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Jenson vs Lewis - 2012 Scorecard - Part III


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#2551 jrg19

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:17

Real bad luck for JB he would have made it into Q3 without the problems.

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#2552 f1fastestlap

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:18

Bloody sky.
The first clip they play is "Hamilton mistakes".
Thankfully Johnny Herbert recognizes the brilliant lap.

Whitmarsh is just pathetic, really.


Yeah that was a cheap shot from Sky :down:

#2553 karlth

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:20

Bloody sky.
The first clip they play is "Hamilton mistakes".

Whitmarsh is just pathetic, really.


Hamilton mistakes? What was that clip about? Any specific mistakes?

What did Martin say?

#2554 mlsnoopy

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:21

What's embarassing?


Button's perfformance. Button not making into Q3. Where as Hamilton went into god mode.

#2555 PARAZAR

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:21

Bloody sky.
The first clip they play is "Hamilton mistakes".
Thankfully Johnny Herbert recognizes the brilliant lap.

Whitmarsh is just pathetic, really.


What did Whitmarsh say this time?

#2556 PARAZAR

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:23

Button's perfformance. Button not making into Q3. Where as Hamilton went into god mode.


You do realise what happened right? Loss of power...or do you think he wouldn't have made it into Q3 without that problem?

#2557 OO7

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:23

Earlier they were discussing Hamilton-Button this year and saying Button has a chance of beating him again, with zero mention of Hamilton's bad luck.

I would have found that slightly irritating if it wasn't for the fact that they weren't discussing driver performance, just a case of them both wanting to finish ahead of the other at seasons end.

#2558 Nahnever

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:24

Earlier they were discussing Hamilton-Button this year and saying Button has a chance of beating him again, with zero mention of Hamilton's bad luck.

Button also does their track guide. Disgusting.

#2559 Coral

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:26

Whitmarsh had a face like a wet weekend after qualy and he said that Lewis's fantastic lap was "unfortunately not good enough". What a numpty. I reckon that he is the one with the regrets, no Lewis! :drunk:

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#2560 peroa

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:27

What did Whitmarsh say this time?

He was sooo downbeat, instead of being happy and praising Lew for the lap he did, he goes on to babble about how they should've taken pole but than Vettel just found more time blabla...

#2561 superdelphinus

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:33

It's because he's losing that and gaining Perez ;)

#2562 OO7

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:34

Button also does their track guide. Disgusting.

The track guide is a McLaren, Hilton partner promotion. Hamilton has done track guides also.

#2563 skidmarks

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:35

So you admit you were talking crap before about Prost saying he needed to adapt.


I'm saying that Prost realises that there isn't the same scope to develop/test/setup the car these days. He's pointed out how things were in his era, and stops short of saying that Button needs to sort out something with his driving. After all, he pointed out that the "smooth" driving style is the issue.


#2564 jrg19

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:35

The track guide is a McLaren, Hilton partner promotion. Hamilton has done track guides also.


Lewis did the first 10 Jenson last 10.

#2565 OO7

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:38

Apart from looking pretty downbeat (no doubt due to another reliability problem), MW didn't really say anything to complain about in my opinion. He said Lewis was looking good for Pole, but Seb managed to eke out a little more an snatch it in the end. This of course is quite right and the RBR's have been mighty in the last sector all weekend.

#2566 Rocket73

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:38

Yeah that was a cheap shot from Sky :down:


god you guys are sooo damn sensitive...and i just heard them calling it a "'real hero's lap".

:rolleyes:

#2567 OO7

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:41

Lewis did the first 10 Jenson last 10.

Cheers jrg19, I didn't know that it was even first half and second half split.

#2568 P123

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:47

god you guys are sooo damn sensitive...and i just heard them calling it a "'real hero's lap".

:rolleyes:


True, as they did note that it was an indication of how hard Hamilton was pushing. However it was a bit of a :drunk: angle to take on analysis to headline it 'Hamilton Mistakes' given the amount of sliding we've seen from every car on every lap this weekend.

#2569 Nahnever

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:48

True, as they did note that it was an indication of how hard Hamilton was pushing. However it was a bit of a :drunk: angle to take on analysis to headline it 'Hamilton Mistakes' given the amount of sliding we've seen from every car on every lap this weekend.

It's more Davidson being the tool.

#2570 whitevisor

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:49

In the words of "Sizzla," You can't keep a good man down. Hamilton will win tomorrow.

#2571 f1fastestlap

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 19:54

god you guys are sooo damn sensitive...and i just heard them calling it a "'real hero's lap".

:rolleyes:

Well, they had to, after hill and herbert giving so much praise...

#2572 Coral

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:14

It's more Davidson being the tool.


