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Michael Schumacher - Part III


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#1051 Talryyn

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 22:28

I am still going through the anxiety of it all, sure we all knew this day would come. But come on I race with 70-year olds ;) Actually I do, and I will admit one is able to beat while the other scares me as the closing speed is intense when I hit the straight with him in front of me.

For me F1 won't just be the same anymore, but I will still watch (unless NBC tape delays the races in 2013) and then I will probably just rage quit F1. I love getting up early in the morning, or not going to sleep just to watch the races. F1 has always been special for me since I was a young kid, and MS made them more so. First Atlas F1 and now MS, what is the world coming to? Sorry the depression is setting in again... :wave:



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#1052 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:14

ooopsy, you're Austrian? Actually I was thinking about Mateschitz, Marko, Lauda. From, the three, Lauda still has my respect, as a driver, but I don't see value in his most recent position. The noises he is making is frighteningly similar to that of Marko's, who I don't rate very highly. I fear he could do more harm than good. Forget the Austro-Hungarian themes, I am quite familiar with our history, and we have been a pain in the axx ourselves.


 ;)

Was just refreshing Austro-Hungarian sentiments...

It is an Austrian mafia in F1, true, and Lauda's position in Merc is indeed similar to Dr.Helmut Marko's.

Well, now you know why I feel so well and at home in this Michael Schumacher thread: Sakae and your nobles self being Hungarian, Ivan and Sharo being Bulgarians simply makes me feel a little at home.

Fascinating, that you guys find so much in Michael Schumacher - I would have understood you guys going now for Sebastian Vettel - but it must be something in Michael that has a special resonance with you.


#1053 weston

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:21

ooopsy, you're Austrian? Actually I was thinking about Mateschitz, Marko, Lauda. From, the three, Lauda still has my respect, as a driver, but I don't see value in his most recent position. The noises he is making is frighteningly similar to that of Marko's, who I don't rate very highly. I fear he could do more harm than good. Forget the Austro-Hungarian themes, I am quite familiar with our history, and we have been a pain in the axx ourselves.


Well, I expect Brawn to follow Schumacher in a year. Lauda was employed as consultant at Ferrari as part of an effort by Montezemolo to build a competitive F1 team in the 90's. As soon as Todt, Brawn and Schumacher had built up their team, Todt and Brawn slightly "pushed out" Lauda. Lauda plays a commissar role at Mercedes now. I do not know if I should feel sorry for the guys at Mercedes' Brackley factory or not, but there will be some fire there. (Sorry. It has nothing to do with Franz Joseph and his wars with Italy and the Dual Alliance with Germany).

Edited by weston, 12 October 2012 - 23:26.


#1054 aditya-now

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:30

Well, I expect Brawn to follow Schumacher in a year. Lauda was employed as consultant at Ferrari as part of an effort by Montezemolo to build a competitive F1 team in the 90's. As soon as Todt, Brawn and Schumacher had built up their team, Todt and Brawn slightly "pushed out" Lauda. Lauda plays a commissar role at Mercedes now. I do not know if I should feel sorry for the guys at Mercedes' Brackley factory or not, but there will be some fire there. (Sorry. It has nothing to do with Franz Joseph and his wars with Italy and the Dual Alliance with Germany).


"What goes around comes around" as they say...


#1055 Juan Kerr

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 23:31

;)

Was just refreshing Austro-Hungarian sentiments...

It is an Austrian mafia in F1, true, and Lauda's position in Merc is indeed similar to Dr.Helmut Marko's.

Well, now you know why I feel so well and at home in this Michael Schumacher thread: Sakae and your nobles self being Hungarian, Ivan and Sharo being Bulgarians simply makes me feel a little at home.

Fascinating, that you guys find so much in Michael Schumacher - I would have understood you guys going now for Sebastian Vettel - but it must be something in Michael that has a special resonance with you.

Michael Schumacher stood out head and shoulders in his generation and throughout a long career, none of the top guys in F1 today stand out in their generation or will particularly stand out over the course.

The other thing is that he is still as fast as the fresh faced young up-starts even now!

The next stand out Senna/Schumacher figure has not made it into the motorsport limelight yet as much as many people think they have.

#1056 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:59

The next stand out Senna/Schumacher figure has not made it into the motorsport limelight yet as much as many people think they have.


While Alonso and Vettel might not reel in Schumacher's record, they are well on course to become another extremely successful pair of drivers, like Senna and Prost were.

Especially so, if they are going to drive together for the Scuderia from 2014 onwards - it will be another Senna/Prost pairing, if it happens.

Whatever will be the case, both Alonso and Vettel seem poised to score many more wins in the years to come and the 51 GP wins of Prost and 41 GP wins of Senna are possibly being equalled or even transcended.

So instead of having the lonely Schumacher figure that we had for 1994 - 2004, there is again a pair of drivers that stand out - while Lewis possibly will be fading, especially if his brain fades and twittergates are going to continue at this rate.

#1057 Atonal

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:18

Shades of 2010/2011 in Michael's qualifying today.
First he cannot match his FP3 times on the hard tyre in Q1 by quite a distance and has to go onto the softs.
Later in Q3 he makes no improvement on his Q2 time which was set very early in that session.
Sometimes the Mercedes' reactions to Michael's setups as qualifying progresses leaves me surprised.

#1058 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:20

Used supersofts in Q3 lap. He didn't really want to go out. Felt it was pointless.

Edited by Diablobb81, 13 October 2012 - 06:21.


#1059 Atonal

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:21

Was Nico on a new set?

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#1060 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:23

No idea.

#1061 ivand911

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:24

I just hope for no penalty this time around. Q was little scary. Time in S3 is ridiculous. They were faster only than the new teams there.

Edited by ivand911, 13 October 2012 - 06:26.


#1062 Atonal

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:28

No idea.


Okay thanks.
Nico should have been on a new set as he only ran twice on the SS before Q3 whereas Michael used all his SSs by the end of Q2.

#1063 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:30

I'm thinking the same. Don't really know why he did the lap though, under such circumstances.

#1064 exmayol

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:39

Shades of 2010/2011 in Michael's qualifying today.
First he cannot match his FP3 times on the hard tyre in Q1 by quite a distance and has to go onto the softs.
Later in Q3 he makes no improvement on his Q2 time which was set very early in that session.
Sometimes the Mercedes' reactions to Michael's setups as qualifying progresses leaves me surprised.


I wouldn't worry much about some inconsistency today. Lets hope for a clean race and a finish higher than p10 or p9 ;)

#1065 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:17

Old used supersofts or a brand new set?

#1066 Hanzo

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:38

It is worst than that: He got reprimanded for "impeding" a car in the all relevant, and very important, Friday Practice Session. He got impeded in qualifying at Suzuka. The stewards didn't even bother in investigating the incident after he complained about it (but they were all too busy looking if Vettel impeded an Alonso who, actually, broke late, and hence miss the entrance for the final chicane...)



It is obvious that you did not watch the incident. De la Rosa left the space to Michael and then Schumi suddenly throws his car towards the spanish driver to complain blocking him in a dangerous way. Well deserved reprimand. Sorry I can not find a video of the incident.

#1067 Urawa

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:19

He said best lap was set on a used set of super softs (first run of Q2) and they need to look into it why the grip just wasn´t there on the Q3 run.


#1068 MSCDesign

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 13:34

;)

Was just refreshing Austro-Hungarian sentiments...

It is an Austrian mafia in F1, true, and Lauda's position in Merc is indeed similar to Dr.Helmut Marko's.

Well, now you know why I feel so well and at home in this Michael Schumacher thread: Sakae and your nobles self being Hungarian, Ivan and Sharo being Bulgarians simply makes me feel a little at home.

Fascinating, that you guys find so much in Michael Schumacher - I would have understood you guys going now for Sebastian Vettel - but it must be something in Michael that has a special resonance with you.


It's the fighting spirit. To never give up, to work as hard as possible. To be the oldest by far, but still in best fitness condition.

It's this:
Posted Image

Being mature, never blaming the team. Always accept penalties, even if they are not fair(monaco 2010). Never looking in the past, but in the future.

To always rise the game after all the critics, after all team fu*k ups.

To go to young driver test at Magny Cours to see the update package and to talk with Sam Bird, to get some info and feedback.

To use every damn inch on the track with the dog of the car. Agressive style. To be the best team player Formula 1 has ever had!

To not act like dumb ass off the track like Hamilton, Vettel and other immature children.

He is a true sportman, idol of many young sport mans.

Edited by MSCDesign, 13 October 2012 - 13:35.


#1069 aliasj

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 13:49

It's the fighting spirit. To never give up, to work as hard as possible. To be the oldest by far, but still in best fitness condition.

It's this:
Posted Image

Being mature, never blaming the team. Always accept penalties, even if they are not fair(monaco 2010). Never looking in the past, but in the future.

To always rise the game after all the critics, after all team fu*k ups.

To go to young driver test at Magny Cours to see the update package and to talk with Sam Bird, to get some info and feedback.

To use every damn inch on the track with the dog of the car. Agressive style. To be the best team player Formula 1 has ever had!

To not act like dumb ass off the track like Hamilton, Vettel and other immature children.

He is a true sportman, idol of many young sport mans.


+1

and.. in his second career being much more honest, fun, relaxed. Admitting mistakes, admitting blame, accepting losing.
I'd love to make a documentary about Michael.

#1070 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:04

It's the fighting spirit. To never give up, to work as hard as possible. To be the oldest by far, but still in best fitness condition.

It's this:
Posted Image


:up:

That is impressive. Michael being in the garage and already working when no one else is. He will miss the sport.

Edited by aditya-now, 13 October 2012 - 14:05.


#1071 seahawk

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:08

My respect for the man grows bigger every day. I mean he is on the way out, the car is crap and yet he is working like he is fighting for the WDC. For me the 3 years with Mercedes have made him a legend, more so than his first career, because back then he was "just" the most successful driver, but this time he showed that he is a racer by heart and does it for the love of racing, not for winning. I will miss him and I must say he changed my view of some current drivers in the last months.

#1072 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:18

Its a shame Mercedes did not be succesful with Schumacher.

However I think he has sown the seeds for succes with the team; work ethic professionalism, commitment etc.

I think some of his team must have been intimidated by his frenetic work ethic to the point of making so many mistakes. Working with a legwnd should have been an honour and privelege instead we saw so many internal implosions from his camp *sigh*. His old school style may have been too much for the largely Anglo assembly at Brackley. They should have learned so much and risen to the challenge

All in my humble opinion.

#1073 my_own_shadow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:42

It's the fighting spirit. To never give up, to work as hard as possible. To be the oldest by far, but still in best fitness condition.

It's this:
Posted Image

Being mature, never blaming the team. Always accept penalties, even if they are not fair(monaco 2010). Never looking in the past, but in the future.

To always rise the game after all the critics, after all team fu*k ups.

To go to young driver test at Magny Cours to see the update package and to talk with Sam Bird, to get some info and feedback.

To use every damn inch on the track with the dog of the car. Agressive style. To be the best team player Formula 1 has ever had!

To not act like dumb ass off the track like Hamilton, Vettel and other immature children.

He is a true sportman, idol of many young sport mans.

+1 000 000 :up: :love:

In my eyes Michael is like a hero played by Sylvester Stallone.


#1074 ali_M

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 14:58

:up:

That is impressive. Michael being in the garage and already working when no one else is. He will miss the sport.


I doubt that has anything with missing the sport. It's just how he works .... period. He says over and over again that he will not agree to a contract unless he sees himself willing to put 100% effort into his driving and work with the team for the duration of the contract. His capacity for hard work is already well known. His integrity with regard to continuing his efforts until the end of his contract is not at all surprising.

I'll definitely miss him. Vettel has learnt a lot about his attention to detail and we're seeing what that's doing for him.

10th in qualifying ... :rolleyes:

#1075 my_own_shadow

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:04

Its a shame Mercedes did not be succesful with Schumacher.

However I think he has sown the seeds for succes with the team; work ethic professionalism, commitment etc.

I think some of his team must have been intimidated by his frenetic work ethic to the point of making so many mistakes. Working with a legwnd should have been an honour and privelege instead we saw so many internal implosions from his camp *sigh*. His old school style may have been too much for the largely Anglo assembly at Brackley. They should have learned so much and risen to the challenge


Sometime it reminds me a Fangio and BRM partnership in early 1950s... Great driver, maybe the greatest ever, but a car (inspite of the most powerful engine) and entire team (inspite of champions hopes and high expectations) look like a nightmare...



#1076 Urawa

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:25

faz.net

Full interview available now.


#1077 Sakae

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:52

faz.net

Full interview available now.

That helps to close the circle, although not entirely. External perception of a fan is that there is one of a broken relationship left behind at Brackley which he hasn’t touched upon, and was studiously avoided during the interview, and then his future, what’s next?

Edited by Sakae, 13 October 2012 - 17:12.


#1078 sanW10

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 15:53

MSC hasnt inspired just sportsmen/women but a lot of ordinary people too, like me.
I'm going to Indian GP this year, just for MSC.
really gonna miss him this time.

imo Montezmolo should have phoned Michael & 'ordered' him like a dad to drive the Ferrari next year, giving him the chance to fight for WDC one last time.

I'd like him to just completely isolate from Mercedes & go back to his mentor - Todt.
actually these two are the best example of Mentor - Mentee.



#1079 Wheels23

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 16:08

MSC hasnt inspired just sportsmen/women but a lot of ordinary people too, like me.
I'm going to Indian GP this year, just for MSC.
really gonna miss him this time.

imo Montezmolo should have phoned Michael & 'ordered' him like a dad to drive the Ferrari next year, giving him the chance to fight for WDC one last time.

I'd like him to just completely isolate from Mercedes & go back to his mentor - Todt.
actually these two are the best example of Mentor - Mentee.


Going to be weird seeing Schumi out of the sport....again

The only thing that could feel more weird is Ponting and Tendulkar retiring. :(

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#1080 schumimercamg

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:05

:up:

That is impressive. Michael being in the garage and already working when no one else is. He will miss the sport.



As usual you have it the wrong way round. The sport will miss him.

#1081 Jejking

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:17

Why can't it be both ways? Come on peeps, hug a tree, kiss each other, get a room. I think both those sentences apply.

#1082 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:35

As usual you have it the wrong way round. The sport will miss him.


As usual you did not understand. I will not miss him.


#1083 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:37

Why can't it be both ways? Come on peeps, hug a tree, kiss each other, get a room. I think both those sentences apply.


That's fair, Jejking.

Balanced and accurate. :up:









Forget about the tree-hugging, kissing part though :p


#1084 aditya-now

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 21:43

faz.net

Full interview available now.


He obviously had to say those things to put the picture right.

Both in 2006 and in 2012 he left out of his own volition - and yet the impression arose that both times he was shafted out. What is the truth? Different journos and different "fans" will chose the respective version they will prefer....

#1085 SeanValen

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 03:46

My respect for the man grows bigger every day. I mean he is on the way out, the car is crap and yet he is working like he is fighting for the WDC. For me the 3 years with Mercedes have made him a legend, more so than his first career, because back then he was "just" the most successful driver, but this time he showed that he is a racer by heart and does it for the love of racing, not for winning. I will miss him and I must say he changed my view of some current drivers in the last months.



Like he's said, he's able to focus and yet be open. This is someone enjoying and taking in life. Whether Micheal is jumping and doing Schumi leaps on the podium or talking about losing being as instructive as winning, he always provides a bit of reflection and perspective. This is what I think makes him interesting beyond being a f1 driver, but because he happens to have had the biggest success, and raced against 3 generations of rivals, the fact he has had this longitude, we as f1 fans have witnessed a career that may not be replicated anytime soon.

But what Alesi recently said it quite telling. Schumacher has lost the winning philosophy, not by choice, but by situation and time being against him. He could of retired at various points in his career. But when he retires, whether it's Brazil 2006 or 2012, you can tell he wants to give it his all, but he is so much more accepting of the situation, ri's a different Schumacher, not worse or better, just a organic change of direction given his journey.

I would find it quite unusual to watch Senna grow older and retire from f1, and comeback etc When you get older, you appreciate somethings you didn't when younger. Schumacher spent many years being deeply focfused on performing, and winning the title for ferrari, set backs and broken leg, these sort of things, the energy required, mental, you need to be on a level that is unknown to us, these drivers live in a different world, and Schumacher I think put alot of pressure on himself to maintain standards and work ethic, and if travel alot in the year, and do the same thing, he did that for a long time, and alot of people were surprised just how long he kept on going at ferrari, so I think he gave himself a time limit on mercedes, and when your going for glory, it's a long 3 years, and no gurantees on good cars in the next 2 years either, so, he took that gamble, and on paper, I think many of us were expecting a better 2012, and maybe for the first half, reliability wise, MS could of gotten something out of it, maybe a Monaco win, but it's clear, other then getting older, this f1 is different, the tyres mean we won't actually see him push for speed like we used too, in some ways we have been robbed of seeing if the old MS could still do the old MS fastest laps after fastest laps stints, be it car and tyre, running to delta times, it's not just mercedes not competing for wins, but the nature of actually attacking a f1 car, it's way different, he's comeback to a f1 that isn't playing to his strengths or rreally any driver's best strengths, his attack on pirelling earlier in the year was a statement publically, he doesn't usually do comments like that.


All in all we clearly saw MS improve, but mercedes didn't enough and f1 hasn't gotten it's rules right so we can see the best drivers pushing in races without worrying about tyres and conserving, this isn't the f1 we would like to see MS in, but the fact he put up with it, and adapted to it, to be competitive is a testament, but it does make you wonder just what we possibly have missed in these 3 years, t wasn't to be, but f1 has kept changing, maybe too much in wrong ways , and maybe in a way that took away too much for drivers.

#1086 Fildischum

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 04:31

Like he's said, he's able to focus and yet be open. This is someone enjoying and taking in life. Whether Micheal is jumping and doing Schumi leaps on the podium or talking about losing being as instructive as winning, he always provides a bit of reflection and perspective. This is what I think makes him interesting beyond being a f1 driver, but because he happens to have had the biggest success, and raced against 3 generations of rivals, the fact he has had this longitude, we as f1 fans have witnessed a career that may not be replicated anytime soon.

But what Alesi recently said it quite telling. Schumacher has lost the winning philosophy, not by choice, but by situation and time being against him. He could of retired at various points in his career. But when he retires, whether it's Brazil 2006 or 2012, you can tell he wants to give it his all, but he is so much more accepting of the situation, ri's a different Schumacher, not worse or better, just a organic change of direction given his journey.

I would find it quite unusual to watch Senna grow older and retire from f1, and comeback etc When you get older, you appreciate somethings you didn't when younger. Schumacher spent many years being deeply focfused on performing, and winning the title for ferrari, set backs and broken leg, these sort of things, the energy required, mental, you need to be on a level that is unknown to us, these drivers live in a different world, and Schumacher I think put alot of pressure on himself to maintain standards and work ethic, and if travel alot in the year, and do the same thing, he did that for a long time, and alot of people were surprised just how long he kept on going at ferrari, so I think he gave himself a time limit on mercedes, and when your going for glory, it's a long 3 years, and no gurantees on good cars in the next 2 years either, so, he took that gamble, and on paper, I think many of us were expecting a better 2012, and maybe for the first half, reliability wise, MS could of gotten something out of it, maybe a Monaco win, but it's clear, other then getting older, this f1 is different, the tyres mean we won't actually see him push for speed like we used too, in some ways we have been robbed of seeing if the old MS could still do the old MS fastest laps after fastest laps stints, be it car and tyre, running to delta times, it's not just mercedes not competing for wins, but the nature of actually attacking a f1 car, it's way different, he's comeback to a f1 that isn't playing to his strengths or rreally any driver's best strengths, his attack on pirelling earlier in the year was a statement publically, he doesn't usually do comments like that.


All in all we clearly saw MS improve, but mercedes didn't enough and f1 hasn't gotten it's rules right so we can see the best drivers pushing in races without worrying about tyres and conserving, this isn't the f1 we would like to see MS in, but the fact he put up with it, and adapted to it, to be competitive is a testament, but it does make you wonder just what we possibly have missed in these 3 years, t wasn't to be, but f1 has kept changing, maybe too much in wrong ways , and maybe in a way that took away too much for drivers.


Nice read sean as always. I guest we could never know how fast michael still is. I miss the old days of qualifying lap after lap, attempting an overtake then failing after you lock up but then still being able to overtake and attack again, now you only have 1-2 attempts and then back to nursing the tyres. F1 will never be the same without michael for me, i am grateful to have seen him race once this season before he disappears again.

#1087 baddog

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:00

He obviously had to say those things to put the picture right.

Both in 2006 and in 2012 he left out of his own volition - and yet the impression arose that both times he was shafted out. What is the truth? Different journos and different "fans" will chose the respective version they will prefer....

Some will choose the version made up by journos, others the version from the horse's mouth. Up to you which kind you are ;)

#1088 MSCDesign

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 05:40

Race day. 20 minutes before the start.

Obviously Jenson Button will have a good race with loads of fresh tyres.

Low temperatures, so good conditions for merc, but MSC used a lot tyres yesterday. Let's see, let's hope a positive surprise from the legend.

#1089 ivand911

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:16

That car is sooo slow. 2sec/lap.

#1090 exmayol

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:17

That car is sooo slow. 2sec/lap.


Yep. Live timing is a pain to look at.

#1091 ivand911

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:22

STR is 1 sec faster than MGP? Different tyres? They have leaders pace.

Edited by ivand911, 14 October 2012 - 06:24.


#1092 exmayol

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:44

Even 1st sector is embarassing... I can only admire MSC for his dedication to drive this thing to the end of the race.

#1093 ivand911

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:50

I just wonder why MS hesitate to sign this team for next year? :lol: Is it to late for STR?

Edited by ivand911, 14 October 2012 - 06:53.


#1094 Diablobb81

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:54

I honestly would have parked the car.

#1095 Macxtor

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:01

The Mercedes is fast!!!.. Not!! 2-3 sec behind the frontrunners, HAHA.

I hope people understand Michaels situation now....


Edited by Macxtor, 14 October 2012 - 07:02.


#1096 mkoscevic

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:08

Great defending by Schumacher there against Di Resta.

#1097 Longtimefan

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:12

I'm going to miss Michael soooooo much but on the other hand I'm sooooo glad he's leaving that damn team.


Merc are beyond a joke... Truly pitiful



#1098 Massa_f1

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:14

The Mercedes is fast!!!.. Not!! 2-3 sec behind the frontrunners, HAHA.

I hope people understand Michaels situation now....



Yea well the team is one of the worst in F1. Here is hoping they keep up there downward form into next year.

#1099 MSCDesign

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:18

I hope they'll be even worse next year. So hope HAM will suffer like MS.

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#1100 DS27

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 07:23

Yep, it will be a relief.

On his comeback, I remeber being surprised and disappointed that Michael was having to fight Torro Rosso's in some of the races. It seemed so bizarre, and the commentators used to make a big thing about how MS was having to fight with these lower / midfield cars.

3 Years on, and where are Merc now? Exactly where they were when MS first joined or perhaps even slower. It no longer even feels strange that Merc are getting overtaken by Force India's and Torro's Rosso's, and the commentators no longer make a big deal of it.

The only way it could be worse is if we were Lewis fans who have all this to come.

Edited by DS27, 14 October 2012 - 07:24.