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Vettel off to Ferrari in 2014?


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Poll: Vettel off to Ferrari in 2014? (518 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think Vettel is heading to Ferrari in 2014?

  1. Yes, he's going (162 votes [31.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 31.33%

  2. No, he's staying (196 votes [37.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.91%

  3. Not enough information to form an opinion either way (159 votes [30.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.75%

If he did move to Ferrar would it be the right choice?

  1. Yes (175 votes [33.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.85%

  2. No (259 votes [50.10%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.10%

  3. I don't have enough information to form an opinion either way (83 votes [16.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 16.05%

Vote

#501 Slowinfastout

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 15:34

All of this assumes Red Bull will just sit there and disappear up their own asses without saying goodbye to anyone.

Fat chance.

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#502 jstrains

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 15:48

According to Red Bull statement to ESPN, Vettel will stay with the team for 2014 as well...

#503 EvanRainer

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 15:48

There's no chance fingerboy is going to Ferrari, it would be a dumb move, outside of a Newey car he has no track record and nobody knows what he can do in a less than dominant car, he's not as highly respected as FA so he's not getting the ride.


:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

#504 DrF

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 15:56

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103462

Speaking to Italian radio, however, di Montezemolo says he is wary of having a line-up that could create tension within the team.

"Today the problem is not with drivers. 2013 is still to come but I don't want to have two roosters in the same hen-house, rather two drivers who race for Ferrari and not for themselves," Montezemolo told RAI radio.

"I don't want problems and rivalries, which we didn't have between Schumacher and Irvine, between Schumacher and Barrichello, between Alonso and Massa or Massa and Schumi or Massa and Raikkonen."


So Vettel is the problem! He's the one who will kick up a fuss if his team mate starts beating him. /sarcasm

The sooner Luca realises that two roosters score a lot more points than one rooster and a chicken, the sooner Ferrari will win the WCC again.

#505 pRy

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:02

The Horse Whisperer *cough* luca di montezemelo *cough* has addressed the issue here. He sort of gives away who he is by talking about Roosters both on the blog and in the press today:

http://www.ferrari.c...-the-other.aspx

#506 showtime

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:22

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103462



So Vettel is the problem! He's the one who will kick up a fuss if his team mate starts beating him. /sarcasm

The sooner Luca realises that two roosters score a lot more points than one rooster and a chicken, the sooner Ferrari will win the WCC again.


People assume too much about Alonso possible behaviour but seem to forget how Vettel behave when things were not done as he liked in 2010. Anyway Ferrari problems are not in the lineup but in the design room, with a car like the RB Massa would be enough to secure both championships as Webber proves.

#507 showtime

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 16:25

The Horse Whisperer *cough* luca di montezemelo *cough* has addressed the issue here. He sort of gives away who he is by talking about Roosters both on the blog and in the press today:

http://www.ferrari.c...-the-other.aspx


For all I know he could be the HW but the writer doesn't gives away anything, he is just quoting Montezemolo.

#508 JimiKart

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:14

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:


Agreed, it's funny fingerboy won't be going to Ferrari as FA won't allow it and it's he that has the veto, I'm laughing to, believe me.

#509 RealRacing

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:16

Everything about Ferrari is contradictory: they say the team comes first, yet they either don't allow drivers to compete properly (losing points for the WCC), or they keep a No. 2 who is not performing up to the task. So they don't want another rooster to avoid conflict with their No. 1 rooster, but at the same time think that the "little names" are not good enough for a seat that is basically a career destroyer for a young, ambitious driver. I'm afraid that, with this policy, the only other good driver for Ferrari is a red robot with a sensor that will go BEEP anytime the car goes too close to the rooster's.

And I think that they also are mistaken about their real appeal to drivers with their driver policy and their aerodynamic problems. Let's face it, it's not the 50s anymore and teams that have their tech sorted are more attractive to 21st century drivers. These days a Newey is more important than an aged prancing horse.

#510 JimiKart

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:17

Alonso has a long history of issues if teammate is too close. He cracks


Does he also stand at the side of the track (pointing THE finger at his head, so as to) call his team mate retarded. just like fingerboy?

