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Schumacher gets 10 place grid penalty for Japan


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#1 Sof1

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:27

His engineer seems pissed off. "What happened there?"

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#2 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:27

That team radio said it all. I'm gobsmacked.


#3 Shambolic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:29

"What happened there?"

You ****ed up yet another stragey call, stuck your driver behind slow, erratic cars, and then had him in the middle of two cars brake testing each other in the run up to a corner.

Yes, it was a bit of a strange one from Schumacher, but FFS Mercedes, if you put your drivers in the mid field not only through shit design, but inexplicably poor strategy calls, you're going to run a higher risk of shit happening.

I really don't want MS to retire, but if it's retirement or more of this bullshit in the silver donkey...

#4 GoRacing

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:29

That team radio said it all. I'm gobsmacked.


Add to this a 5 or 10 spot grid penalty for the next race.

#5 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:31

Ouch. Looked like a blatant piece of breaking too late. And that radio message...

#6 Massa_f1

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:33

Who was that on the radio? i know it was a massive fu** up by Schumacher but it was a strange radio message.

#7 Shambolic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:34

Michael has cut down his errors from last year to two, but both have been pretty large and messy crashes. Pretty embarrassing for a 7XWDC.


The Senna one was put as a racing incident/ majkority blame on Senna by various others outside the stewards box that day - Senna moved and dithered around in the braking area, and as Scarbs put it (IIRC), that robbed his car of downforce, thus massively reducing braking efficiency - Result was a big crunch.

Today though, I think Vernge and Perez were fumbling over each other, and Schumacher seemed to have nowhere to go, though he was going in a touch hot to say the least.

What's embarrassing is how Merc can bring upgrades, buy the best available brains for the start of the year, yet still manage to go backwards with strategy and design. WTF was Schumacher even doing being stuck in 12th behind those two, especialyl when teh car BEHIND him managed to pit in reaction to the safety car and it took Merc till the next lap to pit MS? WTF were Merc doing running SS tyres from the start having wasted their chance to run in Q3, when they may have made up a spot or two if they'd turned a competitive wheel?

MS still has speed, maybe not as much as in his prime, but certainly enough to still be in a good seat in F1. He has racecraft, though this afternoon has looked a little strange. What he sadly also has is a team with all teh right ingredients for success, blended together and put in the oven in completely the wrong order.

#8 Sof1

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:36

Who was that on the radio? i know it was a massive fu** up by Schumacher but it was a strange radio message.


The message seemed a bit scolding. Thats disrespectful kind of.

#9 Disgrace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:37

The Senna one was put as a racing incident/ majkority blame on Senna by various others outside the stewards box that day - Senna moved and dithered around in the braking area, and as Scarbs put it (IIRC), that robbed his car of downforce, thus massively reducing braking efficiency - Result was a big crunch.

Today though, I think Vernge and Perez were fumbling over each other, and Schumacher seemed to have nowhere to go, though he was going in a touch hot to say the least.


He had all the distance between himself and JEV/Perez. He was not in a position to overtake as he was too far back. He had a lot of space "to go." His line wasn't taken away from him. He either misjudged it badly or there might have been a technical fault.

Edited by Disgrace, 23 September 2012 - 13:37.


#10 MajorRichard

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:38

The message seemed a bit scolding. Thats disrespectful kind of.


Not good at all - that guy can **** off :clap:

#11 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:39

The Senna one was put as a racing incident/ majkority blame on Senna by various others outside the stewards box that day - Senna moved and dithered around in the braking area, and as Scarbs put it (IIRC), that robbed his car of downforce, thus massively reducing braking efficiency - Result was a big crunch.

Today though, I think Vernge and Perez were fumbling over each other, and Schumacher seemed to have nowhere to go, though he was going in a touch hot to say the least.

What's embarrassing is how Merc can bring upgrades, buy the best available brains for the start of the year, yet still manage to go backwards with strategy and design. WTF was Schumacher even doing being stuck in 12th behind those two, especialyl when teh car BEHIND him managed to pit in reaction to the safety car and it took Merc till the next lap to pit MS? WTF were Merc doing running SS tyres from the start having wasted their chance to run in Q3, when they may have made up a spot or two if they'd turned a competitive wheel?

MS still has speed, maybe not as much as in his prime, but certainly enough to still be in a good seat in F1. He has racecraft, though this afternoon has looked a little strange. What he sadly also has is a team with all teh right ingredients for success, blended together and put in the oven in completely the wrong order.

I think in this topic pretty much everybody finally agreed that Barcelona wasn't Schumachers mistake, i think the two mistakes involve today and Hungary :)

Add to this a 5 or 10 spot grid penalty for the next race.

