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IndyCar for 2013, it's official.


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#451 Risil

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 14:18

What, and change the habit of a lifetime?

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#452 jonpollak

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 14:39

D'oh
I waited for Clint Bowyer to go dashing through the pit lane before I was suckered into 10,000.

Jp

#453 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 15:18

Somewhere dear old Potmotr is still waiting for something to be his 10k I think

#454 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 06:03

Has Rubens move to stock cars been confirmed? His results were pretty shocking for guy with his reputation, but he doesn't strike me as a natural learner, so I was still curious how he would do in the second year.

#455 B Squared

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:34

Has Rubens move to stock cars been confirmed?


Yes

http://www.indystar....xt|Indianapolis Sports

#456 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 10:44

Has Rubens move to stock cars been confirmed? His results were pretty shocking for guy with his reputation, but he doesn't strike me as a natural learner, so I was still curious how he would do in the second year.


I think he was genuinly still learning, and Rubens needs a 'perfect' car which it's a bit hard to do in an Indycar and on American tracks. The opportunities to tweak are somewhat limited.

Plus Indycar is more difficult than most people give it credit for and let's face it, KV Racing.

#457 gm914

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Posted 12 December 2012 - 12:38

Ana Beatriz Caselato, it's as easy as 1 2 3

In fact if you take her initials and add the "de", you get the first seven letters of the alphabet, or alternatively the diatonic scale. (C major, to be precise.) ABCGdeF. Spooky.

Talking Point
Are there any other Indycar drivers whose names you can play on a piano?

Yes. Marco Andretti. But it's just stabbing E Minor a bunch.

#458 B Squared

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 10:11

Robin Miller at Speedtv is unimpressed by the latest firing at IMS:

http://auto-racing.s...g-the-wrong-guy

#459 jonpollak

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 11:58

Steve was my go to guy for many years at CART.
What a wonderful man he is.

So then, No surprise the Clabber Girl snorting crackheads @ 16th& Georgetown dispensed with him.
I am sure we will have some insipid non-entity issuing prosaic press releases that no one reads as soon as they figure out where the fax machine has been stored.

Jp

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#460 Rob

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 23:24

They don't know when to stop digging. It's saddening.

#461 B Squared

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:29

IndyCar playoff system at heart of new CEO's vision - Mark Miles backtracks in the article, but the headline demonstrates that lunacy continues to dominate at 16th and Georgetown.

http://www.indystar....ew-CEO-s-vision

#462 B Squared

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 11:49

Now for something positive from Speedtv: Conor Daly Strong On Debut For Foyt

“The kid did a real nice job. His feedback was good and he never put a wheel wrong all day,” said A.J. Foyt.

http://auto-racing.s...debut-for-foyt/

Power fastest in Sebring test:

http://auto-racing.s...ookies-impress/

Edited by B Squared, 14 December 2012 - 11:52.


#463 Risil

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:01

And Vautier second! Just .01s off Power's time. On that basis I'd rather see him in the second Schmidt-Hamilton car than Rubens. Get him and Daly full-time rides and I'll be pumped for 2013.

Edited by Risil, 14 December 2012 - 12:02.


#464 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 12:25

It's funny the amount of hype there was throughout Thursday for Daly. Then you see the times and realise Vaultier went just as fast(er) so it wasn't quite the walk on water performance.

#465 Xpat

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 13:08

It's funny the amount of hype there was throughout Thursday for Daly. Then you see the times and realise Vaultier went just as fast(er) so it wasn't quite the walk on water performance.


The hype in my neck of the woods is because Daly is a local boy. That and most Americans don't believe people named Tristan actually exist.

Posted Image

You tellin' me that guy with the harp is testing an Indy car? Riiiiight.

#466 gm914

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:16

Interesting to note the cars were testing with Dunlop tires yesterday.

#467 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:17

eh?

#468 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:18

btw just noticed the Power article has full(unofficial) laptimes.

1: Will Power, 52.84
2: Tristan Vautier, 52.85
3: Alex Tagliani, 52.91
4: Josef Newgarden, 52.93
5: Justin Wilson, 52.94
6: Scott Dixon, 52.94
7: Helio Castroneves, 53.00
8: Simona de Silvestro, 53.01
9: Oriol Servia, 53.02
10: JR Hildebrand, 53.04
11: Tony Kanaan, 53.13
12: Conor Daly, 53.29
13: Charlie Kimball, 53.31
14: James Hinchcliffe, 53.34
15: Graham Rahal, 53.48

Really? Daly is the story out of that line-up?

#469 gm914

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:22

eh?

Umm, wrong series :blush:

Asshattery on my part. haven't had my morning coffee, flicking thru twitter.

As you were.

#470 Risil

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 14:30

Really? Daly is the story out of that line-up?


