Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 9 votes

Michael Schumacher - Part III


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
2749 replies to this topic

#101 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,523 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:45

What do you think, how muck support will MS get in the next few races (from the Merc Team)?



The less the better. Just stay far away from the car. :rotfl:

Advertisement

#102 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 925 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 28 September 2012 - 10:52

Schumacher will replace Massa, trust me on this!

That is something I would really love to see. Schumi/Alonso at Ferrari :love:
Its a bit tough on Schumacher, who has generally matched Rosberg this year. But I can't say I blame Mercedes; Hamilton is more highly rated and a lot younger

#103 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,757 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:00

michael is clearly looking into options. he hasn't announced retirement and it's clear that he doesn't have his mind set to retire

#104 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,412 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:03

What do you think, how muck support will MS get in the next few races (from the Merc Team)?


He didn't receive any support before. I guess they will underfuel his car from now on.

#105 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:04

Well, I support Michael in whatever he does. It's no shame if he decides to throw in the towl and enjoy his retirement.
He will always be the best Formula 1 has ever seen and Merc will from now on always be the team that let him down.

#106 MikeTekRacing

MikeTekRacing
  • Member

  • 5,757 posts
  • Joined: October 04

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:05

He didn't receive any support before. I guess they will underfuel his car from now on.

well that will make him faster :))
the car usually fails anyway so why carry the fuel

#107 smoothcrim

smoothcrim
  • Member

  • 426 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:05

The PR stunt is over for Schumacher,hang up the racing boots for **** sake.He makes more mistakes than Maldonado,its over.

#108 Tarzaan

Tarzaan
  • Member

  • 1,217 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:05

He didn't receive any support before. I guess they will underfuel his car from now on.



Same thought

crash.net articles. Nothing new, but there are some comments.

http://www.crash.net...re_unclear.html

http://www.crash.net...to_deliver.html

http://www.crash.net..._confirmed.html


#109 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:13

Are we now suppose to believe that it was Michael's initial indecison on his intent that led Mercedes signing up Hamilton? Some emerging articles implying so, but I am not convinced that it is as simple as that.

Edited by Sakae, 28 September 2012 - 11:14.


#110 Sof1

Sof1
  • Member

  • 596 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:14

I don't think Michael will make an announcement today.

he probably would announce something in october, as he promised he would. So thats for next week.

#111 KavB

KavB
  • Member

  • 1,095 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:15

He would have been out even if Schumacher decided to continue. I think that is just PR talk to downplay the "betrayal" of Michael that fans feel.

#112 Sakae

Sakae
  • Member

  • 19,256 posts
  • Joined: December 03

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:19

michael is clearly looking into options. he hasn't announced retirement and it's clear that he doesn't have his mind set to retire

Sauber site is quiet about Perez's departure from the team. Obviously they are running business litle differently, but I have been wondering if there will be any hint that Michael could be associated with them in some capacity (not necessarilly as a driver).

Edited by Sakae, 28 September 2012 - 11:43.


#113 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,824 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:20

From sport.de:

Das Aus bei Mercedes kam für Schumacher dennoch überraschend. Über einen Wechsel zu einem anderen Team hatte der siebenmalige Champion offenbar noch nicht nachgedacht. Auf die Frage, ob sich Schumacher mit einer Fortsetzung seiner Karriere bei einem anderen Rennstall beschäftige, sagte seine Managerin Sabine Kehm am Freitag: "Das ist heute einfach kein Thema."

aka

The departure from Mercedes came for Schumacher still as a surprise. The seven-time world champion had not thought clearly about switching to another team. When asked if Schumacher is interested to continue his career with another racing team, his manager Sabine Kehm said on Friday: "This is now a non-issue."


Literally it's "today this is simply not a topic", and I would phrase it as "that's not a topic for today" when trying to capture the meaning in a fluid English translation.

#114 skinnylizard

skinnylizard
  • Member

  • 9,637 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:20

what are Michael-Ferrari relations like with today's team? i mean Brawn & Todt aren't there any more. is he good with
Luca diM? if Ferrari were looking to replace Massa with a stop gap till Vettel in 2014 it would make sense. However i don't see them firing Massa at all if that were to be the case.

I do think that MS just wants a win or two and then he will go away for good this time.

#115 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,412 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:20

They blame Schumacher hesitated with his decision, but I belief they want to extend 1 year and Schumacher wanted 1+1. Bit of an odd spin bij BAR.

#116 KnucklesAgain

KnucklesAgain
  • Member

  • 4,824 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:22

Why with the Sauber?

