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Vettel off to Ferrari in 2014?


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Poll: Vettel off to Ferrari in 2014? (518 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think Vettel is heading to Ferrari in 2014?

  1. Yes, he's going (162 votes [31.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.33%

  2. No, he's staying (196 votes [37.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.91%

  3. Not enough information to form an opinion either way (159 votes [30.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.75%

If he did move to Ferrar would it be the right choice?

  1. Yes (175 votes [33.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.85%

  2. No (259 votes [50.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.10%

  3. I don't have enough information to form an opinion either way (83 votes [16.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.05%

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#1 Kvothe

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:15

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/102478
Luca di Montezemolo has come out and said that next season would still be 'too early' for Perez to drive for Ferrari.
What's interesting is that he instead chose to highlight Sebastian Vettel's name when asked who he would like to see alongside Alonso:

"I think that Vettel is more or less in the condition like when Michael was in Benetton," he added.
"He's younger, he's a very good driver and he's making a very good experience so in theory, if you have to ask me a name, I could tell you his name."


This is particularly significant when you consider that Vettel is rumoured to have already signed a pre-contractual agreement to join Ferrari for 2014, which if true, would be a major obstacle in signing Perez particularly because Fernando Alonso is also contracted until 2016, and it is unlikely that both parties would like Perez to sign for just one year

The Team Principal of Ferrar Stephano Domenicalli has already implicitly giving his blessing to such a move:
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/18524133

Domenicali said: "I think they are both intelligent guys and they could easily co-exist together."

Which is in complete contrast to his opinion of Hamilton:
http://www.jamesalle...ng-for-ferrari/

On Lewis Hamilton, Domenicali says that he still sticks to his view, a common one among experienced people in F1, that Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel are the three standout drivers at the moment, and nothing Hamilton has done would put him off signing him if the circumstances were right. But he says that he cannot see a place for Hamilton at Maranello,
“I am pleased he said ‘never say never’ on the subject of Ferrari, in fact it is logical that everyone aspires to come to Maranello sooner or later, given what we represent in the history of this sport.
“Having said that, I don’t think the question will arise, neither in the short nor in the long term, ” said the Ferrari boss.


Vettel of course has come out and denied such signing anything with Ferrari
http://www.independe...al-7804421.html

Speaking to German newspaper Bild, Vettel said: "I know nothing about it. I've never signed anything."


However:

according to Red Bull advisor Helmut Marko, the right-hand man to owner Dietrich Mateschitz, Vettel has an opportunity to leave under the right conditions.
Marko told Bild: "2013 is fixed for us. For 2014 there is a performance-related clause in his contract - for him and for the team.
"It depends on the rankings in next year's world championships.
"If Vettel and Red Bull slip in the drivers' or constructors' championship, he could go."


In light of Marko's remarks there is no doubt that this season Red Bull have been affected by the rule changes implemented for the 2012 season. It has been apparent through qualification times that rather than the rest of the field catching them up, they instead have lost a lot of performance (confirmed by Newey) through the banning of the exhaust blown diffuser and flexible front wing. With Vettel third in the WDC, Red Bull being chased down by McLaren in the constructors, a car that hasn't looked truly capable of winning in the last 4 races, and the fact that with very few rule changes the cars are unlikely to change much between now and next season it's highly likely that he could be persuaded to go to Ferrari, especially if he feels that Newey is unable to provide him with the same car advantage he enjoyed previously.

It might also be very beneficial for his reputation. A lot of Vettel fans are confident in their belief of how good a driver Seb is. Outside of that however there is still some speculation on how good he really is he's only competitive team mate having been Mark Webber, a driver who shows occasional brilliance but not on a consistent basis. Going up against Alonso widely regarded as one of the best drivers in the world would allow us to benchmark not only how good Vettel is (of course not providing a definitive answer), but also give a better idea of how good Alonso is, whose only benchmark currently is the woefully under performing Felipe, and his maturity when dealing with a competitive team mate.