#511 Jon83

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:18

Everything about Ferrari is contradictory: they say the team comes first, yet they either don't allow drivers to compete properly (losing points for the WCC), or they keep a No. 2 who is not performing up to the task. So they don't want another rooster to avoid conflict with their No. 1 rooster, but at the same time think that the "little names" are not good enough for a seat that is basically a career destroyer for a young, ambitious driver. I'm afraid that, with this policy, the only other good driver for Ferrari is a red robot with a sensor that will go BEEP anytime the car goes too close to the rooster's.

And I think that they also are mistaken about their real appeal to drivers with their driver policy and their aerodynamic problems. Let's face it, it's not the 50s anymore and teams that have their tech sorted are more attractive to 21st century drivers. These days a Newey is more important than an aged prancing horse.


Yet Vettel and even Hamilton have spoken about how appealing the team is.

#512 PinkZepStones

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:23

okay. so either Montezemolo really didn't want to put Alonso and Raikkönen as 2 roosters in one team, or he knew in advance that despite his WDC in 2007, and healthily leading the championship at the time he said that, he is going to be outperformed by Massa (-> sabotage?) :wave:


Judging by the F1 I've seen, so does Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Prost, Senna, mansell, never seen a world champion thy hasn't had problems with a top teammate.

#513 PinkZepStones

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:24

That's not meant for you zava!

#514 PinkZepStones

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:29

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103462



So Vettel is the problem! He's the one who will kick up a fuss if his team mate starts beating him. /sarcasm

The sooner Luca realises that two roosters score a lot more points than one rooster and a chicken, the sooner Ferrari will win the WCC again.


I'm assuming you missed 2007, 2011, 2004, god the list goes on the idea that any team let alone Ferrari won't win a wdc with a rooster and a chicken so to speak is ridiculous, making the best car gets you a wcc no matter two top drivers or not.

#515 King Six

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:41

The situation at Mclaren in 2007 made me laugh louder.

Ferrari's president is smart, and as a Ferrari fan I think Vettel leaving his Red Bull to drive Alonso's car may not be the best of decisions.

McLaren had one of them what you call good problems. They just handled it mind bogglingly badly, not that the drivers helped either, but it can work. All it needs is a pragmatic and professional approach. I'm telling you, unless Ferrari can pull off a car that's as dominant as what Red Bull are making (or perhaps even more dominant), they're not going to win the WCC with only one great driver and one decent driver. They need a good driver at least I reckon, like Webber is with Red Bull. Someone that can still score the occasional wins and consistent podiums and put up at least a half hearted fight towards his team mate.

Ferrari's approach is at odds with its ambitions.

#516 RealRacing

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:44

Yet Vettel and even Hamilton have spoken about how appealing the team is.


True but I think the team has a bigger image of itself than the drivers and they are kind of stuck in the past in that regard. Vettel and Hamilton want to keep doors open; after all, Ferrari can produce a good car. And Ferrari love some a** licking so they play the game. But, realistically, how attractive is a team that is a) technologically not up to par with the other top teams and b) has a driver policy that does not give top drivers assurance? On top of that, their philosophy of "team is everything" is proving to be outdated, less successful and less attractive lately to young top drivers like Vettel, who, in a team with no tradition, has been able to win 2 championships already.

#517 ZooL

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 17:50

Don't trust what comes out of Montezemelo - he's an Italian politician...

Ferrari have to do this from need rather than desire. They cannot just stand back and let RBR take a stranglehold on F1. I see this more as a strategic move to break up RBR. They tried with Newey first as he's the key guy not Vettel but his family won't live in Italy. Now they go for Vettel and that will break up the RBR dream team.

It's the only card Ferrari have left, the attraction (which is a marketing illusion) of the marquee to other drivers.

Vettel is a fool if he left to try and beat Alonso, he struggles against Webber. Unless Vettel knows that Newey is not comitting to 2014 either...

Or its because Horner is going.....to fill Ecclestones boots.

#518 Zava

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:04

Don't trust what comes out of Montezemelo - he's an Italian politician...

Ferrari have to do this from need rather than desire. They cannot just stand back and let RBR take a stranglehold on F1. I see this more as a strategic move to break up RBR. They tried with Newey first as he's the key guy not Vettel but his family won't live in Italy. Now they go for Vettel and that will break up the RBR dream team.

It's the only card Ferrari have left, the attraction (which is a marketing illusion) of the marquee to other drivers.

Vettel is a fool if he left to try and beat Alonso, he struggles against Webber. Unless Vettel knows that Newey is not comitting to 2014 either...

