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Jenson vs Lewis - 2012 Scorecard - Part III


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#851 Peter Perfect

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:15

No burtros Im not saying the BBC are racist im talking about some people in general , Some don't like lewis because he is black guy doing well in a white dominated sport if he was at the back of the grid people wouldn't give a damn, when he failed like last year there was alot of Hatred from the general public(more so british) , racist comments people saying he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for his race blah blah people loved seing him at his lowest , Racism is everywhere and always will be .

I must admit I hadn't seen anything like that. :eek: Where did it happen?

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#852 Burtros

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:15

No burtros Im not saying the BBC are racist im talking about some people in general , Some don't like lewis because he is black guy doing well in a white dominated sport if he was at the back of the grid people wouldn't give a damn, when he failed like last year there was alot of Hatred from the general public(more so british) , racist comments people saying he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for his race blah blah people loved seing him at his lowest , Racism is everywhere and always will be .


Interesting theory. Again, Ive not seen any evidence of it at all so would dispute it if I am honest. Anyway, its not relevant to the scorecard so lets leave it there.



#853 Sinceref189

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:18

Interesting theory. Again, Ive not seen any evidence of it at all so would dispute it if I am honest. Anyway, its not relevant to the scorecard so lets leave it there.


Ok Burtros :up:

#854 BillBald

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:40

Button set the fastest lap of the race after reporting the gearbox issue on lap 18 (1:38.953) so I see that as an excuse.


OK, it seems Jenson didn't have a problem with the gearbox, but he made that report on the radio to try to fool you - clearly he was wasting his time, because you're not easily fooled!!



#855 Clatter

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 21:54

No burtros Im not saying the BBC are racist im talking about some people in general , Some don't like lewis because he is black guy doing well in a white dominated sport if he was at the back of the grid people wouldn't give a damn, when he failed like last year there was alot of Hatred from the general public(more so british) , racist comments people saying he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for his race blah blah people loved seing him at his lowest , Racism is everywhere and always will be .


Can you give some examples of this racism?

#856 Rinehart

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:25

You miss the point. Hamilton had a shit race, but it doesn't excuse Button.
He was beat by Massa and Kobayashi. How often have both of them been genuinely faster than a McLaren through the race this year?

If it were a football match, Button would have beat Hamilton by an offsided own goal committed with foul, or something as clumsy as that.


I don't see how qualifying 3rd, dropping to 8th due to a penalty and recovering to 4th with a car clearly not at its best around Suzuka is anything to be ashamed about - talk about deflecting the attention. You seem to be talking as though the performance of the cars is in a fixed state for every race. Would love to hear your opinions on Hamiltion's pace at Valencia for example...

#857 Rinehart

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:37

Not sure why you think on current form JB is going to beat Lewis unless 'current' means last race?

Before that I think lewis has 2 wins and 2 no fault DNFs, one of which he was leading.


Since the summer break when JB has got on top of his set up issues and the car has improved:

Spa - Button quicker, Hamilton DNF 25-0
Monza - Hamilton quicker, Button DNF 25-25
Singapore - Hamilton quicker, Hamilton DNF 42-25
Suzuka - Button quicker 52-33

Just to be crystal, I'm not discrediting Hamilton. He deserves to be ahead at this stage (factoring the course of the seasons events).

I'm just saying that based on current form (inc reliability), its a distinct possibility that Button can overhaul Hamilton now. Again, I'm not saying he deserves to, I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I am saying that based on form, Button is right there with Hamilton now, over 4 races, not 1. Therefore what I am saying it if Hamilton goes to Mercedes beaten 2-1 by Button, that will leave an indelible mark on Hamiltons career, irrespective of the reasons and irrespective of what he goes on to achieve. Does that sound like a fair observation? I think Hamilton has this to fight for for the remainder of the season and I am interested to see how it pans out.



#858 Atreiu

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:37

I don't see how qualifying 3rd, dropping to 8th due to a penalty and recovering to 4th with a car clearly not at its best around Suzuka is anything to be ashamed about - talk about deflecting the attention. You seem to be talking as though the performance of the cars is in a fixed state for every race. Would love to hear your opinions on Hamiltion's pace at Valencia for example...



Obviously it's not fixed, but it's one thing to see the balance swing between McLaren and Red Bull from track to track and another to suddenly see two drivers who have hardly troubled McLaren all year long suddenly beat them straight away without any freakish weather or SC comming from nowhere in the middle of pit stops windows.