Of course right or wrong with both Alonso's and Ferrari's history, talk of another driver coming to Ferrari raises issues of equal treatment and whether this would be granted to Vettel. Traditionally Ferrar has had a number 1 and number 2 driver structure and though they have been careful to stress that both drivers would have an equal opportunity If Vettel were to start beating Alonso, how would the latter, known for being political, but adored by both the team and the tifosi, react? Of course in this situation one can draw a parallel with the 2007-2008 years when both Ferrari drivers were evenly matched and that number 1 status was only given to the one that was ahead after a certain point and both drivers were beneficiaries of this. One can also state that in their three years of competing Massa has never really been in contention for the WDC and so the number 1 policy conferred on Alonso after Germany 2010 and in 2012 is merely a continuation of their post 2006 driver policy which Vettel too would be a beneficiary of should he beat Alonso on a consistent basis.

There are of course many pros and cons to Vettel leaving Red Bull to join to Ferrari, what do you think?

Edited by Kvothe, 12 September 2012 - 15:25.


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#2 Watkins74

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:22

If a picture is worth a thousand words that opening post was like two and a half pictures.

#3 Mackey

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:23

I don´t think Alonso and Vettel get along very well (ie Vettel pushing Alonso off track in Monza). If I was Ferrari i´d wait until Fernando retires to sign Vettel.

#4 jeze

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:27

I don´t think Alonso and Vettel get along very well (ie Vettel pushing Alonso off track in Monza). If I was Ferrari i´d wait until Fernando retires to sign Vettel.


Or Ferrari take a chance hoping this blow will hurt Red Bull and benefit them? Either way it goes they'll have Alonso as driver so it's no panic, it's a bit of a luxury being able to wait on Vettel to be able to join in 2014 or 2015.

Like I've always said, it's not a question of if Sebastian Vettel will drive for Ferrari - but when he'll do it.

#5 RedOne

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:27

I think it's a cool story bro but needs more dragons n sh*t and some Michael Bay explosions.

But seriously I would see no problem in that happening, could be a fascinating battle, not sure about some of his fans who don't like Ferrari.

Edited by RedOne, 12 September 2012 - 15:31.


#6 sailor

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:32

Quite a strange one from Ferrari.

They dont like Perez despite him being from their own academy - wonder whats going on in their heads.

And Perez must be wondering himself as to what more can he do ? as do I. On current form - he is the best young driver and a potential multi WDC.

Also the prefernce of Vettel over Lewis is an odd one - on abilities both look equal but crucially Lewis is a proven match against Alonso which Vettel is NOT.

Why prefer Vettel over Hamilton even when the latter is more easily available.

Definitely looks like Alonso (despite what he says) doesnt want Lewis or even Perez in.

Perhaps he is ok with Seb because he thinks he can manage against him.

All in all - quite strange


#7 Kvothe

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:33

Or Ferrari take a chance hoping this blow will hurt Red Bull and benefit them? Either way it goes they'll have Alonso as driver so it's no panic, it's a bit of a luxury being able to wait on Vettel to be able to join in 2014 or 2015.

Like I've always said, it's not a question of if Sebastian Vettel will drive for Ferrari - but when he'll do it.


I think Vettel moving to Ferrari would definitely be a blow to Red Bull, not only because they lose their star driver, but also because he's also likely to have insider knowledge of their operations and technical tricks that have served them so well over the past few years.

I think if Vettel left to go to Ferrari while Alonso was still there my respect for him would increase tenfold.


I think it's a cool story bro but needs more dragons sh*t and some Michael Bay explosions.

But seriously I would see no problem in that happening, could be a fascinating battle, not sure about some of his fans who don't like Ferrari.


offtopic but related:
http://www.youtube.c...player_embedded

#8 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:36

Alonso and Vettel in the same team?!?

Posted Image

I imagine that if Alonso doesn't win the title this year and the barren run continues in 2013, then we could very well see Vettel alongside Alonso in a Ferrari in 2014.

#9 keiichi

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:48

One reasonable guess would be to pair Alonso and Vettel in 2014 and if Alonso leaves in 2016 they might pair Vettel with Perez. Wonder where Perez would be until then...Just a wild guess anyway.

#10 OSX

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:48

They dont like Perez despite him being from their own academy - wonder whats going on in their heads.

Maybe Perez is not willing to go and play second fiddle to Alonso, which he would have to do, and this has annoyed di Montezemolo.

Why prefer Vettel over Hamilton even when the latter is more easily available.