Or its because Horner is going.....to fill Ecclestones boots.

so if Vettel is not a key figure, how is taking him going to be a major loss to RB? I mean, if he is not a key figure, that means that he isn't irreplaceable, any average Joe could fill his shoes. so? :)

#519 ZooL

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:25

so if Vettel is not a key figure, how is taking him going to be a major loss to RB? I mean, if he is not a key figure, that means that he isn't irreplaceable, any average Joe could fill his shoes. so? :)

I meant Vettel is key - but not as much as Newey.

For me the 3 key guys at RBR are Newey/Vettel/Horner. They do their job to a tee.

Edited by ZooL, 15 October 2012 - 18:26.


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#520 Sakae

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:27

Vettel is a fool if he left to try and beat Alonso, he struggles against Webber.

Let him try it. I am quite certain that Vettel has nothing to worry about, and he will turn Alonso into second Webber within course of one season, that would be my guess as it stands today.

#521 jstrains

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:36

I do not understand why some people here still push for Ferrari having 2 equal drivers. It is their policy, their decision and they will not decide what people say here. Red Bull is not having 2 equal drivers as well although they are stating the opposite - MW is a forever No.2. The same will be at Merc next year and McLaren as well...

#522 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:46

“I've always said that I don't want two roosters in the hen-house,” Montezemolo told Italy's Radio1. “I don't like that and it creates instability in the team.”

I think this is a warning to Alonso. Win titles for us or you will be gone, then to rub salt, lemon and vinegar in the wounds we'll bring in the man who has bettered you the last three years. After Schumacher and Raikkonen leaving, I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso is forced to leave in 2014/15/16 for Vettel. Therefore, only one rooster in the hen-house.

#523 RealRacing

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:50

I do not understand why some people here still push for Ferrari having 2 equal drivers. It is their policy, their decision and they will not decide what people say here. Red Bull is not having 2 equal drivers as well although they are stating the opposite - MW is a forever No.2. The same will be at Merc next year and McLaren as well...


Exactly, Ferrari have had this policy for a long time now. They just need a driver able to do better than Massa but willing to be a [distant] No. 2 without hating the team for it. The No. 1, No. 2 policy is more marked at Ferrari than at other teams, i.e., it's enforced earlier and stronger. I wonder why it's proving so difficult to attract drivers to Ferrari's other seat?...



#524 eronrules

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 18:51

I think this is a warning to Alonso. Win titles for us or you will be gone, then to rub salt, lemon and vinegar in the wounds we'll bring in the man who has bettered you the last three years. After Schumacher and Raikkonen leaving, I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso is forced to leave in 2014/15/16 for Vettel. Therefore, only one rooster in the hen-house.


be serious dude, alonso is over-driving F2012, montezuma knows that too, beating Redbulls is now ferrari's main priority, not replacing alonso. i believe the reason of these renewed talks is because most probably alonso will leave F1 with 3 titles and ferrari are just pre-booking vettel.

#525 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:01

Horse Whisperer is talking about the rumors:
http://www.ferrari.c...-the-other.aspx
http://www.jamesalle...tel-to-ferrari/

#526 2ms

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:11

If I'm not mistaken, 9/10 times when Ferrari says something is not happening, it means that it actually is happening.

Of course Ferrari are trying to get Vettel. He's the most reliable and fast driver in F1. Just as importantly, if they take him away from RB then RB will not have him anymore. Make no mistake, RB success is as much thanks to their driver as it is to their car, and taking that away from Red Bull would be a total coup for them, even if it causes Alonso to get upset and leave ala 2008. Just look how Massa has been beating Webber lately, for example.

#527 Mandzipop

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:14

Horse Whisperer is talking about the rumors:
http://www.ferrari.c...-the-other.aspx
http://www.jamesalle...tel-to-ferrari/


I thought that was an odd post by the Horse Whisperer. I'd already read it and initially thought part way down that they were denying it, but the last part baffled me as it almost contradicts itself.

When I read it again, my thoughts were that Seb hasn't actually signed for 2014, but he might be. :well:

#528 eronrules

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:21

Horse Whisperer is talking about the rumors:
http://www.ferrari.c...-the-other.aspx
http://www.jamesalle...tel-to-ferrari/


james allen confirms what i think about this whole situation ... a bit of truth mixed with lots of hype to rattle RB

as i said before ... not gonna happen in 2014, perhaps in 2016 or whenever alonso chooses to retire. :smoking:

#529 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:24

I thought that was an odd post by the Horse Whisperer. I'd already read it and initially thought part way down that they were denying it, but the last part baffled me as it almost contradicts itself.

