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Singapore build up


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#1 Richard T

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:33

Alright it's raceweek again and we are heading to Singapore for round 14 of the 2012 Formula 1 world championship.

Ferrari is set to bring major updates but so are Mclaren and probably all the other top teams. Who will be the strongest next weekend?

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Discuss...

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#2 jrg19

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:43

Between Alonso and Hamilton for the win.

#3 RedBaron

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:44

Mercedes had some interesting upgrades at the young driver test last week. Hopefully they can take a step forward in race pace and no longer fall back by the time the flag drops.

#4 korzeniow

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:47

Between Alonso and Hamilton for the win.


I didn't notice Ferrari being competitive on twisty high downforce tracks

#5 korzeniow

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 09:48

Mercedes had some interesting upgrades at the young driver test last week. Hopefully they can take a step forward in race pace and no longer fall back by the time the flag drops.


I'm also very curious about how Mercedes' updates will work out

#6 dau

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:01

I'm also very curious about how Mercedes' updates will work out

They probably won't. As usual.

#7 slmk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:20

I didn't notice Ferrari being competitive on twisty high downforce tracks


Ferrari had great race pace at Monaco. McLaren was so-so at Monaco but much better Valencia and Hungary (closest comparables). Red Bull was good at Monaco and Valencia. Lotus was good at Valencia and Hungary.

It's going to be tight.

#8 BRG

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:00

Alright it's raceweek again and we are heading to Singapore for round 14 of the 2012 Formula 1 world championship.
Discuss...

Oh no, it's Singapore time again. Yawn.

Still, it's Japan after that, so there is still something to look forward to.

But then it is the Building Site GP in Korea, the Pollution GP in India, and the Ultimate Tlkefest GP in Abu Crappy. Hopefully, the Texas Rangers will rescue us with thier promising new track (even if no-one can afford a ticket) and then mercifully we have BRazil - a good track and real, genuine race fans.

#9 Raelene

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:02

7pm here in Singapore- been drizzling today - hopefully stays clear for the race.

#10 Richard T

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:03

7pm here in Singapore- been drizzling today - hopefully stays clear for the race.


Official F1 site says rain... :|

#11 GotYoubyTheBalls

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:14

Cant see anyone beating Mclaren given their car advantage.

#12 Red17

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:21

Abu Crappy

:up: :lol:

Well, at least the flyaways are balanced.

Since all is quiet on the «we have no idea what that part is, so we will protest to get it explained» camp I guess it will be more the usual.
Fernando saying «poor me, i have no car» and the continued speculation on the Hamilton saga.

Ferrari and Mclaren should up their game now with the odd Mercedes or Lotus sneaking by.

#13 Brandz07

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:26

It seems like everyone's underestimating Red Bull!

#14 nemtudom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:38

Official F1 site says rain... :|


It always says rain... :D Even if it rains, it will not necessarily happen during the practices/race. It might rain every morning but dry up completely before the F1 action starts. F1.com's forecasts have proved to be quite useless on many occasions.

#15 seahawk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:46

McLaren 1+2.

#16 Massa_f1

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:47

Cant see anyone beating Mclaren given their car advantage.



Same. I hope for some drizzle for qualifying as McLaren dont like the damp conditions.

#17 sesku

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:47

Official F1 site says rain... :|

Do they already had solution about the problem (rain/water spray reflecting the light and affect driver vision)?

Singapore GP really lucky for the past four years because of no rain.


#18 Kvothe

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:50

Cant see anyone beating Mclaren given their car advantage.


Pace on two low drag circuits with the hard and medium tyre mean nothing.

With both the supersoft and soft the tyres of choice, and on a track that'll reflect McLaren's main weakness which is traction I fully expect the competitive order to be much different to what it was in Spa and Monza.

If it isn't.....well I won't complain :)

#19 Juggles

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:51

It seems like everyone's underestimating Red Bull!


Agreed, that stuck out to me as well. Perhaps the lower expectations are because the last two races were Spa and Monza. Vettel is actually my favourite for the win in Singapore.

It's not even worth saying this weekend is crucial for the world championship because every race is crucial now (just as they were at the start of the season, but we didn't know it at the time!)