Because Alonso would never accept Hamilton as his teammate again.

#11 Sakae

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:49

Voted: Yes and Yes
My wish: convince him to join Mercedes as a leading driver.

#12 loki0420

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 15:57

i don't think he will and i don't think its the right thing to do

#13 BigCHrome

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 16:06

I think he will go but I don't think it's the right decision. Red Bull are better.

#14 nemtudom

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 16:21

I'm kind of sure Vettel will end up in a Ferrari one day, but I've always thought 2014 would be too early for this.
However, given the recent comments from Ferrari, I'd guess they'll retain Massa for 2013 because they only need to fill a one year gap before Vettel's arrival. They don't seem to be in serious discussions with anybody for 2013, they basically rule out signing Perez, who would be the most logical option (OK, I know Montezemolo's comments don't mean everything and Perez could still be signed, but they've said similar things repeatedly). I think there's an ever growing chance that they'll let Massa stay, especially as he's started to score some points lately. But the only logical explanation I see for this (retaining an underperforming Massa) is that they are waiting for someone to arrive in 2014. And that someone might well be Vettel.

I don't think Montezemolo would have a problem signing Vettel as team mate to Alonso. Alonso may have a say in the team's issues, but I don't think he's powerful enough to stop his boss hiring a star driver. Allegedly Montezemolo wanted to sign Häkkinen to race alongside Schumacher, which was opposed by both MS and Todt. Alonso doesn't have someone like Todt in the team now. I think Montezemolo wants to sign a star driver, because someone like Massa (especially in the first half of the season) is bringing down the team's reputation and the results are not good enough either. I won't be too surprised if a Vettel-Ferrari switch happens in 2014, but who knows...

#15 CF22

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 16:43

I don't know why people say that if Alonso does not win another tittle soon Ferrari will sack him and vice-versa. If this does happen, and I highly doubt Ferrari is displeased with Fernando, Vettel will not do any better. Now Vettel alongside Alonso, every time this was mentioned I thought this was a great idea, but after Monza and Vettel's comments not any more.

About Perez, Ferrari have all the information to make a sound decision and they have decided at this moment he is not the best option for any reason, they have the data, we don't. One thing is sure, Massa has to go.

#16 RedOne

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 16:43

Quite a strange one from Ferrari.

They dont like Perez despite him being from their own academy - wonder whats going on in their heads.

And Perez must be wondering himself as to what more can he do ? as do I. On current form - he is the best young driver and a potential multi WDC.

Also the prefernce of Vettel over Lewis is an odd one - on abilities both look equal but crucially Lewis is a proven match against Alonso which Vettel is NOT.

Why prefer Vettel over Hamilton even when the latter is more easily available.

Definitely looks like Alonso (despite what he says) doesnt want Lewis or even Perez in.

Perhaps he is ok with Seb because he thinks he can manage against him.

All in all - quite strange


Maybe if you read what the Ferrari president said about Vettel you wouldn't be so confused. I think it's obvious to most which pair Ferrari would have a better time managing. Alonso/Vettel combo would fit better, they are both very consistent drivers who rarely get into tangles with other drivers. And both back to back double world champions which would easily be the strongest pairing in F1 if it happens. The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Why has Lewis even come into this? He's going to Merc isn't he?

Edited by RedOne, 12 September 2012 - 16:46.


#17 Alarcon

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 17:13

Before Seb arrives to Ferrari Alonso will fly away. He was so afraid when Lewis beat him that inmediatly joined again Briatore.

The only time he faced a fast team mate he proved he isn´t able to battle with a competitive teammate.

He is a superb in terms of driving being number 1 but when he has the pressure on the next box he cracks. Lewis (2011 and 2012) and Seb (2010 and 2012) proved they can support the pressure with fasts teammates. Then Alonso will leave the team before a top driver signs on Ferrari.



#18 Smile17

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 17:13

All I know is that Luca di Montezemolo would never show his cards. So I don't give much value to his words.

Most teams would prefer Vettel over Hamilton btw. Choosing Hamilton is taking quite a leap of faith. He is not the best political player, for example.

Edited by Smile17, 12 September 2012 - 17:15.


