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Jenson vs Lewis - 2012 Scorecard - Part III


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#1051 enrm6

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:16

:confused: So what should have said then?


How about:

"The cheeky little sod tried to apologise for putting his foot in it again after believing some tripe about me apparently unfollowing him on twitter. I seem to remember some of the Autosport forums lot fell for this a few weeks back. Given Lewis' clearly well honed social media skills you'd have thought he'd have cottoned on by now. Anyway he'll be gone in a few weeks and he can focus his twittering at poor Nico whilst his stint in the midfield hopefully makes a man of him."


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#1052 SunnyENTP

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:21

Well I hope they have a team of engineers poring over Jenson's data right now, to understand why Lewis is slower...



:lol:

But McLaren are racing Lewis. Its funny even the BBC said Whitmarsh would had smiled when Perez overtook Lewis. That says it all

#1053 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:31

As for Lewis? In the tone of this thread, I dont know what possibly could have been wrong in P2. Naturally, it could not have been anything Lewis did so Im looking at the car, team, jenson, sabotage, a rival, and the position of the sun relative to jupiter. Also I have been able to missquote Martin Whitmarsh in a way that suggests McLaren have installed special anti-lewis tar at certain points of the lap. LOL!


Is Jenson starting to show his natural smooth superiority again that he had in Spa 2012 and Suzuka 2011?
Or is Lewis really being "sabotaged" after the damper problems he had already last race?

Would McLaren do that when the WCC is on the line?

"Hamilton was 0.498secs slower than Button, who was fourth fastest behind Vettel, the German's Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber and Ferrari's Fernando Alonso."

Half a second off Jenson's pace - that is not normal. The idea of special anti-Lewis tar is original, to say the least. No one will find anything on the car in that way.... :lol:

#1054 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:32

:lol:

But McLaren are racing Lewis. Its funny even the BBC said Whitmarsh would had smiled when Perez overtook Lewis. That says it all


Karma coming back 5 years later....

#1055 Lazy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:34

:lol:

But McLaren are racing Lewis. Its funny even the BBC said Whitmarsh would had smiled when Perez overtook Lewis. That says it all


Really? When did Perez overtake Lewis?

Or did he mean the time he tried to overtake but got it wrong and went off? Would put it in a slightly different light.

#1056 encircled

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 18:37

Really? When did Perez overtake Lewis?

Or did he mean the time he tried to overtake but got it wrong and went off? Would put it in a slightly different light.

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#1057 Guizotia

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:08

Seeing as the relationship is coming to an end now, it seems like a good time get something off my chest.

I said on this forum when Jenson joined McLaren that Jenson trying to match Lewis would "be like a dog barking at the tide coming in".

I was wrong. Jenson is a much better driver than I gave credit for, and has certainly proven that being the fastest driver is not the be-all and end-all. (if that sounds like a back-handed compliment, it's not meant to be)

It's impossible for me to support Jenson while Lewis is in the same team, because your team-mate is your number one competitor.

But I can already feel that come January 1st when they are in separate teams, I will be supporting Jenson in McLaren (only slightly) secondarily to supporting Lewis in Mercedes. There's a lot in that that I would never have predicted in 2009.

#1058 stevesingo

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:51

Really? When did Perez overtake Lewis?

Or did he mean the time he tried to overtake but got it wrong and went off? Would put it in a slightly different light.



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OWNED!

Edited by stevesingo, 12 October 2012 - 19:52.


#1059 zack1994

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 19:53

:lol:

But McLaren are racing Lewis. Its funny even the BBC said Whitmarsh would had smiled when Perez overtook Lewis. That says it all

Did whitmarsh smile when perez overtook hamilton?

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#1060 undersquare

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:36

What's important is how Hamilton and Jenson dealt with the matter between them, and while we saw a tweeted apology, we don't know how they dealt with it in person.

What you appear to be upset about is how Jenson has characterised it to the press.

I'm not upset about it. IIRC I just said I was unimpressed, and a load of JB fans got upset :D

I was unimpressed that, in the words I saw, Jenson did not fully accept the apology. He said "Lewis apologised which was good", which has a different meaning altogether.

He may have said something better at some other time, who knows, but there's no evidence for it.

#1061 Lazy

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:50

I was unimpressed that, in the words I saw, Jenson did not fully accept the apology. He said "Lewis apologised which was good", which has a different meaning altogether.


:stoned:

#1062 Burtros

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:50

Is Jenson starting to show his natural smooth superiority again that he had in Spa 2012 and Suzuka 2011?
Or is Lewis really being "sabotaged" after the damper problems he had already last race?

Would McLaren do that when the WCC is on the line?

"Hamilton was 0.498secs slower than Button, who was fourth fastest behind Vettel, the German's Red Bull team-mate Mark Webber and Ferrari's Fernando Alonso."

Half a second off Jenson's pace - that is not normal. The idea of special anti-Lewis tar is original, to say the least. No one will find anything on the car in that way.... :lol:


Buttons still someway of his form from the second half of last year I think and its still to early to say where their pace is relevant to each other this weekend. Plenty of time for Lewis to sort it out. He should beat JB here.

Its also worth noting that Jensons race pace was supposedly the best out there in FP2.

If this thread doesnt get bogged down in talk of sabotage its going to be a fascinating end to the fight between these two. Sadly, I think should JB end up finishing ahead of Lewis this year now, the story of why is already firmly written for some.

Edited by Burtros, 12 October 2012 - 20:52.


#1063 ayali

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 20:56

I'm not upset about it. IIRC I just said I was unimpressed, and a load of JB fans got upset :D

So you being "unimpressed" equals JB is a "tosser" lol

In that case I'm very unimpressed with your post ;-)



#1064 stanga

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 21:00

Buttons still someway of his form from the second half of last year I think and its still to early to say where their pace is relevant to each other this weekend. Plenty of time for Lewis to sort it out. He should beat JB here.

Its also worth noting that Jensons race pace was supposedly the best out there in FP2.

If this thread doesnt get bogged down in talk of sabotage its going to be a fascinating end to the fight between these two. Sadly, I think should JB end up finishing ahead of Lewis this year now, the story of why is already firmly written for some.


JB benefitted hugely from the EBD last year and Lewis imploded.

Lewis has been the most consistent driver this year, on a par with Alonso and has had terrible fortune with the latest revelations about the broken suspension part in Japan.

Today we saw a very strange situation whereby a driver goes fastest in one session but is nowhere the next. A driver that has never been in that position as long as i can remember (usually is consistent between sessions). I think after Q3 tomorrow the situation will be clearer.

#1065 undersquare

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 21:18

So you being "unimpressed" equals JB is a "tosser" lol

In that case I'm very unimpressed with your post ;-)

Nope

And don't think your silly insult is impressive.

#1066 techspeed

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 21:54

I'm not upset about it. IIRC I just said I was unimpressed, and a load of JB fans got upset :D

I was unimpressed that, in the words I saw, Jenson did not fully accept the apology. He said "Lewis apologised which was good", which has a different meaning altogether.

He may have said something better at some other time, who knows, but there's no evidence for it.

So because when a reporter shoved a microphone in front of him and asked him about the Twitter embarrassment from Lewis, Button said a short answer and moved on instead of recalling every word of what he said to Hamilton, you are unimpressed? :rotfl:
I don't think Button will be too worried that he didn't impress you in what he said to a reporter in an interview considering he hasn't managed to impress you on track by managing to not be far behind the supposed worlds fastest f1 driver. :drunk:

Edited by techspeed, 12 October 2012 - 21:55.


#1067 as65p

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 22:50

JB benefitted hugely from the EBD last year and Lewis imploded.

Lewis has been the most consistent driver this year, on a par with Alonso and has had terrible fortune with the latest revelations about the broken suspension part in Japan.

Today we saw a very strange situation whereby a driver goes fastest in one session but is nowhere the next.
A driver that has never been in that position as long as i can remember (usually is consistent between sessions). I think after Q3 tomorrow the situation will be clearer.


I you'd pay attention to more than Hamilton you'd notice that's nothing strange at all, a lot of driver performances fluctuate a great deal between FP sessions. Without the time sheets, only reading this board, one could be excused for thinking Hamilton must have been 5 seconds off the pace in FP2.

Only in Hamiltons case though there is made such a big fuss about being first in FP1 and 8th in FP2, conspiracies developed or broken parts suspected. This whole ballooney of "Lewis misfortunes"... :drunk:

#1068 Buttoneer

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:15

I'm not upset about it. IIRC I just said I was unimpressed, and a load of JB fans got upset :D

I was unimpressed that, in the words I saw, Jenson did not fully accept the apology. He said "Lewis apologised which was good", which has a different meaning altogether.

He may have said something better at some other time, who knows, but there's no evidence for it.

It's not just 'some other time', but the important moment. Hamilton said he went and apologised at the start of the weekend in person. Jenson's reaction to Lewis then, whatever it may have been, is the important one, and not what he said at the press conference in which it appears he wanted to move on to talk about the racing*.

Your judgement is based on an uninformed opinion, which you're free to do, but it is quite wrong to say that he did or did not accept the apology because there really is 'no evidence for it' either way.



*The fuller version is "For me it’s amazing we are sat here talking about it at a grand prix. Lewis came and apologised which was good."

#1069 gricey1981

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:18

It's not just 'some other time', but the important moment. Hamilton said he went and apologised at the start of the weekend in person. Jenson's reaction to Lewis then, whatever it may have been, is the important one, and not what he said at the press conference in which it appears he wanted to move on to talk about the racing*.

Your judgement is based on an uninformed opinion, which you're free to do, but it is quite wrong to say that he did or did not accept the apology because there really is 'no evidence for it' either way.



*The fuller version is "For me it’s amazing we are sat here talking about it at a grand prix. Lewis came and apologised which was good."


If they have put a line under it everyone else should. Its twitter ffs. Almost feels like Lewis put the moves on jessica or something.



#1070 Buttoneer

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:25

We can only hope that those using the incident as an excuse to express dislike for one driver or the other will agree.

#1071 tifosiMac

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:26

OWNED!

I wouldn't quite say that. Lewis got back past and Perez owned himself on the second attempt. He didn't do his tyres much good on the first attempt either for that matter. :lol:

#1072 Lazy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 05:00

I wouldn't quite say that. Lewis got back past and Perez owned himself on the second attempt. He didn't do his tyres much good on the first attempt either for that matter. :lol:


I think he meant me :)


#1073 undersquare

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:32

It's not just 'some other time', but the important moment. Hamilton said he went and apologised at the start of the weekend in person. Jenson's reaction to Lewis then, whatever it may have been, is the important one, and not what he said at the press conference in which it appears he wanted to move on to talk about the racing*.

Your judgement is based on an uninformed opinion, which you're free to do, but it is quite wrong to say that he did or did not accept the apology because there really is 'no evidence for it' either way.

*The fuller version is "For me it’s amazing we are sat here talking about it at a grand prix. Lewis came and apologised which was good."

No mate, what's important for our opinions is what we know. If we find out more I'll update my opinion accordingly. Meanwhile Jenson's known words say he felt Lewis owed him an apology and the apology was positive. Partial acceptance. Then he says it's SUCH a big deal he's amazed they're actually sitting together :eek: .

This is a long way from something gracious in which he fully accepted the apology for something trivial that was a just careless mistake and not in fact disrespectful.

On the excuse thing, I don't especially dislike Jense, he's about mid-grid for me on the likes stakes, but this is an example of his weaker side and why I've never really taken to him.

Not that it's a big deal but, you know, people keep arguing about it.