When I read it again, my thoughts were that Seb hasn't actually signed for 2014, but he might be. :well:


That's what James Allen also mentions in the other link. He also says

I know who writes the Horse Whisperer column and he’s a prominent figure within the Scuderia, so this is a careful message."

And I think his summary is probably close to the truth:

As I have written here several times in the last six months, my sources in Italy, which have never been wrong on a Ferrari story in the last 20 years, say that there does appear to be some kind of understanding between Vettel and Ferrari, but it is conditional on many things and is not necessarily for 2014, as has been suggested.



#530 sharo

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 19:26

Funny, if we substitute one letter in Seb's surname pronunciation [fetel] to [petel], in Bulgarian it means exactly that - rooster. :)

#531 FenderJaguar

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 20:40

Might even be that it depends on what happens with the WDC this year. If Alonso wins he will have a better position within Ferrari. If it goes on and he doesn't deliver a title I wouldn't be surprised if Vettel gets called in for 2014.

#532 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 20:52

If I'm not mistaken, 9/10 times when Ferrari says something is not happening, it means that it actually is happening.

Of course Ferrari are trying to get Vettel. He's the most reliable and fast driver in F1. Just as importantly, if they take him away from RB then RB will not have him anymore. Make no mistake, RB success is as much thanks to their driver as it is to their car, and taking that away from Red Bull would be a total coup for them, even if it causes Alonso to get upset and leave ala 2008. Just look how Massa has been beating Webber lately, for example.

And then Alonso would be free to go to Red Bull, making Ferrari's situation worse than it was before if you take the opinion that Alonso is perhaps a little better than Vettel, which I do.

And Ferrari aren't gonna ditch Alonso if he doesn't win a title with them. If they give him a car ala F2007/F2008 and he fails to win it, sure, maybe then, but otherwise they'll realize their problem right now is car-related, not driver-related. Alonso is driving magnificently still. It'd be stupid to get rid of him.

Edited by Seanspeed, 15 October 2012 - 20:54.


#533 jstrains

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:13

Is Alonso planing to retire? Did he say anything about 3 WDCs and then over?

#534 2ms

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 21:57

And then Alonso would be free to go to Red Bull, making Ferrari's situation worse than it was before if you take the opinion that Alonso is perhaps a little better than Vettel, which I do.

And Ferrari aren't gonna ditch Alonso if he doesn't win a title with them. If they give him a car ala F2007/F2008 and he fails to win it, sure, maybe then, but otherwise they'll realize their problem right now is car-related, not driver-related. Alonso is driving magnificently still. It'd be stupid to get rid of him.


He's got a lot of fans like from 2005 and 2006 when he beat Schumacher much in same manner he himself has been being beaten by Vettel. However, it's 6 years now and he hasn't really been able to replicate those results in other cars, has he? Ferrari's not one of those teams that just sits around and waits forever. Also, it's hard to imagine Alonso's money lasting forever either, as Spanish banking's coming up for yet another round of bailouts. Much as they may argue F1 is great investment for them, people on other ends of purse strings don't always have same perspective...

#535 Mandzipop

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:17

From the stuff I've read, Marko has admitted that Seb does have get-out clauses for 2014 which are performance based. The tie in with the James Allen story. For Seb to go to Ferrari in 2014, Ferrari basically need to beat Red Bull in the WCC or some other type of performance clause. Whatever that is, who knows. However it technically gives options for both in 2014 and if clauses are met/not met then Seb would stay at Red Bull or go to Ferrari.

However, at the end of 2014 Seb is a free man anyway.

The Horse Whisperer hasn't ruled out Seb and Alonso together at Ferrari. And from what James Allen has said (and when it comes to Ferrari stuff he is pretty good on this front), he knows who it is wh has said that and he called it a non-denial denial. So my guess is not an if, but when.

Felipe's contract when it is announced might give more insight. The speculation has been over the last week that his contract will be announced tomorrow, which has pretty much been confirmed today.




#536 King Six

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:20

I do not understand why some people here still push for Ferrari having 2 equal drivers. It is their policy, their decision and they will not decide what people say here. Red Bull is not having 2 equal drivers as well although they are stating the opposite - MW is a forever No.2. The same will be at Merc next year and McLaren as well...

