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Jenson vs Lewis - 2012 Scorecard - Part III


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#3151 Dalton007

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:53

true and when a driver is taken out of the race through no fault of his own the other driver who was falling away from the lead wins he is lucky


Button must have been lucky to be 50 seconds ahead of Lewis too. :)

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#3152 revlec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:53

This is crazy... I know some people will hold on to this stat to somehow demonstrate that the two were more or less equal which is absurd...


lol.. don't be surprised by this.. :)

#3153 TomNokoe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:55

As a Hamilton fan, I was embarrassed for Lewis after a genius tyre strategy from Jenson AGAIN, along with being overtaken on track. The safety car proved Lewis was faster eventually, but Jenson beat him on strategy again.


#3154 robefc

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:56

Even with Hamilton and the so called frickin' Hulk pulling away in the second stint - you'd have been a brave man to hedge your bets either way today.

Probably the closest performance I've seen between them...... Ironically at the last race.

If a full "win" is worth 1....... then I'd call this weekend 0.5 in JB's favour....... could have easily been the other way though...........


JB gets the point for me due to taking the lead and then overruling the team to stay out.

But I was thinking the same thing about it being a perfect example of how close they were...only it was supposed to end with Lewis winning! :p

#3155 Force Ten

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:57

true and when a driver is taken out of the race through no fault of his own the other driver who was falling away from the lead wins he is lucky

And when a 55 second lead gets annihilated by the safety car this is not lucky for the guy who benefits how?

#3156 jrg19

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:58

2-1.

Because of Vettels points last season does that mean he wins next season too even if he comes second be only a few points?

#3157 speng

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:59

Button must have been lucky to be 50 seconds ahead of Lewis too. :)

One of my ealier post states that Hamilton lucky with the safety car and Button lucky with Hulk taking out Hamilton.

#3158 revlec

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 18:59

Even with Hamilton and the so called frickin' Hulk pulling away in the second stint - you'd have been a brave man to hedge your bets either way today.

Probably the closest performance I've seen between them...... Ironically at the last race.

If a full "win" is worth 1....... then I'd call this weekend 0.5 in JB's favour....... could have easily been the other way though...........


IMHO this is by far HAM's weakest track(few heavy braking points).. I was surprised he was fighting with BUT and HULK. Before the race, I expected BUT to be P1.

#3159 maverick69

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:00

And when a 55 second lead gets annihilated by the safety car this is not lucky for the guy who benefits how?


So external events such as the safety car only apply to Button now?

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#3160 robefc

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:02

From the perspective of Lewis having been distanced from the team over the course of the last 3 years and JB replacing him/being closer to them etc...JB winning and Lewis having a DNF and the contrasting emotions of celebration with sadness of Lewis leaving...sort of seems sadly poignant.

As I write this JB showing his class in interview with Sky

Edited by robefc, 25 November 2012 - 19:02.


#3161 maverick69

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:03

IMHO this is by far HAM's weakest track(few heavy braking points).. I was surprised he was fighting with BUT and HULK. Before the race, I expected BUT to be P1.


Defo not his best track - but he was making up a lot of time in the middle sector ironically...... when one would think that he would be gaining time braking into T1.

Classic short track phenomenon :)

#3162 Disgrace

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:03

Button 672

Hamilton 657


Even without getting into the detail, Button has done astoundingly well against Hamilton over three seasons, much better than most of us would have expected.

Getting into the detail, Button being only three points behind Hamilton at the end of the this year is a bit of a calamity given the latter's technical DNFs and being taken out several times.

#3163 skyform

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:06

Posted Image

'nuff said

/thread


+ Two DNF's in lead, DQ from pole and crashed out in lead. Vettel had one DNF in lead and DQ from one pole?


#3164 Coral

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:07

From the perspective of Lewis having been distanced from the team over the course of the last 3 years and JB replacing him/being closer to them etc...JB winning and Lewis having a DNF and the contrasting emotions of celebration with sadness of Lewis leaving...sort of seems sadly poignant.


It does, doesn't it? I am not surprised it has finished up like this...as someone has already said, this race has been a microcosm of Lewis and Jenson's time together at McLaren. It's very sad, Lewis deserved better. Anyway, what's done is done. On to next season!



#3165 robefc

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:08

+ Two DNF's in lead, DQ from pole and crashed out in lead. Vettel had one DNF in lead and DQ from one pole?


It is sodding annoying, putting the WDC fight to one side, how many potential wins have been lost,

8 wins over a season rather than 4 and 25 wins rather than 21 wins in a career so far are pretty significant stat changes

#3166 PARAZAR

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:21

From the perspective of Lewis having been distanced from the team over the course of the last 3 years and JB replacing him/being closer to them etc...JB winning and Lewis having a DNF and the contrasting emotions of celebration with sadness of Lewis leaving...sort of seems sadly poignant.

As I write this JB showing his class in interview with Sky


What did he say?

#3167 pingu666

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:31

button is occasionaly as good or maybe better, but hes had more luck/good fortune/had things fall his way, and most of the time hes pretty close to lewis.

jenson is better with the media and playing politics, which is pretty handy in f1.

