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Crystal Palace, forty years on


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#1 pete53

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:05

Whilst sorting out some of my old copies of Autosport this morning I came across a copy from September 1972 which included a report of the last ever race meeting at the Palace. It made me realise that it is now 40 years since the circuit hosted its last ever meeting - 23 September 1972. I was there that afternoon for the Aston Martin O.C. organised meeting. Appropriately the final race was won by a car from a past era (Lister Jaguar) by a driver from the, then, modern era (Gerry Marshall).

I suspect that as each year passes fewer and fewer visitors to Crystal Palace Park will be aware of its history as a race track. In fact it now seems almost unreal to me that there was this fantastic little circuit situated in a public park only a few miles from central London. I was fortunate to live nearby and attended most of the meetings that took place between 1963 and 1972, and it still retains a special place in my heart. Perhaps the fact that my memories of going to the Palace in those years are also mixed up with that exciting period of growing up ( from 10 to 19) give those memories an extra piquancy.

One of the great things about the place was that you were so close to the action. Standing at South Tower you were almost looking down into the cockpit of the cars sliding past you.

My own particular stand-out memories? Rindt winning in 1964; seeing a Ford GT40 for the first time ( in fact 3 of them) in 1966; the fantastic Thomas, Crabtree, Marshall saloon battle in 1971; Mike Walker's F3 Brabham flipping over at North Tower, 1967, and rescuers having to extract the driver whilst racing went on around them; standing in torrential rain at the August 1966 meeting seeing the likes of Roy Pierpoint (Falcon), Mac Daghorn (Lola 70) and David Piper (Ferrari 250 LM) win races to challenge the perceived wisdom that smaller, less powerful cars had an advantage on this tight little track......

Sadly the GLCC decided that athletics was the way to go and the track gave way to a new stand for the running track which would encroach on to what was the bottom straight. However, even if the circuit hadn't closed then it is very unlikely that it would have survived into the modern era - noise and safety restrictions would surely have put paid to it. But, it was great whilst it lasted.



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#2 Tony Kingston

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:44

Happy days. I only moved to the area in 1970, the first meeting I attended was the October "Hunt/Morgan" F3 race. Unfortunately I missed the last meeting but I am sure I was at every other.
Stand out memory? Definately the Hailwood (Surtees) against Scheckter (McLaren) F2 race watched from South Tower.

Edited by Tony Kingston, 24 September 2012 - 11:44.


#3 Alan Cox

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 11:55

Sorry that I was never able to get to 'The Palace' in period but, invariably, it seens conjures up happy memories to all those who were fortunate enough to attend.
Hats off, therefore, to the SDMC for pursuing their 'Motor Sport at The Palace' festival
http://www.motorspor...hepalace.co.uk/
http://forums.autosp...=crystal palace

#4 alansart

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:36

A repeat of one of my posts from May 2009 in another thread.

A had a few hours spare while I was in London so made a nostalgic trip to Crystal Palace. CP was the first race track I ever visited and I was there for it's final meeting.

As seen on Google Earth with layout and corner names added:

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The startline and pits circa 1971...
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...a similar view 12.30pm 12/03/2009 (yesterday) - My apologies for the quality, these were taken with the camera on my mobile phone!
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1971...
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...2009
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A view from towards the back of the grid. A short stretch has been grassed over.
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Looking back towards the startline - the tarmac here looks like it could be all that's left from CP's racing days.
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Heading towards North Tower.
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North Tower in..
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...North Tower out.
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The Glade
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Park Curve. This area was out of bounds for spectators. I never realised the houses were so close. No wonder there were complaints about the noise.
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New Link.
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Stadium straight. There is a little track by the blue boxes which I think maybe for radio controlled cars.
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Stadium straight towards Ramp Bend. The Grandstand and offices now use part of the circuit.
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Ramp Bend. I think the concrete wall on the left may have been around in racing days.
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Anerley Ramp
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Maxim Rise. The bridge from the station that went over the track has gone.
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Finally heading into South Tower.
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It's sad that there appears to be no recognition that racing took place there. I was chatting to a chap who was walking his dog and he had no idea what I was talking about. There is a little Museum on site, but unfortunately that was closed due to structural damage by vandals!

Edited by alansart, 24 September 2012 - 12:39.


#5 pete53

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:03

A repeat of one of my posts from May 2009 in another thread.