#19 Alarcon

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 17:14

Maybe if you read what the Ferrari president said about Vettel you wouldn't be so confused. I think it's obvious to most which pair Ferrari would have a better time managing. Alonso/Vettel combo would fit better, they are both very consistent drivers who rarely get into tangles with other drivers. And both back to back double world champions which would easily be the strongest pairing in F1 if it happens. The more I think about it the more it makes sense.

Why has Lewis even come into this? He's going to Merc isn't he?



Imo the best combo would fit better and one of the best combo in F1 history in terms of speed and skill would be Vettel and Hamilton.

I wish one day... maybe both at Mercedes? ;)

Edited by Alarcon, 12 September 2012 - 17:18.


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#20 RedOne

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 17:19

Before Seb arrives to Ferrari Alonso will fly away. He was so afraid when Lewis beat him that inmediatly joined again Briatore.

The only time he faced a fast team mate he proved he isn´t able to battle with a competitive teammate.

He is a superb in terms of driving being number 1 but when he has the pressure on the next box he cracks. Lewis (2011 and 2012) and Seb (2010 and 2012) proved they can support the pressure with fasts teammates. Then Alonso will leave the team before a top driver signs on Ferrari.


I have I no idea what you are talking about.

#21 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 17:23

if Montezelmolo says Perez is too inexperienced for a Ferrari drive, that would also rule out any driver with less than 2 year F1 experience like Hulkenberg or diRest etc.

so what are the remaining options for them?

Massa - free agent
Schumacher - free agent
Raikkonen - valid 2013 contract with Lotus?
Kovalainen - free agent

it'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

#22 Jimisgod

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 17:59

Raikkonen - valid 2013 contract with Lotus?


Because he totally left Ferrari on good terms :lol: they paid out his contract for 2 years, there is a chance he could go back to McLaren, but Alonso is as likely to go to McLaren as Kimi is to be back in Maranello.

#23 jeze

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:03

My concern about Pérez is that he's worse than Kobayashi in qualifying - and I don't really rate Kamui as a potential champion at any stretch of imagination. He is a Sato that drives just as crazy but somehow escapes trouble for the most part because he's got a better racing brain. The fact that Checo can't outperform Kamui in qualifying is probably the real reason that Ferrari aren't so keen right now.

#24 Sakae

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:04

if Montezelmolo says Perez is too inexperienced for a Ferrari drive, that would also rule out any driver with less than 2 year F1 experience like Hulkenberg or diRest etc.

so what are the remaining options for them?

Massa - free agent
Schumacher - free agent
Raikkonen - valid 2013 contract with Lotus?
Kovalainen - free agent

it'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

Is Schumacher a free agent in 2013?

#25 Jimisgod

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:14

My concern about Pérez is that he's worse than Kobayashi in qualifying - and I don't really rate Kamui as a potential champion at any stretch of imagination. He is a Sato that drives just as crazy but somehow escapes trouble for the most part because he's got a better racing brain. The fact that Checo can't outperform Kamui in qualifying is probably the real reason that Ferrari aren't so keen right now.


So they're holding on to Massa :rotfl: I guess they must never want to win another WCC again.

In all honesty you have Rosberg and Heikki, race winners, Perez, a podium scorer, and wild cards Hulkenberg, Sutil or even Jamie A. who could outperform Massa even if given a single season shot while Ferrari scouts a real match for Alonso.

Massa is the Ferrari make-up wing, in the sense his only job is to make Alonso look better.

Massa ought to be running around with Rubens in Indycar this time next year. Rubens has even won more recently than Felipe. :lol:

Edited by Jimisgod, 12 September 2012 - 18:16.


#26 camberley

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:16

Quite a strange one from Ferrari.

They dont like Perez despite him being from their own academy - wonder whats going on in their heads.

And Perez must be wondering himself as to what more can he do ? as do I. On current form - he is the best young driver and a potential multi WDC.

Also the prefernce of Vettel over Lewis is an odd one - on abilities both look equal but crucially Lewis is a proven match against Alonso which Vettel is NOT.

Why prefer Vettel over Hamilton even when the latter is more easily available.

Definitely looks like Alonso (despite what he says) doesnt want Lewis or even Perez in.

Perhaps he is ok with Seb because he thinks he can manage against him.