#1074 PARAZAR

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:40

No mate, what's important for our opinions is what we know. If we find out more I'll update my opinion accordingly. Meanwhile Jenson's known words say he felt Lewis owed him an apology and the apology was positive. Partial acceptance. Then he says it's SUCH a big deal he's amazed they're actually sitting together :eek: .

This is a long way from something gracious in which he fully accepted the apology for something trivial that was a just careless mistake and not in fact disrespectful.

On the excuse thing, I don't especially dislike Jense, he's about mid-grid for me on the likes stakes, but this is an example of his weaker side and why I've never really taken to him.

Not that it's a big deal but, you know, people keep arguing about it.


Sarcasm towards the media that made such a big deal of it maybe? You don't like him, we get it. Lewis complains about lack of respect because of twitter, Jenson doesn't say much about it yet he's the weaker one? Well done to Lewis on a good job in qualifying! It's even more amazing that he got third considering the team was holding him back during FP2...

#1075 mlsnoopy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:49

Ups.

#1076 Lazy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:53

*The fuller version is "For me it’s amazing we are sat here talking about it at a grand prix. Lewis came and apologised which was good."



Then he says it's SUCH a big deal he's amazed they're actually sitting together :eek: .


Obviously he means that's it's so unimportant that he's amazed that they are talking about it, amazed that they are asking questions about twitter. Surely you understand that.

Pretty poor attempt at spin.

#1077 jrg19

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:56

Whats the qualifying score?



#1078 undersquare

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:03

Obviously he means that's it's so unimportant that he's amazed that they are talking about it, amazed that they are asking questions about twitter. Surely you understand that.

OK oh, perhaps you're right.

Anyway, qualy....small difference was crucial today.

#1079 mlsnoopy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:09

Whats the qualifying score?


New tyres.
Better RW.
Broken suspension.

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#1080 Requiem84

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:22

Hello Vodafone Mclaren F1, I hope you liked the little preview of next year this afternoon on Korea gave you.

Next year when you have a car that is capable of qualifying in the top 3, you might end up 11th and 12th. Gives you something to think about eh, Mr. Withmarsh?

#1081 Force Ten

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 07:23

New tyres.
Better RW.
Broken suspension.

Those were all a draw really, right?

#1082 Dalton007

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:51

Hello Vodafone Mclaren F1, I hope you liked the little preview of next year this afternoon on Korea gave you.

Next year when you have a car that is capable of qualifying in the top 3, you might end up 11th and 12th. Gives you something to think about eh, Mr. Withmarsh?


Of course you failed to realised that Jenson had to lift because of the yellow flags. :wave:

#1083 maverick69

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 08:59

Of course you failed to realised that Jenson had to lift because of the yellow flags. :wave:


But of course...... that's not the whole story is it.........

#1084 Dalton007

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:04

But of course...... that's not the whole story is it.........


What's the whole story?

#1085 maverick69

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:05

What's the whole story?


Made a mistake on his first Q2 run that left him exposed - and thus needing no dramas on his second run. No?

#1086 Dalton007

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:08

Made a mistake on his first Q2 run that left him exposed - and thus needing no dramas on his second run. No?


Oh yeah, just like Lewis struggled in Q1 and was nearly out of it. Or Japan quali when yellow flags came out and Lewis couldn't improve. Shit happens. The MAC has been locking fronts all weekend.

Edited by Dalton007, 13 October 2012 - 09:10.


#1087 teejay

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:17

What's the whole story?


Jenson on Sky immediately after quali actually said the yellow wasnt the issue.

#1088 Dalton007

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:18

Jenson on Sky immediately after quali actually said the yellow wasnt the issue.


On BBC and the press release he said it was. I don't know if he was up on his time in the other sectors, though.

#1089 P123

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:19

It was a bit of a scruffy session all round, for both McLaren drivers. No?

LH sneaked into Q2, JB was nudged out of Q2. All fine margins. In the end, LH delivered the lap when it counted.

#1090 Watkins74

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:21

Jenson on Sky immediately after quali actually said the yellow wasnt the issue.

