R*thm*ns 956 slot car, so it was a thrill for me.

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It sure would be nice to see a lot more original Longford cars though, and those people involved




#507 malomay

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Posted 31 March 2011 - 21:25

Thanks again for the vid Mal, while I didn't ever have even a composite full lap of the circuit, your video did fill some gaps and was quite helpful for a number of things

A little bad news about the simulators: it turns out they're not on moving motion base rigs at all. Besides that, it should all be good. Apart from friday arvo/evening the weather is looking pretty decent too now

I was down there today having a look at the sim-rigs and the first thing I saw was the Porsche 962 coming out the back of a truck. Sure, it has nothing to do with Longford, but as a kid, and still to this day, i have a R*thm*ns 956 slot car, so it was a thrill for me.

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It sure would be nice to see a lot more original Longford cars though, and those people involved


How good is that !...AFX I see, I have the Scalextric one !

cheers

Mal.



#508 woochoo

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Posted 17 May 2011 - 14:20

Hi Everyone,
I've put in some more work on the paddock area. It's a lot nicer seeing some signs of life
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EDIT:
I've also uploaded three new high definition videos, a preview of the next update:

one lap in a Formula Vee cockpit, with a Brabham-style livery


the first lap of a Formula Vee race, with liveries based on the Tasman Series


two Formula Vee laps, one from external cameras, one from the cockpit


Edited by woochoo, 20 May 2011 - 02:44.


#509 chequer57

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 13:53

Hi Everyone,
I've put in some more work on the paddock area. It's a lot nicer seeing some signs of life
Posted Image
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EDIT:
I've also uploaded three new high definition videos, a preview of the next update:

one lap in a Formula Vee cockpit, with a Brabham-style livery


the first lap of a Formula Vee race, with liveries based on the Tasman Series


two Formula Vee laps, one from external cameras, one from the cockpit


Love the vids (makes me wish you jump out there and do it today), it may be a bit boring but with Vees we never change below 3rd unless it's a switch back.

Edited by chequer57, 26 May 2011 - 14:09.


#510 ellrosso

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 08:24

Woochoo, love the lap in the Vee (184kph might be a tad optimistic for 1968, but with a solid Tassy tailwind you never know....).
Have posted the cover of 1965 Tas Motorist plus some excerpts from the Longford report which may be of interest.
All courtesy Tasmanian Motorist magazine.Posted Image
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Line up is Sir Gawainne Baillie 7.0 Ford Galaxie, Allan Moffat Lotus Cortina, Lyn Archer, Ian Smith Cooper S's, Robin Pare Lotus Cortina, Garth Wigston FX Holden,
Norm Millen Lotus Cortina, Mike Dorney Cortina GT, Ray Allford Customline etc. John Goss is in the orange FJ No 29



#511 woochoo

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Posted 10 June 2011 - 03:47

Thanks for the comments
It's always interesting to hear from the guys who actually drove there in this or that car. I can only hope that the virtual vees aren't based around the exact specs as the real deal that you raced at Longford. I could live with 3rd gear through the Viaduct, Pub, Tannery and Newry, but yeah, 3rd out of Mountford does sound boring :lol: at the same time, i'm pretty sure i didn't need to be taking it in first either...

Thanks for the names and photo ellrosso. The parked race cars i've made are all based on Longford liveries that i've picked out from your and other's photos, ranging from '65 to '68, but mostly centred on '67. I've been able to sus out driver names for a few of them from program scans and file names. With the two shots of the minis i've tried to re-create some Longford shots i've seen here and on oldracephotos.
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I've done a bit of work on the beetle model in the last week too.

#512 275 GTB-4

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 00:18

Woochoo, love the lap in the Vee (184kph might be a tad optimistic for 1968, but with a solid Tassy tailwind you never know....).
Have posted the cover of 1965 Tas Motorist plus some excerpts from the Longford report which may be of interest.

All courtesy Tasmanian Motorist magazine.