All in all - quite strange


Nothing strange imo. Makes perfect sense

Perez would want a long term contract and they are looking to Vettel from 2014 onwards so there is no real vacancy. i bet they would just stick with Massa for 1 more year. Perez would not be interested in a 1 year contract. he is better off long term at Sauber compared to a 1 year stint at Ferrari

Vettel v/s hamilton. Vettel is clearly much much better. Hamilton = immature, prima donna, not focused, and over and above a choker that crumbles under pressure when fighting for thw WDC - hamilton will only cause headaches as he has done at maclaren

Vettel on the other hand is young, far better than Hamilton - performs well under pressure - a proven 2x WDC. Plus they would get him away from Red Bull weakening them.

Edited by camberley, 12 September 2012 - 18:17.


#27 SCUDmissile

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:24

Vettel and Alonso at Ferrari. YES PLEASE

Ferrari will make their no. 1 earn their spot, or just let them go at it if the car is very good.
Alonso has welcomed Vettel.


On Perez, I have a sneaky feeling that if he were to go to Ferrari right now, he would get shown up like Massa a little.
If the roles were reversed, I think we would be praising Massa for doing a great job at Sauber, and Perez might just be similar to Grosjean.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 12 September 2012 - 18:24.


#28 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:31

Didn't Vettel sign a lengthy contract extension just last year, on the back of Newey signing for multiple years? I think his contract with Red Bull runs at least till the end of 2014. I don't understand this talk of Vettel going to Ferrari in 2014 and Perez being needed only for one year.

Vettel made his intentions very clear recently on what he thinks of the present set-up of Ferrari around Alonso. Going to Ferrari wasn't one of them.

Edited by SpaMaster, 12 September 2012 - 18:53.


#29 camberley

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:33

Didn't Perez sign a lengthy contract extension just last year, on the back of Newey signing for multiple years? I think his contract with Red Bull runs at least till the end of 2014. I don't understand this talk of Vettel going to Ferrari in 2014 and Perez being needed only for one year.

Vettel made his intentions very clear recently on what he thinks of the present set-up of Ferrari around Alonso. Going to Ferrari wasn't one of them.


I guess you meant Vettel , not Perez.

Vettel has a contract until 2014 but he can get out early if certain performance criteria are not met

#30 Sakae

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 18:51

I don´t think Alonso and Vettel get along very well (ie Vettel pushing Alonso off track in Monza). If I was Ferrari i´d wait until Fernando retires to sign Vettel.

I think Monza might have triggered little strain in their relationship.

#31 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 19:02

Yes, I meant Vettel, edited it now. Performance criteria - going by the recent past Alonso should be the one that should have got a get-out clause so that he can join Red Bull ;)

#32 loki0420

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 19:03

and by the way i'm not sure how Ferrari can convince Vettel to join them since they don't pay much like with Schumacher and it was a long time since they were a class of the field. All they are offering recently is their heritage that they coming up with quite a lot actually.

#33 ayali

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 19:11

It merely shows how highly Seb Vettel is valued in the paddock
Long term deal with Red Bull, Montezemolo openly comparing him to Schumacher and naming him for a Ferrari seat
Last year Ross Brawn's complimentary words

the kid has a choice of top teams to drive for
So no hurry we'll see

#34 RealRacing

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 19:45

Vettel made his intentions very clear recently on what he thinks of the present set-up of Ferrari around Alonso. Going to Ferrari wasn't one of them.


This. There are two possible outcomes of the Vettel at Ferrari utopia if he's initially granted equal status: he beats Alonso and we have a replay of McLaren 2007 or Alonso beats him at the beginning, Ferrari assign driver status early and Vettel is screwed, along with the team's WCC hopes. Either of these scenarios is not what Ferrari or Vettel are looking for so no, I don't see it. Ferrari can fantasize as much as they want about having two of the top drivers in F1 driving for them and continuing with their policy, but the fact is that none of the top drivers would be willing to adhere to it. Ferrari have made it clear that they function like that, which gives them a clear advantage when building a team around one driver and maximizing WDC probabilities. However, the flipside is, precisely, that they are not that attractive for another top driver or even an up and coming talent.


#35 Mandzipop

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:15

All depends on how Domenicali can manage the situation.

