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Suzuka Build-up


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#101 SCUDmissile

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 17:06

I saw one journo later describe that overtake as the moment the torch passed from Schumacher to Alonso and the new generation. Usual journo hype language, but it was a great move and looking back it's one of those things I'll always have in my highlights reel. The Prost Senna crash made me throw things at the telly at the time and still makes me mad to think such an amazing rivalry had to be settled like that. So yeah, Suzuka's produced some stand-out F1 moments. My favourite has got to be Murray Walker's commentary on the last lap in 96 though :cool:

My favourite was 2000 :love: :cry: (of joy)

Edited by SCUDmissile, 30 September 2012 - 17:06.


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#102 muramasa

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:29

It's worth noting we're just talking about if the race had been this weekend. There's no issue next weekend with any risks of typhoons etc.

it CAN indeed happen tho. Within last decade, quali had been postponed twice at Suzuka, one due to typhon, one due to intense rain (not typhoon). Summer-fall is typhoon season in eastern pacific rim of northern hemisphere, so if F1 keeps Suzuka (and Yeongam as well), someday it WILL happen.

Oh there is one small tropical low pressure system lurking around at mariana islands right now, that one may develop into typhoon and hit Japan next weekend, you never know. :cat: Thankfully forecast is looking ok-ish for next weekend atm, tho. :)

But given the amount of rain, the flooding, the potential damage etc, and with it being a double header, they wouldn't have moved it to the Monday if it was this weekend. This is all merely hypothetical, because we're not there this weekend, it's just a case of "what would have happened if we had been there this weekend"

oh yeah , forgot about double header with yeongam, there's logistic issue.. So Monday race is impossible then. Looking back how the typhoon prediction unfolded this time, I think most likely it wouldve been Saturday late afternoon race, proably announced within friday already.

I dont know how they compensate it for audience, but they arent dumb, thye must have plan already. I dont know about terms and condition for Suzuka tickets, but maybe ticket buyers are unknowingly forced (haha) to accept greater inconvenience in such cases.. having said that, such thing as re-scheduling main event of big once-a-year attraction like F1 is nothing but nightmare no matter what. they would do some big compensation and lose huge, I think..



#103 encircled

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:44

How old are you? Suzuka produce pretty good race especially when it was the season Finale. The Prost-Senna moment, Kimi on Fisichella 2005, Alonso on Schumacher at 130R, 2003 Japanese GP.

Schumacher vs Hakkinen in 2000 was pretty good too.

#104 Clatter

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 18:47

it CAN indeed happen tho. Within last decade, quali had been postponed twice at Suzuka, one due to typhon, one due to intense rain (not typhoon). Summer-fall is typhoon season in eastern pacific rim of northern hemisphere, so if F1 keeps Suzuka (and Yeongam as well), someday it WILL happen.

Oh there is one small tropical low pressure system lurking around at mariana islands right now, that one may develop into typhoon and hit Japan next weekend, you never know. :cat: Thankfully forecast is looking ok-ish for next weekend atm, tho. :)


oh yeah , forgot about double header with yeongam, there's logistic issue.. So Monday race is impossible then. Looking back how the typhoon prediction unfolded this time, I think most likely it wouldve been Saturday late afternoon race, proably announced within friday already.

I dont know how they compensate it for audience, but they arent dumb, thye must have plan already. I dont know about terms and condition for Suzuka tickets, but maybe ticket buyers are unknowingly forced (haha) to accept greater inconvenience in such cases.. having said that, such thing as re-scheduling main event of big once-a-year attraction like F1 is nothing but nightmare no matter what. they would do some big compensation and lose huge, I think..


I would expect any event to take out insurance for this eventuality. Even local village fetes do that.

#105 thegforcemaybewithyou

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 19:02

Don't know if it was posted before, but google street view gives you the chance to walk round suzuka.

Suzuka Track View :)

#106 muramasa

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 20:00

I would expect any event to take out insurance for this eventuality. Even local village fetes do that.

true, they must have backup or safety net, but still it's hard to imagine insurance can make it even for them for huge event like F1. I dont know much about insurance tho. Also more often than not losing hundreds of millions doesnt hurt big company that much or at least doesnt kill instantly, while mere few thousands can put small enterprize into immediate bankrupt, but Suzuka, like many other circuits, is barely making profits out of F1 lately, quite long time. Such thing as race rescheduling or cancellation can trigger a immidiate surrender any day. Fuji circuits made huge loss in 2007 by logistics mess, and they held 2008 race knowing they'd make huge loss yet again (this time they intended like that solely to fulfill audience satisfaction and not to repeat 2007 mess. they even sold alot fewer tickets intentionally. that's why there were some big empty stand areaa for 2008 race). In that sense Suzuka is in danger too, again like many other classic circuits. I doubt Suzuka can really afford such a big irregularity.