Line up is Sir Gawainne Baillie 7.0 Ford Galaxie, Allan Moffat Lotus Cortina, Lyn Archer, Ian Smith Cooper S's, Robin Pare Lotus Cortina, Garth Wigston FX Holden,
Norm Millen Lotus Cortina, Mike Dorney Cortina GT, Ray Allford Customline etc. John Goss is in the orange FJ No 29


Terrific stuff Ellrosso!

1966 and 1967 the Mawdesley brothers each had a Lotus 7 entered at Longford. The black one was purchased from Alan Ling sometime in 1965 and the green one is hanging in the roof of a family garage.

What a great meeting it must have been...

PS thanks woochoo for the laps, even in an asthmatic Vee they were great :wave:

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 25 June 2011 - 00:20.


#513 SJ Lambert

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:35

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Who belonged to this car Ellis?

#514 ellrosso

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 10:39

Few random shots.
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John Newell Mountford cnr 1967
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Pat Crea Isuzu Bellett 1967
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John Pooley leads the pack into the Viaduct 1967
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Robin Bessant, Lotus Cortina leads Gardner Alfa GTA thru Viaduct 1967
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Arnold Glass Maserati 250F Viaduct 1960

#515 woochoo

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 12:36

I've just released version 0.97 of Longford for rFactor
For those who play:
http://www.gamefront.....20110817].zip
http://rfactorcentra...D=Longford 1967

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#516 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 12:50

Originally posed by SJ Lambert
Who belonged to this car Ellis?


You've waited long enough for an answer to this one...

Max Stephens had that at the time of the AGP in 1959, it's the 1955 AGP-winning Cooper Bristol. Reg Smith had raced it in between times.

#517 SJ Lambert

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 19:21

Thanks Ray, I'll have a look in the AGP book to see if it gets a mention in there next time I get a chance.

#518 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 23:03

Only the mention of it being a 'rear engined Cooper Bristol and came sixth in the second qualifying heat... and a little more describing the origin of the car and its singular lack of race-winning success...

In the race it's reported to have retired after 19 laps of the 25 (not 50, as in the results in the book) with a broken gearbox.

#519 Ellis French

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 02:34

Thanks Ray, I'll have a look in the AGP book to see if it gets a mention in there next time I get a chance.


SJ L
Sorry didnt see question till today.
As RBell says....Max Stevens from Hobart....Cooper Bristol "Bobtail"



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#520 austmcreg

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 03:14

Only the mention of it being a 'rear engined Cooper Bristol and came sixth in the second qualifying heat... and a little more describing the origin of the car and its singular lack of race-winning success...

In the race it's reported to have retired after 19 laps of the 25 (not 50, as in the results in the book) with a broken gearbox.

The gearbox was always this car's weakness. I am pretty sure it was the usual Citroen based (ERSA modified) box Cooper were using in the early bobtails and F2 cars, which worked OK with an FWA or FWB Climax, but 2 litres of Bristol power meant it had to be treated very gingerly. Longford was always hard on transmissions, even more so before the railway crossing was rebuilt prior to the 1960 meeting.

Max Stephens never really had the chance to demonstrate his true potential in a car - he was a gifted motorcycle racer, Tasmania's best in the 1950s, and there is no reason why he could not be good in a a car also. I dont know whether it was his (car sales, later accessories and motorcycles) business that stopped him getting more involved in car racing or whether money was the issue. I never got a chance, unfortunately to talk to him about it before he died a few years ago.

This car was sold by Max Stephens in about 1962-63 (from memory but could be wrong) to Alan Robertson of Hobart who converted it from central seat to sports car format and raced a few times before the Bristol engine problems intervened. It sat around in Hobart for years until purchased by Frank Cengia who eventually restored it in the original Brabham 1955 colours, but in 1990s it was unfortunately been sold overseas and has not been seen anywhere in recent years.

#521 SJ Lambert

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:15

It was certainly a nicely put together and well presented car at the time Ellis took the photo.