When he took over, the driver policy was that it was equal status until one driver realistically fell out of contention for the WDC. If Felip had only been 10 behind Alonso at Monza, would they have been justified to allow the pass? I don't think they would have done it.

If Seb were there in 2014, I think it would be too close for them to just start backing one driver halfway through the season.

Also the difference is that currently Seb is a double WDC. He ain't a rookie that Alonso thinks will be a pushover.

Another consideration is that Alonso will be 33 in 2014. He will be getting closer to the latter end of his career (unless he does a Michael). A drivers peak is usually between ages 28-33. Seb would only be 26 when he joined (if Seb does go there).

Money-wise, he'd probably earn a lot more than he oes now. I think even Massa is higher paid than Seb.

Another point would be on what has been discussed as a potential biggie in the Hamilton to Merc thread. Ferrari are an engine manufacturer. It could give them a bit of an advantage as they would know the type of package they are working with prior to the customer teams. Although as James Allen has pointed out that Red Bull are effectively the Renault works team now.

I'm also sure that Seb is aware that people say he is unproven until he has gone up against either Alonso or Hamilton. Luca might be able to persuade Seb that it would shut the nay sayers up if he beat Alonso.

Being a Seb fan and a Ferrari fan, I would be in 7th heaven if Seb joined Ferrari. :D

#36 bourbon

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:34

Quite a strange one from Ferrari.

They dont like Perez despite him being from their own academy - wonder whats going on in their heads.

And Perez must be wondering himself as to what more can he do ? as do I. On current form - he is the best young driver and a potential multi WDC.

Also the prefernce of Vettel over Lewis is an odd one - on abilities both look equal but crucially Lewis is a proven match against Alonso which Vettel is NOT.

Why prefer Vettel over Hamilton even when the latter is more easily available.

Definitely looks like Alonso (despite what he says) doesnt want Lewis or even Perez in.

Perhaps he is ok with Seb because he thinks he can manage against him.

All in all - quite strange


Alonso does not want either of them as teammates, nor Kimi. Out of the question. So none of them will go to Ferrari while Alonso is there. Monte said as much in a past interview, not in those words, but to the effect of the teammates having to get along for the sake of "Ferrarrrrrrri". However, he wants Vettel - he seems to have some Michael II dream going on. It is possible, so he'll prolly go.

I am 10000% anti-Ferrari - do not like the team at all. But it was the same when Kimi went, you just cheer on the driver under protest of the team :lol:. Basically you just suck it up while they are there. So I'd cheer Seb if he went or Perez if he went and once more wonder how my favs always end up there. Always.

#37 rijole1

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:34

Voted

Not enough information to form an opinion either way

and

No

Alonso is not going to give up his no 1 status, not ever and has told he's going to use Ferrari as his retirement home :p
- so what's the point for Vettel going there?

Red Bull is a great car. He can move to Mercedes if he wants to try something else.
Or McLaren. Of course - McLaren fans doesn't seem to like Vettel or Vettel's finger so much - that can be a problem...

#38 jeze

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:38

This. There are two possible outcomes of the Vettel at Ferrari utopia if he's initially granted equal status: he beats Alonso and we have a replay of McLaren 2007 or Alonso beats him at the beginning, Ferrari assign driver status early and Vettel is screwed, along with the team's WCC hopes. Either of these scenarios is not what Ferrari or Vettel are looking for so no, I don't see it. Ferrari can fantasize as much as they want about having two of the top drivers in F1 driving for them and continuing with their policy, but the fact is that none of the top drivers would be willing to adhere to it. Ferrari have made it clear that they function like that, which gives them a clear advantage when building a team around one driver and maximizing WDC probabilities. However, the flipside is, precisely, that they are not that attractive for another top driver or even an up and coming talent.


You have to remember this: Before the 2010 season, Massa's reputation was sky-high. Low fuel and durable tyres suited him to the core and he beat Kimi Räikkönen for points over 2.5 years and could easily have won the 2008 title and also ran the top three very close in 2007 where only a few red-mist moments cost him a shot at winning that year. When Alonso went there, Massa was still highly-paid and well respected as a top driver and Kimi-matcher. He was the driver that Ferrari hoped could deliver during the latter stages of the 2008 season, which is arguably the hottest seat media-wise in Formula 1.

