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Mercedes-Benz will join V8 supercars in 2013


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#1 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:38

Some key points:

  • Stone brothers racing and Erebus Australia will merge. Presumably Erebus will eventually buy the team in the longer term.
  • AMG customer racing division in Germany will prepare a derivative of the 6.3 L GT3-spec V8 for use. It will be reduced to 5.0L, 7500 rpm etc as with other v8 supercar engines.
  • There is no official involvement of Mercedes-Benz Australia. The team will be sponsored by a number of Mercedes-Benz dealers.
  • The E-class bodystyle will be fitted over the standardised car of the future chassis.
  • There will be at least three Mercedes cars at this point (notionally the SBR-prepared cars for Slade, van Gisbergen and Holdsworth). Maybe they will add some extra customer cars or support further teams later on?

The opposition of MB Australia is well known--naturally the removal of the turbos, 7 speeds, all wheel drive etc that the more sophisticated road going cousin has--and the possibility to be beaten by "lowly" Holdens or "HSVs" makes it a poor marketing fit in their opinion . It will be interesting to see how this deal goes and whether official support is gained later on.

The last Mercedes entry was a private C class during the Group A era. To the contrary it is their rivals, BMW, who are better known for their continuous involvement in Australian touring car racing through the 80s and 90s, winning the touring car championship in '87 and the Bathurst 1000 in '97.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 19 September 2012 - 06:49.


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#2 GSiebert

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:38

Nice :) Stoner Brothers is not a small team so hopefully they'll get some results.
With Nissan and Casey Stoner joining the series, I might watch it again in the future :drunk:

#3 teejay

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:28

Erebus Australia are spending big dollars running Mercs in a series that gets little viewing and value for money as is, so why not buy into an existing team with proven results using the brand they already run.

Great for the sport.

#4 teejay

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:29

https://www.facebook...ebrothersracing

Have laughed at angry bogans all day.

#5 Red17

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 10:46

[*]AMG customer racing division in Germany will prepare a derivative of the 6.3 L GT3-spec V8 for use. It will be reduced to 5.0L, 7500 rpm etc as with other v8 supercar engines.
[*]There is no official involvement of Mercedes-Benz Australia. The team will be sponsored by a number of Mercedes-Benz dealers.

So it's pretty much like the Arenna Focus. Hats off for braving new ground without the factory umbrella.

#6 krapmeister

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:10

Good on Erebus and Stone Brothers for trying to bring a bit of variety back into the class, but I do laugh at V8Supercars making a big deal about it when there is no official manufacturer involvement - basically a 'new' privateer team with a different bodyshell/engine combo...

#7 SonnyViceR

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:21

Good on Erebus and Stone Brothers for trying to bring a bit of variety back into the class, but I do laugh at V8Supercars making a big deal about it when there is no official manufacturer involvement - basically a 'new' privateer team with a different bodyshell/engine combo...


So... F1 media makes big deals about DRS zones and driver shoe sizes

Manufacturer involvement isn't necessity in touring car racing. And machinery wise it is not massively different from DTM where the cars are all using spec Dallaras under the hood... expect unlike in the German series the V8s are actual touring cars, not weird prototypes that have nothing in common with the road cars

Edited by SonnyViceR, 19 September 2012 - 11:22.


#8 kosmic33

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:34

So... F1 media makes big deals about DRS zones and driver shoe sizes

Manufacturer involvement isn't necessity in touring car racing. And machinery wise it is not massively different from DTM where the cars are all using spec Dallaras under the hood... expect unlike in the German series the V8s are actual touring cars, not weird prototypes that have nothing in common with the road cars

^This

Variety is the spice of life!

#9 krapmeister

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:54

So... F1 media makes big deals about DRS zones and driver shoe sizes

Manufacturer involvement isn't necessity in touring car racing. And machinery wise it is not massively different from DTM where the cars are all using spec Dallaras under the hood... expect unlike in the German series the V8s are actual touring cars, not weird prototypes that have nothing in common with the road cars


May not be a necessity but a successful touring car series without manufacturer support is few and far between. Which is why V8Supercars have been actively trying to find more manufacturers before the inevitable pull out of Ford. However a Mercedes badged team being on the grid is not down to V8Supercars and Mercedes wanting to be on the grid, but the persistence of Erebus Motorsport and the money they spend with AMG.

As for being touring cars, closer to real touring cars they may be than DTM but they are becoming more like a NASCAR/Silhouette series as well...