#522 ellrosso

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 11:48

I posted a shot of Max Stephens on page 107 post 4279 on the Personal photos of Aust Motor Racing thread - at the Domain Hillclimb if anyone wants a look. Probably one of the only colour shots of the car in action I'd imagine. Rob - would be interesting to find out why Max dropped out of racing. He was certainly a dominant figure on the bike scene in Tas, both before and after he raced. I can remember going out to Max Stephens Motors in Moonah a number of times with my brother to get accessories etc in the early 70's.

#523 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 21 August 2011 - 10:35

It was certainly a nicely put together and well presented car at the time Ellis took the photo.

The bobtail Cooper of Max Stephens was always beautifully maintained by the late Eric O'Heaney, one of the old school motor cycle mechanics that gave Max a lot of success in his bike days, Eric himself was an avid bike racer up until a serious accident left him with severe and permanent body injuries, but his body impairments never got in the way of his impeccable work and brain function, In my mind my dear friend Eric was an earlier version of the great Phil Irving, both with the same demeanor in their thinking and dedication to the development of the sport. Yes the car was fitted with the early ERSA box derived from Citroen and were used in the F1 Coopers up until 60-61 I think. Austin Miller's car wore one of these delicate 'sewing machine' boxes in the L.S.R. run in 1960 with a lot of tongue in cheek modifications

#524 austmcreg

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 01:12

Memory jogged by Ellrosso, I meant to post this last week.
This image of Max Stephens was taken during 1959 Australian Grand Prix, by my father, Jim Saward.
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Also some aerial shots taken at 1959 Longford meeting by dad, I think on Saturday morning during sports car practice. The first one is the end of Tannery straight, and Tannery corner.

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This shows Mountford corner at bottpm right with the escape road to bottom left being the road to Perth and the main entrance to circuit from all points south. The pit/paddock area is on inside of circuit. The water tower and the drop down Mackinnons Hill to the viaduct is top left.
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This is taken from inside the circuit showing the pit/paddock area at bottom and spectator area on outside at top. The LTTRA / LMRA tram (ex Hobart tram I think) as control centre. I think Launceston had trolley buses rather than trams?? Can anyone confirm?
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Newry Corner and the Long Bridge over South Esk River. IMHO the best spectator viewing area on the circuit. Car on track is heading up Newry Hill (quite steep) and then on to the flying mile.
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The start/finish area again, this time from above the spectator area on outsde.
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Edited by austmcreg, 27 August 2011 - 01:13.


#525 Lola5000

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 01:18

looking at the above photos,makes one glad we have the Net,forums and other mod cons to share our knowlege/photos.

#526 austmcreg

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 04:04

Can anyone identify the aircraft type - this was the plane used for the March 1959 photos I posted earlier. Dad's memory is a bit hazy but he thinks the landing strip was in paddoock beside the flying mile, roughly where the old pits were in meetings previous to this.

Apparently the aircraft had a large hatch in the bottom which was open and the others took photos through it.

My uncle Winston Saward at left toting camera, and my father was behind the Agfa Sillette which took the photos. Dad thinks one of the others in photo was a photographer from The Examiner newspaper.

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Rob Saward

#527 Catalina Park

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 05:56

Can anyone identify the aircraft type - this was the plane used for the March 1959 photos I posted earlier. Dad's memory is a bit hazy but he thinks the landing strip was in paddoock beside the flying mile, roughly where the old pits were in meetings previous to this.

Apparently the aircraft had a large hatch in the bottom which was open and the others took photos through it.

My uncle Winston Saward at left toting camera, and my father was behind the Agfa Sillette which took the photos. Dad thinks one of the others in photo was a photographer from The Examiner newspaper.

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Rob Saward

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#528 Ellis French

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 09:19

QUOTE (austmcreg )*The LTTRA / LMRA tram (ex Hobart tram I think) as control centre. I think Launceston had trolley buses rather than trams?? Can anyone confirm?

Launceston had Trams from 1911 which were superseded by Trolley buses in early/mid 50's....maybe 1954?
They had a 100 years since first trams celebration last week.
Trolley buses ceased in 1968.



#529 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 August 2011 - 12:16

Rob, those pics were taken in the afternoon, I would say after 3pm...

Check the shadows and you'll see why I say that.