When Ferrari signed Alonso it was to get someone they thought would be better than Kimi, in other words a driver they hoped (ie not 100 % sure) would be able to take the mantle from Massa if they were lucky. If he hadn't then everyone would've known that Massa was world class and that the car itself had been poor in 2009. Now we probably know that if Massa could be 5th in the championship prior to his accident in 2009, Alonso could probably have challenged for the top three positions that year. But make no mistake, Alonso-Massa as a partnership was not in any sense deemed less exciting than Hamilton-Button and probably even more exciting than Vettel-Webber prior to the 2010 season. Alonso was hired as an equal #1 but has then earned that status, saving Stefano's job in the process. A signing of Vettel to Ferrari would simply imply that the team returned to the 2007-2010 policy of two drivers going into the season expecting to challenge for the title. And hell even this year, Massa has been within a tenth in Q2 of Alonso's time and set the fastest Q2 time of all drivers at Monaco - before choking in Q3. Massa has a tremendous lap time in him that most drivers can only dream about sometimes, but his racecraft and high-fuel ability + tyre preservation is a disgrace. He essentially drives like I'd drive a car in Grand Prix 4.

Edited by jeze, 12 September 2012 - 20:43.


#39 joshb

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:40

All depends on how Domenicali can manage the situation.

When he took over, the driver policy was that it was equal status until one driver realistically fell out of contention for the WDC. If Felip had only been 10 behind Alonso at Monza, would they have been justified to allow the pass? I don't think they would have done it.

If Seb were there in 2014, I think it would be too close for them to just start backing one driver halfway through the season.

Also the difference is that currently Seb is a double WDC. He ain't a rookie that Alonso thinks will be a pushover.

Another consideration is that Alonso will be 33 in 2014. He will be getting closer to the latter end of his career (unless he does a Michael). A drivers peak is usually between ages 28-33. Seb would only be 26 when he joined (if Seb does go there).

Money-wise, he'd probably earn a lot more than he oes now. I think even Massa is higher paid than Seb.

Another point would be on what has been discussed as a potential biggie in the Hamilton to Merc thread. Ferrari are an engine manufacturer. It could give them a bit of an advantage as they would know the type of package they are working with prior to the customer teams. Although as James Allen has pointed out that Red Bull are effectively the Renault works team now.

I'm also sure that Seb is aware that people say he is unproven until he has gone up against either Alonso or Hamilton. Luca might be able to persuade Seb that it would shut the nay sayers up if he beat Alonso.

Being a Seb fan and a Ferrari fan, I would be in 7th heaven if Seb joined Ferrari. :D


I doubt Luca will say to him "Hey Seb, go up against Alonso, it'll shut up your doubters". He doesn't need to prove he can go toe to toe with them, why not twist it to say we can't prove Alo/Ham until they go toe to toe with Vettel? We just accept there will always be a group who will never be convinced.
I'd love to see Seb at Ferrari (or maybe Merc) but he's won everything there is to win, he doesn't need to prove anything, he's won in good cars, less good cars, wet, dry, fast tracks, slow tracks, all against many other drivers on the grid who are top 50 of all time (6 or 7 drivers actually).


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#40 jeze

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:41

Alonso does not want either of them as teammates, nor Kimi. Out of the question. So none of them will go to Ferrari while Alonso is there. Monte said as much in a past interview, not in those words, but to the effect of the teammates having to get along for the sake of "Ferrarrrrrrri". However, he wants Vettel - he seems to have some Michael II dream going on. It is possible, so he'll prolly go.

I am 10000% anti-Ferrari - do not like the team at all. But it was the same when Kimi went, you just cheer on the driver under protest of the team :lol: . Basically you just suck it up while they are there. So I'd cheer Seb if he went or Perez if he went and once more wonder how my favs always end up there. Always.


Now watch Vettel drive for Ferrari until his retirement in 2024 and Bourbon ending up a hardcore tifoso ;)

#41 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:45

This "rumour" continues to make no sense.

Is it reasonable to speculate that Vettel might leave RB if they begin fading? Sure, that's plausible.