Anyhow, as far as the scorecard go, Button beat Hamilton clearly, even if not beautifully. Which worries me because Hamilton doesn't have the time or the points to spare in the title fight.

#859 Rinehart

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 08:58

Don't try and say that Racism doesn't exist he is a high profile black man in a white dominated sport , Eyes are always on him just like the two sports stars i mention, if u can't accept that then you come across as ignorant.


I'm pretty sure that Lewis was trending as social fool of the day yesterday, because of what he DID, not because of his parentage.
The guy is a professional sportsman and is supossed to be building an intimidating aura just like Senna did.
Instead of that the likes of Alonso, JB and Vettel probably just look at him and giggle.

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#860 gricey1981

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:00

Since the summer break when JB has got on top of his set up issues and the car has improved:

Spa - Button quicker, Hamilton DNF 25-0
Monza - Hamilton quicker, Button DNF 25-25
Singapore - Hamilton quicker, Hamilton DNF 42-25
Suzuka - Button quicker 52-33

Just to be crystal, I'm not discrediting Hamilton. He deserves to be ahead at this stage (factoring the course of the seasons events).

I'm just saying that based on current form (inc reliability), its a distinct possibility that Button can overhaul Hamilton now. Again, I'm not saying he deserves to, I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I am saying that based on form, Button is right there with Hamilton now, over 4 races, not 1. Therefore what I am saying it if Hamilton goes to Mercedes beaten 2-1 by Button, that will leave an indelible mark on Hamiltons career, irrespective of the reasons and irrespective of what he goes on to achieve. Does that sound like a fair observation? I think Hamilton has this to fight for for the remainder of the season and I am interested to see how it pans out.


Man its a leap to have JB finishing ahead of Hamilton this year..... it really is. you cant really use those races as the none of the DNFs have been the drivers fault bar Button overusing his fuel pump at Monza! :)

Fact is JB hasnt really had the best year and its his third year of partnership with Mclaren. He has had the same # of poles as Rosberg has. If not for Hamilton taking all the press surely some questions need to be asked of Buttons year, especially his poor qualifying performances.

chances are it will be 2 - 1 to Hamilton at the end of the year.

Im really interested to see jenson against Sergio. Its almost expected for Hamilton to be beating him.

Edited by gricey1981, 09 October 2012 - 09:02.


#861 Lazy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:14

Man its a leap to have JB finishing ahead of Hamilton this year..... it really is. you cant really use those races as the none of the DNFs have been the drivers fault bar Button overusing his fuel pump at Monza! :)

Fact is JB hasnt really had the best year and its his third year of partnership with Mclaren. He has had the same # of poles as Rosberg has. If not for Hamilton taking all the press surely some questions need to be asked of Buttons year, especially his poor qualifying performances.

chances are it will be 2 - 1 to Hamilton at the end of the year.

Im really interested to see jenson against Sergio. Its almost expected for Hamilton to be beating him.


This is Lulu's special skill, he wins even when he loses :)

#862 ayanate

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:45

I'm pretty sure that Lewis was trending as social fool of the day yesterday, because of what he DID, not because of his parentage.
The guy is a professional sportsman and is supossed to be building an intimidating aura just like Senna did.
Instead of that the likes of Alonso, JB and Vettel probably just look at him and giggle.


Yes they giggle because they enjoy privileges that he can only dream of, being of a different hue. I'm fed up with people discounting the obvious in F1 and society at large. History will reveal all the battles that Hamilton has to contend with in his F1 career eventually. A driver called another a nutcase this last weekend and all the Hammy haters want to talk about is a 'disrespect' comment on Twitter that confirms to them that Hamilton is not intelligent.

Why is JB already following his future team mate Perez and never bothered to follow his current team mate since 2010? Says a lot about JB feelings towards Ham in my view, Hamilton knows exactly what he is doing with Twitter and all will be revealed in due time.

#863 ayanate

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 09:56

Since the summer break when JB has got on top of his set up issues and the car has improved:

Spa - Button quicker, Hamilton DNF 25-0
Monza - Hamilton quicker, Button DNF 25-25
Singapore - Hamilton quicker, Hamilton DNF 42-25
Suzuka - Button quicker 52-33

Just to be crystal, I'm not discrediting Hamilton. He deserves to be ahead at this stage (factoring the course of the seasons events).