#3168 tkulla

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:31

Even had Lewis finished 30-40 points ahead of Jenson for the 3-year total that still puts them "on the same level" or "in the same league".

Remember the Button had the disadvantage of joining a new team in this comparison as well, and had his share of bad luck too.

Then again, if such a simple thing can't be acknowledged over three whole years I supposed it's silly for me to expect it now.

I'm looking forward to next year... might put some money down on Jenson winning that 2nd WDC.  ;)

#3169 choyothe

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:40

Hamilton was slightly better in 2010.

Button was clearly better in 2011.

Hamilton was even more clearly better in 2012.

#3170 gincarnated

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:45

Do the Button fans really believe he is on the same level of Lewis/Alonso/Vettel and probably Kimi? He's had two opportunities to challenge for the WDC now in 2010 and 2012 and was nowhere when it counted. How can you seriously say that he's on Lewis' level after those seasons?

#3171 Realyn

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:49

Do the Button fans really believe he is on the same level of Lewis/Alonso/Vettel and probably Kimi? He's had two opportunities to challenge for the WDC now in 2010 and 2012 and was nowhere when it counted. How can you seriously say that he's on Lewis' level after those seasons?

So, Lewis was where exactly in 2010 and 2012? Twittering important stuff?

#3172 Watkins74

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:49

This is crazy... I know some people will hold on to this stat to somehow demonstrate that the two were more or less equal which is absurd...


Hey Man, don't kill the messenger. Someone asked for the total and I provided it.

#3173 inca_roads

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:50

When the safety car came out I thought it might be just once, as it was his last race, a piece of good fortune for Lewis. Button was better overall in the first laps and the tyre decision meant he'd be impossible to catch. Once the SC brought Lewis back in to it he was then the better of the two and I thought it'd be rather ironic if he ended their time as team-mates with a somewhat fortunate win. It was silly of me to even think that though, as was shown a few laps later. His last 5 wins have been followed immediately by a no-fault DNF. Unbelievable.

#3174 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:51

Even had Lewis finished 30-40 points ahead of Jenson for the 3-year total that still puts them "on the same level" or "in the same league".

Remember the Button had the disadvantage of joining a new team in this comparison as well, and had his share of bad luck too.

Then again, if such a simple thing can't be acknowledged over three whole years I supposed it's silly for me to expect it now.

I'm looking forward to next year... might put some money down on Jenson winning that 2nd WDC. ;)


that's a nice idea..i wonder what odds you can get for that :)

afterall he did beat the mighty TDG haha

#3175 Force Ten

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:51

Do the Button fans really believe he is on the same level of Lewis/Alonso/Vettel and probably Kimi? He's had two opportunities to challenge for the WDC now in 2010 and 2012 and was nowhere when it counted. How can you seriously say that he's on Lewis' level after those seasons?

What is most important to us Button fans is to constantly compare him to relative merits to Lewis/Alonso/Vettel and probably Kimi, go to the threads discussing those drivers, pull Button out of our back pocket and rub with him the noses of the fans of said other drivers. If we cannot drag the other drivers down we collectively feel that our day hasn't really been worth the while.

#3176 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 19:59

Do the Button fans really believe he is on the same level of Lewis/Alonso/Vettel and probably Kimi? He's had two opportunities to challenge for the WDC now in 2010 and 2012 and was nowhere when it counted. How can you seriously say that he's on Lewis' level after those seasons?


where was lewis in those seasons? soooo bored of this bolox

#3177 stanga

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:00

where was lewis in those seasons? soooo bored of this bolox


See ya then!

#3178 jrg19

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:01

Why is this being discussed?

It finished 2-1.

Lewis with more poles and wins.

Forum consensus put Lewis on a higher level.

#3179 tifosiMac

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:05

Hamilton won the teammate battle, but Button did well too. I'm happy I was right about Lewis being the better of the two, but will also say I underestimated Button at the start. An enjoyable 3 seasons together.

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#3180 gincarnated

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:08

So, Lewis was where exactly in 2010 and 2012? Twittering important stuff?

In the WDC hunt until around Singapore in both seasons. He really should have won the WDC in 2010 had he been more cautios at Monza and Singapore. Both pointless crashes, though I only really blame him for Monza as I think the move around the ouside of Webber at Singapore was superb. In regards to 2012, well, he's been pretty much perfect as far as i'm concerned.

#3181 Darth Sidious

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:08

/thread for me.

I know what I've witnessed over the last three years and am more than comfortable with my own conclusions.

Good luck to Jenson next year.

Anybody wanna buy a rocket-red t-shirt? Medium, only worn 21 times.

I'm outta here......

#3182 GiancarloF1

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:14

It's a disgrace, that Button almost finished ahead of Hamilton in points this year. They were driving in a different league.

#3183 AMG FAN

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:17

Says it all really

Fittingly Lewis finished off by crashing because of a back-marker after winning because of a back-marker in Texas
The winner overall imo after 3 years of McLaren is Jenson Button

Well done Jense :up:

Hamilton has beat him in two seasons and has more race wins...the only arguement that even makes sense is that both are evenly matched.