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#20 slmk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:53

Agreed, that stuck out to me as well. Perhaps the lower expectations are because the last two races were Spa and Monza. Vettel is actually my favourite for the win in Singapore.

It's not even worth saying this weekend is crucial for the world championship because every race is crucial now (just as they were at the start of the season, but we didn't know it at the time!)


The problem is not in terms of race pace, it's qualifying pace. RBR is nowhere in qualifying pace.

#21 sailor

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:53

Judging by Valencia - its a Vettel walkover in Quali and race (if the alternator remains cool enough :))

#22 nemtudom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:55

Do they already had solution about the problem (rain/water spray reflecting the light and affect driver vision)?

Singapore GP really lucky for the past four years because of no rain.


Actually I wouldn't mind if it rained during one of the practice sessions, just to see how they react to the circumstances (as so much fuss has been made about the issue). I'd like to see whether rain is really a problem here, and if it is, how they cope with the problem. (Of course I don't want to see accidents.) I just hope the rain doesn't come right before the start of the race.

#23 wj_gibson

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:57

It's the least engine-based of the remaining circuits so RBR should be a lot closer than at Monza, no?

Surely those short, tight corners favour Vettel?

Assuming the team doesn't turn up in a downhearted mood, of course.

#24 ali.unal

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:05

Pace on two low drag circuits with the hard and medium tyre mean nothing.

Then what about Hungary? They won it from pole to flag on medium and soft tyres.

McLaren is the fastest car on all types of circuits in all sessions of the weekend by winning the last 3 different races from pole. An all-around car that is: fast on high-downforce, fast on low-downforce, fast in quali trim and fast in race trim. If that's not the definition of a fastest car, I don't know what is.

Edited by ali.unal, 17 September 2012 - 12:10.


#25 korzeniow

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:08

It's the least engine-based of the remaining circuits so RBR should be a lot closer than at Monza, no?

Surely those short, tight corners favour Vettel?

Assuming the team doesn't turn up in a downhearted mood, of course.


Actually it's engine based circuit. But this time based on driveability not on power. After Lotus:

With an average speed of under 170kph, engine maps are designed to target driveability through the lower revs. Of the 23 corners, ten are taken in second or first, seven in third and only one is taken in fourth gear, which means that the engine is working at between 8,000rpm and 13,000rpm for the majority of the corner apexes and exits.


Renault powered teams should have an edge

#26 Disgrace

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:14

I like this venue, and the start of the final flyaways is my favourite part of the championship. :up:

#27 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:20

I like this venue, and the start of the final flyaways is my favourite part of the championship. :up:

I like it, too. Its the only real 'classic'-style street track on the calendar discounting Monaco and the cars look great under the lights. Hasn't been a bad track for action, either.

#28 slmk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:22

Then what about Hungary? They won it from pole to flag on medium and soft tyres.

McLaren is the fastest car on all types of circuits in all sessions of the weekend by winning the last 3 different races from pole. An all-around car that is: fast on high-downforce, fast on low-downforce, fast in quali trim and fast in race trim. If that's not the definition of a fastest car, I don't know what is.


You are kidding yourself if you think McLaren was faster than Lotus that weekend. Lotus doesn't have 1-lap pace as good as McLaren but they more than made it up in the race.

#29 Seanspeed

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:25

You are kidding yourself if you think McLaren was faster than Lotus that weekend. Lotus doesn't have 1-lap pace as good as McLaren but they more than made it up in the race.

Well they finished behind Lewis, so I'd say they didn't make up for it.

#30 ali.unal

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:28

You are kidding yourself if you think McLaren was faster than Lotus that weekend. Lotus doesn't have 1-lap pace as good as McLaren but they more than made it up in the race.

Sorry, my bad. Lewis won it by not having the fastest car.

#31 BernieEc

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:28

Without the alternator issues ...I see the redbull at the sharp end along with Lotus.......track is similar to valencia.....I can't see pass the bulls

#32 Kvothe

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:32

Then what about Hungary? They won it from pole to flag on medium and soft tyres.

