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Longford; the 'Reims of the South Pacific'


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#351 cavvy

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 05:59

Hi all,

I am after some specific items for my construction of Longford for Grand Prix Legends. So far it is coming along quite nicely but for lack of data in the following areas.

1. A scan of a Longford Program Cover, any will do but 67 or especially 68 would be perfect.

2. Photo's of the Newry corner area and the famous Viaduct or anywere else for that matter, preferably from the late 60's as the track varied quite a bit in appearance over its lifetime.

3. A detailed map of the circuit and an aerial shot would be great.

If you do have these things just post them to the thread, many thanks in advance!

Other than I would love to hear from anyone who has tales to tell of this fantasic old circuit.

Graham Hill - The last of the old style of true road circuits.

Jack Brabham - There is nothing else in the southern hemisphere to equal it.


Can anyone confirm the 1962 Australian Touring Car Championship is the only national title (apologies to the Australian Grand Prix) to be decided at the Longford?

Can anyone help with photos of Graham Hill in the Brabham BT11a at Longford in 1965?




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#352 David Shaw

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 07:07

1960 Australian Tourist Trophy, won by Derek Jolly in the Lotus 15.

#353 ellrosso

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 10:17

Cavvy, we have a number of shots (both colour and b/w) of the Hill Brabham on the oldracephotos.com website from 1965 and also in 1968,69 in John McCormack's ownership.

#354 W154

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:17

It is the same rock. I am sure of it.
From what I remember one of the Magazines did a story on Longford in the late 70s or early 80s. It may have been SCW. It had a photo of the Mayer memorial.

As for the helmet in the glass case, I don't find it distasteful or offensive. I found it to be a stark reminder of what racing was. A stone on the side of the road (or in a pub) as a memorial does not give you the kick in the guts that seeing the helmet in the glass case does. It reminded me that racing is a sport that can kill and it can do it suddenly without warning.
A plaque on the side of the track can never give such a feeling.

Bullshit!
Obviously sir ,you have never stood at the Jim Clark Memorial at Hockenheim.

#355 275 GTB-4

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:27

The Echuca event sounds promising,but the carnival atmosphere will be dissipated by the distances seperating the displays and events.
I don't want to sound like a knocker,it's great when things like Speed on Tweed get created out of nothing and get legs.Equally it is a
bit sad when a magnificent venue like Mount Panorama,with beautiful Bathurst nearby,attempts to get a good idea going in the "Festival
of Sporting Cars" but the event is so stretched for funds,credibility and support it ends up being For The Competitors,with Zero Festival,
almost no spectators,not a single canteen across the top of the Mountain....they would have been better off letting the public in for free
and charging those interested to go into the pit area.Which was practically a necessity,there was nowhere else to get a cup of coffee !
Festival ? Who said Festival? Having said that,for our group it was a nice low key weekend,but then again we are diehard enthusiasts
not festival goers...but gee it would have been nice to buy a cuppa and some food on top of the hill !

In 2008 I went and stayed at the Park Hotel.Great atmosphere,good local band,good bistro yadda yadda BUT there were two German
stallholders who were crying in their beers on the Saturday night,they had decided to bring their German Sausage stall to Australia
for what was put on the event website information package as some huge Festival. Smoke dreams by public/private partnerships with
no hope of success damage everyone and make it EVEN LESS LIKELY a dinky-di Event will ever happen as we see so many half-assed
things flop.
Is Australia really a dull,unimaginitive but inappropriately optimistic bunch of tossers and dreamers ? Very often it would seem,and the
strange outcomes in the brittle alliance between Bathurst Council and Motorsport Persons exemplify it perfectly.The over-regulated,
boring,bogan infested Bathurst 1000 can cost you $500 to attend over 3 days,for which you get harrasment,delays and petty rules from
Tony Cochranes goon squads,more merchandising in your face than the showbag pavilion at the Easter Show,support races that get
stopped or shortened if they interfere with the precious Dinosaur Supercars (they are already historic in their own right).If it were't for
the residual party atmosphere at night on top of the mountain,I would never go again.

Well done Public Money/Private Profit Partnership. I hope The Cockroach gets kicked out of Olympic Park when NSW Government changes,
and he might be forced to go snivelling up to the ARDC at Eastern Creek.


Hard to disagree with your words there Johhny...man! I would have killed for some German Sausage, sauerkraut and mustard whilst Marshaling upon the mountain at Easter :love: :rotfl:

#356 Ray Bell

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 13:33

Originally posted by ellrosso
Cavvy, we have a number of shots (both colour and b/w) of the Hill Brabham on the oldracephotos.com website from 1965 and also in 1968-69 in John McCormack's ownership.


Sorry, wrong car...

That was the car in which Hill won the race in '64.

#357 Ellis French

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Posted 01 July 2010 - 23:05

But Hill and Brabham were in /on the same car in 1964 at Longford....


Blurred Proof..

Posted Image

#358 cavvy

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 02:10

But Hill and Brabham were in /on the same car in 1964 at Longford....


Blurred Proof..

Posted Image


Thanks guys, its 1965 I am interested in, a BT 11a year. Stillwell in IC-2-64, Gardner in chassis #3, Hill chassis #4, Brabham chassis #5.

Cheers

Edited by cavvy, 02 July 2010 - 02:33.


#359 SJ Lambert

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 04:14

1960 Australian Tourist Trophy, won by Derek Jolly in the Lotus 15.



May have been the last time a Tourist Trophy Winning car was driven, not trailered, to and from the meeting too!!

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#360 ellrosso

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 05:05

Looks like I've got a few captions to change Ray! We've got a b/w of Brabham leading Hill out of Mountford in 1965 - which is definitely 1965. Type Graham Hill into the Advanced Search and it should be on the 3rd page. There is also one of McLaren leading Hill but the car is obscured.

#361 johnny yuma

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:53

Hard to disagree with your words there Johhny...man! I would have killed for some German Sausage, sauerkraut and mustard whilst Marshaling upon the mountain at Easter :love: :rotfl:

You're blood's worth bottling for marshalling there brother----but the German sausage men
did not return !!

#362 Ray Bell

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 08:48

On the subject of title races, did the ATCC get a mention yet?

And Matich won an ATT there as well.

#363 cavvy

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 22:57

On the subject of title races, did the ATCC get a mention yet?

And Matich won an ATT there as well.


1962 ATCC yes.

3 x Australian Tourist Trophy events -
1960 Derek Jolly Lotus 15 (thanks David)
1964 Frank Matich Lotus 19b
1966 Frank Matich Elfin 400 Traco

Any of these cars still complete & in Aus?



#364 SJ Lambert

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 10:21

"1962 ATCC yes.

3 x Australian Tourist Trophy events -
1960 Derek Jolly Lotus 15 (thanks David)
1964 Frank Matich Lotus 19b
1966 Frank Matich Elfin 400 Traco

Any of these cars still complete & in Aus?"


Jolly's spanner man says the 15 is the same one that Jolly & Chapman entered in Le Mans in '59 (as a Team Lotus entry) - Hill was nicely placed around when he handed over to Jolly who later missed a gear in the queer box which led to a rod escaping from the block - car came back to Australia with a 2.0 litre motor - eventually the 15 went to Bevan Gibson before later being sold at auction in UK.

The 1966 Elfin 400 ex Matich has lived in Victoria for 20 plus years - one of it's sister 400s that sparred with it at Longford (the Jane one) is also in Victoria and the Ex Bassett/Hurd (Globe Products 400) one lives near Launy.

I imagine Ray could tell you what happened to the 19B............

Edited by SJ Lambert, 16 August 2010 - 13:03.


#365 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 11:01

Not a prayer...

It ceased to exist after the crash in June '65. Geoff Smedley would be better placed to explain that.

#366 David McKinney

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 11:28

...and until he gets here:

The wreck went back to Lotus and was replaced with a different 15 which for obvious reasons :) had the same chassis number as the Le Mans car. It was the replacement that went to the Gibsons

#367 SJ Lambert

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 11:53

...and until he gets here:

The wreck went back to Lotus and was replaced with a different 15 which for obvious reasons :) had the same chassis number as the Le Mans car. It was the replacement that went to the Gibsons



Geoff can explain the 19B - the original XV was a 1475cc one - pranged at Albert Park in 58? when a rear radius arm pulled out of body mounting and was sent back to UK for repairs - deal was done to replace it with a 2.5 litre one that then had it's problems at Le Mans in '59 - came back to Oz with a 2.0 litre donk as a replacement 2.5 crank couldn't be sourced - it was that replacment one that ended up in Bevan's hands wasn't it? Makes it the 2.0 litre one saluting first at 1960 TT doesn't it?

Edited by SJ Lambert, 03 July 2010 - 12:59.


#368 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 12:05

Are we going to count the Williams parts and manhours that went into the final rebuild?

Yes, the 1960 ATT was an achievement for a 2-litre car, but there was no other really lightweight modern car with that power in the country at the time.

#369 Smedley (Geoff)

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 13:04

From Examiner Newspaper Sat 12/6/10...

Posted Image


Great headline, but as far from factual as reincarnation itself as all will agree!

#370 Ray Bell

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 13:07

While on the subject of the Jolly 15, here's a pic I've been sent:

Posted Image

#371 David Shaw

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 13:14

That photo certainly emphasises its height, or lack of it.

#372 Ellis French

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 22:54

Great headline, but as far from factual as reincarnation itself as all will agree!


Agree with Geoff.
and
They could have at least mentioned the importance/history of the car in the photo.

#373 Smedley (Geoff)

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 11:45

Agree with Geoff.
and
They could have at least mentioned the importance/history of the car in the photo.


Yes Ellis,
That's the old beast I cared for at Longford in '68 when Leo. G. owned it and it was then powered by the Repco V8.

#374 Smedley (Geoff)

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 12:38

While on the subject of the Jolly 15, here's a pic I've been sent:

Posted Image

Ray, that has stirred some passed memories!!

That D.J. Lotus 15 sticks in my mind, In the early late 50s - 60s that little jigger appeared at Longford and had a bit of an "off "in practice and I was approached by Derrick to re-machine the brake discs or or "rotors' as referred to today. I was informed that these items had to be true to a tolerance of two millionths of an inch !! When I inquired how such fine tolerance was measured I was told it had been carefully measured in the pits by his mechanic using a lady's hair slide and a cigarette paper, Anyway, not having been used to working to such minute measurements I worked to the nearest thousand of an inch and never let on I didn't possess such accurate measuring equipment I had to rely only on micrometers and dial indication. Perhaps one of my earliest experiences with the intricate workings of the "racing mechanic"

#375 Ray Bell

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 13:21

Just shows, Geoff...

You can't trust those South Australians!

Great story. As always.

#376 SJ Lambert

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 10:10

1962 ATCC yes.

3 x Australian Tourist Trophy events -
1960 Derek Jolly Lotus 15 (thanks David)
1964 Frank Matich Lotus 19b
1966 Frank Matich Elfin 400 Traco

Any of these cars still complete & in Aus?


Not sure if the 19B is pictured on the line for it's main event or whether it's a precursor to the TT, but I reckon it's the 1964 meeting - Posted Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Edited by SJ Lambert, 05 July 2010 - 11:06.


#377 275 GTB-4

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:11

Hi all,

I am after some specific items for my construction of Longford for Grand Prix Legends. So far it is coming along quite nicely but for lack of data in the following areas.

1. A scan of a Longford Program Cover, any will do but 67 or especially 68 would be perfect.

2. Photo's of the Newry corner area and the famous Viaduct or anywere else for that matter, preferably from the late 60's as the track varied quite a bit in appearance over its lifetime.

3. A detailed map of the circuit and an aerial shot would be great.

If you do have these things just post them to the thread, many thanks in advance!

Other than I would love to hear from anyone who has tales to tell of this fantasic old circuit.

Graham Hill - The last of the old style of true road circuits.

Jack Brabham - There is nothing else in the southern hemisphere to equal it.


Bernd, from a Taswegian who has been involved in Motorsport and things automotive for over 40 years:

Quote
Very bloody accurate!

Especially:
the old style black and white speed limit sign
the landscape features in the background
the original look of the corner pub, including the Boags sign
the hills in the background
even the bloody weather - overcast!
Unquote

Well done mate! Cheers, Mick

#378 David Shaw

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 11:28

Not sure if the 19B is pictured on the line for it's main event or whether it's a precursor to the TT, but I reckon it's the 1964 meeting -


I think you're right about 1964, and there doesn't appear to have been another open scratch race for sports cars, so it looks to be the TT start.
Probably Gardner in Mildren's 23 on the far side.

#379 woochoo

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 03:40

I'll release the virtual version of the track this week. Uni starts again next week and im pretty happy with how the track is after 14-15 months. I'll post some more pics and another video or two for those who don't play computer games as well.
edit: i've even done a little work to increase the incline out of Newry up to the Flying Mile. Surely still not perfect, but better.

Edited by woochoo, 10 July 2010 - 01:47.


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#380 SJ Lambert

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 10:22

Just shows, Geoff...

You can't trust those South Australians!

Great story. As always.


Oh, I dunno, there's a couple more shots of the XV at Longford courtesy of kaydee if he's content to allow them up? - He could comment on it's highway handling..........

#381 woochoo

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 10:42

There are two final vids on youtube.


the other features a '67 Brabham F1 in the rain, but there are ownership issues with the '67 F1 models, so i won't post the link here. It won't be hard to find though.


#382 275 GTB-4

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 11:07

There are two final vids on youtube.


the other features a '67 Brabham F1 in the rain, but there are ownership issues with the '67 F1 models, so i won't post the link here. It won't be hard to find though.


WooChoo, from a Taswegian who has been involved in Motorsport and things automotive for over 40 years:

Quote
Very bloody accurate!