I'm just saying that based on current form (inc reliability), its a distinct possibility that Button can overhaul Hamilton now. Again, I'm not saying he deserves to, I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I am saying that based on form, Button is right there with Hamilton now, over 4 races, not 1. Therefore what I am saying it if Hamilton goes to Mercedes beaten 2-1 by Button, that will leave an indelible mark on Hamiltons career, irrespective of the reasons and irrespective of what he goes on to achieve. Does that sound like a fair observation? I think Hamilton has this to fight for for the remainder of the season and I am interested to see how it pans out.


Qualifying is something like 38-15 to Hamilton and that tells me everything I need to know. Screw the points tally, that represents LH's frustration with Mclaren. He is clearly faster but they haven't allowed him to dominate because they always want to make sure JB stays even. Well done to JB for taking the team over, he knew all along he would pull it off; afterall, the other guy is half Grenadine. People can choose to discount this fact all they want, doesn't change our fundamental human nature for racial bias which is not to be mistaken to mean racism, let's be clear on this.

#864 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:14

Since the summer break when JB has got on top of his set up issues and the car has improved:

Spa - Button quicker, Hamilton DNF 25-0
Monza - Hamilton quicker, Button DNF 25-25
Singapore - Hamilton quicker, Hamilton DNF 42-25
Suzuka - Button quicker 52-33

Just to be crystal, I'm not discrediting Hamilton. He deserves to be ahead at this stage (factoring the course of the seasons events).

I'm just saying that based on current form (inc reliability), its a distinct possibility that Button can overhaul Hamilton now. Again, I'm not saying he deserves to, I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I am saying that based on form, Button is right there with Hamilton now, over 4 races, not 1. Therefore what I am saying it if Hamilton goes to Mercedes beaten 2-1 by Button, that will leave an indelible mark on Hamiltons career, irrespective of the reasons and irrespective of what he goes on to achieve. Does that sound like a fair observation? I think Hamilton has this to fight for for the remainder of the season and I am interested to see how it pans out.



You're saying a lot... :p

No completely fair, there's definitely a danger and the gap isn't very big regardless of one's opinion on why that is.

I don't think he's the type not to go for it in every race regardless so I'm not too concerned about that, much more concerned about all the variables that could trip him up, both outside of and within his control!


#865 glorius&victorius

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:15

Jenson vs. Lewis:

1,181,334 vs 1,131,143 twitter followers

JENSON WINS!!!

#866 Sinceref189

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:24

Qualifying is something like 38-15 to Hamilton and that tells me everything I need to know. Screw the points tally, that represents LH's frustration with Mclaren. He is clearly faster but they haven't allowed him to dominate because they always want to make sure JB stays even. Well done to JB for taking the team over, he knew all along he would pull it off; afterall, the other guy is half Grenadine. People can choose to discount this fact all they want, doesn't change our fundamental human nature for racial bias which is not to be mistaken to mean racism, let's be clear on this.

:up: Bingo if u saw the BBC forums when lewis was moving , the amount of hatred was digusting they were saying that now they can fully support a british driver instead of a half breed,there was 30+ likes on 3 coments about that. People don't see lewis a british they see him as a spoilt hip hop kid, they don't want to be associated with him , simple as that. JB is the image of britian and mclaren he represents a Andy Murray type of character for f1 people love him. Now the british public have turned there back on Lewis they will fully support JB because he reflects England.

#867 sofarapartguy

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:34

Qualifying is something like 38-15 to Hamilton and that tells me everything I need to know. Screw the points tally, that represents LH's frustration with Mclaren. He is clearly faster but they haven't allowed him to dominate because they always want to make sure JB stays even. Well done to JB for taking the team over, he knew all along he would pull it off; afterall, the other guy is half Grenadine. People can choose to discount this fact all they want, doesn't change our fundamental human nature for racial bias which is not to be mistaken to mean racism, let's be clear on this.


Holy...

Wanted to bold the most insane parts, but in the end the whole post would be bold that way.

#868 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:42

Holy...

Wanted to bold the most insane parts, but in the end the whole post would be bold that way.


I genuinely wonder if Lewis has people like that talking to him.

I bet Nicole isn't a great one for talking sense into him when he complains about button unfollowing him for example.

He, more than anyone, needs somebody sensible he can look up to and who can advise him

#869 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:44

Holy...

