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Michael Schumacher - Part III


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#851 aditya-now

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:28

I'm certainly going to miss having a heart attack every race. :D


Why is that? Schumi doesn't really crash every race....

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#852 george1981

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:30

This is why Schumacher didn't re-sign for Mercedes, the car is really really terrible. He knows the facts about the team... Lewis only knows the dreams of the team. The fact is it's a shambles, the dream is the same with every team... that they're making progress. But they aren't.


:up: The Brackley team always seem to struggle to get tyres to work. They've only had two good seasons; in 2004 when they switched to Michelins and in 2009 when they had a double diffuser giving them lots more downforce. They seemed to have a fundamental problem with tyres before Pirelli came along with 'raw egg' tyres.
Next year Pirelli have said they'll try to make the tyre temperature operating windows larger which might help this team more than others. It'll be too late for MS though.



#853 boldhakka

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:31

2sec off pace 2 races after major upgrade

Awesome


:lol:

It's crossed over from being sad to funny now.

#854 Wheels23

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:49

It's Pirelli sabotage. They just jealous of Michael. :p

Yeah I don't even know how they got backwards.

#855 dplayerx

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:57

It's Pirelli sabotage. They just jealous of Michael. :p

Yeah I don't even know how they got backwards.


If you're constantly moving in the wrong direction and then start to intensify your efforts, an upgrade is actually a downgrade.

But seriously: The services of Niki Lauda are certainly worth +1.5 seconds, and it's starting to pay off already. :lol:

Edited by dplayerx, 06 October 2012 - 10:58.


#856 Sakae

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:11

Schumi's Five Minute Confession

Sort of Michael surprised Ross and Haug and i feel He just didn't want to retire this way or this year.

Key words (by Haug) - he (MS) has done what he wanted to do, not what he had to do, which places some headlines I read such as "Hamilton is giving Schumacher boot" into a different perspective.

#857 mkoscevic

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:31

Schumacher drove a great Q today on Suzuka. Some things never change. :up:

#858 Pits

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:33

Schumacher drove a great Q today on Suzuka. Some things never change. :up:

Yeah, he is great on this track. Always has been...
Shame the car isn't up for it.

#859 SenorSjon

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:41

At least it looks pretty :|

Maybe with your eyes closed and thinking of a 94/95 Ferrari. ;)

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#860 DS27

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 11:44

Well done Michael - that's all that could be done with this POS. Good to out-qualify Nico again. Will be funny if Nico outperforms Lewis next year and put a different perspective on things (not that I actually expect this).

Looking forward to an entertaining drive from the back to where this car belongs - somewhere about P14.


#861 korzeniow

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:21

Schumacher on heavily updated Mercedes:

Posted Image

Edited by korzeniow, 06 October 2012 - 13:21.


#862 ali_M

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:35

Strange, so far I didn't have you down as one of those whishing posters with different opinions to go away cause they can't put up coherent counter arguments. On the contrary I believed you capable of doing that quite well, from discussion we had so far. Hope I wasn't wrong with that impression... :wave:


Well, I gotta make exceptions for the exceptional contributors. :p

Here's to Michael having a reasonable race tomorrow. :cool:

He certainly deserves it.

I fail to understand the number quibbling over such a multifactorial situation as performance during over a season by different drivers in different teams, looking at isolated car specs and such. Never could really wrap my mind around that sort of thing.... call me silly. What I do try to observe is how often they each took full advantage of the opportunities presented to them. How often they had me saying ... 'wow'. Michael, over the years has been darned exciting where that's concerned. For me anyway. So was Senna. I'm no 'Highlander' where for me where there can be only one. I'm happy to admire the two of them and not try to rationalise one into being much better than the other. They were both fantastic in their prime. Both enjoyed the benefits of quick machinery in their careers. Both did remarkable things with not so quick machinery in their careers. Both were up to shady ontrack behaviour in their careers. I really don't see the problem. Senna was the more charismatic, the more passionate and the more open of the two and won many fans for it. OTOH, Michael was more closed and cold, seemingly arrogant for it. He lost many potential fans for it. We're now seeing his more open side which casts an interesting perspective on his past.

Edited by ali_M, 06 October 2012 - 13:38.


#863 Urawa

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 13:51

Schumacher on heavily updated Mercedes:

Posted Image


Looks like they shortened the wheelbase a bit

#864 Augurk

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 14:01

Looks like they shortened the wheelbase a bit

Should give them more setup options and a bigger sweetspot window than the old W03.