In Suzuka... great :/ I really hope that won't happen.

Tyre pressures too low I guess.....maybe Perez braked too early


Or maybe he is just too old....or too shit....or maybe he is a cheater....


1994 Adelaide!!!!!!!!!!


1997 Jerez!!!!!!!!!


OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!

You drunk? Or new maybe?

Who was that on the radio? i know it was a massive fu** up by Schumacher but it was a strange radio message.

Strange it was. Was that even his own engineer? At least a massively fed up one.

#12 SenorSjon

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:41

Yet again...

Silverstone last year: to much speed on wet with first time DRS. Loses front wing while hitting Kobayashi.
Singapore last year: Perez is moving slowly with worn tires.
Spain: Senna is moving slowly with worn tires.
Singapore: Perez is moving slowly with worn tires. In a brake fest with Vergne, Schumacher is too late.

From the old box
Monaoo 2004(?) the famous Montoya tunnel incident, so in his first career he woud have preferred brake lights as well.




#13 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:44

Jejking.....you've been on here long enough to understsnd sarcasm.

I was preparing myself for the jibes that will be on here until the next race re Schumacher and all the trolls that will have a field day. It hass been 4 months since Barcelona you know.....

PS been on here since 2001. No rookie here.

Edited by Ferrari_F1_fan_2001, 23 September 2012 - 13:46.


#14 SenorSjon

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:50

Hmmm, consindering the accidents, they 4 out of 5 were in low light conditions (tunnel, night race, rain)

Add the DC 1998 crash (dark, low visibility) and I think a trip to the eye doctor would be in place.;)

#15 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:51

Jejking.....you've been on here long enough to understsnd sarcasm.

I was preparing myself for the jibes that will be on here until the next race re Schumacher and all the trolls that will have a field day. It hass been 4 months since Barcelona you know.....

PS been on here since 2001. No rookie here.

Misread the username in the mayhem combined with the racethread, really thought you were a newbie here, hehe. Apologies mate.Q

#16 exmayol

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:52

Planned on watching the race recorded but I guess now I only need to the the actual crash and save myself 2 hours.

#17 Diablobb81

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:52

I have rarely seen him so down. :(

On the incident : he braked normally, car wouldn't stop.

Edited by Diablobb81, 23 September 2012 - 13:52.


#18 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:54

I have rarely seen him so down. :(

On the incident : he braked normally, car wouldn't stop.

It's even stranger. Schumacher now admits on telly he even braked EARLIER than he would normally do but no reaction came from the car.

#19 Lelouch

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:55

It's even stranger. Schumacher now admits on telly he even braked EARLIER than he would normally do but no reaction came from the car.

any chance this is related to the break issues he had yesterday? something like that was reported wasn't it?

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#20 george1981

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:57

It's even stranger. Schumacher now admits on telly he even braked EARLIER than he would normally do but no reaction came from the car.


Presumably the telemetry should back that up when he visits the stewards.

#21 Shambolic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:57

I think in this topic pretty much everybody finally agreed that Barcelona wasn't Schumachers mistake, i think the two mistakes involve today and Hungary :)


I read the forum a fair few times a day, though rarely post - So maybe I got my "not Schumacher fans" confused a little, as there's at least one who kept on banging on about Spain being a Schumacher brainfade.

So Hungary.. That'll be the one where Whiting clearly needs to read the rules, and Koba might have wanted to pull into his slot a bit quicker, yes?

In Suzuka... great :/ I really hope that won't happen.


Passing isn't impossible there, though the fast sweeping corners don't lend well to it. But better (if he does get a penalty) Suzuka than Monaco. Though all those weeks ago, the Merc was almost back of the leading pack for that race, as opposed to front of the midfield dawdlers now..

You drunk?


Don't know about him, but I'm working on being. Maybe I need to change tipple to bring better luck next time.

Strange it was. Was that even his own engineer? At least a massively fed up one.


I know Schumacher is legendary for not blaming the team, but just once I'd like to hear a reply along the lines of "You screwed my strategy and gave me a shitbox of a car, that's what happened/ went wrong"

#22 Urawa

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:57

brake issues were reported the whole weekend, so who knows

#23 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:59

Presumably the telemetry should back that up when he visits the stewards.

Jep.

any chance this is related to the break issues he had yesterday? something like that was reported wasn't it?

I have not a clue, I didn't follow that story actually.

#24 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:01

I read the forum a fair few times a day, though rarely post - So maybe I got my "not Schumacher fans" confused a little, as there's at least one who kept on banging on about Spain being a Schumacher brainfade.