Article also notes that Daly stayed on used tyres in the afternoon, when the track was quicker. He was fifth in the morning session, and says that using fresh tyres like some unspecified other teams did, he could've comfortably lapped in the high-52s. I don't doubt that part of the story is trying to help give a struggling young American driver a leg-up, but he seems to be impressing people. I reckon AJ would like an American driver in his team if the finance was there, too.

#471 billm99uk

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 16:54

Article also notes that Daly stayed on used tyres in the afternoon, when the track was quicker. He was fifth in the morning session, and says that using fresh tyres like some unspecified other teams did, he could've comfortably lapped in the high-52s. I don't doubt that part of the story is trying to help give a struggling young American driver a leg-up, but he seems to be impressing people. I reckon AJ would like an American driver in his team if the finance was there, too.


If the finance was there, he'd still be in Europe though  ;)

#472 Jim Thurman

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 18:08

Yep. Same reason people rob banks. That's where the money is... It doesn't concern me much, I'll watch barstools and lawn mowers race.

No problem from me either. It's kind of hard to convey irony in a post ;)

I don't think there will be the kind of mouthy editorializing and hand-wringing for Rubens' switch that there were in earlier cases. Even if Kyle Larson goes full time to NASCAR, I imagine there won't be much outcry aside from Robin Miller writing of a "missed opportunity"

As far as barstools and mowers, I came close, but stepped away from that breach :)

#473 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 15:44

I can't see that the Offseason is posted here. :lol: I can't see the F1 teams pulling together and doing something like this, ever.

#474 Risil

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 21:15

Not many laffs but the performances are spot-on. Will Power in that video has the ring of truth about him.

And waaaaay better than Tooned, as if it needs to be said.

Edited by Risil, 17 December 2012 - 21:16.


#475 Red17

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 22:25

Posted Image
Hmm... where have I seen this before?
Posted Image

#476 B Squared

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 13:38

Marshall Pruett at Speedtv, Q&A With Mark Miles:

http://auto-racing.s...ith-mark-miles/

#477 Red17

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:26

Marshall Pruett at Speedtv, Q&A With Mark Miles:

http://auto-racing.s...ith-mark-miles/


I did not like it.
My personal opinion. For example, he names the Boston firm too much. If he needs to pay a consulting firm to learn about what is wrong then it only gives credit to the people claiming that IMS should bring someone with a motorsport background.
Ok, he does seem to want to learn, or at least his answers indicate such, but I hope he refrains from saying such things like this:

've got four kids, three sons between 29 and 20. They lived in Europe for a while but they were not soccer fans. Today they and all their friends can name 75 of the top 100 international soccer players and they never watched a minute of live soccer or tape-delayed soccer. Why? It’s from Video games. I'm not making this up, and my kids are not an anomaly.


In all due honesty, he blew it right here. Bad use of words or not, he just said something that is simply not true. A person who can name a hundred players is not your casual fan, it's a big fan of the sport who has certainly seen a few games and not just played a fictional championship on the Playstation.

Same goes for motorsport. I have yet to meet someone who loves racing just because he/she has seen it only in a video games, heck, every fan has that longing dream of seeing the machines live.
His logic fails because that would imply such a person would never watch the real sport in any format.

Ironically, Indycar does have a good legacy in video games. And it's likely iRacing is already scanning the DW1

Edited by Red17, 18 December 2012 - 17:27.


#478 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:37

I can see Americans playing FIFA on consoles and being exposed to football that way. You're not going to play racing games with your mates most of the time.

#479 Risil

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:42

In all due honesty, he blew it right here. Bad use of words or not, he just said something that is simply not true. A person who can name a hundred players is not your casual fan, it's a big fan of the sport who has certainly seen a few games and not just played a fictional championship on the Playstation.


Rung absolutely true for me. Videogames are incredible for making you care enough to retain information. And if you're a young male living in Europe you'll probably have had the opportunity to play a lot of FIFA, active interest in football or not. Miles's tennis comparisons are interesting too, I don't think I've heard anyone liken the Indy 500 to the Wimbledon Tennis Championships before. Maybe they'll build a retracting roof along with the lights? :)

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#480 Risil

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:42

I can see Americans playing FIFA on consoles and being exposed to football that way. You're not going to play racing games with your mates most of the time.


Surely the Gran Turismo games have driven a lot of interest in and knowledge of fast cars.

#481 Red17

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:46

I've heard anyone liken the Indy 500 to the Wimbledon Tennis Championships before. :)

But the Championships are an event that all players in the world would kill to be in. It has a ton of prestige.

A prestige that the Indy 500 has lost. Indycar can not even convince Smokey Johnson to run on a earlier shedule on a Penske car!

#482 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 17:50

I can see Americans playing FIFA on consoles and being exposed to football that way. You're not going to play racing games with your mates most of the time.

