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Jenson vs Lewis - 2012 Scorecard - Part III


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#651 karlth

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:46

But qualifying doesn't account for 90% of a GP, it accounts for about 10%.


Perhaps in the 1960s and 70s. Anyway you would only have a point if Button was quicker in races than Hamilton but he isn't, so you don't.

Edited by karlth, 05 October 2012 - 10:47.


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#652 BernieEc

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:49

Its hidden in plain sight I guess.

Put it this way, 90% of pro-Hamilton posts focus on his raw pace, the fact he is the faster qualifier. 12-2 or whatever it is. He must be so much better than Button then...
But qualifying doesn't account for 90% of a GP, it accounts for about 10%. Its just a component. And as you will no doubt have realised, F1 is a compromise between raw pace and race pace.
F1 is a series of motor RACES where the object of the exercise is to be fast, smart, agile and there at the end to pick up points.
I think some people just don't get how this "gulf in class" on a Saturday is not there on a Sunday.
If you can't see it, little point explaining it, I guess.

ps. I think Hamilton is a fantastic driver.


Pole positions counts for 57% of race wins this year (it would have been 72% if vettel and Hamilton didn't DNFs at valencia and singapore)...as I said above...it is the single most important skill a driver can bring to the table that gives a notable advantage on race day.

#653 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 10:50

Am not sure why this arguement always rages ......I know some don't like Hamilton and prefer Button (thats understable and everyone has their preferences) but you shouldn't blindly deny the fact that Hamilton is more naturally gifted than button (My opinion...before u bite my head off)

Ask yourselves if you were forced to bet who would you put your money on. Button has certainly tried and has in no way been totally outshined by LH and that is credit to his dedication and the ability to seize his opportunities when he see's them.......but he is still not as good as Hamilton.....


I agree Hamilton is more "naturally gifted" but I just don't place as much importance as you on that being the be all and end all of being the best driver.
If the only object of the exercise was to see who was the fastest over a lap, Hamilton is the best, no question. But it is not the sport they are in.
I love F1 because it is complex sport and a far bigger question is asked of the drivers than, whose the fastest.


#654 robefc

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:18

But I really don't think Hamiltion's 2010 campaign is anything to be proud about if you think about it...


I thought he was the best driver that year, a smidgen ahead of alonso although no problem with people switching those results as long as the gap is still a smidgen.

Rash error of judgement in Monza and a racing incident in singapore, couple of mistakes that likely lost him no points in korea and brazil as alonso was quicker in the ferrari and at that point, as jenson was proving, the macca was a very difficult car to drive.

Other than that sustained, consistent high performance in my view, robbed of his best performance in spain 2 laps from the end and hungary was going well too (I'm not about to complain that he would have won without those issues, clearly vettel had more).

He got a little lucky with his off in Spa mind.

#655 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:19

Okay, how about this: If anyone can show me how Hamilton should not have 60 odd more points, I'll quit the forums and never come back. You can IP ban me.


Hamilton shouldn't have 60 more points (in 2012) because just like for every other driver mechanical, strategic and racing, shit happens. Apply a rework to Hamilton, you have to do it for every other driver too. Close the door gently on the way out.

#656 gricey1981

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:25

I agree Hamilton is more "naturally gifted" but I just don't place as much importance as you on that being the be all and end all of being the best driver.
If the only object of the exercise was to see who was the fastest over a lap, Hamilton is the best, no question. But it is not the sport they are in.
I love F1 because it is complex sport and a far bigger question is asked of the drivers than, whose the fastest.


Good point - After all how can Button be so close in points after 3 years. There's only so many meals you can take your mechanics out too.

I think though that Hamilton needs to mature just a tad and once (albeit hopefully) he does that he will have Buttons consistency.

In the end you cant make Button faster, but Hamilton can get more consistant.

#657 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:29

If you can prove me wrong in my assertion that he should be 60 odd extra points ahead, I will quit here forever.


Take Barcelona. It is just such an incredible leap of logic (not to mention simplistic) to say, well if he hasn't been under-fuelled, he would have started on pole, so he WOULD HAVE WON = +25 points.