#865 Wheels23

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 14:27

Maybe with your eyes closed and thinking of a 94/95 Ferrari.;)


I forgot how that looked. So I'm just going to picture a lawnmower



#866 as65p

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 17:25

Well, I gotta make exceptions for the exceptional contributors. :p

Here's to Michael having a reasonable race tomorrow. :cool:

He certainly deserves it.

I fail to understand the number quibbling over such a multifactorial situation as performance during over a season by different drivers in different teams, looking at isolated car specs and such. Never could really wrap my mind around that sort of thing.... call me silly.


Fully agree. Then again, I would hope you can get your mind around correcting plain wrong facts and blatant ignorance, as was the case here.

#867 Sakae

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:38

Schumacher on heavily updated Mercedes:

Posted Image

When Lauda said that he will start with clean sheet of paper, he wasn't kidding then. Well at least Ross thinks this is not a step backwards; it is always good to break a complex project into manageable modules, and to start with two wheels and basic chassis is as good idea as any they had this year.

#868 AJFIN

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 18:42

Any opinions on what he will drive in the future (if anything), except for ROC? I know he has said that he is done with Le Mans and he doesn't like DTM because he can't see the tires (although DTM cars are basically single seaters with a roof). He's also ruled out NASCAR and Indycars. Back to Formula Nippon or whatever it is called the next year? One can dream...

#869 MSCDesign

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 20:19

The thing which hurts me now the most..is Saubers being up there and far better than Merc.

#870 RedBaron

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 21:04

Schumacher on heavily updated Mercedes:

Posted Image


The rear tyre looks badly worn.

#871 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 21:08

The thing which hurts me now the most..is Saubers being up there and far better than Merc.


And knowing that he could've got a seat with them next season and probably be more competitive than the Mercs.

#872 DutchCruijff

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 21:16

No front wing, DRS invisible and worn tyres. All in all, sums up Mercedes a la 2012.

#873 ali.unal

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 21:22

Any opinions on what he will drive in the future (if anything), except for ROC? I know he has said that he is done with Le Mans and he doesn't like DTM because he can't see the tires (although DTM cars are basically single seaters with a roof). He's also ruled out NASCAR and Indycars. Back to Formula Nippon or whatever it is called the next year? One can dream...

I don't think he will drive any vehicle in the future. He could do Le Mans easily, but he doesn't fancy it at all.

And meanwhile no bike, I hope!

#874 MSCDesign

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 21:44

And knowing that he could've got a seat with them next season and probably be more competitive than the Mercs.


:cry:

#875 BetaVersion

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 23:09

Didn't follow live timing, was his lap in Q2 the best he could've done? From what the commentators were saying, he was already 0.2 up on Rosberg after the first sector, so maybe he could've squeezed out a bit more in the next two, under ideal conditions?


no, he had traffic at Spoon which according to telemetry cost him 2 tenths

I strongly suspect he could have gone even faster with another go on a new set of softs, as well

Micael shows superiority again! Only one lap, one try and beats Rosberg's multi attempts.

:up:

Mercedes should have sent him for 2 attempts with new softs as was the case for everybody in Q2(Red Bull, Button apart)

Edited by BetaVersion, 06 October 2012 - 23:11.


#876 BetaVersion

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 23:11

Just to follow up, Rosberg's time does look better in Q2 by 0.2, so maybe that's where the Q3 time was left behind.

Anyway, still starting on the last row.


what :confused:

I think both messed up S1 but even a good S1 wouldn't have been enough for Q3.
The track probably changed by 1 degree and the car gave up. Or it's a piece of crap.


I don't think so. None of them mentioned anything about S1, neither Brawn or Haug in PR. And we all know how Nico likes to say things like this even when he made the slightest mistake

MSC's S1 was very good, 2 tenths faster than Nico's. And Michael only had 1 attempt while Rosberg had 2

Edited by BetaVersion, 06 October 2012 - 23:15.


#877 black magic

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 23:33

the only track where nico has matched michael has been the mickey mouse ones. all the great driver tracs michal has matched him and even before this year.

#878 fbx

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 00:24

The thing which hurts me now the most..is Saubers being up there and far better than Merc.


This is the great lamentation. Sauber has a very nice car, quick and easy on the tires. I was hoping Michael would take a "victory lap" year with Sauber to very likely chalk up some points and demonstrate in no uncertain terms that it was the car and not himself that made his comeback such a sad show.

Ross Brawn & Co. ought to be apologizing to the ends of the earth for subjecting MSC to this grotesque imitation of an F1 car. It's an embarrassment to them, to Mercedes, and to the drivers. A laugh were it not so cruel to MSC.