At one point during FP3 Jenson had set a faster time than Lewis, and Lewis was asking how far off Jenson's time he was. Davidson and Croft then both seemed to think that Jenson would be faster than Lewis here because of his smooth driving style, saying how similar the track is to Suzuka which suits Jenson, bla bla bla. Then Lewis set the fastest time, and this was met with a disappointed-sounding "Lewis goes fastest..." from Croft and silence from Davidson. So funny! :lol:

#2573 OO7

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:35

At one point during FP3 Jenson had set a faster time than Lewis, and Lewis was asking how far off Jenson's time he was. Davidson and Croft then both seemed to think that Jenson would be faster than Lewis here because of his smooth driving style, saying how similar the track is to Suzuka which suits Jenson, bla bla bla. Then Lewis set the fastest time, and this was met with a disappointed-sounding "Lewis goes fastest..." from Croft and silence from Davidson. So funny! :lol:

I remember that Coral. They said it was unusual for Lewis to ask such a thing, (which is completely untrue and I had a discussion/argument with another poster about this earlier in the season) he does this very often. I remember during the Canadian GP this year, after the first stop while he was extending his lead over Fernando and Seb, he was still asking his race engineer what his weakest sector was and one must presume this was so he could improve upon it.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 17 November 2012 - 20:56.


#2574 SerratedEdge

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:56

Lewis did the first 10 Jenson last 10.



Dont let facts get in the way of some screeming FIX! :blush:

#2575 bauss

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 20:58

disappointed JB's car broke down...would have liked to see the gap btw the two in Q3.

Paddy Lowe trying to save his ass talking about this is one of the most reliable cars...lol wut, thats Iraqi Information Minister level of bullsh*t

#2576 SerratedEdge

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:03

disappointed JB's car broke down...would have liked to see the gap btw the two in Q3.

Paddy Lowe trying to save his ass talking about this is one of the most reliable cars...lol wut, thats Iraqi Information Minister level of bullsh*t



McLaren need to get their act together, embarrasing car faliures that you expect from teams like Catherham, Marussia and HRT :blush:

Ron Dennis had a face like thunder- clearly not happy.....and when Ron's not happy..............

Edited by SerratedEdge, 17 November 2012 - 21:04.


#2577 Ricardo F1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:04

McLaren need to get their act together embarrasing car faliures that you expect from teams like Catherham, Marussia and HRT :blush:

Ron Dennis had a face like thunder- clearly not happy.

Whitmarsh has to go. Paddy was rather unfortunate in his timing! Incredible job by Hamilton again.


#2578 peroa

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:06

disappointed JB's car broke down...would have liked to see the gap btw the two in Q3.

Paddy Lowe trying to save his ass talking about this is one of the most reliable cars...lol wut, thats Iraqi Information Minister level of bullsh*t

Yep, but that seems to be the current mentality there right know.

#2579 BernieEc

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:26

disappointed JB's car broke down...would have liked to see the gap btw the two in Q3.

Paddy Lowe trying to save his ass talking about this is one of the most reliable cars...lol wut, thats Iraqi Information Minister level of bullsh*t


Iraqi information minister (Comical ali) would still be proclaiming McLaren will win the title

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#2580 peroa

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 21:29

I think they can still win Ohio.

#2581 BernieEc

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:25

Does anyone know what happened to JB car. I heard whitmarsh say something to do with Electrical cut off or something like but he didn't seem too sure himself

#2582 karlth

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:27

Does anyone know what happened to JB car. I heard whitmarsh say something to do with Electrical cut off or something like but he didn't seem too sure himself


"Throttle pedal problem" was stated by Jenson and Martin in the post qualifying quotes.

#2583 kpchelsea

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 22:53

Sham, Button is a media darling - thats why they don't really criticise him.

One example that really stood out for me was when Hamilton overtaken him on track for position.

The post race show did not replay or mention it at all. It was swept completely under the carpet.

When that happens the viewer should start to wonder whats going on...

At the time they said there must be something wrong with Button's car

#2584 thesham01

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:10

So what are people's predictions for tomorrow?



#2585 ayali

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:20

So what are people's predictions for tomorrow?

Lewis DNF
Jenson 5th

#2586 Ricardo F1

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:36

I'd say that's depressingly likely.

#2587 kpchelsea

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Posted 17 November 2012 - 23:37

Every driver has his weaknesses but Prost manged 4 WDC's without solving that problem and he says that Jenson could achieve the same.

Prost won 3 of those WDC's in the out and out fastest car, can McLaren provide such a dominant car for Button?

#2588 dave12

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 00:46

Prost won 3 of those WDC's in the out and out fastest car, can McLaren provide such a dominant car for Button?

I don't see why not.

#2589 whitevisor

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:00

Qualifying score is 17 - 2 so far? or 16-3??

#2590 Sinceref189

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:08

I don't see why not.

LOL have you even been watching this year , even if they did him and the team would have to perform consistantly and on top of that make sure that reliability is on top form. the regulations ain't changing much next year so i don't expect dominance but even if mclaren are ,Red bull would out develop them and overall have been the class of the field.


