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Longford; the 'Reims of the South Pacific'


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#551 Ellis French

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 11:00

Possibly Bob Holden refuelling? Love the door strap....




#13 R V Holden 1098cc Morris Cooper

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#552 woochoo

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:23

#13 R V Holden 1098cc Morris Cooper

on topic, I've had that one as a bit of in-game scenery for a while (probably some variance in detail and accuracy though - hey, it's scenery :) )
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And Ellis, I think you once mentioned the starter's drum... It's done (not functional though)
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#553 woochoo

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:33

And, Longford 1967 v0.99 for rFactor will be available very soon. Here are some new screenshots, and some videos :)

Sunshine
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Overcast
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Rain
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And the videos, featuring the '67 Dan Gurney Eagle (which was never anywhere near Longford, but it's probably the most similar drive to a Tasman car available in rFactor)

One lap, Gurney Eagle, sunny


One lap, Gurney Eagle, cloudy
[url="http://"%20<a%20href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxk3b-RjK4I""%20target="_blank">"</a>"][/url]

One lap, Gurney Eagle, rainy
[url="http://"%20<a%20href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQI61g7AInA""%20target="_blank">"</a>"][/url]

Hope you like it :wave:

EDIT:
I've added a few more videos
-Sunset, one slow lap - www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ1eJI-9adY
-Sunny, 4 laps (onboard / trackside) - www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CVI6Rp3LQo
-Cloudy, 2 laps (onboard / chase) - www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-yU1E9YtjM
-Rainy, 2 laps (onboard / chase) - www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkzjdplNuio

Edited by woochoo, 17 October 2012 - 07:32.


#554 275 GTB-4

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:52

on topic, I've had that one as a bit of in-game scenery for a while (probably some variance in detail and accuracy though - hey, it's scenery :) )
Posted Image

And Ellis, I think you once mentioned the starter's drum... It's done (not functional though)
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Anyone brave enough to use that Starters Podium gets my vote!

Geez Woo, those Minis are a little rough and ready!!! (joking...)

Thanks to Ellis for the guided tour...man...what a track!!! :up:

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 14 October 2012 - 11:52.


#555 woochoo

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 03:20

Version 0.99 of Longford 1967 for rFactor is now available here:
http://www.gamefront.....B20121019].7z

#556 Ellis French

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 20:56

[quote name='275 GTB-4' date='Oct 14 2012, 12:52' post='5975739']
Anyone brave enough to use that Starters Podium gets my vote!

I'll dig up the pic with starter Noel on his drum.

A painted line on the road (like a pit lane) gave a bit of space for the drum
to be placed at the start and then moved once they were all away.
Moffat starting from the rear of the grid in one event in his Lotus Cortina came
and asked the starter if he would mind moving his drum back a bit as he
planned to round a few up at flag drop.
Request was denied.

#557 seldo

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 00:40

Possibly Bob Holden refuelling? Love the door strap....

That's Bob with his back to the camera, in the quilted jacket. He loved that jacket - I'm sure he lived in it for 30 years....

#558 eldougo

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 05:37

That is Sooooo true David .Unless it was hot an he have his driving suit on all zipped up.

#559 Ellis French

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 23:12

I'll dig up the pic with starter Noel on his drum.

A painted line on the road (like a pit lane) gave a bit of space for the drum
to be placed at the start and then moved once they were all away.
Moffat starting from the rear of the grid in one event in his Lotus Cortina came
and asked the starter if he would mind moving his drum back a bit as he
planned to round a few up at flag drop.
Request was denied.
[/quote]


Woochoo...
You missed off the handrails and wheels...lol
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Edited by Ellis French, 20 October 2012 - 23:16.


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#560 austmcreg

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 01:59

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Woochoo, thanks for all your painstaking work on Longford. It looks just right, from someone who did a million laps around the place when on my regular trips from NW coast to Hobart for uni. Not unusual for me to break the trip and do 3-4 laps each time, much to the annoyance of my passengers!