I get why he didn't want to sign with Mercedes for another year on this "Silver Errors" but with Sauber right there, and Peter saying he wanted Michael, and money not really an issue, and even the prospect of Michael shifting to an ownership role later -- well, it looked the perfect setup to me.



#879 ClubmanGT

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 00:25

This is the great lamentation. Sauber has a very nice car, quick and easy on the tires. I was hoping Michael would take a "victory lap" year with Sauber to very likely chalk up some points and demonstrate in no uncertain terms that it was the car and not himself that made his comeback such a sad show.

Ross Brawn & Co. ought to be apologizing to the ends of the earth for subjecting MSC to this grotesque imitation of an F1 car. It's an embarrassment to them, to Mercedes, and to the drivers. A laugh were it not so cruel to MSC.

I get why he didn't want to sign with Mercedes for another year on this "Silver Errors" but with Sauber right there, and Peter saying he wanted Michael, and money not really an issue, and even the prospect of Michael shifting to an ownership role later -- well, it looked the perfect setup to me.


Yea, I'd be interested to know why this didn't come together.

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#880 ali_M

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:03

Yea, I'd be interested to know why this didn't come together.


Didn't you listen his retirement speech? He lacked 100% comittment to continue competing. Hamilton's entrance into the mix assisted with his deciding.

#881 ClubmanGT

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 01:11

Didn't you listen his retirement speech? He lacked 100% comittment to continue competing. Hamilton's entrance into the mix assisted with his deciding.


I wonder how much of that was " I can't be arsed showing up to work every day when the people around me can't seem to design, develop or set up a car or race strategy."

#882 DutchCruijff

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 02:17

I'm going to say something outlandish here but there is a chance, and I think for certain that an opportunity will arise, for him to make a comeback in 2014.

Rationale? There will be 2 guaranteed free seats available at Red Bull, if Raikkonen leaves and Grosjean fails to perform then there will be at least one, if not two, free seats at Renault AND, and this is a big if, but if Sauber step up to the plate again next year and Koba/Jaime screw up then Sauber will become a viable option for '14.

I can see at least 3, IMO Grosjean will bottle again/Raikkonen will leave, opportunities arising for him in 2014. At the same time I can't see anyone (Possibly Hulkenberg/di Resta/Kovalainen) stepping up to the plate to fill those 3-5 seats. So call it high hopes but if he wants to make a comeback, and he definitely did not shut the door in his retiring statement, there will be attractive options available.

Edited by DutchCruijff, 07 October 2012 - 02:18.


#883 SeanValen

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 03:12

I'm going to say something outlandish here but there is a chance, and I think for certain that an opportunity will arise, for him to make a comeback in 2014.

Rationale? There will be 2 guaranteed free seats available at Red Bull, if Raikkonen leaves and Grosjean fails to perform then there will be at least one, if not two, free seats at Renault AND, and this is a big if, but if Sauber step up to the plate again next year and Koba/Jaime screw up then Sauber will become a viable option for '14.

I can see at least 3, IMO Grosjean will bottle again/Raikkonen will leave, opportunities arising for him in 2014. At the same time I can't see anyone (Possibly Hulkenberg/di Resta/Kovalainen) stepping up to the plate to fill those 3-5 seats. So call it high hopes but if he wants to make a comeback, and he definitely did not shut the door in his retiring statement, there will be attractive options available.



I kinda agree. "Perhaps forever" PERHAPS. Big word. There is no finality in it. Take anoher break, rest up, realise mercedes/tyres, you did well, but the outfit was wrong, he did admiit wanting to achieve something, and maybe testing pirelli tyres, maybe even trying his best to bring back a f1 driver push car to the edge/rather then delta time feel, he clearly publically wanted to do something about driving on raw eggs.

I think Singapore updates was a big thing, he flew over to france when the other driver was testing the new parts, he clearly was expecting a performance benefit, know we got brawn telling us about it being developed over a period of races, well it's the last 6 races, and why wasn't this done earlier etc, it's a slow sevelopming team, and Schumacher needs bascially what Kimi got in his first year, podiums, imagine if MS had the lotus mercedes type performance back in 2011.

The first part of the year we got reliability and performance for Nico, and we got performance/bad reliability and team mistakes for MS-and of all places, Michael looked a contender for monaco win, one his favorite tracks, he does best performances, and the team fails him, 2011 Monaco was no different, rosberg hasn't looked good at Monaco in the last 3 years .

The amount of f duct failures/drs wing glitches in 2011/2011, we all thought this couldn't last, but it did, again in 2012, what the car has reliability, they are not fast enough, but it happens the same way across 3 years, MS keeps improving, threatens good results, then the team do alot of talking and no productive work for results on track.