A had a few hours spare while I was in London so made a nostalgic trip to Crystal Palace. CP was the first race track I ever visited and I was there for it's final meeting.

Many thanks for those pictures. Yes, not much there now to suggest to the uninitiated that this was once the site of a motor racing track.

#6 DogEarred

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:14

Whilst sorting out some of my old copies of Autosport this morning I came across a copy from September 1972 which included a report of the last ever race meeting at the Palace. It made me realise that it is now 40 years since the circuit hosted its last ever meeting - 23 September 1972.



Last car meeting yes. There was also a kart racing event in the October. I'd hoped to enter but couldn't make it. I wanted the honour of being last in the last race but that went to somebody else...

#7 alansart

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 13:25

A couple of Roydgp's videos of the last meeting for modern cars at the Palace.

http://www.youtube.c...mp;feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.c...mp;feature=plcp

I know they've been posted before, but they are always worth another look :)

I'm in the crowd at North Tower.

Edited by alansart, 24 September 2012 - 13:26.


#8 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 14:14

I went to the re-opening meeting in May 1953 when the circuit was pretty much as it must have been pre-war, with shrubs growing right up to the sides of the track making it look very much like real road racing. It was a wonderful sunny day, and Tony Rolt won the Coronation Trophy Race in Rob Walkers F2 Connaught after a fine dice with Ken Wharton's Cooper-Bristol. I attended many more metiings including the final one mentioned. I also rode a lot of cycle races at 'The Palace' including three Kentish Grand Prix's. Happy days. :cool:

#9 hamsterace

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 15:19

Whilst sorting out some of my old copies of Autosport this morning I came across a copy from September 1972 which included a report of the last ever race meeting at the Palace. It made me realise that it is now 40 years since the circuit hosted its last ever meeting - 23 September 1972. I was there that afternoon for the Aston Martin O.C. organised meeting. Appropriately the final race was won by a car from a past era (Lister Jaguar) by a driver from the, then, modern era (Gerry Marshall).


The final race of the day to which you refer was a round of the JCB Historic Car Championship which, as alluded to on a separate thread recently, effectively signalled the start of competitive historic motor racing in this country. My father was to have been competing in the race, but sadly our Lister Jaguar was not ready in time.

I believe that Nigel Moores - arch enthusiast, series co-organiser/ co-financier and heir to the Littlewoods Pools fortune - was competing in his Ferrari 625, and was intent on being the last person to complete a competitive lap of the track. Being the Bohemian, care-free sort he was, the story goes that Nigel deliberately spun on the last lap in order to make sure that this was the case! Doubtless some will dismiss this as foolhardy, but I have to say I admire his sense of style and applaud his appreciation of the poignancy of the occasion.

Sadly I was born after the circuit had closed. I have been there since to try to decipher the track, and - like so many others - find it sad that no meaningful reference is made to the area's motorsport past. All we have to console ourselves with is archive footage of proper motor racing around a proper track....

Edited by hamsterace, 24 September 2012 - 16:02.


#10 Stephen W

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 08:24

The section of track from North Tower in to New Link (inclusive) has been narrowed to reduce the cost of maintenance. Much that I would love the circuit to be restored I doubt that it ever will due to the horrendous costs that would be involved coupled to the "environmental issues" that would surface.



#11 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 09:16

I think the last ever lap at the September meeting in 1972 was a JCB digger with all the class winers standing in the raised front bucket - I have got the last event on DVD, some great races and car displays and I'm sure one day it will make it to a TNF film show.

#12 arttidesco

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:39

I have got the last event on DVD, some great races and car displays and I'm sure one day it will make it to a TNF film show.


:up:

#13 RAP

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 10:52

If you want the full story of Motor Sport at Crystal Palace, including the turn-of-the-century events, motor cycle path racing and full deltails of EVERY car race -

http://www.formulaon...tal_Palace.html

PS slightly damaged copy available at reduced price


#14 bradbury west

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 13:54

If you want the full story of Motor Sport at Crystal Palace, including the turn-of-the-century events, motor cycle path racing and full deltails of EVERY car race -

Surely this would be a wonderful topic for an historic circuit presentation talk at RTH's Herts Film Show, he suggests optimistically.
Roger Lund


#15 speedman13

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 14:14

The last race meeting at Crystal Palace was a International kart race meeting on the 21st October 1972.