So Hungary.. That'll be the one where Whiting clearly needs to read the rules, and Koba might have wanted to pull into his slot a bit quicker, yes?



Passing isn't impossible there, though the fast sweeping corners don't lend well to it. But better (if he does get a penalty) Suzuka than Monaco. Though all those weeks ago, the Merc was almost back of the leading pack for that race, as opposed to front of the midfield dawdlers now..



Don't know about him, but I'm working on being. Maybe I need to change tipple to bring better luck next time.



I know Schumacher is legendary for not blaming the team, but just once I'd like to hear a reply along the lines of "You screwed my strategy and gave me a shitbox of a car, that's what happened/ went wrong"

1. Yep, there's one but even he can't keep up his claim.

2. Whiting indeed was stupid. But Kobayashi-gate wasn't proved or asked to Schumacher ever so that'll remain a vague one.

3. -

4. It's not in his nature. Behind the scenes I think he IS able to pull out a scene if he feels like it.

#25 Sakae

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:06

What a day; I am somewhat lost what is going on.

#26 Junky

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:39

Schumacher: "First of all, after the Safety Car, I braked a bit earlier than I would normally do, but the car wouldn't decelerate, so I need to investigate why that is the case. I just went straight in the brakes very hard, locked up everything... the accident wasn't avoidable anymore. I feel sorry for Jean-√Čric, and for the guys and for the team, but we need to find out what happened."

#27 race addicted

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:41

Surely that was a mech. problem!? The guy coming on the radio, who was that, was it really Pollock? I didn't think he could be such a ****.

#28 Jejking

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:43

It was a day to forget quickly but hey, at least everybody's alive!

#29 sharo

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:43

Surely that was a mech. problem!? The guy coming on the radio, who was that, was it really Pollock? I didn't think he could be such a ****.

Maybe finally the mole undug himself ? :)

#30 Atonal

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:44

What was said over the radio...sorry I wasn't able to hear it?

#31 topical

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:45

If it was a brake issue the telemetry will back it up. If not then it's surely time to give him a 1 race ban.

#32 sanW10

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:51

I know Schumacher is legendary for not blaming the team, but just once I'd like to hear a reply along the lines of "You screwed my strategy and gave me a shitbox of a car, that's what happened/ went wrong"

haahaahaahaa
the nerve of that guy on radio. instead of asking whether he is okay or not, he goes on about the incident.
----
& thanks a lot Merc for employing noobs for strategist, isnt it time they change tose people who come up with the same stupid strategy every frikin time. DAMN!!!!!!!


#33 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 14:52

Sometimes it's hard not to engage with certain elements here. But I guess I'm just too down right now to do anything - sort of hoping for a tech error, because I sure as hell didn't like Schumacher's demeanor in the post-race interview.

And the race pace, particularly on the SS, was terrible.

Edited by PoliFanAthic, 23 September 2012 - 14:53.


#34 derstatic

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:04

Whole thing looked very strange. Difficult to believe you could lose it so badly if the car was working properly. The speed difference was huge and the front brakes locked up completely. I would say either a brake failure or the throttle didn't come off as it should have.

#35 schubacca

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:04

Sorry guys,

Can someone tell me what exactly the engineer said to MS after the crash?

I missed it unfortunately....


Thanks

#36 bsoares

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:06

Sorry guys,

Can someone tell me what exactly the engineer said to MS after the crash?

I missed it unfortunately....


Thanks



If I recall correctly the race engineer said: "What happened there? What happened?"

#37 Sakae

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:14

Optics of the whole scene do not look, regardless of facts. If that person on the radio said what I think he said whilst being on the open channel, I would be displeased immensely, should he remain employed longer than twelve hours from now. Stewards' report on their investigations of the incident isn't out yet. (At least I couldn't find it on FiA's site).

Edited by Sakae, 23 September 2012 - 15:14.


#38 ali_M

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:19

Whole thing looked very strange. Difficult to believe you could lose it so badly if the car was working properly. The speed difference was huge and the front brakes locked up completely. I would say either a brake failure or the throttle didn't come off as it should have.


I'm hoping this is the case since if nothing was really wrong with the car, this was a serious error in judgement. It would seem that Schumi may be realizing that his dream comeback is turning out the way he hoped and that time has run out both in terms of car improvement and his being able to keep himself up to the task. I expect him to retire if this incident isn't proven to have resulted from a mechanical failure.

#39 Sakae

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:29

I'm hoping this is the case since if nothing was really wrong with the car, this was a serious error in judgement. It would seem that Schumi may be realizing that his dream comeback is turning out the way he hoped and that time has run out both in terms of car improvement and his being able to keep himself up to the task. I expect him to retire if this incident isn't proven to have resulted from a mechanical failure.