Clearly Redbull and Mclaren have the best aero technology, ferrari are actually trying to catch up there, I can't see mercedes finding that leap, early year potential yes, development through year remains to be seen.

Schumacher can leave it like this, 3 years of frustations for 1 podium to his name, or end it on a better note, in 2010 alot of people thought he might not improve, but he did, now that he has, the case iin point, he signed up for the wrong team/

Schumacher has proven you can leave and comeback, he didn't think there would be a 2nd time. If there can be a 3rd time at least he can keep his ambitions in check this time, because he talked about the title and winning it with mercedes in 2011/, didn't happen. 2012 seemed positive, the car felt positive from the start, the problem was and we find out, it wasn't going to last.


Edited by SeanValen, 07 October 2012 - 03:32.


#884 exmayol

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 04:27

What I find particularly sad is that each year of his current stint had moments where I thought things were coming together. We all had expectations / hopes and most of them were not met.

In 2010 after a rusty start he's been very competetive Spain / Monaco / Turkey... and then we had mistakes, uninspiring drives, bad strategy calls, etc... MSC was clearly not comfortable. Only in Japan, Brasil, and Belgium he showed us his usual confident self yet it was too late and by that time he's been already slaughtered by the mass media. His qualifying pace being bad did not help either.

In 2011 MSC improved. Less erratic / inconsistent performances but still plenty of things going wrong, both inside and outside of his responsibility. At Canada it looked very promising but...

The start of 2012 looked great despite all the bad luck. We saw the man being consistently fast, comfortable with the car and all. Yet as season unfoldd, MGP goes backwards and few mistakes take place it suddenly looks gloomy and MSC decides to leave.

I surely hope for some inspiring drives in the last six races! Go get them, Michael!


#885 MSCDesign

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:06

What kind of fu*k up can we expect today?

#886 ClubmanGT

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 05:30

What kind of fu*k up can we expect today?


I'm expecting the team has installed seven reverse gears and one forward. Schumacher will finish seventh, Rosberg will podium and zealots will claim that Schumacher again scoring less points is solely down to his age.

#887 dav115

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 06:16

telemetry down already. again.

#888 Jejking

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:01

This is going to be a showdown between Webber and Schumacher for points after their final stops.

The race is not over yet!

#889 Lelouch

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:06

I think they pitted him a bit too late, but let's see how it pans out..

#890 Jejking

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:38

That was too bad, the limiter kicked in too early. Still a good race considering the shitbox he and Nico are driving in.

#891 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:39

Not particularly spectacular, would've been good to have passed Ricciardo.

#892 Diablobb81

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:40

Lost telemetry, pitted maybe too late for second stop, fuel saving in last stint.

Too bad that he didn't get a point for all the trouble.

#893 Urawa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:41

Jesus, only the 3 new teams were slower in S1 most of the time.
The SC went in too fast for him.

#894 MSchumi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 07:59

What an absolute waste of time this morning was. But then again, no telemetry, slow car - what was there to be expected! Would have been nice to actually get even that one point! Meh, sleeping would have served me better.

#895 aliasj

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:01

I had to bear with the unbearable stupid commentary of Steve Slater (Star Sports) again today, 10 years he's never changed.

"Sebastian Vettel drove a faultless race today, total domination, he must be proud to emulate his childhood hero ..... the Late Great Aryton Senna.."

Goodness. BS. Vettel's childhood hero was Schumacher, and Schumacher did really dominate at Suzuka.

#896 Macxtor

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:09

Great result for driving a crap-car from 23rd position. To bad the rev-limiter went in to early.

He is doing a great job considering the performance of the car. The car is the problem not Michael!!

It would have been awesome to see MSC in a Red-Bull car. That car is the best of the best and the driver
dont need to drive over the limit.

I feel soory for Hamilton if this problems continues

//Mac

Edited by Macxtor, 07 October 2012 - 08:11.


#897 Urawa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:15

Uh, he looked not very pleased speaking to RTL.
He said the they brought some updates here again, and another bunch next weekend, but they couldnĀ“t extract an improvement out of it AGAIN.

#898 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:18

Uh, he looked not very pleased speaking to RTL.
He said the they brought some updates here again, and another bunch next weekend, but they couldnĀ“t extract an improvement out of it AGAIN.

he drove very well for 11th position. of course he's not please :)
he just wants an opportunity

#899 Urawa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:37

Well at least the tyre wear looked good since the coanda exhaust was put on.
The other problem is that the car is "only" just plain slow now :lol:

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#900 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 08:39

by the rate of their improvement their tyres will look brand new at the end of the race by either
1) something falling apart on lap 1
2) the drivers going at turtle speed