Just a point of detail for when you have a bit of spare time - the control tower was an all timber construction with flat white-painted exterior cladding - no bricks. When Longford was finished, the whole thing was dismantled in sections and re-erected at Baskerville, courtesy Don Gorringe.

Rob Saward

#561 woochoo

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 10:20

Thanks for the compliments :)
And here come my defenses... :p

...the control tower was an all timber construction with flat white-painted exterior cladding - no bricks. When Longford was finished, the whole thing was dismantled in sections and re-erected at Baskerville, courtesy Don Gorringe.
Rob Saward

Initially, I did think the control tower was just timber construction. I had heard it was moved to Baskerville, so that made sense for timber.
But, photos were strongly suggesting it was block construction. Were they block-textured timber panels?
From oldracephotos:
http://www.oldraceph...50#637_K_Pit_68
http://www.oldraceph...4378#863HLong68
http://www.oldraceph...t4403#866HPit68
They sure look like blocks, but if it was timber construction I guess it must have been textured timber. The first photo does seem to show flat timber cladding on the front of the tower though... so...

Secondly

Woochoo...
You missed off the handrails and wheels...lol

Nope, they're on there Ellis :) Made them while watching the German GP earlier in the year.
Please excuse the nasty-looking marshals though. I didn't make those, and you're not meant to see them from this angle either :)
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I'm happy to play "pick the missing detail" with you all. I'm sure there are plenty, and it's a good way to make a better simulation :) Not to say I'd have time to fix everything, but I'd agree that the front of the control tower needs timber panels. I expect I'll take care of that for the next release. So, thanks Rob :)

Edited by woochoo, 21 October 2012 - 11:30.


#562 Ellis French

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 20:32



Nope, they're on there Ellis :) Made them while watching the German GP earlier in the year.
Please excuse the nasty-looking marshals though. I didn't make those, and you're not meant to see them from this angle either :)
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Sorry Woochoo
I should wear me specs....all the time
I should have known you wouldnt let the wheels fall off... :wave:




#563 Ray Bell

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 22:38

Fabulous attention to detail, Woochoo...

I hope those who come to use it appreciate the work you've done.

#564 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 07:54

Anyone brave enough to use that Starters Podium gets my vote!

Geez Woo, those Minis are a little rough and ready!!! (joking...)

Thanks to Ellis for the guided tour...man...what a track!!! :up:


I vividly remember painting that old Launceston tram white in the background a lot of years ago!

#565 275 GTB-4

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:33

I vividly remember painting that old Launceston tram white in the background a lot of years ago!


Tram? I thought it was a Kombi! :)

#566 Ellis French

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 10:38

I vividly remember painting that old Launceston tram white in the background a lot of years ago!




Probably about the same time this dapper young flaggie had his pic taken... :wave:

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#567 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:22

What a great shot!

As usual, Geoff is dressed for the part, immaculate overalls over Sunday Best.

Oh, and Mick, there is a Kombi in there, but a tram as well.

#568 austmcreg

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 11:52

Initially, I did think the control tower was just timber construction. I had heard it was moved to Baskerville, so that made sense for timber.
But, photos were strongly suggesting it was block construction. Were they block-textured timber panels?
They sure look like blocks, but if it was timber construction I guess it must have been textured timber. The first photo does seem to show flat timber cladding on the front of the tower though... so...

Woochoo, after some research tonight I realise that the control tower was a mix of brick and timber construction. The brick you have shown for the end walls of the lower section, and the lower front foundation is correct - these look like the large concrete bricks known in Tasmania as Besser blocks. The second and third floors are all timber, as was the front panel from the brick foundation up.

Not sure how well the attached photo (taken in 1965) will come up but you can see the difference between brick lower section and timber upper sections.