Guy running Force India, however you spell his name V... M..., is pretty stuffed financially. Force India is in a relationship with Mercedes already. Surely they pull strings and get him sitting there in 2013. Schumacher may even buy part of the team to give the current owner some cash, which he rather needs.


:confused:

#117 ayali

ayali
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:28

This is a PR disaster for Merc. The way they handled it. Just check out the reactions on their FB page: http://www.facebook....EDESAMGPETRONAS

LOL thanks
Geezz you'd think they would hail the new signing but it's all negativity and angry people about the way they allegedly treated Michael

#118 jeze

jeze
  • Member

  • 2,973 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:32

what are Michael-Ferrari relations like with today's team? i mean Brawn & Todt aren't there any more. is he good with
Luca diM? if Ferrari were looking to replace Massa with a stop gap till Vettel in 2014 it would make sense. However i don't see them firing Massa at all if that were to be the case.

I do think that MS just wants a win or two and then he will go away for good this time.

He's got excellent relations with Luca and Stefano, but of course none of those three would want a legend like Schumacher being hung out to dry by Alonso next year, it's better keeping Massa.

Also, Alonso and Schumacher have never had the best relationship, vastly different to the mutual respect between Alonso and Vettel in that sense.

Considering how well Alonso is driving this season, it wouldn't surprise me if Schumacher is no improvement on Massa either.

Massa for 2013, Vettel likely for 2014.

For Schumacher it's Sauber or bust. He could fund the drive through pocket money if he needed to.

Edited by jeze, 28 September 2012 - 11:32.


#119 MarcelBrDirani

MarcelBrDirani
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:34


Hard to beleive he will retire like this. Mercedes wasn´t nice to him at all. I can´t see any reason why they hummiliated him. Maybe they know something we don´t.


Schumacher will "buy" a number one status at Sauber or any other team. It would be a win win situation. He will beat his teamate (the only "fair" comparison) and if the car is good enough, he would "beat" the top guys.



Advertisement

#120 Shambolic

Shambolic
  • Member

  • 604 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:37

F#@$K you Merc! :mad:


Damn, I wanted to be the first to say that.

Rumour was Schumacher was looking for a possible two year contract - I'll be amazed if Hamilton lasts longer than that in this directionless clustercoitus of a team, and he'll cost them more. Chances are he'll be less of a "team player" when it comes to putting on a good public face each time his DRS jams, wheels fall off, gearbox fails, fuel pump packs in, team sends him out too late to put a lap in..

Last year Schumacher matched and possibly even outraced Rosberg, but wild driving and car failures left him less than a second place in points behind Rosberg. This year Merc failed him in far more races than he has failed them, and at a time when the car was able to get decent points. Take out the car failures and team errors and once again the driver pairing would be very close on the points table, with Schumacher's Singapore and Barcelona moments probably leaving him marginally behind. Yet throughout this period of out qualifying, outracing Rosberg, there's never felt to be support from the team. Brawn has tended to be more complimentary to Rosberg, and Haug never says a bad word about anyone to the point where I question the sincerity of his praises when given.

So now we see a situation where a very fast, naturally gifted, but also petulant, stroppy, whining "great" is being shoved into a midfield car full of failed promise. A car which even with the great in season development leader Bob Bell has gone backwards. A car that has managed one win in three years, and even then failed to get the other car over the line to make that a one two. The dream team might have been too late to design this years car, but they're all there now yet the boss said they were holding off developments till they understood the tyres, and now says they should maybe have done the opposite. Where are the updates, the flaw fixes, from these dream team designers for the current car? Given next year the regulations stay pretty much the same, there's no reason not to be trying to improve what they have now. But then we saw a very lucky 5th for a corner cutting, attrition place gaining Merc driver last time out post update - A 5th that would have been closer to a 10th on pace if other teams and drivers hadn't had "one to forget".

If Schumacher wants to retire, then fair enough, one can hardly blame him after seeing his commitment, motivation, talent squandered and now ultimately disrespected. But this move from Mercedes looks more as though they're putting their lack of success on his shoulders, and announcing a lack of faith in him. To have one of the best of all time, who came back effectively as a rookie after three years out, returning to cars very different to the previous ones he experienced, still able to put in as good or better showings than rookies half his age.. To have this 40something driver regularly keeping up with and beating (by a second or more in the wet too) his previously highly regarded vastly younger team mate.. In all but name ousted in such an ignominious way, should have Brawn and Haug hanging their heads in shame.

Schumacher may be too big a man, too professional a person, to say this, but I'm neither. F*ck you Mercedes. It's just a shame you took and tarnished one of the best, squandering much of his time left to shine behind an F1 wheel.