McLaren is the fastest car on all types of circuits in all sessions of the weekend by winning the last 3 different races from pole. An all-around car that is: fast on high-downforce, fast on low-downforce, fast in quali trim and fast in race trim. If that's not the definition of a fastest car, I don't know what is.


Yes but the point is that on the supersofts and softs the McLaren tends to be more tyre limited than either the lotus or the Red Bull, who both have excellent traction in slow corners.
In Hungary the Lotus was clearly able to get more out of the tyres and had Kimi qualified higher or not lost track position to Alonso at the start he would have had a great chance at winning the race.

I also don't think the last three races are really indicative, Red Bull had a good spree from Bahrain to Silverstone where they qualified on pole 4 times out of 6, won 3 races (should have won 4 but for Valencia) messed up tyre strategy at Canada and would have had a better result in Barcelona had they qualified better (Webber believes he could have got on the front row).

I think the same is happening for McLaren:

They always tend to run really well at Hungary considering they've won it 5 times in the last six years.

Spa they were the fastest car, but Vettel/Red Bull ran them close pacewise even if they never looked like challenging. Also Sauber qualifed just two tenths off McLaren but we never got to see their pace during the race.

Monza: Ferrari seemed the faster car, and in all likelihood would have qualified on pole, fighting through the field, and damage to the underbody of Alonso's cars prevented us seeing his true race pace and the Sauber was described by Peter Sauber as the fastest car today, after the race.

I really do think that the competitive order tends to change from track to track and is somewhat dependant on the tyres used. I also expect that while McLaren will be up there somewhere I don't expect them to be the fastest at every track coming up.

Edited by Kvothe, 17 September 2012 - 12:41.


#33 DarkknightRises

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:34

You are kidding yourself if you think McLaren was faster than Lotus that weekend. Lotus doesn't have 1-lap pace as good as McLaren but they more than made it up in the race.


Dont you read lewis 's interview after hungary??? He said that he purposely slow down to damage kimi's tyre...meaning he could go much faster which is evident as no matter how hard kimi tried to close the gap, lewis manage to pull out more to maintain the 1 sec gap to kimi!!



#34 BernieEc

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:37

Yes but the point is that on the supersofts and softs the McLaren tends to be more tyre limited than either the lotus or the Red Bull, who both have excellent traction in slow corners.
In Hungary the Lotus was clearly able to get more out of the tyres and had Kimi qualified higher or not lost track position to Alonso at the start he would have had a great chance at winning the race.

I also don't think the last three races are really indicative, Red Bull had a good spree from Bahrain to Silverstone where they qualified on pole 4 times out of 6, won 3 races (should have won 4 but for Valencia) messed up tyre strategy at Canada and would have had a better result in Barcelona had they qualified better (Webber believes he could have got on the front row).

I think the same is happening for McLaren:

They always tend to run really well at Hungary considering they've won it 5 times in the last six years.

Spa they were the fastest car, but Vettel/Red Bull ran them close pacewise even if they never looked like challenging Also Sauber qualifed just two tenths of McLaren but we never got to see their pace.

Monza: Ferrari seemed the faster car, and in all likelihood would have qualified on pole, fighting through the field, and damage to the underbody of Alonso's cars prevented us seeing his true race pace and the Sauber was described by Peter Sauber as the fastest car today, after the race.

I really do think that the competitive order tends to change from track to track and is somewhat dependant on the tyres used. I also expect that while McLaren will be up there somewhere I don't expect them to be the fastest at every track coming up.


Dare I say...spot on :up:

#35 DarkknightRises

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:38

In this type of street circuit, qualifying is very important!! Stuck behind dirty air will results in lower downforce getting through each corners and damage the tyre easily!! Dirty air play much important role as Singapore gp housed 23 corners!!

Mclaren will likely walk away again

#36 BernieEc

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:40

In this type of street circuit, qualifying is very important!! Stuck behind dirty air will results in lower downforce getting through each corners and damage the tyre easily!! Dirty air play much important role as Singapore gp housed 23 corners!!

Mclaren will likely walk away again


not if it rains!!

