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Jenson vs Lewis - 2012 Scorecard - Part III


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#1001 robefc

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 16:09

So positives -

1)Lewis seems to have handled his embarrassment pretty well, getting in touch with jb to apologise, laughing at himself etc, seems a potentially awkward situation has been defused

2) He may have woken up and smelt the coffee re: twitter and hopefully by extension commenting to media etc

3) Crap set up in Japan seems to have been caused by a technical issue so unlikely to be an issue here.

Roll on FP1...

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#1002 MP422

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 16:19

In order for Jenson to come out on top after qualifying behind, he's usually either got to be quicker in the race, or make less mistakes. Overall this season, he's done neither.

Hamilton has been forced out of 4 of the last 8 races. It's hard to win any prizes when you can only obtain half the points available. Alonso has had a 50% retirement rate in the last 4 races too - look what's happened to his points advantage,


I get sad when i read that... :cry:

There's still hope !!!

#1003 skidmarks

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 18:13

You may want to believe that LH social skills are fine because "he is ahead", but he is not the one leaving. All I am trying to do is stimulate reasoned debate as to why he felt that to be necessary?


There's a quite mistaken belief, in that all you have to do is to do as good a job as you can, and people will appreciate that. Well that's simply not true. At least, not in my experience. If there is a prevailing attitude from the guys up top such as, "Lewis is only there to drive the car and the rest is up to the team, so don't listen to him" (see Germany 2009 when Lewis asked the team to retire a broken car, as an example of this) then that filters down the ranks.

And the thing is, is nigh on impossible to change. You can work your hardest, be fully committed and bring in the results but peoples attitudes may not change. They may be set in stone. They be influenced from the attitude of those above, who may decide that no matter what you do, you're to be treated in a certain way (see Jack Tramiel as a prime example of this). And so you have two choices; deal with it or leave.

And dealing with it, is very wearing. It can lead to reducing your effectiveness and have a massive impact on your life outside of your job. I think it takes a strong personality to admit that a loosing battle is being fought, and to give up whatever comforts or advantage your current team offers and to start from scratch elsewhere.



#1004 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:30

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do. Not exactly gracious is it? This sort of thing is why I find Lewis so much more likeable.

#1005 race addicted

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:36

Totally agree. There's more human in Hamilton, both good and bad.

#1006 robefc

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:40

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do. Not exactly gracious is it? This sort of thing is why I find Lewis so much more likeable.


With all due respect I'm finding your comments re:JB increasingly incredulous.

#1007 jrg19

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:46

Its all about something on twitter... you would think he'd been caught with Jessica.



#1008 Peter Perfect

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 19:57

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do. Not exactly gracious is it? This sort of thing is why I find Lewis so much more likeable.

Seriously, what did you hope he'd say?

#1009 dave12

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:04

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do. Not exactly gracious is it? This sort of thing is why I find Lewis so much more likeable.

:confused: So what should have said then?

#1010 P123

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:12

Roll on FP1...


:up:

#1011 Fox1

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:15

People do gravitate to other people, due to charisma, leadership ect ect and subconsciously allow themselves to be led. Social interaction within a team is not as black and white as you make out.

A little cash and a free dinner here or there doesn't hurt either.

I kid! I kid!

All drivers have a manipulative streak to get things in their favor. Some are just better at it than others. They are also usually the stronger driver, and in this case JB is not. The false notion of McLaren being "Lewis' Team" probably didn't help either.

#1012 stevesingo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:30

There's a quite mistaken belief, in that all you have to do is to do as good a job as you can, and people will appreciate that. Well that's simply not true. At least, not in my experience. If there is a prevailing attitude from the guys up top such as, "Lewis is only there to drive the car and the rest is up to the team, so don't listen to him" (see Germany 2009 when Lewis asked the team to retire a broken car, as an example of this) then that filters down the ranks.

And the thing is, is nigh on impossible to change. You can work your hardest, be fully committed and bring in the results but peoples attitudes may not change. They may be set in stone. They be influenced from the attitude of those above, who may decide that no matter what you do, you're to be treated in a certain way (see Jack Tramiel as a prime example of this). And so you have two choices; deal with it or leave.

And dealing with it, is very wearing. It can lead to reducing your effectiveness and have a massive impact on your life outside of your job. I think it takes a strong personality to admit that a loosing battle is being fought, and to give up whatever comforts or advantage your current team offers and to start from scratch elsewhere.


To true! But in between the top and the employee are many other people, and those in the lower echelons of motorsport teams are probably more able to influence performance than Ron or any other faceless board members. Quite easy for those separated from the grind stone to just say that is your job and jet on with it. It is the engineers that need pulling in your favour.

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do. Not exactly gracious is it? This sort of thing is why I find Lewis so much more likeable.


Probably biting his tongue in order to maintain whatever harmony remains.


Seriously, what did you hope he'd say?



:confused: So what should have said then?


Lewis apologised which I believe show what a great guy he is and how much more of a likeable guy he is. I accepted his apology and offered him a night in bed with Jessica as Nicole has left him again!



#1013 stevesingo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:34

A little cash and a free dinner here or there doesn't hurt either.

I kid! I kid!

All drivers have a manipulative streak to get things in their favor. Some are just better at it than others. They are also usually the stronger driver, and in this case JB is not. The false notion of McLaren being "Lewis' Team" probably didn't help either.


He might not be the fastest in ultimate pace, but you can't argue with the way he has gone about business since joining McLaren. He has gained the support of the team and been, so some extent but not fully, responsible for Lewis leaving.

There is more to this game than driving.



#1014 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:51

Seriously, what did you hope he'd say?


:confused: So what should have said then?


For example: "It was no big deal, a mistake, Lewis apologised and I completely accept the apology and it's all good between us. In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect."

As it is he's said in effect 'yes Lewis needed to apologise and it helped somewhat that he did.' Tosser, sorry.

#1015 skidmarks

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:53

To true! But in between the top and the employee are many other people, and those in the lower echelons of motorsport teams are probably more able to influence performance than Ron or any other faceless board members. Quite easy for those separated from the grind stone to just say that is your job and jet on with it. It is the engineers that need pulling in your favour.


This is true, but they are going to take their lead from their boss. And I don't mean the person who is going to be "leading" them either. There are only so many people between the team chief and the driver engineering team. That would be Sam Michaels and Phil Prew in this case. They take their lead from Whitmarsh, and the guys below them follow suite.

It's not that Whitmarsh wants Lewis to fail, it's maybe that they have pre-conceived ideas about what he's capable and not capable of and what his place in the team should be. And to me, this was no more apparent this year in the Canadian Grand Prix when Lewis made a point to Sam that he should have trusted him (Lewis) in the choice of strategy. And Sam's response was "I did trust you". To me, it seemed that somebody was fighting against letting Lewis choose or change the strategy because they felt that they knew better.

Otherwise, why would Lewis make that point? Why would he be so adamant in pointing out that he knew what he was doing? And let's not even go into the questioning the teams view on Alonso and Vettel's strategy. Again, he had a better view of what they were doing than the team at this point in time, or so it seemed, and they were set on this idea that they would do a three stopper as well.

So that's pretty much where I'm coming from. Lewis can make the right calls in strategy, get as much out of the car as he possibly can and still, it seems the team won't trust him and seem to assume that his place is "just to drive the car" and leave the rest up to them. It would fit pretty well with Alonso's frustrations with the team with regards to strategy choice and the amount of input the driver was allowed.

But Jenson hasn't had that baggage. He joined after Whitmarsh had been installed as team chief, and it could be that the attitude was that Jenson was mature enough to make his own calls with regards to strategy. That he should be listened to. And that attitude then filters down the pipe, and the rest of the team really take that on board.

As a Mclaren fan, I'm sad that Lewis will be leaving. He's a much needed resource given that the team insists on such stiff suspension on the cars, which gives a very narrow setup window, meaning that the car can sometimes be hampered by its setup range. The team needs somebody like that, and now he's gone.



#1016 Fox1

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:55

He might not be the fastest in ultimate pace, but you can't argue with the way he has gone about business since joining McLaren. He has gained the support of the team and been, so some extent but not fully, responsible for Lewis leaving.

There is more to this game than driving.

All I can say is it depends on who's running the team. JB wouldn't survive at Ferrari or RedBull and he knows it. McLaren threw money at Lewis for a reason but unfortunately it wasn't only about money. You can focus on political savvy as much as you like, but in the end it's about the driver who can extract the most from the package he's provided; I think even you would admit the fact that it isn't Jenson. It was a huge blunder for McLaren to allow this to happen, end of story. I don't dislike Jenson, but if I had to choose which driver to keep it wouldn't have been him. I'm sure the board wasn't thrilled as some of JB's fans appear to be.

No need for a retort. I'm just giving you a hard time when I saw your list of driver traits and wanted to let you know that they apply to Lewis as well.

#1017 as65p

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:56

For example: "It was no big deal, a mistake, Lewis apologised and I completely accept the apology and it's all good between us. In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect."


I Button had said that, chances are you would not have believed he meant it and called him a tosser for being dishonest. Oh, and that would of course be reason why you like Lewis more.

As it is he's said in effect 'yes Lewis needed to apologise and it helped somewhat that he did.'


Yep.

#1018 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:57

With all due respect I'm finding your comments re:JB increasingly incredulous.

Increasing from what?

#1019 Peter Perfect

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:08

For example: "It was no big deal, a mistake, Lewis apologised and I completely accept the apology and it's all good between us. In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect."

As it is he's said in effect 'yes Lewis needed to apologise and it helped somewhat that he did.' Tosser, sorry.

Well, he did say it was no big deal. As for the "In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect." Hamilton quite clearly doesn't, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it. You presumably wanted Button to lie through his teeth?

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#1020 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:15

Well, he did say it was no big deal. As for the "In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect." Hamilton quite clearly doesn't, otherwise he wouldn't have posted it. You presumably wanted Button to lie through his teeth?

But JB did not actually accept the apology did he?

And the whole thing was BECAUSE Lewis valued their mutual respect, and thought (albeit mistakenly) that JB had less respect for him than he Lewis had supposed. That's what Lewis tweeted.

#1021 ayali

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:17

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do.

Cool, a matter of fact and measured response
well done JB :up:

#1022 swerved

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:19

:confused: So what should have said then?



"Lewis is TDG and i'm in constant awe"


Amazing isn't it, Lewis publicly, and mistakenly accuses Jenson of a lack of respect, does the decent thing and apologises, Jenson publicly acknowledges his appreciation of that apology, and yet still Jenson is the one thats "not exactly gracious"

I imagine most people would be of the opinion that Lewis's unfounded accusation was a better example of "not exactly gracious"

#1023 skidmarks

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:22

For example: "It was no big deal, a mistake, Lewis apologised and I completely accept the apology and it's all good between us. In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect."

As it is he's said in effect 'yes Lewis needed to apologise and it helped somewhat that he did.' Tosser, sorry.


I think you're being far too harsh on Button. Button doesn't have to sing Lewis's praises on even do more than acknowledge the apology that Lewis made. In all honesty, Button doesn't need to accept Lewis's apology, and I wouldn't think bad of him if he didn't. After all, Button is not the the one who messed up!

I think that some are making a bit of a mountain out the molehill that is Jenson's response. I don't think Jenson is happy with Lewis, for quite a few reasons. Leaving McLaren, the telemetry tweet, the un-follow tweet and being soundly shown up by Lewis is terms of performance this season, when he and others (Stewart, Hill, Lauda Moss et al) thought this would be the year Button proved he was better than Hamilton in every way.

So I think we can excuse him for not falling over himself to tell us all how nice, and sweet that Lewis and he are, and that they're just the bestest buddies now after the apology. Because that's not how it is. Button is unhappy with Hamilton, and he has every right to be.



#1024 ayali

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:25

I imagine most people would be of the opinion that Lewis's unfounded accusation was a better example of "not exactly gracious"

Most people did, just check the press, media comments and social media from this week.
Only a "select" few see no fault with Lewis and fruitlessly try to portray Jenson as somehow to blame in this matter

#1025 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:49

I think you're being far too harsh on Button. Button doesn't have to sing Lewis's praises on even do more than acknowledge the apology that Lewis made. In all honesty, Button doesn't need to accept Lewis's apology, and I wouldn't think bad of him if he didn't. After all, Button is not the the one who messed up!

I think that some are making a bit of a mountain out the molehill that is Jenson's response. I don't think Jenson is happy with Lewis, for quite a few reasons. Leaving McLaren, the telemetry tweet, the un-follow tweet and being soundly shown up by Lewis is terms of performance this season, when he and others (Stewart, Hill, Lauda Moss et al) thought this would be the year Button proved he was better than Hamilton in every way.