#2591 Sinceref189

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 01:13

Qualifying score is 17 - 2 so far? or 16-3??

16-3 i think button out qualified him in germany,spa and suzuka

#2592 rileyl

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 03:36

At one point during FP3 Jenson had set a faster time than Lewis, and Lewis was asking how far off Jenson's time he was. Davidson and Croft then both seemed to think that Jenson would be faster than Lewis here because of his smooth driving style, saying how similar the track is to Suzuka which suits Jenson, bla bla bla. Then Lewis set the fastest time, and this was met with a disappointed-sounding "Lewis goes fastest..." from Croft and silence from Davidson. So funny! :lol:


Yeah, those 2 suckers were excited and sounds like Button going to win the world.........Lewis did a hero lap in Q3, I am sure McLaren would miss him next year; especically when Button got kick out again in Q2 next year and moaned for "balance problem" or "i need more pace from the car, this is the worse car that I've driven for my life"

#2593 Lazy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:24

Prost won 3 of those WDC's in the out and out fastest car, can McLaren provide such a dominant car for Button?


He also outscored Senna in their time together in the process, and would have won both WDC's were it not for the 11 best results rule, despite being beaten something like 30-5 in qualifying.

#2594 OO7

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:31

He also outscored Senna in their time together in the process, and would have won both WDC's were it not for the 11 best results rule, despite being beaten something like 30-5 in qualifying.

I wonder how things would look between JB and Lewis points wise if we used that same system to assess their rivalry thus far? Come to think of I'm sure this was being done somewhere on the board, comparing the different scoring systems.

Edited by Obi Offiah, 18 November 2012 - 07:03.


#2595 Lazy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:50

I wonder how things would look between JB and Lewis points wise if we used that same system to access their rivalry thus far? Come to think of I'm sure this was being done somewhere on the board, comparing the different scoring systems.


I think it would still be 2-1 in seasons, points wise would take a bit of work but I'd guess it would be to Lewis' advantage.

#2596 Ricardo F1

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:52

Lewis had a miserable 2011, for all manner of reasons. Without that and some bizarre turns of fate it's not even that close. Probably closer than many thought it might have been when Jenson signed, but then Jenson has always been underrated by many.

#2597 PARAZAR

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 06:56

MARTIN WHITMARSH

Team principal, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

"Today we saw an extremely exciting qualifying session, in which Lewis and Seb [Vettel] traded fastest laps in the later stages of Q3, both men at the absolute peak of their form.

"In the end, Lewis just failed to score what would have been his 26th pole position in Formula 1, but it was mighty close.

"Jenson suffered a throttle pedal problem in Q2, which prevented him from being able to cut a really fast lap. That was disappointing for us and frustrating for him, obviously, but he’s a brilliantly canny racer and he’ll surely make good progress in tomorrow’s race from his P12 starting slot.

"As for Lewis’s race prospects, well, you may be well sure that he’ll be tremendously determined to go one better tomorrow than he did today. In a nutshell, he’ll be aiming to win. He did a good long run yesterday, so, although we never under-estimate our opposition, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t do just that.

"McLaren has won a total of 11 grands prix on US soil, and it would be awesome if we could make that a dozen tomorrow."

I don't see what's wrong with what MW said.

http://www.mclaren.c...rix--qualifying

#2598 Rocket73

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:02

some will always twist it the way they want mate..

#2599 Kyo

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:06

He also outscored Senna in their time together in the process, and would have won both WDC's were it not for the 11 best results rule, despite being beaten something like 30-5 in qualifying.

28-4 by an average of 0.737s. If not for Senna having 7 mechanicals problems against 3 plus his DSQ in Japan, Prost would have been soundly beaten both years.

Anyway, Prost beat Lauda, Rosberg and Hill in qualifying when he won 3 of his WDC. In reality he only lost to Senna in qualifying, so saying he was a poor qualifier is a complete nonsense, pretty different from Button situation. Button lost to Ralf, Fisichella, Trulli, Barrichello and Hamilton.

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#2600 Lazy

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Posted 18 November 2012 - 07:13

28-4 by an average of 0.737s. If not for Senna having 7 mechanicals problems against 3 plus his DSQ in Japan, Prost would have been soundly beaten both years.

Anyway, Prost beat Lauda, Rosberg and Hill in qualifying when he won 3 of his WDC. In reality he only lost to Senna in qualifying, so saying he was a poor qualifier is a complete nonsense, pretty different from Button situation. Button lost to Ralf, Fisichella, Trulli, Barrichello and Hamilton.


It is a remarkable coincidence that drivers who are easy on their car and make a conscious effort to be so, have less mechanical failures than their more aggressive team mates.

Hamilton has beaten Button by an average of 0.2s, so unless your saying Hamilton is an average qualifier, Button isn't bad either.