A bit tragic that we are discussing construction details of a building that has been gone for 43 years, but at least it will be available for posterity this way!
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Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Rob Saward

#569 woochoo

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 13:58

I should have known you wouldnt let the wheels fall off... :wave:

No worries :) Look close, but not toooo close :lol:

Fabulous attention to detail, Woochoo...
I hope those who come to use it appreciate the work you've done.

Thanks Ray. I'm glad that the regular sim-racer gets such a unique track to drive, and they often comment on the amount of detail, which is great. But comments and stories from people with real-world Longford experience about the accuracy/inaccuracy of the details are great in a different way, so thanks to all of you :wave:

Woochoo, after some research tonight I realise that the control tower was a mix of brick and timber construction...
...A bit tragic that we are discussing construction details of a building that has been gone for 43 years, but at least it will be available for posterity this way!
Rob Saward

Ah, thanks a lot Rob. I had a brief conversation this morning on the topic, and a brick ground floor, timber upper floors scheme was starting to make sense. Your photo does show it clearly enough. Thanks for taking the time, for me and anyone else who ever wants to know :)


#570 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 October 2012 - 22:47

Rob, 'Besser' was probably a universal name...

Boral (ask Catalina Park...) own or owned the company at least from the eighties. There are other manufacturers, of course, but Besser being the big name or the first name, possibly, they are the 'generic' name for building blocks of that style.

#571 austmcreg

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 01:58

Rob, 'Besser' was probably a universal name...

Boral (ask Catalina Park...) own or owned the company at least from the eighties. There are other manufacturers, of course, but Besser being the big name or the first name, possibly, they are the 'generic' name for building blocks of that style.

At the risk of taking this too far OT, in the 50s and 60s, Besser was (I thought - maybe wrong) a Tasmanian company, and these were made at several Tasmanian locations, I think Ulverstone and maybe Perth, which is not far from Longford.

If anyone is interested, (am I the only tragic interested in this stuff?), but I am pretty sure the LMRA minutes contain some details of architect, cost (it was partially funded by BP) etc for the control tower. I know it was knocked up in about 2 months, just in time for its debut at 1961 meeting. I will dig out the minutes and see what I can find.

Rob Saward

#572 seldo

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:29

Rob, 'Besser' was probably a universal name...

Boral (ask Catalina Park...) own or owned the company at least from the eighties. There are other manufacturers, of course, but Besser being the big name or the first name, possibly, they are the 'generic' name for building blocks of that style.

Besser is a brand name from the The Besser Company in the USA, which took its name from its founder of German background who began making hand-stamped concrete blocks in the early 1900s. It has of course since become synonymous with any concrete building block.
Not that this has any bearing at all on the Longford control tower....:)

#573 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 02:31

At the risk of taking this too far OT, in the 50s and 60s, Besser was (I thought - maybe wrong) a Tasmanian company, and these were made at several Tasmanian locations, I think Ulverstone and maybe Perth, which is not far from Longford.

If anyone is interested, (am I the only tragic interested in this stuff?), but I am pretty sure the LMRA minutes contain some details of architect, cost (it was partially funded by BP) etc for the control tower. I know it was knocked up in about 2 months, just in time for its debut at 1961 meeting. I will dig out the minutes and see what I can find.

Rob Saward

Definitely a tram it took much more paint than than a Kombi, It was later moved to Symmonds Plains and the younger people may remember it in the old pits there?

#574 ellrosso

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Posted 26 October 2012 - 04:17

Here's a random shot of Wally Mitchell and his RM1 Climax into the bank at Mountford cnr in 1966. Baskerville had a bus or tram as its control tower as well from memory.

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#575 ellrosso

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:00

Few shots from wet Monday 1968. Probably quite a rare pic of Leo Geoghegan coming in from a sighter lap before electing not to start the main event.

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#576 Doug Nye

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Posted 15 November 2012 - 19:35

The course must have been lethal when wet. Videos are superb, as ever, but for one thing - why no shade under the car to attach it to the planet? The external-view is predictably unconvincing without it. Does attaching shadow pose some technical problem?

