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Longford; the 'Reims of the South Pacific'


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#101 woochoo

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 12:42

Thanks Ray,
i agree the grid is overstocked and with some less 'authentic*' cars (the porsche is the pace car), but i can happily report that the track is good for big fields with it's long straight sections. I've run 40-odd cars out there and it's fun. it's a bit tough on framerates at the start with that many cars but once it gets moving it's good. slip streaming galore.

Thanks for the support on the examiner signage on the brake markers. i'll proceed with that.

Do you know which end of the grid the cars would enter and exit the paddock from? I believe there was a gate at both ends of the grid, one nearly halfway down towards mountford corner and another opposite the poplar tree just beyond the start finish line. i don't think i've seen any footage or photos of the transition between paddock and track.

* the cars in the screenshots are converted from the game GT Legends (as opposed to GP Legends). They are from the TC-65 class of the 2004-2006 FIA Historic Racing series. They are the closest cars i could find to the 60's Australian touring car series.

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#102 David Shaw

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 15:13

You've done a very good job from what I can see.

I think that the tree on the inside of Mountford should be more ......... significant.
It was rather large I believe, and rather distinctive.

#103 Ray Bell

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 22:28

The same thought struck me, David... much larger, it was a dominant feature on the circuit...

As for the pit entry and exit, I would think that the cars entered the circuit from the Mountford end and probably returned to the pits at that end too... but I can't be sure. However, cars coming into the pits and retiring would take the Longford end gate, as would the ambulance, in all probability.

You need movies to check that stuff. The above is all surmise on my behalf, and it might well have changed from year to year!

#104 woochoo

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 23:54

Thanks for your input David and Ray.
The bigger of the two pines on the inside of mountford is actually that very tree, except as it is now. i'd say it might have been pruned abit in the last 40-odd years so i'll have to add a bit of photoshop flesh to it.
The second of the pines, closer to the apex, all that remains of that one is a couple of meters of the trunk, so you can see the first pine is used again, and for the pine on the outside, of which nothing remains. there is a reasonable chance i'll use another pine texture for one or both of those.

Thanks for the info about the pits. at present i have them entering from the Mountford end and returning at the Longford end. Cars in rfactor never actually return (drive into) to the paddock at any stage (it's only a game), but they do leave the paddock so at least i have that bit right.

i have the space between the yellow and the white Le Mans start line defined as the 'pit lane' drive through area. Were there any specific rules relating to specific corridors, fast lanes, slow lanes, pit boxes (obviously next to the wall) or was it just a common sense approach?

#105 Ray Bell

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 01:40

I've no doubt there was a rule, but I wouldn't know the specifics...

As for the trees at Mountford... I was mistakenly agreeing with David there. It's the tree on the outside that was a monster, visible in many photos taken close to the corner. Not a pine, though, rather a hefty gum tree.

#106 woochoo

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Posted 23 April 2009 - 02:27

I'm sot so sure Ray,
I've just scanned through the long weekend video and the tree on the outside/exit, with a distinct lean away from the track, appears maybe 3/4 as tall, rather thinner, and i'm not sure but it looks more like a pine.

The way i have it so far is the first of the three trees, as one would circulate the track, is the biggest, densest pine, followed 1-2 meters later at the apex of Mountford by another smaller pine, or at least the remains of the trunk of it. I'm not sure if there is any notable increase of foliage density above the trunk, so might it have just been the trunk? It looks a little like it may have been removed even back in the 60s. Then over the other side of the track, the outside exit, is a rather tall but rather less dense and quite unruley pine tilted away from the road. It just doesn't seem like a gum, but i've never seen it in person, it's not there anymore.

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pine on the inside

actually it looks like i could have the fence closer to the road down the inside as well. and i see a red car poking out of the fence in one of the vid shots there, so that sorts the paddock exit :up:

#107 woochoo

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Posted 13 June 2009 - 02:53

a lot of the detail you can see in this shot is from the google earth image, but there are many 3d objects in there and it shouldn't be too long before i post some more informative shots.
note there is no highway. mwahaha.
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#108 Wirra

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Posted 22 June 2009 - 03:48

Not sure if this has been posted before.

64 Longford Tasman round




#109 woochoo

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 00:31

that DVD, Long Weekend at Longford, has played a pretty big role in my development of the track.
here are a few more shots
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#110 Bernd

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 09:42

Back to the brake markers on the Pole of the marker is written Jaguar and above that in small writing is the distance of that pole 100, 200 etc etc.

#111 ellrosso

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 11:26

Woochoo, I have put a few new Longford shots on the oldracephotos.com website recently so its probobly worth typing Longford into the Advanced search
and checking them out - particularly 6284_G which is not Tannery Straight as described, (I have to change the caption) but Union St coming up from Kings Bridge - the only shot we have of this angle and one of the only shots I've seen with the bridge in the background. There are also a number of shots which show the foliage around the Viaduct - type in CMS Vee or Spencer Martin into Advanced Search.
Regards, ellrosso

#112 woochoo

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 16:29

I have put a few new Longford shots on the oldracephotos.com website recently so its probobly worth typing Longford into the Advanced search
and checking them out


A FEW!!! well, it took me a coulpe of hours to check them out. i was just about to go to bed!
Uni census date is just over a week away. all these new pics are making me want to take a semester off and crank through this track. i won't though, so there won't be too much work for another period of a couple of months. just a bit here and there. overall i'd say it is about half done.

But thanks ellrosso for all those pics. oldracephotos has been a huge help so far.

Thanks Bernd for info on the brake markers

for a couple of reasons, today (actually yesterday, the 29th) has been a big day for the project.

Cheers guys
woochoo




#113 woochoo

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 11:22

still plenty of work to do on the track
(edit: there were some pics here, but i'm having trouble with image hosting at present. doh)
Tannery Road (the pub end of)
http://picasaweb.goo...feat=directlink
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Union Street (also the pub end of) this one is for Bernd ;)
http://picasaweb.goo...feat=directlink
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Cheers

Edited by woochoo, 20 September 2009 - 10:53.


#114 woochoo

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Posted 27 September 2009 - 13:49

could this be the aftermath of the verandah incident with Gene Cook's Customline that Ray mentioned? it looks like someone has plonked into the hay, perhaps knocking a post out from the verandah? or was it completly knocked down? it's from Malomay's 1965 video :)
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#115 ellrosso

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 12:29

Woochoo, Bob Wright has sent me another collection of Longford shots from a friend of his so I'll try and get them on to the oldracephotos website next weekend - there are a couple of good angles of King's bridge and Pub cnr which could be of use to you. And some cracking shots of Bruce McLaren in the Cooper Climax (pits) from 1965 too.
I'll put another posting on here once they are on.
Regards, ellrosso

#116 woochoo

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Posted 28 September 2009 - 12:56

That's sounds great. Thanks for all the shots so far. Having said that, i might be finished by now if i didn't have them :) Seriously though, i'm sure they will be a help.
Cheers!

#117 Bernd

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 03:26

Nup that ain't it mate. It was the front verandah of the house directly across from the Country Club.

For a laugh I took the BMW Sauber around the track, sweet bloody Christ these modern cars are fast on a proper circuit! I was hitting over 340KPH along the mile and heading towards the Viaduct. Backing off and braking far to early (the bloody thing is too quick for me) I still turned a 1.45 lap. Madness!

Edited by Bernd, 29 September 2009 - 03:28.


#118 woochoo

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Posted 29 September 2009 - 03:49

that is the shed directly across from the pub. i guess it must've been the house next door?
yeah man, modern cars are insane. the narrow twisty bit from the viaduct to the bridge is a pretty full on and with modern downforce, even at over 200km they don't get air over the crossing!

i made the tennis court last night. i made it a grass court. does anyone know if it was grass, or asphalt or synthetic or clay or what? i figured grass was a pretty safe bet.
and of course that in no way effects the racing experience. you can't even see it unless you drive round the back of the pub!

#119 ellrosso

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 08:31

Woochoo, I've finally had some time to get those Longford pics on the oldracephotos.com website. I've put a few in Tracks which will be of real interest to you - especially one from 1962 which shows a shed off to the side of the end of Kings Bridge. This shed had disappeared in 1963! Also some great shots of Tannery straight which shows a property that was obviously a communal hang-out for large groups of friends I'd say - red XK120 in the back yard of one of the shots.
I also have some great shots on a CD from Eddie Wilson(Tassy) but I need to talk to him about whether they can be used or not - great shot of 2 Mk2 Jags coming up to the Railway crossing looking back towards the pub (in colour too).
Cheers, ellrosso

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#120 Bernd

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 09:15

Sounds like Rocky's Tavern to me.

