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Longford; the 'Reims of the South Pacific'


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#51 Gary Davies

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 07:48

Originally posted by jrosenzweig
Vanwall I already have Lobethal on VHS and i must say its very nice except for the snails pace...


Ach so! Ein very simple solution here! Fast forward and pretend you're Derek Bell in the 956! :p

Vanwall.

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#52 Flying Panda

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 13:59

What is the proposed release datefor the materpiece??

#53 pinchevs

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 14:09

:clap: :up: :up: :up:
Bernd,
Stunning! Absolutely stunning!

As part of the team working on the original Watkins Glen road course (WG 1948), I can fully
appreciate the difficulties involved with creating any track for GPL, especially something this
size (WG is 6.6 miles and goes through the main street of the town...). The more I think of it
the more the two tracks look a like in their special features if not in their over all experience.
WG 48 also has a rail road crossing (but also an underpass) and a narrow bridge to cross.
Our main problem is also with the amount of trees and bushes we have to create and place.
WG tough has no real long straights so the current lap time is above 3:20 (in full GP cars).
For more information check out this page:
http://voyager.ccc.c...gpli/wg1948.htm

I can't wait to trying all these wonderful Tasman Cup tracks. The FD cars should be
sensational.

How could someone like me purchase videos of this races? What is also the best book on
these TRACKS (note: tracks)? Do they feature in the book about the Australian GPs?

Ray,
Was it you who helped me with my thread on this forum in regard to the Pedralbes track? If it was you, I promise you I'll try to get that project going once we finish with WG48, but it might take a very long time...

#54 Bernd

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Posted 16 January 2002 - 22:50

Jamie I'm telling you if my editing software would work I would have put the Driving Miss Daisy theme music to it.

Panda, mate I really don't have a clue could be two months could be four. Two would be preferable.
BTW I just saw your avatar and nearly fell outta my chair, WTF!!! :drunk:

Moshe yes they are both 'TRUE' road circuits, both are in rural areas, both in temperate climes yes they are in fact very similar. An exception is that Longford is white knuckle balls to the wall fast and The Glen is more curvy and testing not to mention 2 miles or so longer. Both have an underpass and a level crossing both have a bridge (Longford 2) both go through a town. Both circuits earned nothing but praise from visiting Europeans. Quite uncanny! really the only downer is that the Glen was finished before Longford even started.
Thanks for the credit on your site BTW (If I am 'Brend' :D ) but whatever did I do to earn it?
As for buying videos of the Tasman Series and Longford in particular it is possible, where in the this small world are you my friend?

#55 jrosenzweig

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 05:43

Vanwall, i do fastforward :lol: If i press X2 on my VCR this speeds up the taping to approx. 220kph as we taped the fast bits we could at 110kph (speed limit). Now 220kph is slightly faster than those blokes would have been driving, and i can tell you they had some courage :)

Ben have you done X2 yet?

#56 Bernd

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 07:49

Thats the only way to watch it Jamie. However the problem is then the humble Magna corners like a Brabham BT46!

#57 Pine

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 08:01

Bernd, I'm the one who called you Brend :blush: on the Watkins Glen 1948 web page. I will correct this mistake in a few days.
Here is why you got credit there:
http://www.atlasf1.c...&threadid=24871

#58 pinchevs

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 10:20

Bernd,
Indeed WG 1948 was never raced on after 1952, so a 1967 race there is a bit of a fantasy, but we feel it deserves one.

How do you intend to resove the FPS problems when going through the town? I personally think there is no avoiding a version with lower res mips for all the 3DOs, even if the buildings look far less impressive.

Talking about Mips and 3DOs, how many people do you have in your team and how much time are you able to put into actual editing?



I am very interested in the Tasman Cup videos and / or information on books on these tracks. I live in Israel :eek: , but I can deal with every video system. Where can I find these videos and will they be able to debit my credit card? I can also send $ cheques and or bank transfer.

Is there a good book about the Tasman Cups? Is there a good on-line store from your parts in which I can buy it?

I'm sorry I can't help with Longford and that this call for help of yours turned into you helping me :up:

Dear Mr. Pine,
Expect a phone call from me this weekend, perhaps even today :wave:

#59 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 11:29

Originally posted by pinchevs
...What is also the best book on
these TRACKS (note: tracks)? Do they feature in the book about the Australian GPs?

Ray,
Was it you who helped me with my thread on this forum in regard to the Pedralbes track? If it was you, I promise you I'll try to get that project going once we finish with WG48, but it might take a very long time...