Because in this day and age you're better off like that. Mark Webber isn't a complete number two driver. I'd call him a 1.5 driver, and that's something Ferrari need IF, and this is a big IF Ferrari can produce a car as good as Red Bull do relative to the field, no easy task on its own. WITHOUT a Red Bull style car (i.e: A car like the F2012, perhaps slightly faster), then they definitely need two equal Number 1 top drivers for them (not even a Mark Webber 1.5) to have any hope of winning the WCC. That's all I'm saying.

Right now for 2012 with a so-and-so car, and one great driver and...Massa. They don't have a snowballs chance in hell of the WCC, and Massa arguably isn't good enough to help Alonso out for the WDC compared to how Webber does Vettel. Catch my drift?

It's a different era. Ferrari are stuck in the old world with their policy, I guarantee you that. This isn't 2002 or 2004 anymore. Ferrari are far behind the likes of Red Bull in terms of pace, McLaren too, just that right now McLaren are rather inept (right now being the past few years).

We'll see if Massa can turn himself into what I call a 1.5 driver. Maybe he has turned a page now. Maybe we might even see a number 1 aka 2008 Felipe Massa... :stoned:

#537 as65p

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:24

He's got a lot of fans like from 2005 and 2006 when he beat Schumacher much in same manner he himself has been being beaten by Vettel.


Wut? :lol:

For a start, 2005 wasn't a battle of MS vs. Alonso. But more importantly, Vettel and Alonso never had cars as evenly matched as Renault and Ferrari in 2006.

I'm not even saying who would come out on top should it happen one day, I don't have a crystal ball. But the point is, "much in the same manner" as 2006 hasn't happened yet.

#538 CF22

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:25

He's got a lot of fans like from 2005 and 2006 when he beat Schumacher much in same manner he himself has been being beaten by Vettel. However, it's 6 years now and he hasn't really been able to replicate those results in other cars, has he? Ferrari's not one of those teams that just sits around and waits forever. Also, it's hard to imagine Alonso's money lasting forever either, as Spanish banking's coming up for yet another round of bailouts. Much as they may argue F1 is great investment for them, people on other ends of purse strings don't always have same perspective...


I agree with the Seanspeed, Alonso is a magnificent driver and it'll be difficult for Ferrari to get rid of him, if they have to choose between Vettel and Alonso for 2014 they'll definitely choose Alonso. Any fan with experience knows that if we loose the title this year it won't be Fernando's fault, it's the car. In 2008 and 2009 he dragged that Renault around and won a few races and even got a pole in 2009 when that car was horrible. Right now he's in his prime, maybe when he turns 36 things will be different and I'm sure Ferrari will assess the situation then but as of now Fernando is going nowhere, and the Tifosi love him as we did old Schumacher.

Santander's money is a common misconception, Alonso got their sponsorship through hard work. Even if Santander decided to leave Formula 1 and take away his sponsorship Ferrari will pay for his services, Ferrari is not a cash strapped team but the more money the better, that's why they took Santander they weren't going to say no to free money.

At this point in time Red Bull is doing better thanks to their capacity to produce fast cars, obviously Vettel is a good driver but Newey and co. have a lot to do with his and RB's success but the beginning to this season tells a lot.

#539 plumtree

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 22:36

From the stuff I've read, Marko has admitted that Seb does have get-out clauses for 2014 which are performance based. The tie in with the James Allen story. For Seb to go to Ferrari in 2014, Ferrari basically need to beat Red Bull in the WCC or some other type of performance clause. Whatever that is, who knows. However it technically gives options for both in 2014 and if clauses are met/not met then Seb would stay at Red Bull or go to Ferrari.

However, at the end of 2014 Seb is a free man anyway.

The Horse Whisperer hasn't ruled out Seb and Alonso together at Ferrari. And from what James Allen has said (and when it comes to Ferrari stuff he is pretty good on this front), he knows who it is wh has said that and he called it a non-denial denial. So my guess is not an if, but when.

Felipe's contract when it is announced might give more insight. The speculation has been over the last week that his contract will be announced tomorrow, which has pretty much been confirmed today.

I sort of agree with the first part.

Could Hulk's move to Sauber be a back-up plan, in case this Vettel thing doesn't work for them?