#658 PretentiousBread

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:39

They both "challenged" in 2010. Neither won. Hamilton took his realistic challenge ONE race further than Button and if you factor in that Button was brand new to the team that year, I'd call that a pretty close level of performance and no more than a "cherry picked" stat by you to create a misleading impression - that apparently 'annoys you' terribly when the shoe is on the other foot.

IF you are seriously counting 2012 as a challenge for Hamilton then Button's in 2011 was too. Button, after all, finished 2nd in the standings.

In pure performance terms, the BEST performances by the drivers in their 3 years together are Buttons 2011 campaign and Hamiltons 2012 campaign - I don't think there can be much doubt there. I'd give Hamilton 2012 as the best of the lot. No problem with that. But I really don't think Hamiltion's 2010 campaign is anything to be proud about if you think about it...


Asides from a couple of good tyre calls in the first batch of flyaways for JB, after that Hamilton went on a run of 9 consecutive races finishing ahead of Button; Spain, Monaco, Turkey, Canada, Valencia, Silverstone, Hockenheim, Hungary, Spa. I wouldnt call that a close level of performance at all.


#659 BernieEc

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:42

Good point - After all how can Button be so close in points after 3 years. There's only so many meals you can take your mechanics out too.

I think though that Hamilton needs to mature just a tad and once (albeit hopefully) he does that he will have Buttons consistency.

In the end you cant make Button faster, but Hamilton can get more consistant.


I agree. He does have a tendency to be childish but am also hoping he outgrows it. Bar telemetry tweets he seems to be quite focused this year......

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#660 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:43

Pole positions counts for 57% of race wins this year (it would have been 72% if vettel and Hamilton didn't DNFs at valencia and singapore)...as I said above...it is the single most important skill a driver can bring to the table that gives a notable advantage on race day.


Its the wrong stat entirely. Looking at the average conversion rate for all drivers combined, for one scenario, is not going to identify the superior race performance of individual drivers is it!

What you need to do is take every drivers average starting position and finishing position. Then you will see that some drivers are +/- the average race performance.

#661 Lazy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:45

Good point - After all how can Button be so close in points after 3 years. There's only so many meals you can take your mechanics out too.

I think though that Hamilton needs to mature just a tad and once (albeit hopefully) he does that he will have Buttons consistency.

In the end you cant make Button faster, but Hamilton can get more consistant.


True, but will probably have to sacrifice a little pace in the process.

#662 light

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:51

i always find it interesting how uncomfortable they seem together in interviews...not so much from Lewis's side but from Button for sure. Watch Button whenever lewis starts to speak and he always gets this look of disdain written all over his face kinda like an older brother that just wants his kid brother to shut the hell up!
Its true that they certainly have a different outlook on life and Jenson is the more mature of the two and i think the conflict between them simply comes from the fact they don't really have that much in common..its a little awkward. Both are great drivers by the way, im just commenting on their differing personalities.

#663 PretentiousBread

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 11:57

Take Barcelona. It is just such an incredible leap of logic (not to mention simplistic) to say, well if he hasn't been under-fuelled, he would have started on pole, so he WOULD HAVE WON = +25 points.


Sorry, but it doesn't take an incredible leap of logic to acknowledge that whilst we can never be sure of the exact amount of points lost, it almost certainly had a considerable negative affect on Hamilton's points total, irrespective of exact amounts. Like if someone goes through a season with 20 blown engines in 20 races, then someone turns around and says 'oh but you don't know that they would have finished where they qualified, they might have crashed and DNFed!'. . Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Hamilton has lost out IN ALL PROBABILITY considerably more points than JB has this year through operational cockups/unreliability. Just because we can't be sure of the exact amount doesn't mean you can just dismiss it altogether, that's ridiculous.

#664 light

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:03

Sorry, but it doesn't take an incredible leap of logic to acknowledge that whilst we can never be sure of the exact amount of points lost, it almost certainly had a considerable negative affect on Hamilton's points total, irrespective of exact amounts. Like if someone goes through a season with 20 blown engines in 20 races, then someone turns around and says 'oh but you don't know that they would have finished where they qualified, they might have crashed and DNFed!'. . Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Hamilton has lost out IN ALL PROBABILITY considerably more points than JB has this year through operational cockups/unreliability. Just because we can't be sure of the exact amount doesn't mean you can just dismiss it altogether, that's ridiculous.

i agree totally and personally i believe Hamilton is the beter of the 2 drivers...but f1 is a funny animal, good luck, bad luck, operational errors, driver errors etc....Lewis has performed better this year but the crazy thing is that Button could still easily finish in front of him this season with good driving and a little luck.
Ive noticed that i am crossing my fingers more and more hoping for things to run smoothly with every race now cos you just never know whats gonna happen.

#665 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:11

Sorry, but it doesn't take an incredible leap of logic to acknowledge that whilst we can never be sure of the exact amount of points lost, it almost certainly had a considerable negative affect on Hamilton's points total, irrespective of exact amounts. Like if someone goes through a season with 20 blown engines in 20 races, then someone turns around and says 'oh but you don't know that they would have finished where they qualified, they might have crashed and DNFed!'. . Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see Hamilton has lost out IN ALL PROBABILITY considerably more points than JB has this year through operational cockups/unreliability. Just because we can't be sure of the exact amount doesn't mean you can just dismiss it altogether, that's ridiculous.


I'm not saying that.

#666 Gareth

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:25

just like for every other driver mechanical, strategic and racing, shit happens. [...] Close the door gently on the way out.


Never say never, because Rosberg is almost managing it and the 2 cars are opposite ends of the spectrum right now.

Button 119 pts
Rosberg 93 pts.

Given the season Button has had with his set-up holiday, retirements and we have a 3rd of the season to go, and he's still head by a race win, your point is???

Close the door gently on the way out ...

#667 mlsnoopy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 12:53

Hamilton shouldn't have 60 more points (in 2012) because just like for every other driver mechanical, strategic and racing, shit happens. Apply a rework to Hamilton, you have to do it for every other driver too. Close the door gently on the way out.


To whom. Not to Button. Button has acctualy been helped massivly by the team over the past 3 years.

#668 inca_roads

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:04

Good point - After all how can Button be so close in points after 3 years. There's only so many meals you can take your mechanics out too.

I think though that Hamilton needs to mature just a tad and once (albeit hopefully) he does that he will have Buttons consistency.

In the end you cant make Button faster, but Hamilton can get more consistant.


Hamilton has been the most consistant driver on the grid this season (edit, ok - equal most with Alonso). No mistakes, consistantly fast in races, 10 times on the front row of the grid in 14 races.

I don't see what more he could do in this regard.

Edited by inca_roads, 05 October 2012 - 14:09.


#669 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:14

Given the season Button has had with his set-up holiday, retirements and we have a 3rd of the season to go, and he's still head by a race win, your point is???

Close the door gently on the way out ...


Are you trolling?

The first was a response to the question "why shouldn't Hamilton (only) have 60 more points (relative to the others)". My answer was that, because its not 60 points when you consider that every driver also has a claim to points factoring (e.g. its all very well giving Hamilton his points back for his Valencia crash, but Vettel retired from the lead). Please let me know if you have a problem with that.

The second was a response to someone saying that because Rosberg nearly has the same number of points as Jenson, he's performed nearly as well. My response was that (as above) you need to factor in points lost and in Jenson's case its significant. I never put a total on it, got specific, or claimed a fact. Please let me know if you have a problem with that.

Ergo, I have never ever said that points factoring is not valid, I exchanged a long passage of views on this with Rob a few weeks ago. My issue has only ever been the objectivity of a fan of driver A only considering it for driver A and that it is an inexact science.

I am sure you know this. This is also not the first time you have tried to mislead regarding that Rosberg post. Now you've tried to shoehorn in another quote as a contradiction, when clearly it isn't. Basically, you should know better than to hold grudges and try to score points.

#670 Rinehart

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:16

To whom. Not to Button. Button has acctualy been helped massivly by the team over the past 3 years.


So you are actually saying that whereas Hamilton should definately have 60 more points, Button has got MORE points than he should have!

Just wow. :eek:

Gareth, do you follow now?

#671 Dick_Dastardly

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:20

Interestingly enough if you just look at race finishes, ignoring those results where either DNF'ed, then across the 3 seasons to date, Lewis has finished ahead of Jenson 25 to 15, a clear margin which implies he is the superior driver ignoring issues like reliability,accidents caused other drivers, brainfades etc.

Of course you can argue that DNFs should be included and are part & parcel of race results and then the gap to Lewis closes but still in his favour, 29 races to 23. Using the latter as a comparison, that suggests to even remain remotely competitive Jenson has to rely on Lewis not finishing races due to mechanical failures, accidents, the fickle finger of fate or whatever.

Looking forward to see the final score, which I strongly suspect will be skewed in favour of Lewis.....



#672 robefc

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:25

Are you trolling?

The first was a response to the question "why shouldn't Hamilton (only) have 60 more points (relative to the others)". My answer was that, because its not 60 points when you consider that every driver also has a claim to points factoring (e.g. its all very well giving Hamilton his points back for his Valencia crash, but Vettel retired from the lead). Please let me know if you have a problem with that.


If only someone, somewhere had done a comparison for all drivers at once...:p

#673 senna da silva

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:28

I'm looking forward to see how the final six races plays out between the two, in my mind Lewis is clearly superior but it'll be interesting to see how professional McLaren, Jenson and Lewis are in these final races. Any hint of foul play and this place will explode.

#674 Lazy

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 14:33

I'm looking forward to see how the final six races plays out between the two, in my mind Lewis is clearly superior but it'll be interesting to see how professional McLaren, Jenson and Lewis are in these final races. Any hint of foul play and this place will explode.


Fingers crossed :D

#675 OoxLox

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 15:44

I haven't posted in this thread much as it's a pretty daft and overly-passionate one a lot of the time, but it's been a huge amount of fun reading the exchanges between the most vociferous posters (my hat's off to you bunch of nutters ;) ) :clap:

Maybe as the season winds down and the thread becomes ever more obsolete, the two camps can find some sort of middle ground? How about all the LH fans admitting Button is an excellent driver and much better than a lot of us gave him credit for in 2009, and all the JB fans admit Hamilton is marginally the better of the two? Seems like this epic thread and its predecessors deserves a better finish than to fizzle out in bitterness and unfinished arguments. After all, it's here in honour of one of the most entertaining intra-team battles of the last decade so we've all benefitted from those two guys being in the same team.

We could even have a poll. Just a thought.

Edited by OoxLox, 05 October 2012 - 15:45.


#676 BillBald

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 16:03

I'm looking forward to see how the final six races plays out between the two, in my mind Lewis is clearly superior but it'll be interesting to see how professional McLaren, Jenson and Lewis are in these final races. Any hint of foul play and this place will explode.


And that includes imaginary foul play, of course. :)



#677 senna da silva

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 16:33

And that includes imaginary foul play, of course. :)


:lol: :up:

#678 fieraku

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 17:59

They both "challenged" in 2010. Neither won. Hamilton took his realistic challenge ONE race further than Button and if you factor in that Button was brand new to the team that year, I'd call that a pretty close level of performance and no more than a "cherry picked" stat by you to create a misleading impression - that apparently 'annoys you' terribly when the shoe is on the other foot.

IF you are seriously counting 2012 as a challenge for Hamilton then Button's in 2011 was too. Button, after all, finished 2nd in the standings.


In pure performance terms, the BEST performances by the drivers in their 3 years together are Buttons 2011 campaign and Hamiltons 2012 campaign - I don't think there can be much doubt there. I'd give Hamilton 2012 as the best of the lot. No problem with that. But I really don't think Hamiltion's 2010 campaign is anything to be proud about if you think about it...

WOW! Talk about a biased post. :drunk:

2011 Vettel already had a 100pts lead by race 7-8 and the RB7 was in a class of its own. Button was NEVER in anything,actually HAM was leading him way into the season.

2012 Has 7 winners in 7 races was it,top teams within thousands of e/o,top12-14 within hundreds,HAM has been contending EVERY race,Button was racing Heikki and Pedro for some time........something Hamilton never did in 2011......his problems were (well known) by now,but he never went midfield like Button.

2010 Not even worth debating,Button was nowhere near HAM nor the title challenge.
And it also had huge gaps in performance amongst 1-2-3-4 so basically Button was guaranteed a top 4-5 grid position whereas now it a different story.