No, I don't think so, not at all...

As for the AGP book, it does cover all the circuits used in the Tasman Cup series in Australia... Longford for the 1959 and 1965 races and so on.

Bernd,

I see that you indeed did get some detail from my slide of Tannery Straight... little would I have imagined when I took it that it would become world famous!

You have yet to put the houses in at the Longford Corner, too... they will come, I guess, but with or without the verandah post knocked out by the Customline?

Mountford looks great, I agree, really great, but does the track narrow just after the start like it did in reality? Or is that a difficulty with the program you're using?

Great stuff, anyway...

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#60 Bernd

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Posted 17 January 2002 - 22:41

We haven't got that far yet Moshe Our town is not yet existant so we shall see. As for time put in not enough! small amounts on weekdays and some big weekends.
There surely is a place were you can buy motorbooks in Australia and for the amount of plugs I give them I should be on commission! I'm really looking forward to when Rob Saward does his Longford book & fellow TNF'er Barry Lake does his book on The Farm.

The Pitstop Bookshop
http://www.pitstop.net.au

Heres a couple of things that may interest you, just use the keyword search feature to find them.
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Ray
The houses in fact the entire Longford Town section is not yet done. The road does narrow correctly after the line, just as it widens after Mountford. Do you think the bush starts correctly just after the railroad or is there more of a gap, also how does the it end? Just before the Tannery Building or was Rockys Tavern between the two?

#61 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 05:15

After 23 or 24 years since I was there, let me see...

The road narrowed about 100 yards or so after the start, IIRC, then there was clear paddock each side of the straight till some trees came up on the right as you go over the crest. I think.

The poplars can clearly be seen down the hill in my slides, the railway embankment was just clear... and here's a point... the grass wasn't green! It was late summer, mostly hot, bushfire season and all that when Longford was held.

The trees had a gap on the right where there was a gate into the paddock just at the turn in point for the Viaduct, and there was a sort of run-off track straight ahead at this point. In 1965 this was just dirt, maybe grassed later.

Trees were thick from the viaduct to Kings Bridge, then stayed thick the other side on the left... cabn't remember what the right hand side looked like, but the Spencer Martin photo will give you a clue. I think the pub was all there was on that side, but I may be wrong.

The service station on the left, opposite the pub, where Timmy Mayer died, was a Mobilgas, flying red horse and all, IIRC.

You have the pics of the houses on the left (rear view Spencer Martin exiting the corner, police obscuring most of the car, haybales aplenty...) this will show you pretty much what you have asked about the foliage on the left, I think.

The left of Tannery was like a huge hedge, the right was random trees growing thickly, with the odd track into the bush where lovers used to go and that sort of thing...

By the time they were looking for the brakes they were well into clear paddock scenery, with a kind of flat and uninteresting (Windsor after a flood kind of thing...) appearance for Tannery, where the road was built up and going off would mean dropping onto a lower level. The paddock straight ahead had a gate and driveway for convenient escape for late brakers...

You have enough, I should think, of Long Bridge... Newry there are photos around, then the climb out of there is quite sharp and a bit narrow between the edges of the embankments each side.. ie. not much shoulder for 50 yards or so, then evening out with crowd on the fence on the right.

I can't describe the flying mile any better than you seem to have it...

#62 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 05:17

Errm... will you be including the little plaque that shows where Timmy Mayer died?

#63 Catalina Park

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Posted 18 January 2002 - 06:54

You have to go into the Pub now to see it! It is on display with Timmy's helmet :( in a glass case on top if the stone memorial.

#64 Bernd

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Posted 20 January 2002 - 08:37

I haven't been able to locate a picture of the Timmy Meyer plaque anyone got a photo?

What I wrote before do you have more info
Do you think the bush starts correctly just after the railroad or is there more of a gap, also how does the it end? Just before the Tannery Building or was Rockys Tavern between the two?

I answered all of Rays issues on the phone.

#65 pinchevs

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Posted 21 January 2002 - 09:36

Ray,
Thanks for the info on the AGP book. One day I'll have it...
I'm sorry I made that mistake.

Bernd,
Thanks for that information about the books and the store. I'll contact them as soon as I can. Perhaps I'll be able to find the AGP book at last.

Moshe Pinchevsky

#66 Gustaf

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Posted 07 June 2002 - 05:01

:p

I just found this thread, hope you guys are still making progress on the revised layout for the GPL Longford project. I have just moved to Melbourne (a litlle bit closer to Tassie now!) so havent been able to do alot of texture/3do work for a while (not since doin the pub) sounds like we may have to make a complete 3do for pub corner. I am really stoked that there is some interest in this track, it surely deserves it!
:-)
Gustaf

#67 malomay

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 04:54

G'day

I notice that this thread seems to have been inactive for some time (looong time) so it's probably a litle late for me posting to it, but just in case this project is still awaiting some small vital bit of information in order to be complete (oh pleeeassse let it be completed !), I thought I'd post anyway.

My dad has a movie of a lap around the longford circuit taken from the window of my uncles Triumph TR4 the day of practice before first race one long weekend. If there's anything in this that might help please let me know. I've been meaning to get it off his movie reels & copy it to a DVD for posterity for sometime. I guess there's no time like the present !

cheers

Mal

#68 David Shaw

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 06:19

Thank you Mal, I will pass this information on to the person that has taken over this project. :up:

#69 ellrosso

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Posted 30 January 2009 - 07:31

Hi Bernd, I must say I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned the oldracephotos.com website re Longford photographs. I doubt whether any other website has a larger selection of Longford material (particularly 66-68) than us. We have some shots of Tannery Straight and quite a selection of the Longbridge/Newry area. We don't have every part covered though, the bump where Timmy Mayer was killed and the railway crossing up from Pub cnr is not there, however David Keep was an official as well as a photographer, so he was able to get a few vantage points where nobody else (bar other officials) could get to. Anyway, type Longford into the Advanced Search on the Home page should bring all of it up - if you are a Longford fan I'd be surprised if you don't get something out of it!

I used to drive around quite a bit of the track back in the late 70's, early 80's (had a girlfriend whose parents lived in Devonport) and I retraced most of it in 2003 when I went down on holiday, taking slides of as much of it as I could - it certainly has been decimated by the Tas Dept of Main Roads.

I also have a VHS video called Grand Prix Nostalgia (Copyright Aus-To-The-Future) which has colour footage of mid 60's Longford.
I have been told there is some in-car (2.5 Tasman openwheeler) footage from the mid 60's floating around which covers a full lap of the circuit.
Regards ellrosso

#70 woochoo

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 07:14

Hi everyone,

I've started a scratch built Longford circa 1967 for rFactor. It is underway, though rough so far. I toured around Longford today, taking photos and vids, getting a better idea of the layout. There should be a wip page up on rfactorcentral.com before too long.

Cheers!

#71 Ray Bell

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 14:05

So when you completed your lap, did you start the pit straight from the tree?

#72 HistoricMustang

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Posted 17 February 2009 - 22:20

Originally posted by woochoo
Hi everyone,

I've started a scratch built Longford circa 1967 for rFactor. It is underway, though rough so far. I toured around Longford today, taking photos and vids, getting a better idea of the layout. There should be a wip page up on rfactorcentral.com before too long.

Cheers!


Welcome to TNF!

Henry :wave:

#73 woochoo

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 02:38

Thanks for the welcome Henry

So when you completed your lap, did you start the pit straight from the tree?


yes... well... i didn't cut through the paddock :) but i imagined a straight line from the huge pine to the poplar and down to the tank.

After i posted yesterday i made some good adjustments to the track and made some tannery hedge textures and i'm about to continue work on the viaduct textures.

It appears i'm more or less hijacking this thread so i was wondering what people think about keeping this thread relevent to the gpl version or making it a combined resource for virtual Longford?

#74 Ray Bell

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:07

That's fine, I'm sure...

We're a very friendly and understanding lot here. Apart from which, half of those who've posted on this thread no longer visit, unfortunately.

Hope you're a stayer.

#75 woochoo

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 16:21

I'll try and limit myself to this thread. i can imagine spending way too long reading about stuff on a site like this.
I recieved the Long Weekend DVD yesterday and spent hours making a few corrections and a couple of additions and now i need to sleep. Once i've got some bits spruced up and more or less spot-on i'll post some screens, but that will probably be a while away. Hopefully they can conjure some virtual-nostalgia.

#76 woochoo

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 06:52

A link to my wip page. there is an out of date screen shot from Bob's Track Builder on the page. In the shot the first kink is shown as a sweeper as per the modern highway layout. Rest assured i have since done my best to replicate the kink as seen in the Long Weekend DVD.

http://rfactorcentra...D=Longford 1967

#77 thomaskomm

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 08:43

Hello woochoo!
I would be very glad if you built the longford circuit from scratch!!! This would be wonderful, if i could drive (PC) on that track!
Against i love this track and i´m a great rfactor user since rfactor release day!

Best wishes

Thomas :clap: :love:

#78 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 14:14

Yeah... well I did once or twice...

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Is this how your Tannery Straight looks, woochoo?

And have you got the verandah off, or is it pre-Customline?

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#79 woochoo

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 22:49

Thanks Ray,

Tannery straight is somewhat under-developed at this stage regarding vegetation. i really need some more accurate tree and hedge textures, which i plan to go hunting for this weekend. is this photo just beyond the railway crossing with the tannery yonder? i can tell you i do have two slight righthand kinks. one after the crossing and one after the tannery with a slight drop on the exit. And parallel tree rows, on the left starting at the pub and on the right starting at the crossing, so far they only extend up to the first kink area. it looks like there might be a shallow ditch of the sides of the road too? the road markings look ok though, with the trails between the dashes.

I hadn't seen the bottom pic before.

The verandah? do you mean on the house on the outside of pub turn? customline? i don't know what that means. i do have some haybales though :) what year are these from?

i think i'll have to post a wip vid here before too long and get some feedback one terrain, road profile etc while things are still less painful to change. bear in mind the buildings and many textures are still temp.

Thomas, i hope to make you happy!

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#80 Ray Bell

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Posted 26 February 2009 - 23:33

To be honest, I'm just guessing... but I'd guess that's the first kink coming up there...

Both shots are from '65, the year the Customline (Allford?) took out the verandah posts on one of the houses on the left.

Don't forget you also have an entry to the park area about halfway down Tannery on the right, and the hedgerow and trees evaporate maybe 500 yards or so before Tannery Corner... it became clearer there. I don't think I have a shot showing that, however. You might get some idea if you find a shot of the Long Bridge with a lot of background in it.




Edited to correct year (1965)

#81 woochoo

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 02:06

maybe the park entry is just after where the highway is today? if you drive the wrong way down what is left of tannery straight, at the end where it meets the highway, there is a gravel path to the 'infield' area.

i had hedges right up to tannery corner as per the modern situation, but having seen the footage from the Long Weekend dvd (1964 footage) i cut those back to just beyond the tannery itself on that side and will put a line of dense-ish trees in on the other side.

i guess i will be post-customline for the verandah, that is, when i get some better buildings happening.

#82 cooper997

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 04:07

It's probably a typo to state '55, but Ray's photos in post 80 would be 1965 I dare say. It was Gene Cook who demolished the verandah with his Ford Customline in the 1966 event. The verandah was never rebuilt and the house has now been completely demolished (was Gene on hand!). The Longford panelbeater expanded on to the block.

#83 canon1753

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Posted 27 February 2009 - 05:41

Does anyone know if Longford was ever completed for Grand Prix 2? Thanks! (Old boat anchor systems and keyboard play keep me from rFactor).

Good job on doing Longford for rFactor! :)

#84 woochoo

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 16:12

i don't have any info on the gp2 version, but boy do i ever remember playing gp2. ah, nostalgia. if you gotta have a boat anchor, at least you have gp2.

aside from that, i drove down to longford again today (which is now yesterday) and snapped a small collection of trees and shrubs, including the big pine and the s/f line poplar. i've just put those two in game tonite and the pine needs a bit more work, but the poplar gave me funny feelings. :love: these two trees have really kicked the track up a notch. it feels less like a 3d model and more like tarmac and dirt.

good nite! :wave:

#85 woochoo

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 13:01

one or two screens on the rfc wip page
bear in mind they are still work in progress screenshots

http://rfactorcentra...D=Longford 1967

#86 woochoo

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 15:14

hi everyone, i've re-done my viaduct, though it isn't finished

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and Gustaf of the GPL Longford project has allowed me to use his models so you will see some shots of those sometime in the future. i also have permission to use some excellent textures from the virtua_lm mod team.

but university calls and i can't ignore it much longer. i'll see what work i can include over the next couple of months.

http://rfactorcentra...D=Longford 1967

have a good one,
Shannon

#87 fines

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 17:36

Why a duck?


Sorry, couldn't resist... :blush:

#88 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 17:55

Why-a no chicken?

#89 Ray Bell

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 21:10

Disprespectful people...

Great races took place here! All the same, it doesn't look right... not dark enough under the viaduct, it seems to me.

#90 Tim Murray

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 23:12

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Disprespectful people...