#107 Clatter

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Posted 30 September 2012 - 20:06

true, they must have backup or safety net, but still it's hard to imagine insurance can make it even for them for huge event like F1. I dont know much about insurance tho. Also more often than not losing hundreds of millions doesnt hurt big company that much or at least doesnt kill instantly, while mere few thousands can put small enterprize into immediate bankrupt, but Suzuka, like many other circuits, is barely making profits out of F1 lately, quite long time. Such thing as race rescheduling or cancellation can trigger a immidiate surrender any day. Fuji circuits made huge loss in 2007 by logistics mess, and they held 2008 race knowing they'd make huge loss yet again (this time they intended like that solely to fulfill audience satisfaction and not to repeat 2007 mess. they even sold alot fewer tickets intentionally. that's why there were some big empty stand areaa for 2008 race). In that sense Suzuka is in danger too, again like many other classic circuits. I doubt Suzuka can really afford such a big irregularity.


It's not hard at all, just that premiums can be quite high. I'd be really surprised if they had not insured against the race being cancelled.

#108 DarkknightRises

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 00:41

suzuka is underrated track imo.....mainly due to younger generation hyping the street circuits

#109 slmk

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:10

How old are you? Suzuka produce pretty good race especially when it was the season Finale. The Prost-Senna moment, Kimi on Fisichella 2005, Alonso on Schumacher at 130R, 2003 Japanese GP.


Apparently, you are not that old either, or you have a crappy memory - Alonso on Schumacher was in 2005 as well.

You could also consider what cars he has been driving in his career. The one race he had the car to win, he won.


Arguably, he could have won in the Brawn and didn't.

Edited by slmk, 01 October 2012 - 08:15.


#110 slmk

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:15

Early 20s but I think the main reason is that I started watching in 2007 so I've only seen the 2009, 2010 and 2011 races in their entirety. I've seen clips of all the moments you mention so I do have some sense of its history, but is there a chance it has built its reputation on being the last race of the season for quite a chunk of time? Prost-Senna could have happened anywhere given they both lasted about 200m.

I remember the excitement in 2009, the whisperings on the forums and in the media that Suzuka was back on the calendar. Given the awe it seems to inspire in many I just don't think it has delivered over the last few years. 2003 and 2005 were clearly exciting races though and I really want to like Suzuka given the fondness with which the drivers and fans speak about it.


It's not just you. Racing there has been very average except for 2000, 2005 and maybe 2011. Most of the other races in the last decade were processions.

#111 as65p

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:22

Pfft. Spoiled overtaking gimmicks generation. I would chose a procession in Suzuka over a race with 50 overtakes in Bahrain any day. Except for the last chicane, the track layout of Suzuka is marvellous.

#112 slmk

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:55

Pfft. Spoiled overtaking gimmicks generation. I would chose a procession in Suzuka over a race with 50 overtakes in Bahrain any day. Except for the last chicane, the track layout of Suzuka is marvellous.


I agree, somewhat. In that regard though, Spa is unique (great layout and racing). Suzuka has one, but not the other.

#113 Vesuvius

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:10

I agree, somewhat. In that regard though, Spa is unique (great layout and racing). Suzuka has one, but not the other.


I disagree, suzuka has both...layout is just fantastic and one of my favourite track in f1sims with spa and silverstone. It's really a racing track were a driver can make a difference! It has had faboullus races in the past: 1998,1999,2000,2003,2005 (which is one of the best races ever seen!) even last year there was great battle between Button,Alonso and Vettel.

Edited by Vesuvius, 01 October 2012 - 09:11.


#114 Kingshark

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:15

I only hope for an exciting race. It is a great circuit, after all.

#115 as65p

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:18

I agree, somewhat. In that regard though, Spa is unique (great layout and racing). Suzuka has one, but not the other.


Well, even if Suzuka falls short compared with the best track on the calendar, it's still great, or is it not? The only two things that could improve Suzuka, IMO, is a change to the last chicane and making the track wider by about 3 metres. Especially the latter will obviously never happen, sadly.

#116 WitnessX

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:30

...

Arguably, he could have won in the Brawn and didn't.


If he didn't have some dipstick crashing on in front of him (and others) on his qualifying lap he may have stood a chance. (Arguably)


#117 wingwalker

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 09:47

Don't know if it was posted before, but google street view gives you the chance to walk round suzuka.

Suzuka Track View :)




This is way cool, thanks! :up:


edit: in terms of track battle, I'd pick Suzuka over Spa. Every corner bar the chicane and hairpin is unique and challenging, even spa doesn't have that. But Spa produces better races.

Edited by wingwalker, 01 October 2012 - 09:48.


#118 medeni73

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:24

For now weather forecast says: sunny and clear friday through sunday with 25 C max temperature...looking good :)

#119 HuddersfieldTerrier1986

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 12:30

For now weather forecast says: sunny and clear friday through sunday with 25 C max temperature...looking good :)


Read a few years ago that (and don't quote me on this) after severe weather (in this case a typhoon) normally you get really good weather. Looks like that'll be the same this weekend. Anyway, random question. Who else is looking forward to another weekend of silly o'clock F1? Most definitely my favourite type of F1, as I'm 1 of those people who loves being up at silly o'clock watching F1.

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#120 selespeed

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 13:19

it's not as silly o'clock as it used to be...remember a race form 1992. allnighter in a disco...came home for the start of the race...fell asleep on the formation lap...woke up with patrese waving to the crowd...but i like early morning races!

#121 Jedi_F1

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 13:42

It's worth noting we're just talking about if the race had been this weekend. There's no issue next weekend with any risks of typhoons etc. But given the amount of rain, the flooding, the potential damage etc, and with it being a double header, they wouldn't have moved it to the Monday if it was this weekend. This is all merely hypothetical, because we're not there this weekend, it's just a case of "what would have happened if we had been there this weekend"



Actually there's risk,
CNN reported just that new typhoons coming up for Japan.. saying if these continue they probably hit land close to or in the weekend.

#122 muramasa

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 14:07

Actually there's risk,
CNN reported just that new typhoons coming up for Japan.. saying if these continue they probably hit land close to or in the weekend.

oh

that tropical low pressure system i mentioned while ago has indeed turned into typhoon no.19 and is walking towards Japan.

But atm it's not likely to hit Suzuka, and even if it is to hit, it will be on Thursday and GP weekend will be fine.

http://www.jma.go.jp/jp/typh/1219.html



#123 amppatel

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:14

Actually there's risk,
CNN reported just that new typhoons coming up for Japan.. saying if these continue they probably hit land close to or in the weekend.

Don't worry F1 cars have more than enough down force not to be flipped upside down. However the wet Pirelli tyres clear less water than my bicycle tryes...

Edited by amppatel, 01 October 2012 - 16:15.


#124 showtime

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:51

Why do i get the feeling you have jinxed him :|


Already a gearbox change :lol:


#125 Vesuvius

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:52

Autosport writes Button to have 5 grid penalty because of gearbox change! Weather should be nice and dry all weekend.

Edited by Vesuvius, 01 October 2012 - 16:52.


#126 midgrid

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 16:54

Why do i get the feeling you have jinxed him :|


Heh :D


#127 f1fastestlap

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:05

Jenson Button to get gearbox-change penalty for the Japanese GP

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103002

#128 Clatter

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:08

Jenson Button to get gearbox-change penalty for the Japanese GP

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103002


So that's 2 boxes with the same problem. Has something new been added or is there a manufacturing problem?

#129 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:10

Jenson Button to get gearbox-change penalty for the Japanese GP

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103002


good for Alonso (aka the lucky boy)

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 01 October 2012 - 17:10.


#130 WatchingF1since4yearsold

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:11

Jenson Button to get gearbox-change penalty for the Japanese GP

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103002


****s sake McLaren, gutted for Jenson, he was so good here last year :(

#131 muramasa

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:15

Weather should be nice and dry all weekend.

at the moment weekend weather prediction for Suzuka is

friday: cloudy, occasionally sunny
sat: cloudy, 40% chance of precipitation
sun: same as sat


dont believe predictions for Japan made by world weather services, they are often inaccurate, sometimes laughable level. For instance Japan weahter info by iOS's yahoo.com weather app gets even current local weather wrong here sometimes, I dont know how that's possible.


I hope it will be nice weather all weekend tho of course.


#132 SamH123

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:17

This is by far the best place to see what the weather might be like for an f1 race IMO:
http://f1weather.com/

#133 Sakae

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:31

Monaco -Spa - Monza - Suzuka

I would not mind if a winner of all four races would get extra 10 (ten) points bonus to his WDC credit. Really special. I do love this track. Terrible to get there, not much glitz around the track, but racing is at premium level. Just fantastic.

#134 muramasa

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:31

This is by far the best place to see what the weather might be like for an f1 race IMO:
http://f1weather.com/

unfortunately no, at least for Japan.
"GP will take place under a cloudless sky", hmm, looks like the writer is getting info from one of world weather services as i saw some of them predict it like that.

I sometimes see local weather predictions by non-japanese services as some websites automatically show it, but as I said they are often wrong, sometimes VERY.
I hope they are right this time tho!

Anyway here's pinpoint prediction for Suzuka circuit
http://tenki.jp/leis.../point-119.html

Edited by muramasa, 01 October 2012 - 17:32.


#135 HoldenRT

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:41

I wish we could just give Alonso the 2012 title and fast forward straight to 2013 and Melbourne.

Edited by HoldenRT, 01 October 2012 - 17:41.


#136 korzeniow

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:46

I wish we could just give Alonso the 2012 title and fast forward straight to 2013 and Melbourne.


As if Button was real contender, right

#137 Vesuvius

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:06

As if Button was real contender, right

No, but he would have been between Alonso and his competitors... So huge help for them.surely this is a good news for Alonso now.

#138 EvanRainer

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:06

Button's penalty actually has big championship implications. It means Alonso's and Vettel's chances of qualifying very close to the front of the grid get a much needed boost and at the same time the chances of Button taking points from them in the race lessen.

Edited by EvanRainer, 01 October 2012 - 18:07.


#139 RedOne

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:09

It has as much effect on Alonso as it does on Vettel or Kimi

Edited by RedOne, 01 October 2012 - 18:10.


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#140 Fatgadget

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:15

Might have been the prudent thing to do also for Lewis in Singapore.

Then again hindsight is etc etc.

#141 Sakae

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:45

So that's 2 boxes with the same problem. Has something new been added or is there a manufacturing problem?

It's just that Hamilton demanded level playing field, and this will do, for now.

Edited by Sakae, 01 October 2012 - 18:46.


#142 AlexS

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:12

Pfft. Spoiled overtaking gimmicks generation. I would chose a procession in Suzuka over a race with 50 overtakes in Bahrain any day. Except for the last chicane, the track layout of Suzuka is marvellous.


Yeah! dump the last chicane.

#143 Atreiu

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:51

In our dreams. Imagine JPMs 2005 crash but at 100 mph faster or more.

#144 muramasa

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:04


Monza, old Hockenheim etc has chicanes, Monza even 2. :)

Suzuka's chicane is fine, it's actually tricky and interesting section, it might not be visible on TV but the chicane entry to last corner to home straight is quite a downhill. We see many drivers screwing it, waving rear at chicane exit towards last corner as accelerating.


#145 as65p

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:11

good for Alonso (aka the lucky boy)


Gotta try really hard to see that as luck for Alonso, I think it's the opposite. Aside from Alonso winning the race himself, Button doing it would be the next best thing.

#146 fisssssi

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:27

I wish we could just give Alonso the 2012 title and fast forward straight to 2013 and Melbourne.


Me too, that would stop Vettel winning it again! (I just have an eerie feeling...)

#147 as65p

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:29

In our dreams. Imagine JPMs 2005 crash but at 100 mph faster or more.


Sure, cars must be slowed down there, but I don't see why it has to to a crawl. Something just a bit more flowing, making the cars no more than 15 to 20 mph faster at the end of the main straight. Like Variante Ascari in Monza, which is IMO as good as chicanes will ever get.

Anyway, just dreaming.

#148 P123

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:34

Sure, cars must be slowed down there, but I don't see why it has to to a crawl. Something just a bit more flowing, making the cars no more than 15 to 20 mph faster at the end of the main straight. Like Variante Ascari in Monza, which is IMO as good as chicanes will ever get.

Anyway, just dreaming.


Available space probably prevents anything faster. But the chicane is still a challenge- plenty of time to be made or lost there if the driver doesn't get the entry and/or exit correct.

#149 scheivlak

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:41

Monza, old Hockenheim etc has chicanes, Monza even 2. :)

Make that 3 :D

#150 as65p

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 21:45

Available space probably prevents anything faster. But the chicane is still a challenge- plenty of time to be made or lost there if the driver doesn't get the entry and/or exit correct.


True on both counts, of course far more time can be won or lost in the slow stuff than in fast curves. It's just that it's the rest of the track has such a magig flow to it, and then this part totally breaks the spell every lap.