#10 SonnyViceR

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:00

Well I guess the closest thing we have to "actual touring car" right now is the S2000, but those cars are such dishwashers that you tend to wanna ignore them.

#11 teejay

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:01

There is nothing in common with a current V8 SC and its road going sibling bar the badge they stick on it anyhow.

#12 krapmeister

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:08

There is nothing in common with a current V8 SC and its road going sibling bar the badge they stick on it anyhow.


There's a bogan somewhere crying into his bourbon right now...

#13 teejay

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:25

I couldnt care less TBH - the racing is pretty good, and the coverage is ... okay.

#14 Red17

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 12:57

May not be a necessity but a successful touring car series without manufacturer support is few and far between.

However a Mercedes badged team being on the grid is not down to V8Supercars and Mercedes wanting to be on the grid, but the persistence of Erebus Motorsport and the money they spend with AMG.

I trust more a privateer that loves a brand and wants to race that brand rather than a brand that comes in god knows why and pulls the plug after a couple years.

#15 BellisEndis

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 13:07

Good on Erebus and Stone Brothers for trying to bring a bit of variety back into the class, but I do laugh at V8Supercars making a big deal about it when there is no official manufacturer involvement - basically a 'new' privateer team with a different bodyshell/engine combo...



AMG and Merc HQ are in on it so I would say there is some form of official manufacture support. Just Merc Aust didn't want to kick any money in and taken the high road, I also believe some local Merc dealers are supporting it tho..

Edited by BellisEndis, 19 September 2012 - 13:13.


#16 Zippel

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 22:59

Ford Australia have been making some utterly woeful decisions in the last 5 years. Just remember, they stopped supporting Triple 8 because they wanted to concentrate on two teams only and chose Stone Brothers over them! Now they only have their FPR brand which seems in love with the ****ed On Race Day philosophy. DJR are a lost cause while they continue to pander to the sons of old racing legends.

#17 clipper

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 23:53

Ford Australia have been making some utterly woeful decisions in the last 5 years. Just remember, they stopped supporting Triple 8 because they wanted to concentrate on two teams only and chose Stone Brothers over them! Now they only have their FPR brand which seems in love with the ****ed On Race Day philosophy. DJR are a lost cause while they continue to pander to the sons of old racing legends.



Even worse than that, Triple 8/Ford split was due to ford wanting their car to be blue rather than Silver/Red which is the colours of their primary sponsor Vodafone.

Edited by clipper, 19 September 2012 - 23:54.


#18 Ian G

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 00:56

Ford Australia have been making some utterly woeful decisions in the last 5 years.


Yeah,its obvious they are winding things down in Oz.

#19 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:24

Yeah,its obvious they are winding things down in Oz.


Why not?
Taurus as the volume large car for Aus/NZ markets and other markets (badged as the Falcon in Australia and New Zealand)
Assembly of RHD Mustangs for the global market (they keep saying there is not enough capacity in the US)
Assembly of LHD & RHD of a "Falcon Sport" for the global market - a 4 door version of the little Mustang (the little C63 AMG seems to sell alright! :cool: so why not a Ford)

Just got to get those yanks to engage their brains. ( I think they spent a whole lot moolah on keeping the Mustang as LHD only platform - morons :rolleyes: )

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 20 September 2012 - 01:24.


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#20 Brother Fox

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:27

There's a bogan somewhere crying into his bourbon right now...

hahahah

Just wait till they see a podium made up of Nissans and Mercs - Dazza and Shazza will be spewin'

#21 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 01:31

Even worse than that, Triple 8/Ford split was due to ford wanting their car to be blue rather than Silver/Red which is the colours of their primary sponsor Vodafone.

I think they have noticed that there is not a whole lot of relationship between v8 supercars and car sales.

IMO they just cannot convert HSV or SS buyers, it is virtually impossible. A lot of people who want an Aussie RWD car whether it be 6 or 8 cylinders, are just going to go straight to their Holden dealer, they just don't want a Ford. Whilst many people who just want "a passenger car" are still going straight to their local Toyota or maybe Mazda dealer (which ever is closer!).

Maybe they feel the latter are more susceptible to their marketing as the Fiesta, Focus etc are perfectly decent cars. While trying to increase XR8 or GT sales is almost a lost case maybe?