I am not trying to get in this spitball fight but what did he say was the issue. Thank you.

#1091 maverick69

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:21

It was a bit of a scruffy session all round, for both McLaren drivers. No?

LH sneaked into Q2, JB was nudged out of Q2. All fine margins. In the end, LH delivered the lap when it counted.


Yep

#1092 mlsnoopy

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:25

Those were all a draw really, right?


I see them as objective reasons for the result.

#1093 teejay

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:29

I am not trying to get in this spitball fight but what did he say was the issue. Thank you.


Yeah no problem at all.

It has been 3 hours since and Ive been out for coffee with a lovely lady so my mind has moved onto other things but he pretty much said the yellow didnt help, but he had a bit of a messy lap.

Im sure the video will be online somewhere soon



#1094 tifosiMac

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:30

I think Whitmarsh can feel happy going forward after today. A job well done by Lewis.

#1095 Requiem84

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:38

Of course you failed to realised that Jenson had to lift because of the yellow flags. :wave:


Hamilton did a 38.0, Button a 38.4. That's a little more than his usual gap. With such a tight field, it's a good chance he will miss Q1 sometimes next year as well. Unless Mclaren build a qualifying rocketship.

Next year, whatever Button will do, you'll always know; Lewis could/would have been 2-4 tenths faster. To me, that's rather depressing being a Mclaren fan. For now, Perez hasn't proven to be a top qualifier as well. Kobayashi is well ahead in their personal Q-fight.

#1096 WitnessX

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:08

It was a bit of a scruffy session all round, for both McLaren drivers. No?

LH sneaked into Q2, JB was nudged out of Q2. All fine margins. In the end, LH delivered the lap when it counted.

I'm not saying you are wrong, Just pointing out that in this case "In the end, LH delivered the lap when it counted." is not quite the right term unless you have "In hindsight" in the beginning.

It's all relative to the circumstances which are and are not in the drivers control. Yes, Jenson was at fault on his first run.

Example:
If Senna had pipped Lewis in Q1, it in the same sense one could have said "In the end, JB delivered the lap when it counted."

Perhaps Jenson could have made it into Q3 if the yellow flags had not come out, then that lap would have been part of the "counted" part of qualifying.

Bottom line is the drivers and teams can't predict future events. When it "counts" is very difficult to predict. Shit happens.

#1097 WitnessX

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:13

Hamilton did a 38.0, Button a 38.4. That's a little more than his usual gap. With such a tight field, it's a good chance he will miss Q1 sometimes next year as well. Unless Mclaren build a qualifying rocketship.

Next year, whatever Button will do, you'll always know; Lewis could/would have been 2-4 tenths faster. To me, that's rather depressing being a Mclaren fan. For now, Perez hasn't proven to be a top qualifier as well. Kobayashi is well ahead in their personal Q-fight.

Why will they still have the MP4-27 next year?

If its not then any such conclusions are null and void.

#1098 Force Ten

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:23

I'm not saying you are wrong, Just pointing out that in this case "In the end, LH delivered the lap when it counted." is not quite the right term unless you have "In hindsight" in the beginning.

It's all relative to the circumstances which are and are not in the drivers control. Yes, Jenson was at fault on his first run.

Example:
If Senna had pipped Lewis in Q1, it in the same sense one could have said "In the end, JB delivered the lap when it counted."

Can we even say that *gasp* Hamilton was lucky and Button wasn't? I know I am wandering on the edge of heresy here but still?

Edited by Force Ten, 13 October 2012 - 10:24.


#1099 Coops3

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:24

Why will they still have the MP4-27 next year?

If its not then any such conclusions are null and void.


I'm not sure that they're totally null and void, the average gap wasn't dissimilar in 2010 or 2011.

Edited by Coops3, 13 October 2012 - 10:25.


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#1100 bauss

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:25

Why will they still have the MP4-27 next year?

If its not then any such conclusions are null and void.

:) you know better