Q. James. Your sources at Ferrari also said Massa is out for 2013. But I agree exactly with what you have written!

JA: Not exactly , I said that the situation was fluid, but it looked that way at the time. They have a Force India driver under option. I think it’s Hulkenberg, which may be connected to his mooted Sauber move now.
I think there have been a number of possible 2013 scenarios for the second Ferrari at various points during this year – that’s how ‘fluid’ it has been!



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#540 ed24f1

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 23:09

Could Hulk's move to Sauber be a back-up plan, in case this Vettel thing doesn't work for them?


I think that's certain. If so, it's very interesting though that they think Hulkenberg is a better prospect than Perez - we'll have to wait and see how he goes at McLaren to see whether they were right or not.

#541 RealRacing

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 23:14

Because in this day and age you're better off like that. Mark Webber isn't a complete number two driver. I'd call him a 1.5 driver, and that's something Ferrari need IF, and this is a big IF Ferrari can produce a car as good as Red Bull do relative to the field, no easy task on its own. WITHOUT a Red Bull style car (i.e: A car like the F2012, perhaps slightly faster), then they definitely need two equal Number 1 top drivers for them (not even a Mark Webber 1.5) to have any hope of winning the WCC. That's all I'm saying.

Right now for 2012 with a so-and-so car, and one great driver and...Massa. They don't have a snowballs chance in hell of the WCC, and Massa arguably isn't good enough to help Alonso out for the WDC compared to how Webber does Vettel. Catch my drift?

It's a different era. Ferrari are stuck in the old world with their policy, I guarantee you that. This isn't 2002 or 2004 anymore. Ferrari are far behind the likes of Red Bull in terms of pace, McLaren too, just that right now McLaren are rather inept (right now being the past few years).

We'll see if Massa can turn himself into what I call a 1.5 driver. Maybe he has turned a page now. Maybe we might even see a number 1 aka 2008 Felipe Massa... :stoned:


That's what's so strange about Ferrari. They say the team is the most important thing yet, with their driver policy, they seem to be gunning more for the WDC. Alonso says they need another driver that thinks of the team first, yet he backs Massa for the seat, a driver that hasn't brought any results for the team. The problem with that policy is that having such a marked No.1, No. 2 driver (more so than other teams as you mention), they affect their chances of getting the WCC as driver No.2 is discarded too early in the championship. Without the motivation of being WDC, his performance suffers and so do the team's chances at the WCC.


#542 Seanspeed

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 23:25

That's what's so strange about Ferrari. They say the team is the most important thing yet, with their driver policy, they seem to be gunning more for the WDC. Alonso says they need another driver that thinks of the team first, yet he backs Massa for the seat, a driver that hasn't brought any results for the team. The problem with that policy is that having such a marked No.1, No. 2 driver (more so than other teams as you mention), they affect their chances of getting the WCC as driver No.2 is discarded too early in the championship. Without the motivation of being WDC, his performance suffers and so do the team's chances at the WCC.

Its not Ferrari's fault that Massa doesn't perform well. If he keeps himself in the fight early on like Alonso can do, they wont be asking him to play no.2. Simple as that.

Cant say it enough - Ferrari's WCC chances are affected far more by not being able to build a car good enough deserving of it.

#543 y2cwr2005

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 01:57

Just watching BBC news at 3am, as you do. Their reporting Vettel is all set for Ferrari in 2014. Its not reported anywhere else, more Eddie Jordan guesswork? :confused:

#544 RealRacing

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 03:46

Its not Ferrari's fault that Massa doesn't perform well. If he keeps himself in the fight early on like Alonso can do, they wont be asking him to play no.2. Simple as that.

Cant say it enough - Ferrari's WCC chances are affected far more by not being able to build a car good enough deserving of it.


Well, that's open to discussion at least and not as simple, as many, many discussions prove on this very forum. In any case, it IS their fault not having replaced him after underperforming for so long.

Of course if you build a faster car, everything is easier. Having said that, Ferrari has been among the best overall this year taking everything into account, so it's not as dramatic as they or FA want to make us believe every race weekend. But if you believe you don't have the fastest car, it seems logical you can maximize your chances at the WCC by letting both drivers compete among themselves as long as possible. And it is here that Ferrari is contradictory, saying on one hand that the team is above everything and enforcing the No. 1, No. 2 policy earlier and more markedly than any other team.

#545 Sakae

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:01

Just watching BBC news at 3am, as you do. Their reporting Vettel is all set for Ferrari in 2014. Its not reported anywhere else, more Eddie Jordan guesswork? :confused:

Jordan (like Lauda) seems to discover his new career - Crystal Ball Forecasts.

#546 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 06:57

I think Alonso will be replaced or told to live with Vettel- Ferrari's new No.1 from 2014 onwards... If:-

-Alonso fails to win this years WDC 2012.
considering Ferrari practically gave their 100% development money towards making a car to Alonso's preference with 0 results so far in 3 years is quite sad if you look at it from performance point of view.

-Alonso is a great driver.
But not the greatest in the current grid as some seem to endlessly harp about. Vettel, Hamilton & a returning Raikkonen has shown that they can bang in laps consistent, and perform to the level their cars will allow them to. All this bullsh!t about Alonso outperforming his car just fanboy statements. For eg, one can say Vettel & Kimi have outperformed their car too. All great drivers are equal, and then all depends on the car's speed, politics, money & media hype.

-Alonso is mainly responsible for Ferrari losing out in WCC battle.
because the greatest driver in the world cannot handle a decent teammate. Vettel is a whiner too, but he seems to take it out on himself and doesn't cry over the radio for Webber to move over. Vettel has come 2nd to Webber's first a few times over the years... but Alonso just can't handle Massa winning the race in front even a single time... as seen in Germany. There is always hope for Webber as Vettel's teammate, but there is zero hope for Massa as Alonso's teammate. Confidence much!!

-Alonso can be replaced by another great driver called Vettel easily
If Alonso goes 3 years without any championship. Considering Ferrari replaced Kimi for Alonso... it is only fair to look at the stats for reasoning. If Raikkonen's reasoning is applied by Ferrari, Alonso should be out very soon.

Kimi- 3 years, 1 WDC+2WCC= 3 Championship.... and he got shoved out.
with equal driver status with Massa, divided development funds between 2 drivers, focus and attention divided between garages.

Alonso- 3 years*, 0 WDC+0WCC= 0 Championship (season yet to finish, so assuming)
with Big Fat No.1 status, 100% development funds towards Alonso's driving style, both garages focussed on one driver.

So Alonso failing this year to win the WDC, he will most likely be replaced by the Youngest 3*WDC who has basically rewritten the history books, and has not even turned 25. There is only so much a historical team like Ferrari can depend on a great driver who is failing to win them any championships in both forms. Alosno is great, so is Kimi & so is Schumi.... everyone can be replaced.

PS- All this Vettel talk will be null & void as soon as Alonso wins the championship this year. In that case, Ferrari have no reason to get Vettel as I believe Alonso will then stay as the top Ferrari driver till 2016... & he will win more championships. On the other hand, Ferrari can't afford to lose Vettel to Mclaren to replace Button in 2 years... so it's a catch 22 situation for Ferrari

Edited by BackOnTop, 16 October 2012 - 07:16.


#547 tifosiMac

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:39

I think what a lot of people have over looked is the timing of this leak. It comes in a time where Red Bull and Ferrari are going head to head for the title. Vettel may well have an agreement for 2014 based on the competitiveness of the Ferrari in 2013, but the release of such information now is a brilliant tactic by Ferrari. Its got us talking too.  ;)

#548 fed up

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:44

I think what a lot of people have over looked is the timing of this leak. It comes in a time where Red Bull and Ferrari are going head to head for the title. Vettel may well have an agreement for 2014 based on the competitiveness of the Ferrari in 2013, but the release of such information now is a brilliant tactic by Ferrari. Its got us talking too. ;)


It's not a brilliant tactic imo.

At worst it will motivate Vettel to stamp his authority on Alonso and motivate RBR to maximise the opportunity for 2012 and 2013

At best it will distract RBR. I can't see it.

#549 BackOnTop

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:49

I think what a lot of people have over looked is the timing of this leak. It comes in a time where Red Bull and Ferrari are going head to head for the title. Vettel may well have an agreement for 2014 based on the competitiveness of the Ferrari in 2013, but the release of such information now is a brilliant tactic by Ferrari. Its got us talking too.;)

But this might make Alonso very nervous as well.... especially because now Alonso might put pressure on himself to win this year's title and mess it up.

A strong rumour about a driver like Vettel joining Ferrari will only make Alonso look like he has under-achieved so far, hence the necessity to look at other avenues.

Not good for Alonso's ego at all.

Edited by BackOnTop, 16 October 2012 - 07:50.


#550 tifosiMac

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 07:57

Good points by both :)