So I think we can excuse him for not falling over himself to tell us all how nice, and sweet that Lewis and he are, and that they're just the bestest buddies now after the apology. Because that's not how it is. Button is unhappy with Hamilton, and he has every right to be.

Well I'd have been more impressed if JB had actually fully accepted the apology. That would have been the 'big' thing to do, instead of being 'amazed they can sit together'. It's not a question of being sweet. Anyway he has the right to be how he is, and I have the right to like him accordingly.

As for the rest, he wanted to join McLaren so being soundly beaten is his choice lol. And he must be overjoyed Lewis is leaving, he's already talking about how he's going to have the team around him and screw equality and Perez.

#1026 robefc

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 21:58

Increasing from what?


:lol:

Good point!

On a separate note, as a Lewis fan I find the criticism of JB from some, which seems to go hand in hand with whenever Lewis has done something and JB has not reacted by acknowledging that Lewis is awesome in every way, confusing.

I can't imagine neutrals have any issues with JB's behaviour.

This weekend is another example of JB declining the perfect opportunity to kick Lewis, in fact he just seems bemused at the fuss, just as I imagine he was bemused at the tweet in the first place.

Basically I think JB has acted with class for the last 3 years and just because I think Lewis deserves a more sympathetic hearing than some give him...actually scratch that, I'm not sure he does but I give him one at any rate, doesn't mean JB deserves criticism simply because his teammate inspires a certain kind of devotee.

Edited by robefc, 11 October 2012 - 22:07.


#1027 P123

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:10

:lol:

Good point!

On a separate note, as a Lewis fan I find the criticism of JB from some, which seems to go hand in hand with whenever Lewis has done something and JB has not reacted by acknowledging that Lewis is awesome in every way, confusing.

I can't imagine neutrals have any issues with JB's behaviour.

This weekend is another example of JB declining the perfect opportunity to kick Lewis, in fact he just seems bemused at the fuss, just as I imagine he was bemused at the tweet in the first place.

Basically I think JB has acted with class for the last 3 years and just because I think Lewis deserves a more sympathetic hearing than some give him...actually scratch that, I'm not sure he does but I give him one at any rate, doesn't mean JB deserves criticism simply because his teammate inspires a certain kind of devotee.


What you mean is a large amount of the criticism thrown at drivers is mind numbingly petty! It's not the first time I've read some inane bickering over what a driver should have said. :rolleyes:

PS- I think LH does a good enough job of kicking himself to save JB the trouble of having to bother.  ;)

#1028 PARAZAR

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:13

For example: "It was no big deal, a mistake, Lewis apologised and I completely accept the apology and it's all good between us. In fact it's good to know Lewis values my respect."

As it is he's said in effect 'yes Lewis needed to apologise and it helped somewhat that he did.' Tosser, sorry.


So, Lewis was the one that unfoundedly called Jenson out on being disrespectful towards him (and for sth as silly as twitter) yet he's the tosser because he didn't accept Lewis' apology in the appropriate manner (accordingly to you)?

#1029 PARAZAR

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:17

:lol:

Good point!

On a separate note, as a Lewis fan I find the criticism of JB from some, which seems to go hand in hand with whenever Lewis has done something and JB has not reacted by acknowledging that Lewis is awesome in every way, confusing.

I can't imagine neutrals have any issues with JB's behaviour.

This weekend is another example of JB declining the perfect opportunity to kick Lewis, in fact he just seems bemused at the fuss, just as I imagine he was bemused at the tweet in the first place.

Basically I think JB has acted with class for the last 3 years and just because I think Lewis deserves a more sympathetic hearing than some give him...actually scratch that, I'm not sure he does but I give him one at any rate, doesn't mean JB deserves criticism simply because his teammate inspires a certain kind of devotee.


Indeed. This was Jenson's minimum fuss response: “It’s dealt with now, it’s done,” he said. “Lewis came and apologised. It’s not really worth talking about because it’s Twitter.“I have no issue with it. He’s entitled to his opinion. That’s it,” he concluded.


#1030 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:30

:lol:

Good point!

On a separate note, as a Lewis fan I find the criticism of JB from some, which seems to go hand in hand with whenever Lewis has done something and JB has not reacted by acknowledging that Lewis is awesome in every way, confusing.