#679 P123

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 19:36

WOW! Talk about a biased post. :drunk:

2011 Vettel already had a 100pts lead by race 7-8 and the RB7 was in a class of its own. Button was NEVER in anything,actually HAM was leading him way into the season.

2012 Has 7 winners in 7 races was it,top teams within thousands of e/o,top12-14 within hundreds,HAM has been contending EVERY race,Button was racing Heikki and Pedro for some time........something Hamilton never did in 2011......his problems were (well known) by now,but he never went midfield like Button.

2010 Not even worth debating,Button was nowhere near HAM nor the title challenge.
And it also had huge gaps in performance amongst 1-2-3-4 so basically Button was guaranteed a top 4-5 grid position whereas now it a different story.


2012---- it's not over yet.

2011- LH started the season superbly well..... and then threw a flakey because the Red Bull was so fast and the McLaren wasn't a consistant challenger to it and lost focus. JB may not have been a WDC contender, but he turned into the closest challenger to Vettel and Red Bull.

2010- people take one error and one racing incident in two races and decide Hamilton was awful in 2010, which isn't really a justifiable standpoint. Only reliability thwarted a strong run of results in the first 13 races, before he made that error in Italy.



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#680 light

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 22:57

2012---- it's not over yet.

2011- LH started the season superbly well..... and then threw a flakey because the Red Bull was so fast and the McLaren wasn't a consistant challenger to it and lost focus. JB may not have been a WDC contender, but he turned into the closest challenger to Vettel and Red Bull.

thats right...Hamilton was performing well in 2011 and had Buttons number up until monaco when he pretty much lost the plot because it was seeing Vettel not Button running away with the championship that pushed him over the edge.....before that point Button wasn't even a factor to be honest. Lewis was looking very fast all weekend in monaco and if i remember rightly he was expected to challenge for pole until they messed up the strategy by not putting a banker in before a red flag (cant remember what the flag was for....sergio perez sideways into the wall?).
People give Button all this praise for outperforming Hamilton in 2011 but it was clear to see from monaco that it was Vettels dominance that really caused im to lose his cool while for the rest of the season Button was just there picking up the pieces on his glorious charge to 2nd place in the championship.

#681 light

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Posted 05 October 2012 - 23:23

thats right...Hamilton was performing well in 2011 and had Buttons number up until monaco when he pretty much lost the plot because it was seeing Vettel not Button running away with the championship that pushed him over the edge.....before that point Button wasn't even a factor to be honest. Lewis was looking very fast all weekend in monaco and if i remember rightly he was expected to challenge for pole until they messed up the strategy by not putting a banker in before a red flag (cant remember what the flag was for....sergio perez sideways into the wall?).
People give Button all this praise for outperforming Hamilton in 2011 but it was clear to see from monaco that it was Vettels dominance that really caused im to lose his cool while for the rest of the season Button was just there picking up the pieces on his glorious charge to 2nd place in the championship.

lol and then it was that crazy race in canada which was next when Hamilton was still clearly effected by the previous race and was pushing the car as hard as he could to try to at least make something happen when he tapped mark webber into a spin and then was taken out of the race by his teammate.....that must have got to him also, he was looking way faster than Button that day then his teammate went on to win arguably the most epic come from behind race in f1 history.....this is such a crazy sport but i love it!

#682 Lazy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 04:47

thats right...Hamilton was performing well in 2011 and had Buttons number up until monaco when he pretty much lost the plot because it was seeing Vettel not Button running away with the championship that pushed him over the edge.....before that point Button wasn't even a factor to be honest. Lewis was looking very fast all weekend in monaco and if i remember rightly he was expected to challenge for pole until they messed up the strategy by not putting a banker in before a red flag (cant remember what the flag was for....sergio perez sideways into the wall?).
People give Button all this praise for outperforming Hamilton in 2011 but it was clear to see from monaco that it was Vettels dominance that really caused im to lose his cool while for the rest of the season Button was just there picking up the pieces on his glorious charge to 2nd place in the championship.


If that's true then no wonder that McLaren would want to get rid of him, quite pathetic.

#683 teejay

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 04:52

If that's true then no wonder that McLaren would want to get rid of him, quite pathetic.


By whos standards?