But go to Ferrari, WHILE Alonso is there? How would that work exactly? How would Ferrari guarantee Vettel number one status? The only way is if Ferrari guarantee to Vettel that Alonso will be leaving soon and then it's his team. But why would Alonso retire any time soon?

And Alonso is right to not want the team to have another no1 driver. All this about equal status is fan fantasy and doesn't work. The simple truth is that if you are not focusing on only one driver then you are not optimising your car to extract 100% out of it simply because you have to make development compromises. Having two no1's is a myth. You more like have to 1,5's instead of a no1 and a no2.

Let alone all the potential drama and conflict that will inevitably be created.

#42 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:47

@Sakae

I was convinced that Mercedes' dream was to eventually recruit Vettel and create a German "superteam" but that doesn't look like it's going to happen.

#43 jeze

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:49

This "rumour" continues to make no sense.

Is it reasonable to speculate that Vettel might leave RB if they begin fading? Sure, that's plausible.

But go to Ferrari, WHILE Alonso is there? How would that work exactly? How would Ferrari guarantee Vettel number one status? The only way is if Ferrari guarantee to Vettel that Alonso will be leaving soon and then it's his team. But why would Alonso retire any time soon?

And Alonso is right to not want the team to have another no1 driver. All this about equal status is fan fantasy and doesn't work. The simple truth is that if you are not focusing on only one driver then you are not optimising your car to extract 100% out of it simply because you have to make development compromises. Having two no1's is a myth. You more like have to 1,5's instead of a no1 and a no2.

Let alone all the potential drama and conflict that will inevitably be created.


Read my post about the Alonso vs Massa situation in late 2009 and it'll start to make more sense. Massa was never intended as a #2 and was ruthlessly robbed of a championship he arguably deserved. If Alonso accepted coming to Ferrari to face a driver that beat him on multiple occasions when driving competitive cars in 2007... don't you think that Vettel would accept that challenge? As long as Vettel was given reassurances about equal treatment until he or Fernando was mathematically out of the championship he'd sign if it gave him a pay rise. I can't see Red Bull being willing to raise Vettel's salary too much, since Newey takes up a big portion of their salary budget and Red Bull itself as a company paying for the team to go round, rather than Philip Morris and Santander paying the way for many of Ferrari's external bills.

#44 MatParker116

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:55

Luca has told Sky Sports he wants Vettel.

#45 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:56

Sorry btw, I meant to say " How would Ferrari guarantee Vettel equal treatment" not no1 status :)

Personally I don't see this happening. Yes it would be fun and all but it's a pipe dream. In reality having two top drivers doesn't work.

For starters, because the RESOURCES to support two top drivers don't exist within one team.

Edited by EvanRainer, 12 September 2012 - 20:57.


#46 scheivlak

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:59

Luca has told Sky Sports he wants Vettel.

We know that for quite some time  ;)

It's not about what Luca wants, it's what about Seb wants.

#47 MatParker116

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 20:59

Sorry btw, I meant to say " How would Ferrari guarantee Vettel equal treatment" not no1 status :)

Personally I don't see this happening. Yes it would be fun and all but it's a pipe dream. In reality having two top drivers doesn't work.

For starters, because the RESOURCES to support two top drivers don't exist within one team.


It's kind of worked at Mclaren

#48 jeze

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 21:00

Sorry btw, I meant to say " How would Ferrari guarantee Vettel equal treatment" not no1 status :)

Personally I don't see this happening. Yes it would be fun and all but it's a pipe dream. In reality having two top drivers doesn't work.

For starters, because the RESOURCES to support two top drivers don't exist within one team.


Ferrari operated Räikkönen and Massa for the 2007 and 2008 seasons and they kept it civil in spite of fighting for the world title. Vettel and Webber don't like each other but they respect the other guy. Alonso and Vettel seem to be bigger egos though, which would be a concern, but with the pay checks the both would get they'd have reason to behave. Also Alonso is well in his 30's now. Different man compared to who he was in 2007.

#49 EvanRainer

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 21:01

It's kind of worked at Mclaren


Really? When? The Senna-Prost disaster? The Alonso-Hamilton Disaster? The current drama?

#50 bourbon

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 21:02

Now watch Vettel drive for Ferrari until his retirement in 2024 and Bourbon ending up a hardcore tifoso ;)


:lol: