The bolded part I disagree with. That car isn't and hasn't been the quickest for large parts of any season that Alonso has driven it.
Okay, but I was not speaking about the quality of the car. You have perhaps misunderstood the context of my statement and have gone on to discuss this new idea regarding how Alonso drove the car. That wasn't my point. I did state the context in which I was speaking: Alonso has obtained no World Driver's Championships or World Constructor's Championships (with Massa).
Alonso during his time at Ferrari so far has earned zero - none. There may be a myriad of reasons for it, but that is not the point. The point is that he hasn't set any standards because he hasn't achieved any of the primary goals in F1 for top teams - winning a championship. Thus, if he quit F1 tomorrow, Vettel would be able to accomplish exactly what he has in that regard in the same amount of time: Nothing.
Did Alonso drive well for Ferrari? Maybe so, but it has no bearing on the things that matter most to Ferrari. Driving well doesn't add cups to the shelf; it doesn't allow Alonso's picture to be included on the wall at Ferrari World as a Ferrari Champion for Sponsors to throw money at, nor does it put any constructor champ money in Ferrari's pocket. My point was that if you used that standard and applied it to Vettel when he arrives at Ferrari, he could easily achieve what Alonso has achieved in terms of WDC and WCC so far. But neither Vettel or Alonso may be able to match what previous Ferrari champions have achieved, including the one that was discussed. Only time will tell.
If past Ferrari champions are going to enter into the conversation, then we have to acknowledge the facts; Alonso is not a Ferrari champion yet, in any regard - Vettel either - and so they have big shoes to fill, not just beating one another. The intrateam battle is meaningless in comparison to the true goal of these drivers - winning championships, imo.
Plus since he joined Ferrari Massa has been allowed to beat him and there have been 3 teams in the mix. Alonso doesn't design the car. He can only give feedback. Massa also plays a part in that too. They have to work as a unit in that part.
I won't go into the 2007 discussion as it has been had on this forum too many times and this thread is about Seb to Ferrari not Kimi and Ferrari.
As a Ferrari fan, what I do know is that they are unlikely to bring in a double WDC to play a number 2 role to another driver. Seb has a bit more clout than most of the drivers on the grid. Be realistic, why would Ferrari want a double WDC and not offer parity to the other driver when they have offered it to another driver against their current double WDC who isn't a WDC?
If they want Seb, both him and Alonso are very likely to get parity. The difference would be when a driver would have to become a number 2 driver. Neither would do it until it is mathematical, not realistic unlike it is now when it is a realistic chance.
Well this is a different topic than that which I was discussing. I have never argued against any of this. I have stated in a previous post that Ferrari would not bring Vettel in to play lapdog to Alonso - but I have also said that Vettel won't go to Ferrari in that role anyway. So I am not sure why you are responding to my post with these statements - but perhaps you are just making new points. I think we agree on the points you have made (although I am firmly against the manner in which they carry out their #1 policy - but I don't think they would carry it out unfairly against Vettel, which is the point).
Seb and Alonso are both going to be Prima Dona's at Ferrari.
That is a big assumption, imo. I would not be able to agree with your opinion on that. Vettel is still too young to gauge the man he will ultimately become, imo. Somethings will remain the same, but some things are bound to change.
If both accept the challenge, they obviously believe that they would be good enough to beat each other and if they do then there is less shame in losing out to another double WDC (or how many they both have at that point).
As a Ferrari fan (which most who know my posting history) know that I am genuinely a Ferrari fan, and it is also a well known fact (from those who read my posts) that I'm a huge Seb fan. I don't have any issue with it. It appears that a large number of Ferrari fans don't have an issue and would welcome Seb. Same with the Alonso fans. However, I have noticed that the trend of fans not wanting him to go to Ferrari are Seb fans. I don't understand that. Why would a Seb fan fear Alonso so much? If Seb is as good a driver as Seb fans think he is (myself included), why should we worry about him being teammates with Alonso?
Perhaps you do not have a problem with the Ferrari #1 policy. I do.
I don't think Ferrari would be unfair to Seb from the start, but Ferrari would be unfair to the driver left behind around the midpoint in any case - which could be either Alonso or Vettel. I would hate it if it were Alonso left in the dust too.
I detest that policy - do not like it at all. They call off the chase WAY too soon and try to pretend it is 'too late' and 'all over' for the other driver, even though mathematically it isn't (IMO).
I dislike Ferrari's policy in that regard and I also hate the way they treat their drivers. I don't mean to offend fans - it isn't the fans' fault. But I was deeply offended by their treatment of several drivers in the past, including two of my favs.
I trust that the Ferrari management team would be very capable of managing the 2 drivers with massive ego's. That is just my opinion.
I agree, I don't think this would be an issue at all.
Edited by bourbon, 18 September 2012 - 05:30.