Great pics, by the way!

#530 austmcreg

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:38

I have been going through the Longford Motor Racing Acssociation meeting minutes to confirm a few items for the 1963 chapter I am writing at present, and found an interesting reference to Norm Beechey having been a probable entrant driving a Studebaker Lark.. There was no such entry in the end. I have never heard of Studebaker mentioned in connection with Norm, and at this time (December 1962 - January 1963) I think he was racing the Chev Impala.

Can anyone enlighten me? Did Beechey ever own or race a Studebaker?

Rob Saward

#531 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:59

I've never heard of it...

Not much happened with Studebakers. They were rarely heavily modified and were therefore rarely in contention for anything serious. And at that time there was basically no racing of unmodified cars except in the Armstrong 500.

One possibility might be that someone at AMI (they did assemble Studebakers, didn't they?) might have wanted to brag about high recorded top speeds of the standard Lark and if that meeting was before the Armstrong was announced to be run at Bathurst it's possible they thought they might get such a high officially timed speed on the Flying Mile.

#532 Catalina Park

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 06:35

I've never heard of it...

Not much happened with Studebakers. They were rarely heavily modified and were therefore rarely in contention for anything serious. And at that time there was basically no racing of unmodified cars except in the Armstrong 500.

One possibility might be that someone at AMI (they did assemble Studebakers, didn't they?) might have wanted to brag about high recorded top speeds of the standard Lark and if that meeting was before the Armstrong was announced to be run at Bathurst it's possible they thought they might get such a high officially timed speed on the Flying Mile.

AMI didn't do the Studebakers, it was Canada Cycle & Motor Co that did them. AMI was busy with Mercedes, Rambler, Triumph and Toyota.

#533 DanTra2858

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:17

[quote name='Ray Bell' date='Sep 13 2011, 13:59' post='5281126']
I've never heard of it...

Not much happened with Studebakers. They were rarely heavily modified and were therefore rarely in contention for anything serious. And at that time there was basically no racing of unmodified cars except in the Armstrong 500.

Ray I believe that Bert Needham would not agree with you, for a great picture of Bert's Car get a copy of Bill Tuckeys book Motor Racing, page 99


#534 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 07:54

Thanks, Michael, I should have remembered that...

And Dan, I did say 'rarely'. The Needham car, I would think, was the only substantially modified Lark that ever raced in Australia. And if Bert wanted it to run at Bathurst, he'd have had himself and Warren Weldon there rather than put Beechey into it.

#535 austmcreg

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 21:42

I have been going through the Longford Motor Racing Acssociation meeting minutes to confirm a few items for the 1963 chapter I am writing at present, and found an interesting reference to Norm Beechey having been a probable entrant driving a Studebaker Lark.. There was no such entry in the end. I have never heard of Studebaker mentioned in connection with Norm, and at this time (December 1962 - January 1963) I think he was racing the Chev Impala.

Can anyone enlighten me? Did Beechey ever own or race a Studebaker?

Rob Saward

A bit more research in my just found (lost for a 12 months!) 1963 program and I have answered my own question. The Studebaker of Don Algie was entered, as was Norm's Impala. However neither car fronted at Longford, and it would seem that an LMRA committee man confused the two and reported to the meeting that "Norm Beechey's Studebaker Lark would not be present", which was duly minuted and not corrected.

In the end, Beechey himself did turn up and was given the drive in Len Lukey's Galaxie.

#536 David Shaw

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 22:19

Was that the year that Norm entered after the official close of entries, but it wasn't accepted as one of the other drivers didn't agree and a unanimous agreement was needed by them?

#537 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 September 2011 - 23:33

And was that the only year Norm ever entered?

One might expect that if he'd had that kind of experience. I have mentioned before that there was an air of a 'power trip' going on among some of the officials there.

#538 austmcreg

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 03:12

Was that the year that Norm entered after the official close of entries, but it wasn't accepted as one of the other drivers didn't agree and a unanimous agreement was needed by them?