#16 Paul Parker

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 16:02

I visited several times, saw the Galaxies in 1963, fantastic sight on such a narrow circuit, watched Mike Parkes race the Maranello Concessionaires Ferrari LM against Hawkins' GT40 on Whit Monday '67, with press pass stood behind a huge tree somewhere near or beyond the Glade just inches away from the track as Brian Muir blasted past in the Wiggins Teape dark blue Camaro circa 1971, dodged Dennis Leech's Ford Mustang as it spun off into the infield and burst through one of the rhododendrun bushes in period and attended the final car race meeting in September '72.

It was a fantastic circuit for dicing and a very pretty place, accessible by public transport and the very antithesis of modern tracks, pity racing cannot be like this now but at least those of a certain age had the opportunity to experience it first hand.

#17 alansart

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 17:34

dodged Dennis Leech's Ford Mustang as it spun off into the infield and burst through one of the rhododendrun bushes in period and attended the final car race meeting in September '72.


I missed that but remember a Mini that came out late on the warm up lap, having I think hit the Paddock Gate. The driver was in such a rush to get round that he rolled it on the inside of North Tower. He obviously had a reputation as the Mini had PTO written in large letters o the underside of the car!

It was a fantastic circuit for dicing and a very pretty place, accessible by public transport and the very antithesis of modern tracks, pity racing cannot be like this now but at least those of a certain age had the opportunity to experience it first hand.


I first went in 1969 with my Dad. I nagged him to take me and he finally agreed. It had to be Public Transport as he didn't drive. We got there at the end of Practise and as we stepped off the bridge from the station Gregor's Dad appeared in view, armfuls of opposite lock and screaming tyres. Then the Formula Fords and F3's came out and this all led to my mad passion for Motorsport!

As for Dad. He quite liked the Beer Tent but complained a bit about the noise. I went on my own after that :)

Edited by alansart, 25 September 2012 - 17:35.


#18 Bernard

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Posted 25 September 2012 - 22:34

Lived in Thornton Heath then and went to most meetings Wolfgang Seidel signed my programme but but ....was on Ramp Bend when this happened and never forgot it

Peter Luscombe and Edward Borer (or Boarer, according to other sources) died in a multiple crash at Crystal Palace, United Kingdom, on 30 March 1959.

Apparently the first to crash was Edward Borer. Approching the Ramp bend he hit a barrier and was pitched from his Norton which landed on top of him. He was probably killed on the spot. In the seconds that followed marshals failed to signal the accident and several other riders also crashed after hitting the debris and their fellow competitors that were laying on the track. One of them was Peter Luscombe, who was thrown in the air and apparently died because his helmet broke when he landed. Luscombe was riding a Triumph.

Reportedly the accident occurred during a 1000 cm3 race. Since Norton built its first longstroke 1000 cm3 engine only in 2003, Borer was likely riding a 650 cm3 machine or perhaps a Norton fitted with a 1000 cm3 Vincent engine. Luscombe's Triumph was probably a 750 cm3 twin cylinder machine.

A verdict of accidental death was returned at the inquest that followed, but the jury solicited the officials to improve the track's signalling system.

Peter Luscombe lived in Camberlay, Surrey and was an experimental officier at the Royal Aircraft Estabilishments. He was married. Edward Borer was a canned food salesman from Deptford, south-east of London.

So the Palace is a sad place in my memories

#19 pete53

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 09:56

Lived in Thornton Heath then and went to most meetings Wolfgang Seidel signed my programme but but ....was on Ramp Bend when this happened and never forgot it

Peter Luscombe and Edward Borer (or Boarer, according to other sources) died in a multiple crash at Crystal Palace, United Kingdom, on 30 March 1959.

I remember reading about this tragic incident in Peter Parfitt's book on the Palace. Those unyielding sleepers could make bike racing a perilous activity if you fell off.

However, as far as car racing was concerned, CP had a pretty good safety record. I don't recall there being any fatalities (?), nor many serious injuries. I wonder if the lack of run-off area actually helped. If you left the track on a fast corner like Ramp Bend or South Tower you tended to sideswipe the woodwork as there was little time and space for the car to start rotating and hit head on, or go into a roll. North Tower was a bit different being a pretty tight corner, and I do remember seeing a few accidents where drivers had overdone their speed on the approach, locked up, and ended up giving the wall a "Glaswegian Kiss". However, being a slower corner the rate of impact would have been a lot less and any injuries incurred less likely to be too serious. In particular, I recall seeing Peter Gaydon go straight into the wall in his Imp in 1967. The car was a wreck but he climbed out uninjured, although I suspect he might have been a bit stiff the following day.