Wanted to bold the most insane parts, but in the end the whole post would be bold that way.


Glad it's not just me thinking that.

#870 light

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:49

Qualifying is something like 38-15 to Hamilton and that tells me everything I need to know. Screw the points tally, that represents LH's frustration with Mclaren. He is clearly faster but they haven't allowed him to dominate because they always want to make sure JB stays even. Well done to JB for taking the team over, he knew all along he would pull it off; afterall, the other guy is half Grenadine. People can choose to discount this fact all they want, doesn't change our fundamental human nature for racial bias which is not to be mistaken to mean racism, let's be clear on this.

I have to totally disagree with this.....JB took over the team because Lewis is Black? thats absolute rubbish! JB established himself well in the team because of the way he portrayed his personality over to the engineers and the rest of the team. Lewis was loved at mclaren there is no doubt about it but unfortunately for him the lack of maturity and personality within the team he has shown at times compared to his teammate is what made life more difficult for him and lets not forget. LEWIS LEFT MCLAREN-MCLAREN DID NOT LEAVE LEWIS!
The only racism i have seen towards Lewis from my own experience is from certain sections of the British public and also when i read about the stick he got from Italian and Spanish fans.

Edited by light, 09 October 2012 - 11:09.


#871 light

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:55

:up: Bingo if u saw the BBC forums when lewis was moving , the amount of hatred was digusting they were saying that now they can fully support a british driver instead of a half breed,there was 30+ likes on 3 coments about that. People don't see lewis a british they see him as a spoilt hip hop kid, they don't want to be associated with him , simple as that. JB is the image of britian and mclaren he represents a Andy Murray type of character for f1 people love him. Now the british public have turned there back on Lewis they will fully support JB because he reflects England.

yeah...some British fans are disgusting for sure but i like to give the majority of them the benefit of doubt cos most the people in British society are not racist bigots!

Edited by light, 09 October 2012 - 11:11.


#872 PARAZAR

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:55

Yes they giggle because they enjoy privileges that he can only dream of, being of a different hue. I'm fed up with people discounting the obvious in F1 and society at large. History will reveal all the battles that Hamilton has to contend with in his F1 career eventually. A driver called another a nutcase this last weekend and all the Hammy haters want to talk about is a 'disrespect' comment on Twitter that confirms to them that Hamilton is not intelligent.

Why is JB already following his future team mate Perez and never bothered to follow his current team mate since 2010? Says a lot about JB feelings towards Ham in my view, Hamilton knows exactly what he is doing with Twitter and all will be revealed in due time.


Jeez man, cut the drama!!! Lewis is a young, multi millionaire F1 driver and yet you speak of him like he's out on the streets fighting for basic human rights. He enjoys privileges that most of us here never will yet you act like it's an uphill battle for him having to single handedly fight against the unfairness of the world and society. The only battle here is with himself.

Edited by PARAZAR, 09 October 2012 - 10:57.


#873 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:55

Ok Burtros :up:

:up: Bingo if u saw the BBC forums when lewis was moving , the amount of hatred was digusting they were saying that now they can fully support a british driver instead of a half breed,there was 30+ likes on 3 coments about that. People don't see lewis a british they see him as a spoilt hip hop kid, they don't want to be associated with him , simple as that. JB is the image of britian and mclaren he represents a Andy Murray type of character for f1 people love him. Now the british public have turned there back on Lewis they will fully support JB because he reflects England.

Well that didn't last long did it?

#874 eronrules

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 10:59

the way things are going , this is what FIA will do when 2 drivers post the same quali time ... check their Tw@tter fan count ... :cool:


also, a new term should be coined ... home advantage, car advantage, track advantage and now ''Tw@tter advantage''

PS. forget Lewis being 12 year old primadonna ... this and lewis hamilton's thread are full of 10-11 year old girls bickering about Tw@tter, i thought we, here loved to talk about racing, not tw@tting.

#875 fed up

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:05

Qualifying is something like 38-15 to Hamilton and that tells me everything I need to know. Screw the points tally, that represents LH's frustration with Mclaren. He is clearly faster but they haven't allowed him to dominate because they always want to make sure JB stays even. Well done to JB for taking the team over, he knew all along he would pull it off; afterall, the other guy is half Grenadine. People can choose to discount this fact all they want, doesn't change our fundamental human nature for racial bias which is not to be mistaken to mean racism, let's be clear on this.