#22 Wuzak

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 02:21

Taurus as the volume large car for Aus/NZ markets and other markets (badged as the Falcon in Australia and New Zealand)


I hope they don't call it the Falcon here. Can't see them selling more Tauruses than Falcons anyway.

Don't forget that they are also axing the Territory, which is largely baaed on the Falcon. They'll replace that with the Escape, which already sells alongside the Territory, but not very well.



Assembly of RHD Mustangs for the global market (they keep saying there is not enough capacity in the US)


Is this definite?


Assembly of LHD & RHD of a "Falcon Sport" for the global market - a 4 door version of the little Mustang (the little C63 AMG seems to sell alright! :cool: so why not a Ford)


The Mustang was originally a 2 door sports version of the Falcon. If they do the 4 door then it stands to reason that they should call it Falcon. Thus they should call the Taurus a Taurus in Australia.

btw, I believe the Falcon has a better chassis than the current Mustang. Not sure if the next Mustang will be improved that much either.


Just got to get those yanks to engage their brains. ( I think they spent a whole lot moolah on keeping the Mustang as LHD only platform - morons :rolleyes: )


Not exactly. They didn't spend money on making it RHD.





#23 lbennie

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 05:13

who's that fine looking lady in autosport article photo?



#24 king_crud

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 09:04

The last Mercedes entry was a private C class during the Group A era.


Phil Ward ran Mercedes in the Australian 2 litre championship in the mid 90s, not sure if he also entered them when the V8s and 2 litres ran together

#25 HoldenRT

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 10:13

hahahah

Just wait till they see a podium made up of Nissans and Mercs - Dazza and Shazza will be spewin'

Hahahaha fair dinkum..

#26 Zippel

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 23:54

Even worse than that, Triple 8/Ford split was due to ford wanting their car to be blue rather than Silver/Red which is the colours of their primary sponsor Vodafone.


I still have a hard time believe that leaked email to Ford employees was real. I mean, if its real whoever is making the decisions clearly has no idea of history. One of Ford Australia's most famous racing cars is the red X series GTHO!

Edited by Zippel, 20 September 2012 - 23:57.


#27 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 00:23

One of Ford Australia's most famous racing cars is the red X series GTHO!

On the other hand you would call this blue:
Posted Image
:)

This is what Triple Eight did as a lowly midpack team with no manufacturer deal desperately trying to attract Ford support (Betta Electrical colours were actually yellow):
Posted Image

It's easy to see that 888 played a part in this to with the way their behavior changed so dramatically! Although on Ford's part it may, in hindsight, have been smarter to drop SBR and DJR, and keep 888 on--even if they had to pay more money for less signage. Unfortunately Ford took into consideration the lower proportion of sponsorship that SBR had from other sponsors and the difficulty it would create for SBR I think.

#28 Zippel

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 00:47

On the other hand you would call this blue:
Posted Image
:)


The best looking HRT car to date :up:

This is what Triple Eight did as a lowly midpack team with no manufacturer deal desperately trying to attract Ford support (Betta Electrical colours were actually yellow):
Posted Image


Not really, many of the Ford teams back then were getting money from the manufacturer including Steve Ellery's Super Cheap team. Betta Electrical always had blue in their logos and on the car, maybe not as much previously as say 2006 but still...

It's easy to see that 888 played a part in this to with the way their behavior changed so dramatically! Although on Ford's part it may, in hindsight, have been smarter to drop SBR and DJR, and keep 888 on--even if they had to pay more money for less signage. Unfortunately Ford took into consideration the lower proportion of sponsorship that SBR had from other sponsors and the difficulty it would create for SBR I think.


The thing is though Vodafone were paying a lot of money for their signs on the car and Ford still had the blue sign on the windscreen and badge. Whatever their behaviour, it can be justified due to their winning Bathursts and the championships whilist retaining two stars of the sport in Lowndes and Whincup. They were at the front showing off more blue than any other Ford team at the time. Ford were banking on the idea that Triple 888 were still going to be driving in a Ford shell for a number of years but didn't expect Holden to dump recently acquired tax payers money on their doorstep.

DJR was one of the other teams that were initally dumped from factory support but started getting money again when James Courtney was winning.

#29 TC3000

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:19

This is what Triple Eight did as a lowly midpack team with no manufacturer deal desperately trying to attract Ford support (Betta Electrical colours were actually yellow):
Posted Image

It's easy to see that 888 played a part in this to with the way their behavior changed so dramatically! Although on Ford's part it may, in hindsight, have been smarter to drop SBR and DJR, and keep 888 on--even if they had to pay more money for less signage. Unfortunately Ford took into consideration the lower proportion of sponsorship that SBR had from other sponsors and the difficulty it would create for SBR I think.