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#20 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:15

I remember reading about this tragic incident in Peter Parfitt's book on the Palace. Those unyielding sleepers could make bike racing a perilous activity if you fell off.

However, as far as car racing was concerned, CP had a pretty good safety record. I don't recall there being any fatalities (?)

The only car-related death recorded on Motorsport Memorial is that of a marshal, Edward Cheasman, who was hit by a car in 1953. There are four motorcycle fatalities, which include the two mentioned above:

http://www.motorspor...p;Search=Submit

#21 Geoff E

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:35

Edward Borer (or Boarer, according to other sources)


Both his birth and death were registered as BOARER.


#22 Paul Parker

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 10:45

I remember reading about this tragic incident in Peter Parfitt's book on the Palace. Those unyielding sleepers could make bike racing a perilous activity if you fell off.

However, as far as car racing was concerned, CP had a pretty good safety record. I don't recall there being any fatalities (?), nor many serious injuries. I wonder if the lack of run-off area actually helped. If you left the track on a fast corner like Ramp Bend or South Tower you tended to sideswipe the woodwork as there was little time and space for the car to start rotating and hit head on, or go into a roll. North Tower was a bit different being a pretty tight corner, and I do remember seeing a few accidents where drivers had overdone their speed on the approach, locked up, and ended up giving the wall a "Glaswegian Kiss". However, being a slower corner the rate of impact would have been a lot less and any injuries incurred less likely to be too serious. In particular, I recall seeing Peter Gaydon go straight into the wall in his Imp in 1967. The car was a wreck but he climbed out uninjured, although I suspect he might have been a bit stiff the following day.


From memory I think Mike de Udy crashed into the sleepers with one of the Lola T70's in 1968/69? and according to something I read somewhere years ago his heart stopped due to the impact but fortunately there was a doctor on hand to re-start his ticker.

#23 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:21

It's sad that there appears to be no recognition that racing took place there. I was chatting to a chap who was walking his dog and he had no idea what I was talking about. There is a little Museum on site, but unfortunately that was closed due to structural damage by vandals!

Sadly I was born after the circuit had closed. I have been there since to try to decipher the track, and - like so many others - find it sad that no meaningful reference is made to the area's motorsport past. All we have to console ourselves with is archive footage of proper motor racing around a proper track....

While looking for something else I came across this organisation, dedicated to preserving the history of Crystal Palace, and the people behind the museum mentioned by Alan:

http://www.crystalpa...palace-history/

Well, I've checked all their relevant history pages, and I'm blowed if I can find any reference at all to the motor racing, apart for a photo of a few motor racing badges in their 'Collections' section. It almost seem that they're deliberately trying to airbrush it out of history.

#24 Geoff E

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 12:24

Well, I've checked all their relevant history pages, and I'm blowed if I can find any reference at all to the motor racing, apart for a photo of a few motor racing badges in their 'Collections' section. It almost seem that they're deliberately trying to airbrush it out of history.


One or two minimal mentions on the "timeline". But then, there's even less on the athletics stadium.


#25 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:08

One or two minimal mentions on the "timeline". But then, there's even less on the athletics stadium.

And precious little on the dinosaur statues, which are Grade 1 listed.

To be fair, their focus is very much on the history of the building rather than the subsequent history of the park.

But post-war, the motor racing circuit wasn't even supposed to reopen. Have a look at point 27 on the March 1945 plan for redevelopment - the whole of which is a typical bit of post-war idealism - it starts with a football stadium the size of Wembley and just gets more and more fantastical: http://www.crystalpa...eline-1937-2005

I haven't yet established whether the 1937 redevelopment plans envisaged the retention of the circuit.

#26 Paul Parker

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 13:53

And precious little on the dinosaur statues, which are Grade 1 listed.

To be fair, their focus is very much on the history of the building rather than the subsequent history of the park.