DCN

#577 ellrosso

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 00:25

The main problem was blocked drains not allowing the vast amounts of water to get away, but as you say, it would have been very hairy (challenging enough in the dry let alone hammering rain). The 2.5 cars were getting wheelspin in all gears and only Rodrieguez seemed to be actually enjoying himself (shades of Brands Hatch!). Courage had his special hand cut Dunlops so he had far more pace than anyone else. Leo, KB (wonder whether he went out at all - are you about Kev?) and Denny H all elected not to start.
Attached is a shot of the pre-race safety chat - Clark certainly doesn't look thrilled......

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#578 woochoo

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 00:52

The course must have been lethal when wet. Videos are superb, as ever, but for one thing - why no shade under the car to attach it to the planet? The external-view is predictably unconvincing without it. Does attaching shadow pose some technical problem?

DCN

Hi Doug,
Ordinarily the cars would have a fake/static shadow underneath. Pretty much just a dark patch that follows the car around, irrespective of the lighting conditions. I'm not sure how it has happened but I seem to have moves/disabled/deleted it at some point, and I only noticed when I was making the videos, at which point I apparently chose to ignore it. I think it's a user-based problem though, rather than related to the track, so they should work for other people. That doesn't help the videos though.
But I agree, they would have looked much better with shadows.

But I remember when they were working, and there was an issue. The base game that the track works with (rFactor - closely related to the base systems that a few of the F1 teams use in their sims, inc. Red Bull) was released in 2005, and so nowadays user systems are much more able to handle more and higher detail objects, and that includes the road surface. The first two version of Longford (0.9, & 0.97), and most other tracks for rFactor used polygons around around four meters long (down the road), and four polygons wide (across the road). The new version of rFactor (rFactor2) sets a standard of roughly 1.5m square polygons, and in Longford at least, they're slightly undulating to give some life to the road surface, which is felt through the steering wheels force feedback. Back to the shadows, the static shadow now has to cross a few of the undulating polygons, but it remain a flat shadow, so doesn't follow the bigger undulations all that well. It was pretty much just slicing the road surface at up to 300kph, so it was a bit of a nasty flickering mess. Why am I using the newer road specs on the older game? Besides these static shadows, the game can handle it, as can most computers, and I is making it easier to move the track into rFactor2 :)

As for building/tree shadows, those are related to the sun position and do move with the time of day. In rFactor1 they do bring a certain performance hit, particularly on older computers. More so than gross polygon counts. So the track-side shadows shown in the game/videos are far below what they could be, for the sake of performance.

Also, that last photo appears to be showing the tram :) I'd seen the photo in the past, but didn't notice the tram, so it wasn't used as a reference photo for the model :(

Edited by woochoo, 16 November 2012 - 01:05.


#579 austmcreg

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Posted 16 November 2012 - 02:35

The main problem was blocked drains not allowing the vast amounts of water to get away, but as you say, it would have been very hairy (challenging enough in the dry let alone hammering rain). The 2.5 cars were getting wheelspin in all gears and only Rodrieguez seemed to be actually enjoying himself (shades of Brands Hatch!). Courage had his special hand cut Dunlops so he had far more pace than anyone else. Leo, KB (wonder whether he went out at all - are you about Kev?) and Denny H all elected not to start.
Attached is a shot of the pre-race safety chat - Clark certainly doesn't look thrilled......

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I have not spent time looking for it but I think there is a KB quote somewhere on TNF to the effect that Alec Mildren told KB not to start, but that he would allow Frank Gardner to make his own decision. Subsequently, Gardner did start.

I have access to some old interviews with Longford officials, that indicate there were several large drains around the circuit that became blocked, creating flooding. When John Barrenger (who I think was Clerk of Course) got into one of them to try and un-block it, he succeeded, only to find himself being sucked in........ He had to be held and pulled out by others.