I'm sorry, I do not agree with this statement at all.

Lewis has been part of that team for the best part of 15 years - he is like a son to Ron and Martin, no way do they view him as half whatever - he is one of them.

Anyone who believes that Jenson has anywhere near as emotional a connection to Mclaren as Lewis, they are 100% deluded. Jenson is an employee, Lewis is like a son.

#876 stanga

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:32

Can you give some examples of this racism?


You didn't see the comments on his twitter account after Monaco 2011, I take it?

They were disgusting.

#877 Clatter

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:38

You didn't see the comments on his twitter account after Monaco 2011, I take it?

They were disgusting.


Nope, I don't bother to use twitter. I keep seeing comments about racism, but no one actually links to anything when asked.

#878 light

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:41

You didn't see the comments on his twitter account after Monaco 2011, I take it?

They were disgusting.

But you could say that about the comments below the videos of any high profile black person on youtube.....these closet racists do like to spew their vomit into discussion but its simply best to ignore them cos they are not a true representation of the majority of us true fans.

#879 ForzaGTR

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:46

Since the summer break when JB has got on top of his set up issues and the car has improved:

Spa - Button quicker, Hamilton DNF 25-0
Monza - Hamilton quicker, Button DNF 25-25
Singapore - Hamilton quicker, Hamilton DNF 42-25
Suzuka - Button quicker 52-33

Just to be crystal, I'm not discrediting Hamilton. He deserves to be ahead at this stage (factoring the course of the seasons events).

I'm just saying that based on current form (inc reliability), its a distinct possibility that Button can overhaul Hamilton now. Again, I'm not saying he deserves to, I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I am saying that based on form, Button is right there with Hamilton now, over 4 races, not 1. Therefore what I am saying it if Hamilton goes to Mercedes beaten 2-1 by Button, that will leave an indelible mark on Hamiltons career, irrespective of the reasons and irrespective of what he goes on to achieve. Does that sound like a fair observation? I think Hamilton has this to fight for for the remainder of the season and I am interested to see how it pans out.


Take away the DNF's for both drivers and Hamilton is ahead, your argument is flawed.

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#880 Buttoneer

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 11:48

There's no question that racism exists and I am sure that there were nasty comments on his twitter and I'm also sure that there are people who do not like him because of his skin colour.

Personally I have deleted posts and posters from here who have expressed racist views so don't think it's not happened here either.

The issue is the extent to whch this is being attributed to be a problem generally, a problem for him specifically, and particularly prevalent in the UK, according to Sinceref189 who appears to have all the evidence.

Either way, Sinceref189 can post his evidence in a new thread where we can discuss it as long as it relates to motorsport. It's not a topic suitable for a thread which seeks to evaluate the relative driver performance. If the new thread doesn't appear, it's all bollocks, but either way we can move on in this thread.

#881 robefc

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:13

Take away the DNF's for both drivers and Hamilton is ahead, your argument is flawed.


I think the argument is more that in the last 4 races they've been quicker 2 times each, arguably lewis further off jenson in spa and japan than vice versa. Therefore things are close between them now.

Seems pretty reasonable

#882 undercut

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:30

yes closer,but you dont all of a sudden become quicker than your team mate after being outqualified by him comfortably all season,and in every season.
and its strange because in previous seasons he's never really struggled with setup.and if he has he's still been quick.
lewis performances in japan havent been great since 2010.3 5ths in a row.
theres no way anyone can make me believe that if all of a sudden button starts outqualifying lewis,its all just completely normal.
lewis got pole in korea last season,so it'll be very odd if he struggles there.
lewis has lost alot of points for sure.maldo and roman taking him out.the underfuelling incident,and his last dnf.thats a massive amount of points lost.

#883 light

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:31

I think the argument is more that in the last 4 races they've been quicker 2 times each, arguably lewis further off jenson in spa and japan than vice versa. Therefore things are close between them now.

Seems pretty reasonable

The practice sessions in Spa were ruined by the rain and the general feeling was that Lewis was gonna be fast that weekend but unfortunately for him Button chose the superior set-up then Lewis was taken out by Grosjean before he even got to the first corner......personally i think that without the rain Lewis would have got the set-up right and beaten Button that day because previous to Spa in Hungary he dialled the car in and straight after Spa in monza and Singapore he dialled the car in also........but of course i can not say for sure cos it did rain and Lewis had a disaster of a weekend.

Edited by light, 09 October 2012 - 13:10.


#884 undercut

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:36

I think the argument is more that in the last 4 races they've been quicker 2 times each, arguably lewis further off jenson in spa and japan than vice versa. Therefore things are close between them now.

Seems pretty reasonable


well no not really when you look at the circumstances.
when jenson was quicker in spa,most ppl knew that lewis would out qualify jenson next time with the same wings.thats what happened twice in a row.
and we know that something strange was happening with lewis car in the last race.
i mean,he heard a clunk,then all of a sudden his car started handling properly.
we'll see what happens in korea anyway.
mclaren might have now decided to make sure jenson finishes the season on a high, rather than lewis.


#885 ayanate

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:36

I'm sorry, I do not agree with this statement at all.

Lewis has been part of that team for the best part of 15 years - he is like a son to Ron and Martin, no way do they view him as half whatever - he is one of them.

Anyone who believes that Jenson has anywhere near as emotional a connection to Mclaren as Lewis, they are 100% deluded. Jenson is an employee, Lewis is like a son.

Of course I don't expect you to agree, if you think that the playing field between LH and JB is level then you are the one who is 100% deluded, Hamilton really had to move on. Mclaren are not going to let him dominate JB, that much is obvious and this season proves it. Lewis has been near flawness in qualifying and racing, yet he is still scrambling to beat JB on points and that is totally the team's fault. Which other team would you see a 12-3 qualy deficit and the team mate at the wrong end is still considered an equal? Just imagine for a second that qualy was 12-3 to Jenson, I rest my case on that thought.

#886 ayanate

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:41

Of course I don't expect you to agree, if you think that the playing field between LH and JB is level then you are the one who is 100% deluded, Hamilton really had to move on. Mclaren are not going to let him dominate JB, that much is obvious and this season proves it. Lewis has been near flawness in qualifying and racing, yet he is still scrambling to beat JB on points and that is totally the team's fault. Which other team would you see a 12-3 qualy deficit and the team mate at the wrong end is still considered an equal? Just imagine for a second that qualy was 12-3 to Jenson, I rest my case on that thought.

I should have said 'contending team', I know some smartass is going to come up with the Caterhams as an example. :)

#887 Kvothe

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Posted 09 October 2012 - 12:58

Since the summer break when JB has got on top of his set up issues and the car has improved:

Spa - Button quicker, Hamilton DNF 25-0
Monza - Hamilton quicker, Button DNF 25-25
Singapore - Hamilton quicker, Hamilton DNF 42-25
Suzuka - Button quicker 52-33

Just to be crystal, I'm not discrediting Hamilton. He deserves to be ahead at this stage (factoring the course of the seasons events).

I'm just saying that based on current form (inc reliability), its a distinct possibility that Button can overhaul Hamilton now. Again, I'm not saying he deserves to, I'll reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I am saying that based on form, Button is right there with Hamilton now, over 4 races, not 1. Therefore what I am saying it if Hamilton goes to Mercedes beaten 2-1 by Button, that will leave an indelible mark on Hamiltons career, irrespective of the reasons and irrespective of what he goes on to achieve. Does that sound like a fair observation? I think Hamilton has this to fight for for the remainder of the season and I am interested to see how it pans out.


From you, it's incredibly fair.

#888 light

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 00:53

did anyone on here know that Lewis wanted the team to stop sharing his set-up information with Jenson? i just found out but i'm not surprised

'However, the tension between the pair stretches further back than that, with Button having been angered by Hamilton's earlier assertion that set-up information was not shared between the two sides of the McLaren garage.'

http://www1.skysport...cLaren-tension-

Apparently it came from the daily mail.

#889 TallyHo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:34

did anyone on here know that Lewis wanted the team to stop sharing his set-up information with Jenson? i just found out but i'm not surprised

'However, the tension between the pair stretches further back than that, with Button having been angered by Hamilton's earlier assertion that set-up information was not shared between the two sides of the McLaren garage.'

http://www1.skysport...cLaren-tension-

Apparently it came from the daily mail.

I suggest you read that quote again! Nowhere in that article does it mention Lewis not wanting to share Set-up info with Button. It clearly states that Button was angry at Hamilton's assertion that the two sides of garage weren't sharing Set-up info. This is most probably after Spa Quali.