No, that was 1968. The Chev Nova was at the circuit, but remained on the truck all weekend, in clear view of the spectator area opposite the pits, just to remind everyone what they were missing. The identity of the entrant (not driver) who vetoed Norm being allowed to run was the subject of much speculation in Tasmania, and suspicion in most peoples eyes fell on Don Elliott, whose driver Robin Pare would be logically the next fastest touring car at the meeting. It is fair to say that there was a lot of ill-informed negative comment around Elliott and for some years afterwards he never had the Tasmanian public support he should have for his efforts. However, it is now known that it was not Elliott who used the veto, but rather Murray Wright, entrant of the Alan Hamilton-driven Alfa Romeo.

Edited by austmcreg, 14 September 2011 - 03:23.


#539 austmcreg

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 03:21

And was that the only year Norm ever entered?

One might expect that if he'd had that kind of experience. I have mentioned before that there was an air of a 'power trip' going on among some of the officials there.


Beechey raced at Longford in 1961 (Holden PK---) and 1963 (Lukey Galaxie). The problem that Ray mentions was definitely there from the early 60s but only became a real issue at the last few meetings. There are a lot of reasons why that occurred, someting that I am trying to get to grips with. But mostly it came down to personalities. The demise of Longford is not as simple as has been portrayed in what has been written so far. There were many issues and this 'attitude problem' (delusions of grandeur) is just one of them.

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#540 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 11:46

Rob, I wouldn't think it was among the leading lights in the organisation...

Ron McKinnon was a very nice bloke, I think you'll find that most around him were similar. From that level down, I suspect, came the problems. Not that they were totally evident all the time, but there were moments when you felt (as a spectator, certainly, but probably the lesser competitors too) that some of the officials wanted to prove to you that they had some authority over your comfort zone.

#541 ellrosso

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:50

Speaking to Launchpad earlier this week reminded me I have'nt posted any pics from the ORP collection for a while. These are all from Graeme King's collection - I've just received the slides so am scanning hi-res at the moment.

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Wayne Mahnken EH off Long Bridge 1966
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Pare Mustang 1966
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Roy Frith Sprite Mk2 Newry cnr 1965
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Lolita off Long Bridge 1966

#542 Ray Bell

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:10

The Lolita there is driven by Bob Holden...

I was fortunate to get a lift back to Sydney in Bob's mother's 403 Peugeot after this meeting. Driving was Ian Pope, with the Lolita trailing behind.

#543 ellrosso

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:42

I've been doing a bit of work on our Longford pics so thought it was about time to post a few more.

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#544 Ray Bell

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:19

That's a great shot of Glynn Scott!

Not that the other pics are substandard by any means...

#545 austmcreg

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:16

I've been doing a bit of work on our Longford pics so thought it was about time to post a few more.

Thanks for bumping this thread , Lindsay. I was tonight reviewing my 1964 photos and found this, George Reynolds chasing Bill Burns in Saturday touring car race. Jane and McKeowen were already long gone in first two places.
Phot courtesy B&C Sushames.

Rob Saward

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Edited by austmcreg, 25 September 2012 - 03:39.


#546 ellrosso

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 21:49

Good shot Rob, colour looks pretty original too. Like the casual attitude of the guys sitting on the edge of the bridge! River level is high. That Glyn Scott pic is one of my favourite portrait shots Ray - it is a beauty by Geoff H. Quite like the Jim Clark shot too.

#547 Ray Bell

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 00:21

Casual?

They might not have been if they knew the Jag was about to obliterate itself!

#548 austmcreg

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 03:41

Casual?

They might not have been if they knew the Jag was about to obliterate itself!

That was two days later but I know what you mean!

BTW I have edited that post to add photo credit which I neglected originally.

Rob Saward

#549 eldougo

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:49

[quote name='ellrosso' date='Sep 24 2012, 20:42' post='5936920']

Caption for the photo.
"I bet the mini fill up first anybody timing the fuel stop".
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#550 275 GTB-4

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 06:49

I've been doing a bit of work on our Longford pics so thought it was about time to post a few more.

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Possibly Bob Holden refuelling? Love the door strap....