But post-war, the motor racing circuit wasn't even supposed to reopen. Have a look at point 27 on the March 1945 plan for redevelopment - the whole of which is a typical bit of post-war idealism - it starts with a football stadium the size of Wembley and just gets more and more fantastical: http://www.crystalpa...eline-1937-2005

I haven't yet established whether the 1937 redevelopment plans envisaged the retention of the circuit.


Surely post-war socialist idealism.

#27 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:31

Well, maybe, Paul. But Parnacott's 1937 stadium plans were just as unworldly. I get the impression that the trustees just took his ideas and expanded on them: he didn't specify the number of spectators, only that 25000 of them would be seated. He even suggested converting the reservoir into "the largest outdoor swimming pool in London", ice rinks, a 10000-seater concert hall, an arena suitable for circuses, a sunbathing plaza ...

#28 Tony Lethbridge

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 14:42

I only visited Crystal Palace once, and that was for a big kart meeting which took place, I think, a week after the final car meeting. At the time I held a clerk of the course licence for karting, and was annoyed because I hadn't bothered to take my licence and they were asking for extra officials. It would have been nice to be involved. As it was I walked around the circuit with Bernard 'Broncho' Slade who competed in the meeting. Broncho, who must have been in his sixties at that time, was keen to take part as had raced at the CP speedway before the war, and showed us where the old track had been. He was quite a character and was most upset because the scrutineer had put a hammer through his ancient crash helmet forcing him to buy a new one before going out to practice. Apart from speedway (he had continued to race for Exeter post war) and karting, he had also ridden a Norton in the Manx GP and raced his Healey at Goodwood.

#29 pete53

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 15:29

This little snippet appeared in Motoring News 10 April 1969 in the TRACK TOPIC section.

" London's Crystal Palace circuit is coming under the eye of a GLC committee set up to establish the feasibility of increasing the track length of the 1.39 mile track. An article in the specialist magazine Parks Management suggested recently that a decision to bring the track up to F1 length had already been made, although this was denied by the GLC last week."

If only ....

#30 Russell Burrows

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 16:31

When kids we would schlep across London with our five bob Red Rovers and jump off the number 2 bus right at the gates. There was then the excitement of that longish walk down through the ornate steps and crumbling architectural features of the old Palace grounds, then the first sniff of Castrol R as engines bellowed into life in the paddock below…….

I first went there with my Dad in 1956 to see Surtees and the MV. Later, with my mates, and courtesy of London Transport, I was a regular until being transported to the Antipodes. I raced there in 1971, the year before it closed, something I enjoyed immensely. That it was bloody dangerous is beyond question, but probably no more so than many circuits back then, particularly in Australia.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 26 September 2012 - 16:34.


#31 Paul Parker

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 16:52

Well, maybe, Paul. But Parnacott's 1937 stadium plans were just as unworldly. I get the impression that the trustees just took his ideas and expanded on them: he didn't specify the number of spectators, only that 25000 of them would be seated. He even suggested converting the reservoir into "the largest outdoor swimming pool in London", ice rinks, a 10000-seater concert hall, an arena suitable for circuses, a sunbathing plaza ...


I meant to thank you for producing this very interesting document, such detail is fascinating and I can imagine that motor racing at Crystal Palace was always only tolerated at best.

Regarding my political comment it has been my personal experience that certain professions attract left of centre adherents.


#32 alansart

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:10

When kids we would schlep across London with our five bob Red Rovers and jump off the number 2 bus right at the gates. There was then the excitement of that longish walk down through the ornate steps and crumbling architectural features of the old Palace grounds, then the first sniff of Castrol R as engines bellowed into life in the paddock below…….


...in my case entering from the Railway Station. Once I'd got my paper round money on saturday morning I'd jump on the train from Stevenage to Kings Cross - Underground to Waterloo? - and then straight to CP in time for the end of practice. I think I was 14 when I first went on my own!

Edited by alansart, 26 September 2012 - 17:10.


#33 taylov

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 17:24

I was a regular at the Palace until I left London in 1968 to go to college. Saw every meeting (cars and bikes) from the start of the sixties. I returned to the track in the winter of 1983 or 84 and walked the circuit including what was left of the pre-war "inner circuit" photographing every corner.

The track between Big Tree bend to Stadium curve on the "Inner circuit" had been lost in the building of the Sports Centre in the early 1960's but much of the rest still survived intact. The track had not been narrowed and the start finish section was still all in situ.