I can't imagine neutrals have any issues with JB's behaviour.

This weekend is another example of JB declining the perfect opportunity to kick Lewis, in fact he just seems bemused at the fuss, just as I imagine he was bemused at the tweet in the first place.

Basically I think JB has acted with class for the last 3 years and just because I think Lewis deserves a more sympathetic hearing than some give him...actually scratch that, I'm not sure he does but I give him one at any rate, doesn't mean JB deserves criticism simply because his teammate inspires a certain kind of devotee.

This is a pretty stupid, personal post. For me, JB did not fully accept the apology and so I think less of him. Simple as.

If Lewis had done that I'd have felt the same, and indeed I have have posted that I think slightly less of Lewis for not checking before he tweeted. But I have always found JB less likeable than LH and that's why I prefer LH, Cause, effect. Not the other way round.

#1031 robefc

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:37

This is a pretty stupid, personal post. For me, JB did not fully accept the apology and so I think less of him. Simple as.

If Lewis had done that I'd have felt the same, and indeed I have have posted that I think slightly less of Lewis for not checking before he tweeted. But I have always found JB less likeable than LH and that's why I prefer LH, Cause, effect. Not the other way round.


It's not personal, it's not directed specifically at you, perhaps the 'separate note' phrase didn't state that clearly enough.

#1032 undersquare

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 22:45

It's not personal, it's not directed specifically at you, perhaps the 'separate note' phrase didn't state that clearly enough.

Fair enough, thank you.

#1033 stevesingo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:44

All I can say is it depends on who's running the team. JB wouldn't survive at Ferrari or RedBull and he knows it. McLaren threw money at Lewis for a reason but unfortunately it wasn't only about money. You can focus on political savvy as much as you like, but in the end it's about the driver who can extract the most from the package he's provided; I think even you would admit the fact that it isn't Jenson. It was a huge blunder for McLaren to allow this to happen, end of story. I don't dislike Jenson, but if I had to choose which driver to keep it wouldn't have been him. I'm sure the board wasn't thrilled as some of JB's fans appear to be.

No need for a retort. I'm just giving you a hard time when I saw your list of driver traits and wanted to let you know that they apply to Lewis as well.


Why, you need to explain this?

RE: List, If Lewis is able to galvanize the team around him by being good at the 2nd part of the list,

Being able to focus a team effort

Influencing people

Leadership

Motivate a team.

why is he leaving?



#1034 Lazy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:59

but in the end it's about the driver who can extract the most from the package he's provided


ie: put points on the board.

#1035 tifosiMac

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:23

I personally wouldn't have apologized to Jenson. I don't think there was any need to and vice versa in the past. Christ, I have rows with people I work with and by tea break time, its all forgotten. Just forget about it.

Edited by tifosiMac, 12 October 2012 - 08:29.


#1036 Dalton007

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:33

This is a pretty stupid, personal post. For me, JB did not fully accept the apology and so I think less of him. Simple as.

If Lewis had done that I'd have felt the same, and indeed I have have posted that I think slightly less of Lewis for not checking before he tweeted. But I have always found JB less likeable than LH and that's why I prefer LH, Cause, effect. Not the other way round.


I doubt Jenson can forgive Lewis for betraying their friendship at SPA.

#1037 PARAZAR

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:38

I doubt Jenson can forgive Lewis for betraying their friendship at SPA.


I personally think Jenson couldn't care less to be honest. And that's how it should be. His head is in the game, the F1 game that is and that is far more important than bothering with who follows or unfollows whom on social networks.

#1038 Rinehart

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:41

But JB did not actually accept the apology did he?

And the whole thing was BECAUSE Lewis valued their mutual respect, and thought (albeit mistakenly) that JB had less respect for him than he Lewis had supposed. That's what Lewis tweeted.


You are seriously trying to make Jenson out to be the villian over Lewis foolish tweet are you?
Let it go. Both drivers have.

#1039 Burtros

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:31

On the morning of a practice session people are arguing about how much of an arsehole Jenson is for being insulted publically, then accepting an apology for it? OK. Certain people need to go away and take a deep breath.

Jenson looking at this stage to be much improved around here. Lets hope to god he can carry it on tomorrow - he needs to show he can deliver round here. Its not good having a total bogey track at this stage in the season.

As for Lewis? In the tone of this thread, I dont know what possibly could have been wrong in P2. Naturally, it could not have been anything Lewis did so Im looking at the car, team, jenson, sabotage, a rival, and the position of the sun relative to jupiter. Also I have been able to missquote Martin Whitmarsh in a way that suggests McLaren have installed special anti-lewis tar at certain points of the lap. LOL!

Edited by Burtros, 12 October 2012 - 09:31.


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#1040 tifosiMac

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:17

As for Lewis? In the tone of this thread, I dont know what possibly could have been wrong in P2. Naturally, it could not have been anything Lewis did so Im looking at the car, team, jenson, sabotage, a rival, and the position of the sun relative to jupiter. Also I have been able to missquote Martin Whitmarsh in a way that suggests McLaren have installed special anti-lewis tar at certain points of the lap. LOL!

In all seriousness it wasn't anything to do with Lewis in P2. They tried different setups and Lewis lost pace, he said so himself.

#1041 Burtros

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:21

In all seriousness it wasn't anything to do with Lewis in P2. They tried different setups and Lewis lost pace, he said so himself.


yeah I know. It was meant humorously - nothing else:)

#1042 tifosiMac

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:22

I know you did. :)

#1043 mlsnoopy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:37

So mysterious issues for Hamilton after signing a contract with Mercedes.

#1044 thesham01

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:43

So mysterious issues for Hamilton after signing a contract with Mercedes.


I'll wait and see how this race weekend goes first, personally I doubt McLaren would be that bitter.

But if this happens at most of the remaining races then something is definitely wrong. As someone said recently; there is a reason Alonso demanded FIA people in the garage during the back end of 2007.


#1045 Burtros

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:48

I'll wait and see how this race weekend goes first, personally I doubt McLaren would be that bitter.

But if this happens at most of the remaining races then something is definitely wrong. As someone said recently; there is a reason Alonso demanded FIA people in the garage during the back end of 2007.


Even if he does make a complete hash of the end of season run in - you wont know if its the team or Hamilton. For me, its far more likley he'll lose his head and make a total hash of things rather than the team do anything.

And as I said recently, there are reasons why you'd have to be a total moron to liken this to 2007. The connection does not go beyond a WDC leaving the team. The reason Alonso wanted someone in there was because the team had nothing to loose being out of the WCC, and he had screwed just about everyone in that garage over. He knew it. Its worlds apart from this situation and Im sure you know it. It just doesnt suit your argument to look below the surface.

Edited by Burtros, 12 October 2012 - 10:50.


#1046 thesham01

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:52

Even if he does make a complete hash of the end of season run in - you wont know if its the team or Hamilton. For me, its far more likley he'll lose his head and make a total hash of things rather than the team do anything.

And as I said recently, there are reasons why you'd have to be a total moron to liken this to 2007. The connection does not go beyond a WDC leaving the team. The reason Alonso wanted someone in there was because the team had nothing to loose being out of the WCC, and he had screwed just about everyone in that garage over. He knew it. Its worlds apart from this situation and Im sure you know it. It just doesnt suit your argument to look below the surface.


Thats fair enough. It was just a little quote I threw in.

I don't believe McLaren would **** Hamilton over personally, and if they did I would be very confident Hamilton would let the world know one way or another.

#1047 Guizotia

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:54

Well I hope they have a team of engineers poring over Jenson's data right now, to understand why Lewis is slower...

#1048 Burtros

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:55

Thats fair enough. It was just a little quote I threw in.

I don't believe McLaren would **** Hamilton over personally, and if they did I would be very confident Hamilton would let the world know one way or another.


He would find a way of letting us know - Im sure of it too!

Lewis is not afraid to speak his mind. That we know!

Edited by Burtros, 12 October 2012 - 10:55.


#1049 Buttoneer

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:55

" Lewis came and apologised which is good"

That's the best JB can do. Not exactly gracious is it? This sort of thing is why I find Lewis so much more likeable.

What's important is how Hamilton and Jenson dealt with the matter between them, and while we saw a tweeted apology, we don't know how they dealt with it in person.

What you appear to be upset about is how Jenson has characterised it to the press.

#1050 Force Ten

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 14:02

For me, JB did not fully accept the apology and so I think less of him.

Just curious. Is there anywhere "less" for you to go?