#890 light

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 01:41

I suggest you read that quote again! Nowhere in that article does it mention Lewis not wanting to share Set-up info with Button. It clearly states that Button was angry at Hamilton's assertion that the two sides of garage weren't sharing Set-up info. This is most probably after Spa Quali.

ah gotcha! yes i misread it first time round though i'm not sure when this was cos it doesn't say in the article, it just says that it stretches further back.....so Lewis was paranoid that they weren't sharing...interesting.

#891 MP422

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:17

ah gotcha! yes i misread it first time round though i'm not sure when this was cos it doesn't say in the article, it just says that it stretches further back.....so Lewis was paranoid that they weren't sharing...interesting.


Lewis was upset cause the team share his setup data and then left him out to dry in spa with the wrong choice. It's a one way street in his eyes. That's not right. The point alot of people neglected to consider after twitter gate. Why would Lewis light up twitter with anger and frustration because "he" made a setup mistake... c'mon...


Mclaren lost there home grown ace, That right there tells it all.

#892 Force Ten

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 06:37

Lewis was upset cause the team share his setup data and then left him out to dry in spa with the wrong choice. It's a one way street in his eyes.

Well, JB's team had also Lewis' data in Canada. They just opted not to use it, and that is similar to Spa. Did Lewis and his team of engineers screw over JB then at Canada?

The data was shared. Lewis' team for whatever the reason simply opted not to use it.

#893 encircled

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:51

Button working to build McLaren team around him

Speaking to the Brazilian sports daily Lance!, Button said: “There are a lot of smart people in Formula One, which maybe is not so apparent from the outside.

“But it is a very competitive environment, and Fernando (Alonso) is one of those people.

“He’s been smart to build the (Ferrari) team around him, which is something we all strive for. I did it in my previous team (Honda/Brawn) and it’s happening here (McLaren) too,” said the 32-year-old.

Asked if he has taken another important step forwards with the impending departure of McLaren protege Hamilton, Button answered: “No comment.”

But he did admit: “It’s one less person in front of me.



#894 peroa

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:24

JB not satisfied with equality?

#895 as65p

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:29

Button working to build McLaren team around him


Well, that's damn honest of JB, and true on top of it. The important bit here is

.... which is something we all strive for. ...


Which obviously includes Hamilton. Well, unless he's not among the "smart people in F1" JB talks about.

At McLaren, Hamilton lost the off-track, intra-team battle.

Edited by as65p, 10 October 2012 - 08:39.


#896 as65p

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:34

JB not satisfied with equality?


Did he say that? I reckon he's just looking for that special flavour of equality.

Edited by as65p, 10 October 2012 - 08:39.


#897 Buttoneer

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:35

Really really do need to drop 2007-2009 please.

#898 eronrules

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:41

let the MORTAL BICKERING begin ... :rotfl:


What is a bit concerning is both Hamsta and JB are running their mouth too much before the season is even anywhere near it's end. i remember when kimi went to Ferrari or when JB went to Macca or when Alonso went to Ferrari, we didn't have this sort of statment/counterstatement regarding who's building the team around whom or who's stealing technical data from the team or who's not involved in next years car design and not allowed to participate in development discussion etc etc ... or ****ing Tw@tter following/unfollowing BS. it seems both JB and LH are trying dead hard to establish who's the Alpha Dog in Macca even though they should've been showing restraints. where is the games-man-ship i wonder.

well atleast the British media is getting their fodder ... but if i were PR guys in Macca, i'd tell both of them to SHOVE IT and JUST DRIVE

Edited by eronrules, 10 October 2012 - 08:43.


#899 peroa

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:43

Did he say that? I reckon he's just looking for that special flavour of equality, the one Hamilton had with Alonso in the 2nd half of 2007, or with Kova in 2008/09. Looks like he's achieved that now. :D

Well, Hamilton backed it up on track, JB on the other hand is full of hot air.
He can play politics all day long, it's on the track where it counts and he is losing that battle quite convincingly in a car that has been designed with his input and around him as he likes to point out.

Without macs monumental cockups this season we would be asking ourselves if his middle name is not perhaps Heikki.

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#900 MinT

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 08:44

Seems to me the JB quotes are a subtle come back for the hami Twitter comments this week.

I came and took your team from you - its what all drivers try to do, only you Lewis arent very good at it.....might be wrong but it seems a bit of a strange thing to be saying at this point without some ulterior motive to it.