Here's South Tower, some 12 years after closure. The main change was that the old retaining barrier of railway sleepers in concrete that bordered most of the circuit had been removed and the slopes down to the circuit landscaped where the seating enclosure had been. Does anyone know how quickly this was done after the 1972 closure?

Tony

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#34 taylov

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Posted 26 September 2012 - 19:43

Same period c1984, photos taken on the remaining section of the pre-war "Inner Circuit"

1 Fisherman's Bend from the 1953 New Link

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2 Exit from Fisherman's Bend

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3 Fisherman's Corner

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4 Exit from Fisherman's Corner

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5 Fisherman's Rise, the climb towards Pond Hairpin

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This section of the old pre-war track has been used as the return road for the Sevenoaks MC Palace Sprint events in recent years.

Tony

Edited by taylov, 27 September 2012 - 13:12.


#35 Rob29

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 08:02

This little snippet appeared in Motoring News 10 April 1969 in the TRACK TOPIC section.

" London's Crystal Palace circuit is coming under the eye of a GLC committee set up to establish the feasibility of increasing the track length of the 1.39 mile track. An article in the specialist magazine Parks Management suggested recently that a decision to bring the track up to F1 length had already been made, although this was denied by the GLC last week."

If only ....

Extention plan was drawn up around 1955 and published in 'Autosport' 2.4 mile circuit including banked curve a la Monza! Sadly never implimented.
I was regular spectator 1953-71.

#36 thirtytwo

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 12:33

Living in Potters Bar the track for me was public transport ride away (pre driving age) started going in 64/65 watched at Ramp Bend memories there are David Piper walking a sports car race in his 250LM, the S.M.A.R.T F3 Brabham & Merlyn (must have been the metallic green paintwork), Sir Gwain Ballie ? hitting the barrier in his Falcon and a sleeper going through the door, Graham Hill going slowly past to retire his Lotus 48 then hearing a terrific crash and running up to find Alex Solar- Roig had completely demolished his Lola at Maxim rise, Graham standing there with a i was not impressed with that look . I then began watching at North Tower(driving by now) highlights Silvio Moser walking a F2 heat one handed over Stewart etc sadly not in the final, Dick Barker crashing and a big panic when the car caught fire with him still trying to get out! , A driver who i cant remember even though he came from PB area with a red Cobra, sounded impressive being revved up in a High St garage had a big fight with Gabriel Konig in a Britten Midget until he stuffed it into the wall, what was the history of the Cobra and what happened to it afterwards?. The last meeting i went to was a evening meeting 71? would have been good had it not bucketed down all night all i can remember is apart from taking a week to dry out is Richard Longman winning in a Lotus 69. Happy days was sad to see it go.

#37 RAP

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 13:08

Because Crystal Palace was owned by the GLC there are lots of interesting documents available in the London Metropolitan Archive. Studying these for my book, the demise of the track was pretty unavoidable. By the 1970s only the bank holiday meetings showed a profit and as the report from the finance department so succintly puts it "there are no more bank holidays available" and noise considerations prevented its use on Sundays when better crowds might have been acheived.

So the chance of any investment in safety etc being recouped was nil. The GLC were never going to subsidise an "elistist" sport like motor racing with rate payers money.

The report also pointed out that Brands Hatch was nearby so there was no serious loss of ammenity to the rate payer enthusiasts.

RAP

#38 taylov

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 13:10

North Tower - July 1966 and December 1984

Posted Image

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#39 pete53

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Posted 27 September 2012 - 13:24

Sir Gwain Ballie ? hitting the barrier in his Falcon and a sleeper going through the door, Graham Hill going slowly past to retire his Lotus 48 then hearing a terrific crash and running up to find Alex Solar- Roig had completely demolished his Lola at Maxim rise, Graham standing there with a i was not impressed with that look . I then began watching at North Tower(driving by now) highlights Silvio Moser walking a F2 heat one handed over Stewart etc sadly not in the final, Dick Barker crashing and a big panic when the car caught fire with him still trying to get out! , A driver who i cant remember even though he came from PB area with a red Cobra, sounded impressive being revved up in a High St garage had a big fight with Gabriel Konig in a Britten Midget until he stuffed it into the wall, what was the history of the Cobra and what happened to it afterwards?. The last meeting i went to was a evening meeting 71? would have been good had it not bucketed down all night all i can remember is apart from taking a week to dry out is Richard Longman winning in a Lotus 69. Happy days was sad to see it go.

