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Where are the track limits? [merged]


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#1 Peter Perfect

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 13:41

The number of drivers who have seemingly just ignored the white lines used to mark the edge of the track during the race is quite noticeable. Is it just not being enforced because everyone's doing it?

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#2 Wingcommander

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 15:11

The number of drivers who have seemingly just ignored the white lines used to mark the edge of the track during the race is quite noticeable. Is it just not being enforced because everyone's doing it?


A concrete barrier should do the trick.

#3 August

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:19

After Webbo's penalty, I am wondering where are the track limits, inside which you must have two wheels? White lines would be the obvious answer. But what about kerbs? Drivers often have their inside wheels inside the inside kerbs and outside tyres on the kerbs, inside the white line. So, obviously kerbs are regarded as a part of track, even if they are outside the white lines. But, what if you don't come between the white lines before the kerb ends. That can happen for a couple of reasons. You may be fighting for a position and you can't come between the white lines because you'd hit another car. And in theory your overtake was legal, you were on the track as you're insede tyres were on the kerb despite being outside of the white lines. That's what happened with Webbo. Another scenario is that you've missed the apex and have a wide exit and you can't come between the white lines before the kerb ends. In that case, you've already lost time, yet, you'd lost even more time if you returned between the white lines before the kerb ends. And there's the Abu Dhabi "hotel complex exit" case. Look at 1:23. Drivers always drive the exit outside the white line. But Abu Dhabi has two white lines. But why? In my opinion, the white line inside the kerbs should show the track limits (you must have two tyres inside the kerb at apexes and exits) or a kerb-wide zone ouside the white line should be included to track width (like marked with the outer white line at Abu Dhabi). But current rules leave too much ambiguity.

#4 SpartanChas

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:24

Kerbs are not part of the track.

At some corners (e.g. Ascari exit at Monza) going off the track slightly is tolerated.

#5 Crazy Ninja

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:24

Its the white lines. Simple. But, as with everything, penalties aren't applied consistently which creates ambiguity, confusion, etc. Some white line are ok to cross more than others, apparently.

#6 Skinnyguy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 20:29

In a circuit with the correct curbing and turf there'd be no debate. In Webber's case I wouldnt give him any penalty, I think going there isn't any faster, and also he got pushed there. My point stands, if you don't want cars there, lay some turf down.

#7 Fastcake

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 23:52

Aye, this is something that needs to be looked at next, though it pales a little compared to the recent focus on poor driving standards. Perhaps it would be a good thing at the next few races to start handing out warnings for leaving the track, barring being physically pushed out, to tell everyone this is no longer acceptable. The best thing to do for the future though is to add tougher kerbs and remove unnecessary run-off areas bordering the track; in the areas where it is really necessary for safety you could add more kerbs or a width of grass to discourage putting your wheels outside the lines.

#8 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 23:54

The stewards are probably asking the same question.

#9 Jimisgod

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 04:09

If you don't want cars driving on it, put down grass, gravel or a big old wall. If they can't physically drive on it without slowing down, they won't use it.

#10 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:09

A concrete barrier should do the trick.

:up:

Concrete barrier is a very effective marker of the edge of the track. Who needs white lines when you have these?

In fact Indycar street circuits often do not have the white lines painted as they have in Singapore or Adelaide (OK, it's not just because some Indycar street tracks are rubbish and they put no effort in)... the barrier is more than sufficient.

#11 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:11

Kerbs are not part of the track.

They should make the kerbs steeper, put them back to how they were in the 70s to discourage corner cutting. :up:

#12 Wingcommander

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 06:54

:up:

Concrete barrier is a very effective marker of the edge of the track. Who needs white lines when you have these?


That green stuff is pretty good too. Maybe they should start painting the run offs..

#13 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 10:58

you can also put bumps...

#14 August

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:00

:up:

Concrete barrier is a very effective marker of the edge of the track. Who needs white lines when you have these?

In fact Indycar street circuits often do not have the white lines painted as they have in Singapore or Adelaide (OK, it's not just because some Indycar street tracks are rubbish and they put no effort in)... the barrier is more than sufficient.


Yeah, I remember somebody (was it Webbo) overtaking at Singapore after T3, in that almost straight section before that right-hander leading to the long straight. And I watched if he crossed the white line on the right of the track, as the white lanes were quite far from barriers at that part of track. Obviously he didn't, but what I paid attention very much was that why on earth they have the white lane there so far from barrier, it's not even a corner where you'd need a runoff. At least they had given up the runoff at T14 where thay had problems with kerb last year, now the runoff was part of the track.

And I think they should have e.g. very slippery artficial grass behind kerbs, and high inside kerbs so that you lose if you go wide at exit or cut inside the kerb at apex.

#15 August

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 16:06

So Grosjean got a penalty for going over the white line but staying on the kerb. You can see that often in qualy and that's perfectly OK. Where's consistency? (As if you could see it in F1)

#16 SpaMaster

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 16:10

Yeah, massive abuse of this rule this weekend. They should have initiated warnings left, right and center for a lot of drivers and then started giving drive-throughs for them. Just not acceptable.

#17 DaddyCool

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 17:03

Well that's what you get when you have astroturf and concrete runoffs everywhere plus the usual kerbs. It used to be grass or gravel in ye good olde days.

Remember Hamilton vs Massa in Malaysia 2007? That was a brilliant move by Hamilton and Massa gut punished for it.

Nowadays you just let the car slide into the runoff, regain control and proceed as usual with barely a few seconds lost.

#18 chdphd

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 17:14

That green stuff is pretty good too. Maybe they should start painting the run offs..

They've been doing that for years :)

#19 BoschKurve

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 17:41

The only answer is to have a real out of bounds on circuits again.