Mario Kart is the exception to that rule :lol:

#483 Bloggsworth

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:03

I did not like it.
My personal opinion. For example, he names the Boston firm too much. If he needs to pay a consulting firm to learn about what is wrong then it only gives credit to the people claiming that IMS should bring someone with a motorsport background.
Ok, he does seem to want to learn, or at least his answers indicate such, but I hope he refrains from saying such things like this:



In all due honesty, he blew it right here. Bad use of words or not, he just said something that is simply not true. A person who can name a hundred players is not your casual fan, it's a big fan of the sport who has certainly seen a few games and not just played a fictional championship on the Playstation.

Same goes for motorsport. I have yet to meet someone who loves racing just because he/she has seen it only in a video games, heck, every fan has that longing dream of seeing the machines live.
His logic fails because that would imply such a person would never watch the real sport in any format.

Ironically, Indycar does have a good legacy in video games. And it's likely iRacing is already scanning the DW1



When I was a schoolboy in the 50s & 60s I could name several Indycar drivers, puzzled about this Dutch bloke Dean Van Lines who entered cars for the Indy 500, I'd heard of Bill Vukivich and several other drivers; I lived in England and had, needless to say, never seen an Indycar race in my short life; so to accuse someone of being a liar because he says he knows children who learn the names of footballers from computer games is a syllogism too far - Not all the world operates to your rules.

I have never played anyone at Bridge, I have never been to a Bridge tournament, never even see friends or family play the game, does that mean I am delusional when I play bridge on my computer?

Edited by Bloggsworth, 18 December 2012 - 18:07.


#484 gm914

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:16

Dean Van Lines. That's hilarious :lol:

#485 Dolph

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 18:27

In all due honesty, he blew it right here. Bad use of words or not, he just said something that is simply not true. A person who can name a hundred players is not your casual fan, it's a big fan of the sport who has certainly seen a few games and not just played a fictional championship on the Playstation.



I played the Nascar game (Nascar 2?) by Papyrus and could name all the drivers and recognise all the cars. I hadn't seen a race ever, though.

#486 jonpollak

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:00

I think Red is somewhat correct in that it IS a flawed analogy.
The problem, having two children the roughly the same age as Mr. Miles, is the disconnect between the instant gratification of gaming, which does not take any real world skill or appreciation or acumen, and the desire to proffer a platform borne out of the advancements of TV, the Beatles and a moon landing.
His desired demographic are more concerned with playing in a cosy anonymous fantasy world, (with 'real' names and perceived talent values all gleaned in their periphery) than anything that takes an investment of attention,learning and consideration outside of the need for muscle memory of which buttons to press.

Their world is so frickin' narrow, so easy to manipulate, it ain't funny. They haven't the facility to wonder anymore. It's all done for them. I worry about these children's rational development..and make no mistake, they are still children. My observation is not syllogistic but I can't begin tell you how much further along in life I was at their age.

But that's a whole other kettle O' fish.
Jp

#487 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:03

Well I'd put it another way. With where the economies are globally, they much desired younger demographic doesn't have the purchasing power any more. It's actually us older out of touch kind.

#488 jonpollak

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 19:23

Well I'd put it another way. With where the economies are globally, they much desired younger demographic doesn't have the purchasing power any more. It's actually us older out of touch kind.

True.
Because they are STILL reliant upon us fogies to buy their video games and concurrently will be bereft of the power to determine the course of things that 'impact' them'.

Jp

#489 Red17

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 21:08

When I was a schoolboy in the 50s & 60s I could name several Indycar drivers, puzzled about this Dutch bloke Dean Van Lines who entered cars for the Indy 500, I'd heard of Bill Vukivich and several other drivers; I lived in England and had, needless to say, never seen an Indycar race in my short life; so to accuse someone of being a liar because he says he knows children who learn the names of footballers from computer games is a syllogism too far - Not all the world operates to your rules.

I have never played anyone at Bridge, I have never been to a Bridge tournament, never even see friends or family play the game, does that mean I am delusional when I play bridge on my computer?

I understand your idea, but your example is far from being what I tried to highlight. You did not know the cars, but most likely you had seen a race, or, you were already a fan of racing. And... the game alone may not be enough to see a real game as you have written yourself.
Sure, im all for a Indycar 3, the previous 2 were great. Maybe that will convince Codemasters to at least fix bugs before release.

Anyway, what the man tried to imply is that video games alone can draw the young ones who do not care for racing into racing. His words were poor in all the sense, the numbers he used (hundred players, that's the entry numbers you would see in rallying, how many racing games actually hold that many entries in a race, let alone use real world names?) and even the demographics! 20 year olds are far more game friendly, 30 year olds (the numbers he used), are still very much old school, at least I am.