#3184 AMG FAN

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:19

where was lewis in those seasons? soooo bored of this bolox

am equally bored of the blind Jenson fans who would say anything to convince themselves that Jenson was better.

#3185 Dalton007

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:22

2-1 to Lewis is a fair result. Classy interview on the BBC website from Jenson. Interesting to note that Jenson grained the hard fronts for several laps and then the tyre was coming back when HULK slid into Lewis. I was wondering why he was struggling to match Lewis and Hulk on those tyres.

#3186 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:26

am equally bored of the blind Jenson fans who would say anything to convince themselves that Jenson was better.


read my posts...and for clarity i said that jb BEAT lewis over 3 years NOT that he is better than him..there is a difference...something that is lost in this thread

#3187 jrg19

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:29

read my posts...and for clarity i said that jb BEAT lewis over 3 years NOT that he is better than him..there is a difference...something that is lost in this thread


Where did he beat him?

Just so you know points don't get carried over each season...

#3188 AMG FAN

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:31

read my posts...and for clarity i said that jb BEAT lewis over 3 years NOT that he is better than him..there is a difference...something that is lost in this thread

when i say better i mean in terms of performance as teammates and Button did beat Lewis if you consider only points and that is being blind....as i said,if anything they are evenly matched so far in their time together.

#3189 PARAZAR

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:33

2-1 to Lewis is a fair result. Classy interview on the BBC website from Jenson. Interesting to note that Jenson grained the hard fronts for several laps and then the tyre was coming back when HULK slid into Lewis. I was wondering why he was struggling to match Lewis and Hulk on those tyres.


What did he say?

#3190 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:35

when i say better i mean in terms of performance as teammates and Button did beat Lewis if you consider only points and that is being blind....as i said,if anything they are evenly matched so far in their time together.


yeah points dont count for much

#3191 jrg19

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:37

yeah points dont count for much


They way you score it Vettel would have been champion 5 races ago???

It doesn't work like that.

If it was for WDC it would be Lewis 2xWDC Jenson 1xWDC, would you still consider that a JB victory?

#3192 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:37

when i say better i mean in terms of performance as teammates and Button did beat Lewis if you consider only points and that is being blind....as i said,if anything they are evenly matched so far in their time together.


in a post a few days ago i stated that i thought overall that lewis the better f1 driver, he is exceptional, but it's marginal and can you really blame me for being over the moon that over 3 years jb has more points? i dont think so

#3193 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:40

They way you score it Vettel would have been champion 5 races ago???

It doesn't work like that.

If it was for WDC it would be Lewis 2xWDC Jenson 1xWDC, would you still consider that a JB victory?


if JB had the machinery that lewis had since his debut in f1 he would be multiple WDC..this thread would be non-existent or at least with a completely different atmosphere...

did you consider that? probably not

#3194 garoidb

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:40

Do the Button fans really believe he is on the same level of Lewis/Alonso/Vettel and probably Kimi? He's had two opportunities to challenge for the WDC now in 2010 and 2012 and was nowhere when it counted. How can you seriously say that he's on Lewis' level after those seasons?


[Elephant in the room] Lewis did not challenge particularly strongly for those WDCs either. They both got the same # of WDCs over their period as team-mates.

And wasn't there a year in between 2010 and 2012?

#3195 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:42

[Elephant in the room] Lewis did not challenge particularly strongly for those WDCs either. They both got the same # of WDCs over their period as team-mates.

And wasn't there a year in between 2010 and 2012?


shhhh of course not!

#3196 jrg19

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:43

if JB had the machinery that lewis had since his debut in f1 he would be multiple WDC..this thread would be non-existent or at least with a completely different atmosphere...

did you consider that? probably not


Im not talking about that, 2-1 in the standings over 3 seasons is a Lewis win... Im trying to put it into perspective that points as important as they are aren't carried over.



#3197 thesham01

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:45

if JB had the machinery that lewis had since his debut in f1 he would be multiple WDC..this thread would be non-existent or at least with a completely different atmosphere...

did you consider that? probably not


:rolleyes:

#3198 SerratedEdge

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:47

its going to be interesting next year if mclaren adopt a no1/no2. If they do it'll really show whitmarsh in this true colours.



Or it will show McLaren have realised equal drivers means drivers taking points off each other costs the team Driver and Constructor titles?

Ferrari and Red Bull have clear number one and two drivers and they have been winning the Drivers and Constructor titles whilst McLaren have won nothing.......

Edited by SerratedEdge, 25 November 2012 - 21:07.


#3199 Rocket73

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:48

Or it will show McLaren have realised have two equal drivers means drivers taking points off each other costs the team Driver and Constructor titles?

Ferrari and Red Bull have clear number one and two drivers and they have been winning the Drivers and Constructor titles whilst McLaren have won nothing.......


it is true..bring on 2013

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#3200 jerriy

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Posted 25 November 2012 - 20:49

+ Two DNF's in lead, DQ from pole and crashed out in lead. Vettel had one DNF in lead and DQ from one pole?

What's Vettel got to do with this thread?

I posted the race-winner list pic for the purpose of the relevant topic at hand.

Edited by jerriy, 25 November 2012 - 20:51.