#684 light

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:04

If that's true then no wonder that McLaren would want to get rid of him, quite pathetic.

its not pathetic at all...the difference between Button and Hamilton in 2011 is that button was content with 2nd place where as winning meant more to Hamilton than pretty much anyone else on the grid cos hes a born winner with great competitive spirit.

#685 Lazy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:04

By whos standards?


Your driver throws a hissy fit and sulks because the other team has a faster car? Most anyone's standards I would imagine.

I don't think it's true at all btw, I'm just saying if. Sometimes people are so desperate to put down Button they end up putting Lewis in a very bad light.

#686 Lazy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:07

its not pathetic at all...the difference between Button and Hamilton in 2011 is that button was content with 2nd place where as winning meant more to Hamilton than pretty much anyone else on the grid cos hes a born winner with great competitive spirit.


:D Yeah, a born winner who throws in the towel coz it's too difficult.

Really you guys :D

#687 light

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:07

its not pathetic at all...the difference between Button and Hamilton in 2011 is that button was content with 2nd place where as winning meant more to Hamilton than pretty much anyone else on the grid cos hes a born winner with great competitive spirit.

would you be happy with 2nd place? i certainly wouldn't and i would have probably started taking drastic measures to make things happen as well.

#688 light

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 05:09

:D Yeah, a born winner who throws in the towel coz it's too difficult.

Really you guys :D

what is it with you Button fans/Hamilton haters? what is so special about Button? Apart from canada last year Button has not achieved any kind of level of excitement in this sport...i just dont get it.

#689 PNSD

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:04

what is it with you Button fans/Hamilton haters? what is so special about Button? Apart from canada last year Button has not achieved any kind of level of excitement in this sport...i just dont get it.


You don't need to get it.

If you do not understand then we can not help you.

#690 Peter Perfect

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:06

what is it with you Button fans/Hamilton haters? what is so special about Button? Apart from canada last year Button has not achieved any kind of level of excitement in this sport...i just dont get it.

This just in...every driver on the grid has fans.

#691 Zoetrope

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:07

I got a post ready >>I hope we won't see any excuses this time. "Ham going to Mercedes, sabotaged". :lol: It's obvious Lewis is better qualifier, but this time he got his ass handed.<<. But then the yellow flags made me think for a second :drunk:

#692 Boxerevo

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:08

wow,you know you did bad when your mate still outqualify you with penalty.

Was just horrible,don't know about the yellow flag...but what a poor job.

#693 teejay

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:12

His first q3 lap was on old tyres

So -

1. less grip

2. he now starts on the worst tyres on the grid.



#694 jjcale

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:13

Waiting to see what happened why LH was so shite today ....

#695 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:14

Lewis had used tyres for his first run and for the second he got the yellow flags, so saying he got his ass handed is stretching the truth...

#696 Peter Perfect

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:16

Lewis had used tyres for his first run and for the second he got the yellow flags, so saying he got his ass handed is stretching the truth...


Well, it wasn't certain he'd have got pole with his aborted lap.

He wouldn't have got third. I was watching live timing, his first sector on his final lap was 0.2s down on Alonso and 0.1s down on Raikkonen already. Maybe he would have moved up a few places but there was something fundamentally wrong with his setup throughout qualifying.



#697 Lazy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:17

I'm looking forward to see how the final six races plays out between the two, in my mind Lewis is clearly superior but it'll be interesting to see how professional McLaren, Jenson and Lewis are in these final races. Any hint of foul play and this place will explode.



#698 Juggles

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:17

His first q3 lap was on old tyres

So -

1. less grip

2. he now starts on the worst tyres on the grid.


Moronic to even bother setting a lap on those tyres, he had no chance of being at the sharp end even on new tyres, what good was a lap on worn tyres going to do?

#699 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:21

Well, it wasn't certain he'd have got pole with his aborted lap.


Did I say something in that sense? I know he wouldn't have gotten pole, just that he would be way up the charts and he hasn't got his ass handed, like someone said in relation to button...

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#700 Kvothe

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 06:22

Moronic to even bother setting a lap on those tyres, he had no chance of being at the sharp end even on new tyres, what good was a lap on worn tyres going to do?


They weren't worn they'd only done an outlap sector 1 and (backing off) a slow sector 2 before he pitted

Edited by Kvothe, 06 October 2012 - 06:22.