Rob Saward

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#580 kevinbartlett

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 00:29

The main problem was blocked drains not allowing the vast amounts of water to get away, but as you say, it would have been very hairy (challenging enough in the dry let alone hammering rain). The 2.5 cars were getting wheelspin in all gears and only Rodrieguez seemed to be actually enjoying himself (shades of Brands Hatch!). Courage had his special hand cut Dunlops so he had far more pace than anyone else. Leo, KB (wonder whether he went out at all - are you about Kev?) and Denny H all elected not to start.
Attached is a shot of the pre-race safety chat - Clark certainly doesn't look thrilled......

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I have told the story before on TNF but shall go through once again. I did some exploratory laps (two from memory) and the old BT11 couldn't find traction anywhere, I had an absolutely terrifying fourth gear 720 spin across short bridge, the one after the viaduct, missed all obstacles at track edge. After exiting pub and in a straight line a 360 loop. She nearly escaped on me over the rail-line on the way to long bridge. Out of Neury (is that the correct name?) and up the hill to the straight slithering along with no touch felt between me and the bitumen, so I suppose at that moment I should try one more lap at a very reduced speed then pit. Once back in the tent Alec, Frank, Denny and I had a talk about the tyres that Denny and I had and after trying to come up with a better tread pattern, such as the ones fitted to Frank's car, but with no result. It was agreed Denny and I shouldn"t risk a start. I was happy with the call and Leo followed suit. most of the top guys had the latest Firestone, Dunlop or Goodyear wets and none available to suit the BT11's. I consolded myself with the fact that if the new World Champion didn't like the risk I certainly shouldn't :-)

#581 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:33

I have told the story before on TNF but shall go through once again. I did some exploratory laps (two from memory) and the old BT11 couldn't find traction anywhere, I had an absolutely terrifying fourth gear 720 spin across short bridge, the one after the viaduct, missed all obstacles at track edge. After exiting pub and in a straight line a 360 loop. She nearly escaped on me over the rail-line on the way to long bridge. Out of Neury (is that the correct name?) and up the hill to the straight slithering along with no touch felt between me and the bitumen, so I suppose at that moment I should try one more lap at a very reduced speed then pit. Once back in the tent Alec, Frank, Denny and I had a talk about the tyres that Denny and I had and after trying to come up with a better tread pattern, such as the ones fitted to Frank's car, but with no result. It was agreed Denny and I shouldn"t risk a start. I was happy with the call and Leo followed suit. most of the top guys had the latest Firestone, Dunlop or Goodyear wets and none available to suit the BT11's. I consolded myself with the fact that if the new World Champion didn't like the risk I certainly shouldn't :-)

Yes KB, I was with Leo at that final Longford event and he experienced a very similar experience and declined the start, Piers Porridge ran his formula 2 car on its narrow transport tyres and won the very first and last surfing event held at Longford.....Smed.

#582 ellrosso

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 06:30

This shot of Clark/Brabham podium gives some more detail of the tram (girl standing on it in b/ground), not in focus but gives a bit of an idea. Couple of other shots chucked in for good measure.

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#583 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 10:13

This shot of Clark/Brabham podium gives some more detail of the tram (girl standing on it in b/ground), not in focus but gives a bit of an idea. Couple of other shots chucked in for good measure.

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Not only does the picture show the tram, the blokes from L-R Ron Mc Kinnon, Owen Graham. James Clark and Jack Brabham (before knighthood)


#584 Martyn Hey

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 13:51

Hope the link works; photo of the tram during the 1959 AGP (from my treasured copy of the Australian Motor Sports Review 1958-59).

http://imageshack.us...7091/tram1n.jpg

Edited by Martyn Hey, 22 November 2012 - 14:14.


#585 Martyn Hey

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 14:09

Rostrum at Pub corner

http://imageshack.us...rneragp1959.jpg


Edited by Martyn Hey, 22 November 2012 - 14:11.