Especially:
the old style black and white speed limit sign
the landscape features in the background
the original look of the corner pub, including the Boags sign
the hills in the background
even the bloody weather - overcast!
Unquote

Well done mate! Cheers, Mick



Top Stuff WC...my comments above were of course directed at you, not Bernd, take a bow! :)

#383 woochoo

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 12:50

Top Stuff WC...my comments above were of course directed at you, not Bernd, take a bow! :)

Well, i'll take this opportunity to thank Bernd once again, because he has had a part in making my version what it is.
And thanks to you too, and the other guys here who have helped.

Edited by woochoo, 10 July 2010 - 12:50.


#384 LittleChris

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 17:08

Just superb. Well done Woochoo. :clap:

#385 woochoo

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 03:51

well, here it is for all you (not many here i guess) who play rFactor - Longford 1967 v0.9
http://www.filefront...d 1967 v0.9.rar

here are some pics for those who don't play - click for larger images

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

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oh, and a MASSIVE THANKS to EVERYONE HERE who has helped out or likes what i've done!

Edited by woochoo, 11 July 2010 - 04:57.


#386 Raido

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 04:19

Even though I'm not from Oztralia, a MASSIVE THANKS for all the work you put into making this one as true-to-life as possible Woochoo! :kiss:

#387 johnny yuma

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 07:25

Most here pronounce the continent as "Strayah" :D

#388 Catalina Park

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:26

Most here pronounce the continent as "Strayah" :D

Have you ever noticed that the Queen pronounces it Horse Trailer?


#389 Bernd

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 07:05

Bloody hell that looks good mate even from the last version I saw... Brilliant work.

Must find my copy of rFactor! But if I'm not able to find it any news on the GTR2 version?

#390 woochoo

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 08:54

Bloody hell that looks good mate even from the last version I saw... Brilliant work.

Must find my copy of rFactor! But if I'm not able to find it any news on the GTR2 version?

Cheers Bernd,
There are plans for GTL and GTR2, not sure when though, i'm not doing it, and i believe a conversion for Race 07 may have gotten underway today.

#391 willini

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 12:01

Many thanks Woochoo. I am sure to spend many hours playing it on R-Factor. It is people like yourself that make sim gaming so much fun, allowing us to sample some of those lost tracks. Even though I am a former Tasmanian I am not quite old enough to have been to Longford, but from the pictures I have seen you have done a magnificent job of recreating it. Thanks to all those who have helped Woochoo with advice, pictures and videos to help him capture the track so well. :)

#392 woochoo

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Posted 16 July 2010 - 04:11

...any news on the GTR2 version?

I think the conversion is complete, and for GTL, GTR Evo and the Race series, and a World Racing 2 conversion is in progress. There should be release links in the next day or two. Fire up yr P&G, i'm sure it will be a blast!

coversion links at NoGrip - with thanks to Ken and Anon
GT Legends - Longford 1967
GTR-2 - Longford 1967
Race On - Longford 1967

Edited by woochoo, 17 July 2010 - 03:00.


#393 275 GTB-4

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:04

Have you ever noticed that the Queen pronounces it Horse Trailer?


Liz can't help it Mike...its where she comes from and how she was raised :p :cool:


#394 Ellis French

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 22:20

Posted Image

Posted Image

The latest info in the form of a postcard for the planned event.
The website has download forms for whatever is required.

#395 Wirra

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 22:41

My theory of involving car clubs in events has been shot down in flames. CARnival has been postponed through lack of interest... Times, they are a-changin'.
http://www.camscarni...dia_release.asp

#396 woochoo

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 01:36

Hi everyone,
A little update for anyone who is interested: my version of Longford has been released for four or five different racing games, and overall has been downloaded somewhere near 7000 times! I've no idea how many of those people would have heard of Longford before, but it's getting out there a bit.

yesterday i was trawling youtube and came across this video a Spanish guy named Jose Didot has made using '67 F1 cars and Longford in rFactor. It's a bit cinematic with an decent choice of soundtrack. Gave me a bit of a thrill.
- Thanks Jose

#397 Ellis French

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 08:28

Have a look here for a snippet of my old 8mm movies only recently converted to DVD...





#398 eskimut

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 21:12

Have a look here for a snippet of my old 8mm movies only recently converted to DVD...



Nice footage there Ellis, is there a old holden clip coming .....?

#399 Ellis French

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Posted 18 August 2010 - 22:09

GP
You can put it up as you have a copy and..... more spare time than me

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#400 ellrosso

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:05

Great footage Ellis, Is that shot of Mike up on 2 wheels the subject of David's famous still shot which appeared in Australasian Post etc?
Also , have you ever seen that in-car footage when they mounted a 16mm camera on a Tasman car for a lap of Longford? Leigh Stephens reckoned one of the ex ABC guys in Hobart may have it - would be great to track it down. Cheers, ellrosso