#37 FenderJaguar

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:41

3 in a row. Can't be the best car. However on a street circuit I expect Red Bull and Ferrari to be close.

#38 Disgrace

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:41

I really do think that the competitive order tends to change from track to track and is somewhat dependant on the tyres used. I also expect that while McLaren will be up there somewhere I don't expect them to be the fastest at every track coming up.


'Nuff said. We can only guess based on a previous set of conditions that suited the car on the day, a mixture of car/tyre/temperature/circuit, but they're seldom the same so it makes predicting the order almost impossible. It even changes from practice to qualifying and from qualifying to the race. I doubt that the teams themselves can predict their own form as the changes they make to their cars are relatively small in the bigger picture.

Edited by Disgrace, 17 September 2012 - 12:44.


#39 DarkknightRises

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:45

not if it rains!!


if it rains, ferrari will walk away easily LOL

and the title is alonso 's to lose

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#40 slmk

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:50

Sorry, my bad. Lewis won it by not having the fastest car.


Nice one. Lewis won thanks to the track characteristics. Nearly impossible to overtake unless you have a massive car advantage, which Lotus obviously didn't have.

#41 Raelene

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:54

nemtudom
It typically rains in the afternoon her moreso than the morning. I've been in Europe for last week so not sure what the pattern has been

#42 Deluxx

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 13:57

I'm predicting Sauber might pull something out of their sleeve possibly.

Should be a good race, hard to call until we see how these teams can work this season out on the track. Its hard to tell how they'll be @ Singapore just by previous race results...

#43 Vickyy

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 14:14

I'm predicting Sauber might pull something out of their sleeve possibly.

Should be a good race, hard to call until we see how these teams can work this season out on the track. Its hard to tell how they'll be @ Singapore just by previous race results...


Not sure if it will be Sauber's weekend, they were not that good in Valencia, which, IMO, has closest resemblance to Singapore.
Expect them to do wonders in Suzuka.

#44 pryanjack

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 15:43

I'll be there - all three days. Skies have been getting a little darker these past few days and some forecasts show showers on sat and sun evening but it can be so brief and localised here it is very hard to predict with certainty.

Walked by the pit area yesterday and was a hive of activity and drove along some of the circuit as lighting was being tested

#45 bauss

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 15:56

Dont really count Sauber here, their drivers wont be good enough to put the car near the frontrow, which u need to be to win.

If I remember the car was surprisingly very quick in the race in Monaco (watching live timing)...but the drivers didnt qualify well so it was irrelevant.

Same reason I suspect Lotus wont win too...though their car like the Sauber should be very strong.

Most likely btw Alonso and Ham...or Vettel if the Red Bull is very strong.

Not ruling out a shock result though.

Edited by bauss, 17 September 2012 - 15:59.


#46 jonpollak

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 16:49

Posted Image

Discuss...



Will do Richard...
That's a lovely aspect you posted from the top of the Stamford Hotel.
I bet it's taken from that bar up there on the 70th floor

I had a room on the 28th floor about 2 weeks after the first race there.

I'll be somewhere near Dulles airport for this years race...
Great huh..
Jp

#47 jeze

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 17:27

Alright it's raceweek again and we are heading to Singapore for round 14 of the 2012 Formula 1 world championship.

Ferrari is set to bring major updates but so are Mclaren and probably all the other top teams. Who will be the strongest next weekend?

Posted Image

Discuss...


I don't want to fall from that building :eek:

#48 Deluxx

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 17:43

I don't want to fall from that building :eek:


I wouldn't mind. The view is beautiful.


#49 Atreiu

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 17:48

If there ever was a time for a sudden Red Bull 1-2 to remind us who is who, this is it.
But something tells me they won't quite do it and the championship favourites will get the podium and step away form the rest.
SV, LH, FA?

edit: Singapore has been an instant hit for me. Slow, tough and bumpy and in a fantastic city (even though I haven't ben there yet, I trust the reports). It's on my must visit list.

Edited by Atreiu, 17 September 2012 - 17:55.


#50 Sakae

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 18:26

McLaren 1+2.

No. Lewis will yield to Michael just to show that he means business.