#586 Martyn Hey

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 14:17

More background to the tram at the 1959 AGP

http://imageshack.us.../2440/tram2.jpg

#587 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:03

More background to the tram at the 1959 AGP

http://imageshack.us.../2440/tram2.jpg

Yes that's our tram! It was acquired in 1958 and was converted into Longford's first control office our working party from the Light Club of Tasmania for the March '59 meeting. LUXURY!!

#588 DanTra2858

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 20:20

Picture found in June 1959, Sports Car World.

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#589 ellrosso

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 01:18

Few random shots.

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#590 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 06:28

All Friday or Saturday photos (except perhaps the Matich pic), of course...

The last one would be Attwood, the line of cars going under the Viaduct are Gardner, Geoghegan, Attwood, Bartlett, Rodriguez, Hulme, Courage, McEwin and McCormack.

#591 ellrosso

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 01:25

Found this one amongst David Keep's stuff - quite a good atmosphere shot and shows the old trolley bus in the background too.

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#592 275 GTB-4

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 07:52

[quote name='ellrosso' post='6119997' date='Feb 7 2013, 12:25']Found this one amongst David Keep's stuff - quite a good atmosphere shot and shows the old trolley bus in the background too.

Frank Gardner watching KB?

Edited by 275 GTB-4, 07 February 2013 - 07:52.


#593 Geoff Smedley

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 12:18

Found this one amongst David Keep's stuff - quite a good atmosphere shot and shows the old trolley bus in the background too.

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Even without glasses that 'trolly bus' is still an old Launceston tram. I was part of the working party that gutted and painted it in the pits exactly where it sits behind Frank in the picture.



#594 Lola5000

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:01

Great photo of KB and the BT11?
To the right ,the red sports car I'd say is the ex Firth now owned by Tate,MG-Holden.

#595 Ellis French

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Posted 07 February 2013 - 22:33

Great photo of KB and the BT11?
To the right ,the red sports car I'd say is the ex Firth now owned by Tate,MG-Holden.




Its the ex Mick Watt then Bluey Mitchell (who was driving then) ...other owners...and now Tate
When Bluey owned it had Repco X flow head but not when he sold it.
The head is currently on Mathers #48 restored Humpy

#596 Lola5000

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 02:06

Its the ex Mick Watt then Bluey Mitchell (who was driving then) ...other owners...and now Tate
When Bluey owned it had Repco X flow head but not when he sold it.
The head is currently on Mathers #48 restored Humpy

My father owned it in the early 50s including 9th at the '54 Southport AGP.
QLD driver Les Agnew also drove it at times.

Edited by Lola5000, 08 February 2013 - 02:07.


#597 ellrosso

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 03:50

The Cortina in front of Mitchell's MG Holden is Wayne Headlam's SRC car.

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#598 woochoo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 07:25

The tram was Launceston's No. 4 tram. There is a small piece on it (not of it) in Launceston's tram museum.
Also, I'm close to having a "final" version of the Longford sim track. So I've finally gotten around to timber-framing the first and second floors of the control tower, with cladding on the front. Also have updated the marshals.
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Edited by woochoo, 26 February 2013 - 07:26.


#599 Ellis French

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 08:52

The tram was Launceston's No. 4 tram. There is a small piece on it (not of it) in Launceston's tram museum.
Also, I'm close to having a "final" version of the Longford sim track. So I've finally gotten around to timber-framing the first and second floors of the control tower, with cladding on the front. Also have updated the marshals.
Posted Image



Well done Woochoo

How many hours on the time clock up to date

I noticed a link to it on the TRS NZ site recently


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#600 woochoo

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 09:10

Well done Woochoo
How many hours on the time clock up to date

Thanks Ellis,
It's now at four years, + a couple of weeks :well:
I think I've gone a bit too far :lol:
Hypothetically, if it were to average out to three hours per day (I don't know the real average. In reality, some days 16 hours, some days no hours) the it would be near 4400 hours. I don't know the real total, and it's probably best that way :drunk: