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Collecting Classics, which drivers have trully done it?


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#1 Atreiu

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:05

Have you guys read http://plus.autospor...n-ultimate-set/ ?

The criteria is for a circuit to have 30 GPs or more, and Lewis has won at all of them. So has Schumacher.

It is a valid criteria, but I think there are other circuits that now deserve classic cult status. Namely, Interlagos and Suzuka (Hungaroring and Albert Park deserve consideration).
Both have decided WDCs and seen incredible racing. Interlagos goes back to the 70s and the very first turbo beasts. It was out for a while in the 80s and returned in a very different shape. But it has grown into one of the hot spots of the calendar from Senna's 91 triumph throuh all the wet/wild races and title deciders. Suzuka came much later, but it is one of the most loved circuits and has seen a lot from Senna x Prost all the way through Hakkinen's titles, Schumacher getting it done in huge style in 2000, the madness of 2005 and now Vettel.

So, IMO, my list of classic circuits currently on the calendar would be another.
Not to mention neither these versions of the Nurburgring or Hockenheim are classical. They were just built next to or right over the classics.


What do you guys think? Which are the current classic circuits?

My list is, in no particular order:
Monza,
Suzuka,
Spa,
Monaco,
Silverstone (even though I dislike the changes it has suffered for a while),
Interlagos,
Circuit GV.

And I'd have to give some thought to:
Hungaroring,
Albert Park.

Edited by Atreiu, 10 September 2012 - 16:33.


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#2 joshb

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:07

Have you guys read http://plus.autospor...n-ultimate-set/ ?

The criteria is for a circuit to have 30 GPs or more, and Lewis has won at all of them. So has Schumacher.

It is a valid criteria, but I think there are other circuits that now deserve classic cult status. Namely, Interlagos and Suzuka (Hungaroring and Albert Park deserve consideration).
Both have decided WDCs and seen incredible racing. Interlagos goes back to the 70s and the very first turbo beasts. It was out for a while in the 80s and returned in a very different shape. But it has grown into one of the hot spots of the calendar from Senna's 91 triumph throuh all the wet/wild races and title deciders. Suzuka came much later, but it is one of the most loved circuits and has seen a lot from Senna x Prost all the way through Hakkinen's titles, Schumacher getting it done in huge style in 2000, the madness of 2005 and now Vettel.

So, IMO, my list of classic circuits currently on the calendar would be another.
Not to mention neither these versions of the Nurburgring or Hockenheim are classical. They were just built next to or right over the classics.


What do you guys think? Which are the current classic circuits?

My list is, in no particular order:
Monza,
Suzuka,
Spa,
Monaco,
Silverstone (even though I dislike the changes it has suffered for a while),
Interlagos,
Circuit GV.

And I'd have to give some thought to:
Hungaroring,
Ablert Park.


Whilst there will be many views on 'Classic' circuits (Mine are Spa, Silverstone, Suzuka, Monza, Monaco) but nonetheless, a wide range of tracks that Hamilton has won on.

#3 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:30

Whilst there will be many views on 'Classic' circuits (Mine are Spa, Silverstone, Suzuka, Monza, Monaco) but nonetheless, a wide range of tracks that Hamilton has won on.


My idea on the "Classic circuits among current F1 tracks

Tier 1: These tracks should be written into the Concorde Agreement. These should all be permanent fixtures as long as they keep up with safety standards. They have all changed over time, but they still retain their character.
Monaco
Monza
Spa
Silverstone

Tier 2:
Suzuka
Interlagos
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Tier 3: (I don't care how many times F1 goes, they'll never be "classic" to me.)
Hockenheim: Long history, but the character of the new layout is too different from the old, so any "classic" designation went away with the long straights through the woods.
Hungaroring: They've been going there for a long time, but it has never been a good track.
Barcelona:

Tier 4: Too new to be considered classic
Everything else





#4 crooky369

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:34

snip


What tier is Nurburgring in?

#5 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 16:52

What tier is Nurburgring in?


The F1 track? Tier 3.

#6 ForzaGTR

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:01

Circuit Gilles Villeneuve is a great track in my opinion, the racing is usually exciting and the setting is rather nice, being on an island!

#7 crooky369

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:19

The F1 track? Tier 3.


I agree. But for arguments sake why is Silverstone tier 1 when it's also changed so much?

#8 MrMontecarlo

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:22

My idea on the "Classic circuits among current F1 tracks

Tier 1: These tracks should be written into the Concorde Agreement. These should all be permanent fixtures as long as they keep up with safety standards. They have all changed over time, but they still retain their character.
Monaco
Monza
Spa
Silverstone

Tier 2:
Suzuka
Interlagos
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Tier 3: (I don't care how many times F1 goes, they'll never be "classic" to me.)
Hockenheim: Long history, but the character of the new layout is too different from the old, so any "classic" designation went away with the long straights through the woods.
Hungaroring: They've been going there for a long time, but it has never been a good track.
Barcelona:

Tier 4: Too new to be considered classic
Everything else


I'd add Albert Park in Tier 2

#9 chhatra

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:42

I'd add Albert Park in Tier 2


Tier 2







Tier - Seriously what we're they thinking - Bahrain & Abu Dhabi

These two countries are perfect example of money more than sense.

#10 crooky369

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 17:52

Tier 2







Tier - Seriously what we're they thinking - Bahrain & Abu Dhabi

These two countries are perfect example of money more than sense.


Plus Malaysia, China, Singapore, Korea, India possibly Valencia and Hungary as well!

Add Magny-Cours and a few more in the core fan circuit areas and we'd have a great calendar.

#11 Youichi

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 18:13

I agree. But for arguments sake why is Silverstone tier 1 when it's also changed so much?


Go and stand at becketts and watch an F1 car in action, and you´ll know the answer.

#12 Frank Tuesday

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 19:34

I'd add Albert Park in Tier 2


I think it is too soon to consider it as a classic, but I'd be more inclined to put it into 3. To me, there is nothing special about it. It is just another track. It's no Valencia, but it's no Interlagos, either.


#13 Atreiu

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 19:42

Albert Park may not be a classic, but F1 in Australia is. I still love Adelaide, but Albert Park has grown on me.
One way or the other, Aussies should keep their GP.

Hopefully Bernie will someday get it before trying to drive the entire country bankrupt.

#14 jeze

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 19:57

Winners on Monaco, Monza, Spa, Silverstone and the year when the achievement was completed:

Juan Manuel Fangio (1956)
Jackie Stewart (1971)
Alain Prost (1983)
Ayrton Senna (1990)
Michael Schumacher (1998)
David Coulthard (2000)
Sebastian Vettel (2011)
Lewis Hamilton (2012)

Mansell never won Monaco, Kimi has never won Monza, Alonso has never won Spa... So have I missed one in the last 62 years? :confused:

Edited by jeze, 10 September 2012 - 20:19.


#15 Mandzipop

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:05

Winners on Monaco, Monza, Spa, Silverstone and the year when the achievement was completed:

Juan Manuel Fangio (1956)
Jackie Stewart (1971)
Alain Prost (1983)
Ayrton Senna (1990)
Michael Schumacher (1998)
Sebastian Vettel (2011)
Lewis Hamilton (2012)

Mansell never won Monaco, Kimi has never won Monza, Alonso has never won Spa... So have I missed one in the last 62 years? :confused:


I'd have thought it would have been more than that.

#16 jeze

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:16

I'd have thought it would have been more than that.


Hmm... but the issue was that Monaco was gone between 1951-1954, Spa was away for safety reasons in the 1970s, Silverstone ran basically every other year up until 1987, and even Monza was off the calendar in 1980...

So in the 1970's the achievement was impossible for example.

#17 Raziel

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:17

Tier 1: :clap:

Suzuka
Spa
Silverstone
Monza
Monaco

Tier 2: :love:

Interlagos
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Albert park

Tier 3: :)


Hungaroring
Circuit de Catalunya
Hockenheim (new layout)
Nürburgring

Tier 4: :well:


Sepang
Shanghai International Circuit
Marina Bay Street Circuit
Korean International Circuit
Buddh International Circuit
Yas Marina Circuit

Tier 5: :mad:


Bahrain International Circuit
Valencia Street Circuit



#18 gm914

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:19

I'm inclined to agree with Raziel. ^

#19 E.B.

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:23

I'd have thought it would have been more than that.


Or less - when did Stewart win at Spa?


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#20 gm914

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:44

Or less - when did Stewart win at Spa?

Good call. Only Belgian GP win from Stewart came in 1973, at Zolder.

#21 E.B.

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 20:52

However, I nominate another Scottish all time legend who has achieved it. How could he have been overlooked?

David Coulthard


#22 Smile17

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 22:33

Don't know what makes Silverstone so special for some. I think England can do much better.

#23 BigCHrome

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:05

Don't know what makes Silverstone so special for some. I think England can do much better.


The pre-2010 version was a nice tidy track. Fast and fun. Of course, Tilke ruined it's flow as you might except.

I think Sepang and Shanghai are definitely good tracks, they have much better races than Hockenheim or Interlagos (which is still a decent track).


#24 solochamp07

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:47

Go and stand at becketts and watch an F1 car in action, and you´ll know the answer.


Not literally please!

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#25 OS X

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:34

The pre-2010 version was a nice tidy track. Fast and fun. Of course, Tilke ruined it's flow as you might except.


I thought it was Populous who made the changes to the Silverstone track.

How Populous redesigned Silverstone


#26 Clatter

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 07:54

I thought it was Populous who made the changes to the Silverstone track.

How Populous redesigned Silverstone


But it's so easy to blame Tilke for everything.

#27 Jejking

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:02

My idea on the "Classic circuits among current F1 tracks

I'm inclined to agree, some of the tracks must be protected from being milked and extorted. They have been around for so long and still providing good races that they deserve protection. My list would be:

Tier 1:
Monaco - Racing in your living room still has a unique aspect as long as the drivers are able to push like crazy and not saving tyre bullshit like the 2012 edition
Monza - Temple of speed still. 345kph with such a small engine is a good feat
Spa - A challenge to many drivers after so many years, this circuit deserves it to be on the list
Suzuka - Having hosted many title deciders on a very technical track

Tier 2:
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve - Always being spectacular with a track challenging both driver, machine and tyres
Silverstone - due to recent circuit changes the natural flow of the track has been disturbed in my opinion, making it drop from T1 to T2
Interlagos - was hosting many exciting races counterclockwise and is always good for some action on this bumpy, high located track
Nürburgring - doesn't have the unique atmosphere of the Green Hell but hangs in there with solid races over the years

Tier 3
Hockenheim - dropped a spot also from T2 to T3 due to wrenching the original atmosphere of the course
Hungaroring - has some good races and is a real challenge but in normal circumstances the overtakeability is off the mark
Barcelona - having the same problem as the Hungarians but in my opinion suffers in the technical department, the recent changes didn't work out well at all.

Tier 4
Everything else which is too new or too Tilke to be considered higher up.

Edited by Jejking, 11 September 2012 - 08:12.


#28 akshay380

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 08:20

I honestly feel Indian track will move up this year from last tier. Agree last years race was kinda boring but with track getting rubber-ed in, it should be better this year imo.

Edited by akshay380, 11 September 2012 - 08:20.


#29 DampMongoose

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:13

Hmm... but the issue was that Monaco was gone between 1951-1954, Spa was away for safety reasons in the 1970s, Silverstone ran basically every other year up until 1987, and even Monza was off the calendar in 1980...

So in the 1970's the achievement was impossible for example.



My first thoughts were Brooks and Ascari to add to the list, but Aintree was the British GP for Brooks and Ascari didn't win at Monaco during his best season for the reason above... both have won on the real Ring though ;)

Lauda I'm guessing won all the GP's required but had Brands and Nivelle (or Zolder)?

#30 Spillage

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:27

My first thoughts were Brooks and Ascari to add to the list, but Aintree was the British GP for Brooks and Ascari didn't win at Monaco during his best season for the reason above... both have won on the real Ring though ;)

Lauda I'm guessing won all the GP's required but had Brands and Nivelle (or Zolder)?

Yup. Lauda won three times at Brands, but did win a non-championship race at Silverstone in 1975, if that counts. He won twice at Zolder but only raced at Spa once. he also missed the 1985 race there when he sprained his wrist in practise and had to sit out the race.

#31 Jimisgod

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:41

Winners on Monaco, Monza, Spa, Silverstone and the year when the achievement was completed:

Juan Manuel Fangio (1956)
Jackie Stewart (1971)
Alain Prost (1983)
Ayrton Senna (1990)
Michael Schumacher (1998)
David Coulthard (2000)
Sebastian Vettel (2011)
Lewis Hamilton (2012)

Mansell never won Monaco, Kimi has never won Monza, Alonso has never won Spa... So have I missed one in the last 62 years? :confused:


A bit surprised Clark never won Monaco. And he had 4 poles in the principality, but never any luck - I can't find a single problem free GP!

Looks like 2000 was his year :lol:

Edited by Jimisgod, 11 September 2012 - 09:43.


#32 goldenboy

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:43

My idea on the "Classic circuits among current F1 tracks

Tier 1: These tracks should be written into the Concorde Agreement. These should all be permanent fixtures as long as they keep up with safety standards. They have all changed over time, but they still retain their character.
Monaco
Monza
Spa
Silverstone

Tier 2:
Suzuka
Interlagos
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Tier 3: (I don't care how many times F1 goes, they'll never be "classic" to me.)
Hockenheim: Long history, but the character of the new layout is too different from the old, so any "classic" designation went away with the long straights through the woods.
Hungaroring: They've been going there for a long time, but it has never been a good track.
Barcelona:

Tier 4: Too new to be considered classic
Everything else

:up: agree 100%

#33 sock22

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 09:59

Although it's still too new to be considered classic at the moment, I would be ready to put China up into tier 3 sooner rather than later. The last four races there have been excellent, producing different and unlikely winners. If the appearance of Ma Qing Hua is the start of something (rather than a one off) then that could build the momentum for China staying on the calendar. I would certainly prefer that to having Barcelona here to stay.

#34 aditya-now

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 10:00

Winners on Monaco, Monza, Spa, Silverstone and the year when the achievement was completed:

Juan Manuel Fangio (1956)
Jackie Stewart (1971)
Alain Prost (1983)
Ayrton Senna (1990)
Michael Schumacher (1998)
David Coulthard (2000)
Sebastian Vettel (2011)
Lewis Hamilton (2012)

Mansell never won Monaco, Kimi has never won Monza, Alonso has never won Spa... So have I missed one in the last 62 years? :confused:


Nice research, Jeze! Wonder when Alonso will win Spa - this year he was basically robbed of any chance.... but so was Jimmy Clark each time in Monaco.

So let's put the list straight then:


Juan Manuel Fangio (1956)
Alain Prost (1983)
Ayrton Senna (1990)
Michael Schumacher (1998)
David Coulthard (2000)
Sebastian Vettel (2011)
Lewis Hamilton (2012)

A select few, and amazingly DC among them - he has achieved more than many other drivers, in fact he seemed to specialize on winning on classic tracks!



Now concerning the tracks:



Tier 1:

Spa
Silverstone
Monza
Monaco


Tier 2:

Interlagos
Circuit Gilles Villeneuve
Suzuka



Tier 3:


Albert park
Circuit de Catalunya
Hockenheim (new layout)
Nürburgring
Marina Bay Street Circuit (a new classic, not least because it's the first night race)



Tier 4:


Sepang
Hungaroring
Shanghai International Circuit
Buddh International Circuit
Yas Marina Circuit



Tier 5:


Bahrain International Circuit
Valencia Street Circuit
Korean International Circuit


#35 DampMongoose

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 11:13

Although it pains me to say it, I can't rate Silverstone as a classic anymore, the totally new layout has nothing of the flow of the old circuit, it strikes me that although it's called Silverstone it is no more the same circuit as Zandvoort or the A1 Ring are to their original circuits, even Interlagos is the shadow of it's proper design... but I shudder to think what I'll harp on to my kids about in 10-20 years time having seen some of the best circuits disappear from the calendar since the early 80's, and also what further damage will be done to the few remaing circuits with any character remaining...

As for classics as they stand on the remaing circuits we still have (and for reasons above),

Monza
Monaco
and Spa ((just) any more tinkering and it will go with Silverstone)

Tier 2

Silverstone
Interlagos
Suzuka
JV

Tier 3 (Only better than the rest)

Hockenheim (just)
Nurburgring (just)
Albert Park (Adelaide was far superior)
Barcelona

Tier 4 (Desert tracks/Tracks with no fans, Not around long enough or around for too long for no reason)

Budapest in particular
Everywhere else

Edited by DampMongoose, 11 September 2012 - 11:14.


#36 E.B.

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:15

A bit surprised Clark never won Monaco. And he had 4 poles in the principality, but never any luck - I can't find a single problem free GP!


Remember that Monaco sometimes clashed with the Indy 500, and given the difference in purses it's no surprise which one took priority.



#37 expert

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 12:21

Winners on Monaco, Monza, Spa, Silverstone and the year when the achievement was completed:

Juan Manuel Fangio (1956)
Jackie Stewart (1971)
Alain Prost (1983)
Ayrton Senna (1990)
Michael Schumacher (1998)
David Coulthard (2000)
Sebastian Vettel (2011)
Lewis Hamilton (2012)

Mansell never won Monaco, Kimi has never won Monza, Alonso has never won Spa... So have I missed one in the last 62 years? :confused:


Which of these things is not like the other?


But nah, great effort by DC there. :cool:

#38 Snic

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 16:32

Fangio and Stewart also both won at the Nordschleife which was the ultimate Classic race, and both won in spectacular fashion.

I would add Suzuka to the top tier, imo it's the most difficult driving circuit left on the calender today and has had enough action drama and championship deciders to make it a classic.

From that list that leaves

Fangio
Stewart
Senna,
Schumacher,
Vettel

+ there's no DC on this list :)

Edited by Snic, 11 September 2012 - 16:32.


#39 gm914

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 16:38

Fangio and Stewart also both won at the Nordschleife which was the ultimate Classic race, and both won in spectacular fashion.


Damn right. 1968 German GP, at a soaking wet Nordschleife, Stewart beat the 2nd place Graham Hill by an astounding 5min 02sec!
No Spa victory though.

Edited by gm914, 11 September 2012 - 16:40.


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#40 Atreiu

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 16:45

Just wondering, who won Zandvoort, Brands and Osterreichring? They have been gone for a while but sure deserve some mention.

#41 Victor_RO

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 17:18

Just wondering, who won Zandvoort, Brands and Osterreichring? They have been gone for a while but sure deserve some mention.


I can think of one person off the top of my head: Niki Lauda.

EDIT: Alan Jones also won in F1 at all three tracks.

#42 Snic

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 18:23

Damn right. 1968 German GP, at a soaking wet Nordschleife, Stewart beat the 2nd place Graham Hill by an astounding 5min 02sec!
No Spa victory though.


Good call!