Absolutely no disrespect intended to the great circuit of Longford, Ray. Sorry if it came across that way. :blush:

#91 woochoo

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 00:40

why a wire duck? it's for ornamental hedges :)

fair call on the shadows. i agree. rfactor doesn't have HDR lighting, and there are only two brick based textures on there, the main face, then the columns/underside of the arches/end wall bits, so i think it's just rfactor not doing enough with the shadows. i'll look closely into using a darker texture for the undersides but as the sun changes position it will probably show up incosistencies in the tone of the surrounding brickwork.

unless you mean on the road should be darker? the shadow on the road is a little round the corner near the roadside posts. you can judge the angle from the shadows of the trees in the other screens. around 1-2pm maybe. the sun does move so you get variable shadows.

don't worry about the highly angular peice of road in the shot either, i'm leaving it like that so it is easier to move should i find it is not quite right. it will have atleast 3x polygons once i'm done with it.

any idea on the species of trees and shrubs around that area? i'm no botanist, and those trees have all be cut down sometime in the last few years. the lighter green tree texture you see there is actually from just beyond the highway intersected area of tannery straight, as is the shrub wall you can see poking through from the far side of the first viaduct arch. i'll probably tweak the saturation of those, though in reality they are bright and rich, they are a little garish in game.

#92 cooper997

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 09:06

Woochoo, I have to give you credit for your patience in recreating Longford.

Regarding the Viaduct, what about the Shell advertising signwritten on the RH side of the viaduct. I think evidence is still there to this day.

Best of luck with the project.

Stephen

#93 Ray Bell

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 10:05

I don't believe there was any Shell (or other) advertising on the Viaduct when racing took place...

The biggest problem Longford Motor Racing Association had with funding related to their not being able to put permanent signs up. Have a look at pictures from the racing and you won't see any permanent signs, it was against the state laws to have any.

I know, I've seen a photo of the Viaduct with a sign, but it certainly wasn't there in 1965 or 1966 when I was there, I don't know when it was put up at all.

#94 woochoo

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 13:16

yeah, i've seen the evidence, but none of the photos or the dvd show it. the closest i see is on the dvd on the inside of the exit of newry, up on the bank near the crowd, it apears to be the same shell sign design.

at what ever point in history, i think the sign may have been on both sides of the first arch, i was there only a month ago and i think i remember thinking, hmm, it's on both sides...

i know it's hard to tell from a still screen shot, but do you guys have any opinion on the gradient of the drop after the first kink as show in the first shot?

#95 woochoo

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 10:44

good day,

about the Longford brake markers...
does anyone know what the dark blurs above the 200 and on the post say or represent? i don't expect you be able to read it off this shot, but maybe you have other means of knowing?

Posted Image

i was thinking it could be an advertisement for the examinar news paper? as you can see a little of on the left of this fence

http://www.oldraceph...fcac4b3c41645d5

in other news i whipped up some rail-crossing signs last nite and i've planted nine varieties of power poles in the last week or so. i think nine types are enough though i could probably pick out a few more.

#96 woochoo

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 10:49

i've done a little bit of work lately, so i'll post some screens.
it's still a long way from done, but if you can something isn't right, let me know.
Posted Image

Posted Image

cheers

#97 brabhamBT19

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:00

Where can I download longford for GPL???

since RSC went down I am lost regarding GPL :cry:

#98 woochoo

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 11:40

afaik it's not finnished and hasn't been released.
http://tasman-series...pl/longford.asp
that's about all i know of it... apart from earlier in this thread

#99 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 12:01

Originally posted by woochoo
.....does anyone know what the dark blurs above the 200 and on the post say or represent? i don't expect you be able to read it off this shot, but maybe you have other means of knowing?

Posted Image

i was thinking it could be an advertisement for the Examiner news paper? as you can see a little of on the left of this fence.....

I reckon that would be right...

[I]I've done a little bit of work lately, so I'll post some screens.
It's still a long way from done, but if you can something isn't right, let me know.[/B]

Not too bad at all...

The Porsche is too new, but otherwise it's just a bit cluttered with cars that didn't appear there in any numbers. Good work, generally.

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#100 brabhamBT19

brabhamBT19
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  • Joined: April 09

Posted 22 April 2009 - 12:20

Originally posted by woochoo
afaik it's not finnished and hasn't been released.
http://tasman-series...pl/longford.asp
that's about all i know of it... apart from earlier in this thread



the last update was in 2003 :