I fear that Michael could be facing potentially a race ban if this is not evaluated as an equipment failure.

Edited by Sakae, 23 September 2012 - 15:29.


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#40 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:39

I fear that Michael could be facing potentially a race ban if this is not evaluated as an equipment failure.

race ban for hitting somebody under braking?
was kimi race banned in monaco for hitting sutil? wtfk?!

#41 iakhtar

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:43

gonna have to wait for the fia report, it looked like he braked hard but i really can't tell for sure.

#42 Disgrace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:44

I'm hoping this is the case since if nothing was really wrong with the car, this was a serious error in judgement. It would seem that Schumi may be realizing that his dream comeback is turning out the way he hoped and that time has run out both in terms of car improvement and his being able to keep himself up to the task. I expect him to retire if this incident isn't proven to have resulted from a mechanical failure.


I have to agree. If Michael has nobody to blame but himself then it could weigh heavily in the making of that decision as it was an awful crash. If the roles were reversed and a Toro Rosso went into the back of 7XWDC, the outrage would be palpable.

#43 MSCDesign

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:48

official press release

Michael Schumacher
It was obviously a very unfortunate ending to my race this evening when I ran into the car of Vergne who accepted my apology straight afterwards. I am not totally sure why it happened like this; I was braking but the deceleration was not as strong as it usually would be, and I could not avoid running into the car in front of me. We have to find out what has happened. Up until then, I think it would have been possible to get some points this evening.



#44 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:59

I am hoping that Michael will come out of it unharmed, and car gets fixed, trust me on that, yet, FiA has not been known to be fair, unbiased, or always correct, and should they deemed this o be a diver's error, and took large picture over the season, result not might be a very pleasing one. Michael had a collision before this year.

sure, but pastor had quite a few more and nothing really happened.

if we're at it and MS is investigated they should investigate Kobayashi, Perez, Hulkenberg for those late laps battles. they touched like crazy

#45 halifaxf1fan

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:00

race ban for hitting somebody under braking?
was kimi race banned in monaco for hitting sutil? wtfk?!


The track was wet in Monaco.

#46 Yellowmc

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:02

Didn't really look like a driver mistake, rather a mechanical problem considering how unstable the car looked under braking. I'll give the benefit to michael in this case and wait to hear more on the incident but lovely to see everyone jumping on his throat, he's one of the greatest drivers to ever jump into an F1 car, the most successful on the grid and now older than the rest and still mixing it up with the young guns yet people fail to give him the respect he doesn't just deserve but has well and truly earned.

#47 george1981

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:08

They went through it on Sky, I think Antony Davidson was of the opinion it was driver error. What was interesting is that MS's front left locked first when they would have expected his front right to lock first.
I've got a feeling he got caught out on the bumps, his front right being off the ground when he braked, the car didn't slow down as much as he expected and he then braked harder, this locked the front left and then the front right when it touched the ground.

#48 SeanValen

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:29

Didn't really look like a driver mistake, rather a mechanical problem considering how unstable the car looked under braking. I'll give the benefit to michael in this case and wait to hear more on the incident but lovely to see everyone jumping on his throat, he's one of the greatest drivers to ever jump into an F1 car, the most successful on the grid and now older than the rest and still mixing it up with the young guns yet people fail to give him the respect he doesn't just deserve but has well and truly earned.


Because it happened in the same place as last year, the commentators are quick to assign fault like some people might. I had my initial impressions, but after seeing alot of incidents, and given the car was racing at speed after a safety car, given the break issues on the weekend, given the nature of racing, bumps etc Schumacher hit a mental like cone at albert park 2006 when pushing hard, when your racing for tehtns at speed, small things on track and where you break, you can get unlucky where you exactly drive, the racing line may be limited on racing tracks at times, but even centmetres here or there can make a difference in slowing down/traction.

Peformance wise merc have still things to prove. MS has had a run of finishes until today, but his run of finishes are races where mercedes haven't pishe performance, and when he was last making use of mercedes performance/monaco where he poled, the car failed, and failed before or the team left him down, mercedes still haven't gotten it together with him on his favorite tracks or any track really. Totally a pitty given the talents of the man, but the true f1 fans who appreciate some perservance/hardwork/never give up, will understand it's why many will keep expecting things to go right for him at some point, right up until the last lap at whatever last race he has.

Edited by SeanValen, 23 September 2012 - 16:33.


#49 Disgrace

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:31

Because it happened in the same place as last year, the commentators are quick to assign fault like some people might.


No it did not.

#50 MSCDesign

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 16:32

10 grid penalty