Well the sign/logo on the sunstrip in this photo will tell you, that they already had Ford backing at this time, therefore I'm not sure your "desperately trying to attract Ford backing" statement holds much water.
AFAIK the only "Ford" team at the time without backing was WPS, later Ford "lost" some other teams like BJR due to an lack of or unwillingness to fund teams outside the FPR/SBR duo.

If you look at the color scheme of some of the SBR cars, there was not that much "blue" either, so I think the T8 Vodafone paint scheme argument is a bit lame.
Ford just did not had / or did not wanted to spend the money, so why would someone in his right mind pass up the Vodafone money for some scraps from Ford.
Ford just wanted to burn their money in the FPR "black hole" - fair enough.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Anyway, In the context of this thread, will be interesting to see how that will pan out.
I think there will be some "challenges" on the engine and aero parity side of things with Nissan and MB/AMG entering the picture, especially given the tight time frame and setup of the later project.
Let's wait and see, when the first will start crying "Wolf" and claim that one or the other has a "unfair" advantage.
It will become more difficult for V8SC'S to try an keep a leveled playing field with the vastly different (engine)concepts, but all in all, I think it is good for the sport.
If the SBR/AMG deal works out alright, it may proves a sensible way forward for other teams/manufacturers as well, and could be replicated for the future.
I think the economic realities are just that no single manufacturer will be able to support 1/2 of the field in the future, and while it worked out o.k. for many years, the whole Holden vs. Ford thing has become a bit "long in the tooth" over the years.

So, all the best to the Stones, I hope it works out for them o.k., and that they are not left with the ashes after 1 or 2 years.
Will be an interesting season to follow



#30 Alfisti

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:49

It's all getting a bit silly tbh. There are two camps of idiots, 1) those who think it is still Holden vs Ford and 2) Those who yearn for the good old days of Group A with a ton of manufacturers.

1) It's all but the same car, the whole manufacturer thing is all but dead.

2) Real manufacturer battles ALWAYS end in tears cos someone throws STAGGERING amounts of cash at it and turns it into a shot storm of an arms race. Great while it lasts but it never lasts long. Races were usually boring too as one car dominates and all that happens is everyone goes out and buys said car. Dick johnson drove a pommie mobile ffs, so did brock of all ****ing people.

The truth is, the current format has had an uber successful 20 years, adding nissan and merc now seems a tad pointless with TCOT coming onboard but I suppose it keeps some people thinking the cars are different.

Holden won, it beat Ford, beat Ford to death both on the track and in the showroom. The VN Commodore and EB falcon was the beginning of the end. Even at the track there's no hate, no spite like there was cos deep down people know one horse is dead.

It's now team versus team not manufacturer vs manufacturer.

#31 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:20

Well the sign/logo on the sunstrip in this photo will tell you, that they already had Ford backing at this time, therefore I'm not sure your "desperately trying to attract Ford backing" statement holds much water.

They didn't have any Ford backing in 2003 is what I am referring to. Next thing you know they have a little deal and they decide to paint their whole garage blue (to be fair they did change it back to silver the next year) but still! :)

#32 MalcolmC

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:48

who's that fine looking lady in autosport article photo?


Betty Klimenko
http://www.theaustra...9-1226477591067

#33 packapoo

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:44

I think we're all getting too excited and reading too much into the 'Merc' involvement.

#34 Jimisgod

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 10:55

Schumacher at Bathurst :love: :eek:

#35 kosmic33

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 12:33

Schumacher at Bathurst :love: :eek:

He'd get cleaned......

#36 PassWind

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 12:47

Schumacher at Bathurst :love: :eek:


If he won't do ovals he won't do the mountain, and really he has nothing left to prove even though your proposition was tongue in cheek....


#37 krapmeister

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 14:29

I think we're all getting too excited and reading too much into the 'Merc' involvement.


Not me... :wave:

#38 BRG

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 16:45

Schumacher at Bathurst :love: :eek:

You mean Ralf, I presume?

#39 Jimisgod

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 17:25

You mean Ralf, I presume?


Nah, we already have the position of 'useless international driver who will stuff it in the wall' covered by Klein.