It was Roy Pierpoint who hit the sleepers in his Falcon leaving one side in need of considerable repairs (1967). I think the red Cobra was Gerry Bagshaw's and this would have been the August 1969 meeting.

Edited by pete53, 27 September 2012 - 13:24.


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#40 arttidesco

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 22:48

Browsing for something unrelated I stumbled across this which may be of interest to anyone who attended the Formula 2 race on the 29th May 1972.

#41 john winfield

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:55

Browsing for something unrelated I stumbled across this which may be of interest to anyone who attended the Formula 2 race on the 29th May 1972.


Thanks Art; good photo, which brought a couple of things to mind. Firstly, I much preferred the winners' celebrations in those days: hanging off the back of Capris, climbing through the sun roof, crouching on trailers etc.. Much better than the standardised, mechanical process of today.
I also wondered what had caught the attention of the photographers and crowd. Scheckter and Hailwood had just entertained us a with a great battle (I was down at South Tower), Mike's about to fall out of the sun roof, yet everyone is looking at something out of picture. The winning cars? Carlos Reutemann, Vic Elford in 3rd and 4th? I wonder if anyone remembers. Perhaps the leader of the GLC was being led to the scaffold.

#42 arttidesco

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 07:07

Thanks Art; good photo, which brought a couple of things to mind. Firstly, I much preferred the winners' celebrations in those days: hanging off the back of Capris, climbing through the sun roof, crouching on trailers etc.. Much better than the standardised, mechanical process of today.
I also wondered what had caught the attention of the photographers and crowd. Scheckter and Hailwood had just entertained us a with a great battle (I was down at South Tower), Mike's about to fall out of the sun roof, yet everyone is looking at something out of picture. The winning cars? Carlos Reutemann, Vic Elford in 3rd and 4th? I wonder if anyone remembers. Perhaps the leader of the GLC was being led to the scaffold.


:up:

Before my time but as you say something appears to be happening off camera.


#43 taylov

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:07

I also wondered what had caught the attention of the photographers and crowd. Scheckter and Hailwood had just entertained us a with a great battle (I was down at South Tower), Mike's about to fall out of the sun roof, yet everyone is looking at something out of picture. The winning cars? Carlos Reutemann, Vic Elford in 3rd and 4th? I wonder if anyone remembers. Perhaps the leader of the GLC was being led to the scaffold.


Yes, I think I remember.

Unusually for the Whitsun races, the F2 final wasn't the last race of the day.

The big saloons were about to come out - 4 x Chevy Camaro, 2 Boss Mustangs and a host of Capris and Escorts. When they fired up it was B...... noisy. The drivers included Martin Birrane, Brian Muir, Dave Brodie, Willy Green, Gerry Birrell etc and for much of the crowd this was the most anticipated race of the day.

To quote from the 39 Steps - "Am I right, sir? "

Tony

Edited by taylov, 02 October 2012 - 10:08.


#44 alansart

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 11:46

Yes, I think I remember.

Unusually for the Whitsun races, the F2 final wasn't the last race of the day.

The big saloons were about to come out - 4 x Chevy Camaro, 2 Boss Mustangs and a host of Capris and Escorts. When they fired up it was B...... noisy. The drivers included Martin Birrane, Brian Muir, Dave Brodie, Willy Green, Gerry Birrell etc and for much of the crowd this was the most anticipated race of the day.

To quote from the 39 Steps - "Am I right, sir? "

Tony


You could be right. I was at North Tower for most of the day so missed the startline bit...but oh the noise of those big saloons :)

The Scheckter - Hailwood battle was pretty good, plus they were great looking cars as well.


#45 DogEarred

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 14:54

You could be right. I was at North Tower for most of the day so missed the startline bit...but oh the noise of those big saloons :)

The Scheckter - Hailwood battle was pretty good, plus they were great looking cars as well.



Was that the race where Scheckter's car wore 'Impact' sponsorship? Or was it another time? What was Impact, anyway? I remember thinkng it might be somewhat inappropriate for a racing car.
What year did Graham Hill run in the 'Jaegermeister' car & did he have a team mate?
I seem to remember someone (was it de Adamich?) putting a red car into the barriers, coming out of South Tower?

#46 john winfield

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 15:12

Yes, I think I remember.

Unusually for the Whitsun races, the F2 final wasn't the last race of the day.

The big saloons were about to come out - 4 x Chevy Camaro, 2 Boss Mustangs and a host of Capris and Escorts. When they fired up it was B...... noisy. The drivers included Martin Birrane, Brian Muir, Dave Brodie, Willy Green, Gerry Birrell etc and for much of the crowd this was the most anticipated race of the day.

To quote from the 39 Steps - "Am I right, sir? "

Tony


Mr. Memory, you're probably right!

'Was that the race where Scheckter's car wore 'Impact' sponsorship? Or was it another time? What was Impact, anyway? I remember thinkng it might be somewhat inappropriate for a racing car.'
Dog, yes, the McLaren had Impact sponsorship for at least part of 1972. Were they a cosmetics firm? If none of us can remember, or ever knew, then their marketing campaign can't have made much impa....impression.
What year did Graham Hill run in the 'Jaegermeister' car. 1972. He did well elsewhere (Monza, Rouen?) but was eleiminated at CP in a nasty startline crash with Gerry Birrell. & did he have a team mate? Not sure, not in Jaegermeister colours I don't think, Tate of Leeds maybe.
I seem to remember someone (was it de Adamich?) putting a red car into the barriers, coming out of South Tower? F2 register has AdeA crashing on the warming up lap so maybe. It must have happened right in front of me but my memory's going!

Edited by john winfield, 02 October 2012 - 15:13.


#47 mikeC

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 15:25

Mr. Memory, you're probably right!

'Was that the race where Scheckter's car wore 'Impact' sponsorship? Or was it another time? What was Impact, anyway? I remember thinkng it might be somewhat inappropriate for a racing car.'
Dog, yes, the McLaren had Impact sponsorship for at least part of 1972. Were they a cosmetics firm? If none of us can remember, or ever knew, then their marketing campaign can't have made much impa....impression.
What year did Graham Hill run in the 'Jaegermeister' car. 1972. He did well elsewhere (Monza, Rouen?) but was eleiminated at CP in a nasty startline crash with Gerry Birrell. & did he have a team mate? Not sure, not in Jaegermeister colours I don't think, Tate of Leeds maybe.
I seem to remember someone (was it de Adamich?) putting a red car into the barriers, coming out of South Tower? F2 register has AdeA crashing on the warming up lap so maybe. It must have happened right in front of me but my memory's going!


Back inthe 1970s Impact was the trade name for one of the, then new, carbonless office copy papers - I think marketed by John Dickinson Ltd, who were not averse to racing car sponsorship; but whether that was the origin of this particular Impact, I know not...

#48 DogEarred

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 20:59

Mr. Memory, you're probably right!

'Was that the race where Scheckter's car wore 'Impact' sponsorship? Or was it another time? What was Impact, anyway? I remember thinkng it might be somewhat inappropriate for a racing car.'
Dog, yes, the McLaren had Impact sponsorship for at least part of 1972. Were they a cosmetics firm? If none of us can remember, or ever knew, then their marketing campaign can't have made much impa....impression.
What year did Graham Hill run in the 'Jaegermeister' car. 1972. He did well elsewhere (Monza, Rouen?) but was eleiminated at CP in a nasty startline crash with Gerry Birrell. & did he have a team mate? Not sure, not in Jaegermeister colours I don't think, Tate of Leeds maybe.
I seem to remember someone (was it de Adamich?) putting a red car into the barriers, coming out of South Tower? F2 register has AdeA crashing on the warming up lap so maybe. It must have happened right in front of me but my memory's going!



Thanks,

It was the warm up lap I remember & looking at the circuit map just now, it was Ramp Bend where I was watching, not South Tower, so your memory is safe for the moment...

Well done..

#49 arttidesco

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 00:04

Couldn't find any pics of Jody's M21 with Impact sponsorship but there is an interesting assortment of pics on this site including a demonstration by Dick Seaman driving a MB W125, Hawthorn in the Moss 250 F and a lovely shot of Jody and Mike dicing in 1972.

#50 Barry Boor

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Posted 03 October 2012 - 06:29

Silvio Moser walking a F2 heat one handed over Stewart etc sadly not in the final,


Can you hang some flesh on that bone, thirty-two, because I have no memory of that event at all and I didn't miss many F.2 races at the Palace?