#121 woochoo

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Posted 15 October 2009 - 12:45

Also some great shots of Tannery straight which shows a property that was obviously a communal hang-out for large groups of friends I'd say - red XK120 in the back yard of one of the shots.

i think those shots are out the back of the pub on union street, so i think it's the entrance to pub turn, you can see the tires marking the inside of the turn, and the white fence can be seen in other photos out the back of the pub. never-the-less it's a useful angle. so far i haven't had any real idea what was out the back there. looks like a shed or two.

some good shots of that shed up on the concrete rise too. i assume that was to save it in a flood situation. anyone know the purpose of the shed? i guess it must be worth it to build it raised up like that. good shot of king's bridge construction too. i now feel compelled to change my current interpretation to a more accurate version (doh!).

looks like the rail bridge was much shinier in those days too. i've got a modern rusty version in there so far. i believe it also had some white brick columns at either end. i think they're in the distance in these new photos. i'll have to investigate that sometime.

nice new angles of the terrain around the second kink that i'll have to incorporate too.

what a brilliant time to have uni exams coming up :rolleyes:

Thanks again for these, and all the other photos ellrosso :up: you're in my credits list. i think one day i'll have to buy a Longford photo from you.


#122 ellrosso

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Posted 16 October 2009 - 01:42

Happy to help out Woochoo. That would make sense that its the back of the pub on Union St - Tannery Straight wouldn't be a particularly exciting place to spectate for any length of time. Regards, ellrosso

#123 woochoo

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 11:40

Hi everybody, here is a video of the track so far. There is still plenty to do and any feedback is welcome.
The car is a Mustang from the rFactor CSGT mod. Some models from the original GPL project are featured, with thanks to Gustaf, and thanks to everyone here for your help so far.

Longford 1967 WIP Video

Cheers!

Edited by woochoo, 29 November 2009 - 11:40.


#124 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 12:01

Not bad at all!

Keep up the good work...

#125 Ellis French

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 20:33

Very well done.
I like the paint lines on the road with the dribble bits between the solids just like they used to be.
The gate left open for run off at the end of Tannery is too wide and you need to hold it flat off Long Bridge....lol
Excellent recreation.
I've just got my old 8mm movies returned (last week) from a long term borrower (6yrs) and having them digitised. I'll contact you and send you a copy when they come back. Its mainly filmed from Mountford, start line area, down to and including the Viaduct from both sides ie entry and exit.
Keep up the good work.

Ellis

#126 Ray Bell

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 20:59

What years are your movies, Ellis?

And I've got to admit I didn't look for that open gate...

#127 woochoo

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 03:20

Thanks for the comments guys.

The gate left open for run off at the end of Tannery is too wide


i based the width of the gate on the blurry onboard footage late in the Longweekend dvd, so that was from '64. I know it's a lot more narrow nowadays, and even moved to the left a little. Do you have a photo of it back in the day? It's only guess work from the DVD.

you need to hold it flat off Long Bridge

i just had a few cracks at heading off the bridge flat, and while i can generally get through the left, pulling up for newry is the major issue, i can get round there, but way off the apex. it might be a bit better if i had setup skills.

That would be great if you could send me a copy of the footage Ellis, thanks very much.

edit: i just found that there is better line where i can get through the left off the bridge and still stop for newry. there is some nice camber somewhere near the apex of the left which i can hook a wheel into which stops the car hopping over the crown as the road changes direction and getting unbalanced, so now i can (when i hit the spot) pull up for newry nice and easy. trouble is i've gotta find the spot again.

Edited by woochoo, 30 November 2009 - 04:45.


#128 Ellis French

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 10:33

Woochoo
Dont forget the Starters podium......

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Yes you do have to find the groove off the Bridge.....

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Ray
Movies are 68, 67, 66 from memory

Ellis





#129 Doug Nye

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 18:05

Woochoo - I'm not at all accustomed to seeing these recreation graphics thingies but Longford '67 has just left me enthralled...

Congratulations on a wonderful job (so far).

DCN

#130 woochoo

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 04:16

Cheers Doug, it sounds like you're one step away from becoming a sim-racing addict :lol:

Ellis, to be honest i'm not sure the starters podium will get a gig. obviously it is wheeled off after the start but rFactor doesn't have any mechanism for this as far as i know. I've even gone so far as to put a traffic light start system on the underside of the footbridge. i know that might upset some people but it's discreet. I would love to have a 3D man dropping the flag, but the best i would be able to manage is a paper-thin 2D animation of a flag-dropping man, which even if it was in the right spot, people on the front row at least wouldn't be able to see him. so, at this stage, it's a traffic light. you might be able to see it in the vid.

here is an animation of me flat-chat off the bridge. note that i can't get off the bridge flat without flicking it into a drift, but then it settles nicely on the otherside of the crown for braking uphill and into the camber (never mind the lock up).
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#131 Ellis French

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 06:52

Woochoo

Only joking about the Starter
Nice drift off the bridge in the Mustang..Big Pete would be proud..wouldnt try it flat in an Open wheeler tho.
I showed it to a colleague who said it would be nice if you could buy it (just the lap on Youtube) with your own car
showing same as Mustang in the screen.

Nice work.

Ellis

#132 mctshirt

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 07:52

Marvellous! Two thumbs up!

#133 Ray Bell

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 07:59

I've got to say I'm getting e.mails from various unlikely sources telling me to try this!

All are very excited about your lap of Longford...

#134 thomaskomm

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Posted 07 December 2009 - 19:01

Yeaahh, very good interpretation of the course, and this is 0.1! I will impatiently waiting to drive this masterpiece one day in rfactor. See the flow of the turns and you can think about the brave of the drivers to that days! Very good Woochooo!!!

Thomas :clap:

#135 malomay

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Posted 18 December 2009 - 04:23

Hi everybody, here is a video of the track so far. There is still plenty to do and any feedback is welcome.
The car is a Mustang from the rFactor CSGT mod. Some models from the original GPL project are featured, with thanks to Gustaf, and thanks to everyone here for your help so far.

Longford 1967 WIP Video

Cheers!


Shannon, that is bl**dy brilliant !. I haven't checked these forums for a while (since I sent you the video actually) but to see this lap in full has absolutely blown me away !. I am really looking forward to showing dad this clip on the weekend, he will be stoked.

One other thing.......it looks like I reallllly have to get set up with rFactor now & see if I can help u with any testing :-)

really impressed mate

cheers

Mal.



#136 woochoo

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 12:00

Thanks for the support everyone and have a Happy New Year!

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#137 cooper997

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 07:30

woochoo,

I salute your efforts in recreating the great Longford circuit and it's environs (and don't wish to sound critical), but you've added a bit of artistic licence with the Monaro. The final Longford race meeting was on Saturday March 2nd & Monday March 4th, 1968. The first HK Monaro didn't get released until later that year in July (IIRC).


Stephen

#138 Michael Ferner

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 11:03

Excellent!!!! Had to watch it a second time immediately, loved every second of it! :up::up::up::up:

#139 woochoo

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Posted 02 January 2010 - 16:33

you've added a bit of artistic licence with the Monaro.


Indeed I have, they're really nice to drive around there, and being an Australian car, and being very nearly the same period, and being just outside the pub, i though "well, why not?" :)

That video is over a month old now, a few things have changed so i might have to make a new video soon. The list of work to do is finally beginning to shorten rather than lengthen which is a good sign too, though i might have just stopped writting stuff down. I've been doing a bit of landscaping around Newry Corner this evening so that is looking better. Popped a few road-side marker posts in around the first kink after Newry too. Adjusted some road widths between the start line and the viaduct as well. late last year (just before christmas) i spent three days hanging power lines around the the whole circuit and am now sure i'll need to make some more types of powerpoles. Yesterday i stacked up a trailer full of hay bales around the viaduct. That all sounds very exciting doesn't it! haha

There are some new features coming in the the track building program Bob's Track Builder soon, so that will add some polish to the track

people post silly stuff in the wee hours of the morning, the flying mile 1985 style:
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Thanks again for the support

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#140 tania34

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 08:25

woochoo,

I salute your efforts in recreating the great Longford circuit and it's environs (and don't wish to sound critical), but you've added a bit of artistic licence with the Monaro. The final Longford race meeting was on Saturday March 2nd & Monday March 4th, 1968. The first HK Monaro didn't get released until later that year in July (IIRC).


Stephen

I must agree absolutely fantastic well done woochoo. :up:
Did no one notice the "Boags beer".

#141 woochoo

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 10:59

I must agree absolutely fantastic well done woochoo. :up:
Did no one notice the "Boags beer".


I'm from Hobart and i got a cascade of wierd, contradictory emotions when i was making that sign :mad: :lol:
If anyone is interested i'm about to do a better job of the roadside on the flying mile tonight. Earlier today i extended that bit of road so that it reaches from Newry corner to just before the bend that leads to the outskirts of Perth. So now i've got more or less two miles to fly along.


#142 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 18:24

Woochoo - you will be thrilled to hear (ha ha - how patronising - I certainly don't mean it that way) that I have circulated the YouTube link around various members of the BRDC - all of whom express combined surprise and sheer admiration. Oh - and Derek Hill was just blown away by seeing the circuit on which his late father drove his last race in a single-seater..."Especially that dipping ess under the railway". Wonderful job.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 12 January 2010 - 18:28.


#143 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 19:50

And his greatest race...

Good job, woochoo.

#144 Doug Nye

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 20:18

All it needs now is spectators, marshals - and Tasman Formula cars? No pressure.

DCN


#145 Ray Bell

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Posted 12 January 2010 - 21:39

... and the bark of an angry Climax 4!

Which I must admit I used to think was so uninspiring...

#146 woochoo

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 03:49

Thanks for spreading the word Doug, I'm very happy that it's more than just sim racers (no offence to sim racers) that are excited by the track. I suppose it has a bit of a historic/archival function too and it's nice to be able to augment the historic material available such as the Long Weekend DVD, books, film, photos, stories and memories.

Over Chirstmas one of my aunties told me she was at a few of the races and has some high profile autographs in a box somewhere. She had a look at the youtube video and seemed quite enthused. One of my uncles who was just getting into motorsport in the late 60's (never went to Longford) had a drive around the track last week and while it took a little getting used to he seemed to be enjoying it very much, tense shoulders and all. He even took a virtual version of Mark Weber's 2008 Red Bull for a couple of laps.

Well, these are actually '67 F1 cars (converted from the game Grand Prix Legends), but close enough for a picture
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Edited by woochoo, 13 January 2010 - 08:40.


#147 David McKinney

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 08:55

Wouldn't it have been so much better if photographers (or probably picture editors) published photos like that back in the day, rather than a nice tight shot showing perhaps two cars, but without the background which this version gives, allowing a proper 'feel' for the circuit.
My comment doesn't apply only to Longford, of course

#148 Stephen W

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:01

Wouldn't it have been so much better if photographers (or probably picture editors) published photos like that back in the day, rather than a nice tight shot showing perhaps two cars, but without the background which this version gives, allowing a proper 'feel' for the circuit.
My comment doesn't apply only to Longford, of course


This is becoming more & more the requirement of the modern Sub-Editors to support event reports. They only seem to want a "tight shot" of a single car when reporting on that specific car or driver. It may provide a scenic view and thus a "feel for the circuit" however it doesn't help the drivers with respect to their sponsors!

:wave:

#149 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:02

What Dave says. Actually Geoff Goddard did more than most to frame his photographs with some geographical setting or sense of background. It's really since the 1970s that tight framing on car and asphalt alone has so diminished motor racing photography. This has been partly in response to a drive for commissioning editors or agency heads to require a client sponsor's advertising in the background of a shot. Or probably moreso due to the proliferation of debris fences in which access slots confine photographers all to the same place, shooting frames which can only clone their colleagues'. One or two modern pros make the extra effort, and their work stands out from the general stereotyped dross.

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 13 January 2010 - 09:24.


#150 Ray Bell

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Posted 13 January 2010 - 09:15

I well recall Geoff Sykes talking on this subject...

He lamented that Australian magazines in the sixties used such tight and backgroundless pics. "Not like British and European magazines!" he said.

Then came the seventies, Doug?

Nigel Snowden did some nice framing too, while the classic shot of Doug Whiteford at Bathurst in 1952, taken by Byron Gunther, is a great example of how it should be done.

The pic of Long Bridge above is exactly the framing I have for several of my slides, by the way. I've posted some of them before.