Edit: Forgot to mention one thing. He seems very fond of the Chase format. After seeing a nearly full Nascar season I think it's a system that can be manpiulated, a driver only has to do enough to stay in and then really throw everything on those final races. It basically voids 2/3 of the season as you can be crap for most of the season and still be a champion.
This year's season in Formula 1 has shown us that a field at equal level can live with the same points system and still reward the best.

Edited by Red17, 18 December 2012 - 21:15.


#490 tkulla

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 21:29

Hey, they find anyone to manage Indycar yet?

If not, I'm volunteering for the job. Here's my plan:


Lower ticket prices
Tickets will be prices at a level that will generate a sell-out at all tracks. If it has to be $5 to do it, then that's what the price will be (instead of the price that will generate max revenue). We need more fans instead of just milking the diehards we have left.

More international races
More sponsors are needed, so let's entice Mexican and South American companies. At least one race in Mexico, two in Brazil and maybe one in Argentina. Oh, and I'd bring back Montreal too.

Reality TV show
Not with the drivers, but with the real stars... the cars. Think "driving with the stars" where celebs would learn to drive an Indycar.

Racecar Engineering Programs in Schools
Need to partner with a major engineering university to start a program that includes internships. An offshoot of this would be a high school math/science program offered for free to public schools, including a computer simulator. A weekly "race" would take place at a different track with data released on Monday and the races taking place on Friday. Teams would attempt to fine tune their car setups and then their designated driver would compete online for pole position.


As for the racing, the product is already quite good. A few small changes then...

Standing starts
A 24-car drag race is about as exciting as it gets. Every time I show a non-racing fan the start of an F1 race they are wowed.


Artificial Wet Race
Crazy, I know. But just race where the circuit will be wet (via sprinklers) would be an event. For the fans it would be the best wet race ever since they won't get wet!












#491 loki

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:25

Marshall Pruett at Speedtv, Q&A With Mark Miles:


Here's my take away from the piece...

Miles: "Well, I don't have any Indycar experience or even any motorsport experience so what we did was hire a consulting firm for a bunch of money that also lacks said experience that's going to take several months to generate some reports that contain info that may or may not be helpful to Indycar which someone that was inside Indycar or even racing could have told us for much less in a much shorter time."


#492 loki

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:35

Edit: Forgot to mention one thing. He seems very fond of the Chase format. After seeing a nearly full Nascar season I think it's a system that can be manpiulated, a driver only has to do enough to stay in and then really throw everything on those final races. It basically voids 2/3 of the season as you can be crap for most of the season and still be a champion.
This year's season in Formula 1 has shown us that a field at equal level can live with the same points system and still reward the best.


The Chase in Cup wasn't introduced to make the racing better, it was to drive TV ratings which has worked to some degree. It doesn't appear Miles knows enough about the differences between Cup and ICS and look to me to be saying, "that works for them, why can't it work for us". He's not only not taking into account the fact they have more cars and more races but also the fact that the 2012 season was one of the best in recent history. Which dovetails with what you said about the F1 season. The Chase isn't what drove NASCAR's popularity. It's what they did when they peaked and started to dip to help drive ratings.


#493 Red17

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 09:17

Anyway, it looks like Indycar needs a proper CEO.

#494 billm99uk

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 10:19

Anyway, it looks like Indycar needs a proper CEO.


Didn't they have one of those? :p

#495 B Squared

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Posted 21 December 2012 - 10:01

Conor Daly back to Europe after all? - from the Indy Star:

http://www.indystar....ng-IndyCar-2014

Edited by B Squared, 21 December 2012 - 13:23.


#496 Risil

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:07

RIP Salt Walther, an interesting character from interesting times. A nice, nostalgia-resplendent obit from Robin Miller, which is alternately sad, dismissive and respectful.

#497 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:46

Free at last, free at last....

#498 Jim Thurman

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 04:03

Free at last, free at last....

Wow Ross, that is harsh even by your standards.

Did nepotism run over your dog or something? I too find nepotism appaling, but not close to your level. What exactly happened to you to cause such strong feelings?

Miller's right that Walther didn't exactly do much, but he's wrong to call him "one of the original ride-buyers", that went on in the 20's and 30's. And rich kids dominated the very early days of racing.

#499 loki

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 05:48

Marshall Pruett must read these forums...

Hinchcliffe Joins Andretti Autosport, Replaces Princess Sparkle Pony As Its New Source Of Sunlight.


:rotfl: I haven't heard that reference anywhere but here.

From his top stories fo the year piece at http://auto-racing.s...ies-of-2012/P11 .



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#500 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:35

Wow Ross, that is harsh even by your standards.

Did nepotism run over your dog or something? I too find nepotism appaling, but not close to your level. What exactly happened to you to cause such strong feelings?

Miller's right that Walther didn't exactly do much, but he's wrong to call him "one of the original ride-buyers", that went on in the 20's and 30's. And rich kids dominated the very early days of racing.


What? I thought Salt was the one perennially in jail?