#121 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,523 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:38

Some comments from Kehm
http://www.bbc.co.uk.....| UK Edition)

#122 Pits

Pits
  • Member

  • 415 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:42

F*ck you Mercedes.


Good post! :up:

#123 03011969

03011969
  • Member

  • 499 posts
  • Joined: September 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:44

Damn, I wanted to be the first to say that.

Rumour was Schumacher was looking for a possible two year contract - I'll be amazed if Hamilton lasts longer than that in this directionless clustercoitus of a team, and he'll cost them more. Chances are he'll be less of a "team player" when it comes to putting on a good public face each time his DRS jams, wheels fall off, gearbox fails, fuel pump packs in, team sends him out too late to put a lap in..

Last year Schumacher matched and possibly even outraced Rosberg, but wild driving and car failures left him less than a second place in points behind Rosberg. This year Merc failed him in far more races than he has failed them, and at a time when the car was able to get decent points. Take out the car failures and team errors and once again the driver pairing would be very close on the points table, with Schumacher's Singapore and Barcelona moments probably leaving him marginally behind. Yet throughout this period of out qualifying, outracing Rosberg, there's never felt to be support from the team. Brawn has tended to be more complimentary to Rosberg, and Haug never says a bad word about anyone to the point where I question the sincerity of his praises when given.

So now we see a situation where a very fast, naturally gifted, but also petulant, stroppy, whining "great" is being shoved into a midfield car full of failed promise. A car which even with the great in season development leader Bob Bell has gone backwards. A car that has managed one win in three years, and even then failed to get the other car over the line to make that a one two. The dream team might have been too late to design this years car, but they're all there now yet the boss said they were holding off developments till they understood the tyres, and now says they should maybe have done the opposite. Where are the updates, the flaw fixes, from these dream team designers for the current car? Given next year the regulations stay pretty much the same, there's no reason not to be trying to improve what they have now. But then we saw a very lucky 5th for a corner cutting, attrition place gaining Merc driver last time out post update - A 5th that would have been closer to a 10th on pace if other teams and drivers hadn't had "one to forget".

If Schumacher wants to retire, then fair enough, one can hardly blame him after seeing his commitment, motivation, talent squandered and now ultimately disrespected. But this move from Mercedes looks more as though they're putting their lack of success on his shoulders, and announcing a lack of faith in him. To have one of the best of all time, who came back effectively as a rookie after three years out, returning to cars very different to the previous ones he experienced, still able to put in as good or better showings than rookies half his age.. To have this 40something driver regularly keeping up with and beating (by a second or more in the wet too) his previously highly regarded vastly younger team mate.. In all but name ousted in such an ignominious way, should have Brawn and Haug hanging their heads in shame.

Schumacher may be too big a man, too professional a person, to say this, but I'm neither. F*ck you Mercedes. It's just a shame you took and tarnished one of the best, squandering much of his time left to shine behind an F1 wheel.

:up:

Excellent points very well made.


#124 MarcelBrDirani

MarcelBrDirani
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:45

Damn, I wanted to be the first to say that.

Rumour was Schumacher was looking for a possible two year contract - I'll be amazed if Hamilton lasts longer than that in this directionless clustercoitus of a team, and he'll cost them more. Chances are he'll be less of a "team player" when it comes to putting on a good public face each time his DRS jams, wheels fall off, gearbox fails, fuel pump packs in, team sends him out too late to put a lap in..

Last year Schumacher matched and possibly even outraced Rosberg, but wild driving and car failures left him less than a second place in points behind Rosberg. This year Merc failed him in far more races than he has failed them, and at a time when the car was able to get decent points. Take out the car failures and team errors and once again the driver pairing would be very close on the points table, with Schumacher's Singapore and Barcelona moments probably leaving him marginally behind. Yet throughout this period of out qualifying, outracing Rosberg, there's never felt to be support from the team. Brawn has tended to be more complimentary to Rosberg, and Haug never says a bad word about anyone to the point where I question the sincerity of his praises when given.

So now we see a situation where a very fast, naturally gifted, but also petulant, stroppy, whining "great" is being shoved into a midfield car full of failed promise. A car which even with the great in season development leader Bob Bell has gone backwards. A car that has managed one win in three years, and even then failed to get the other car over the line to make that a one two. The dream team might have been too late to design this years car, but they're all there now yet the boss said they were holding off developments till they understood the tyres, and now says they should maybe have done the opposite. Where are the updates, the flaw fixes, from these dream team designers for the current car? Given next year the regulations stay pretty much the same, there's no reason not to be trying to improve what they have now. But then we saw a very lucky 5th for a corner cutting, attrition place gaining Merc driver last time out post update - A 5th that would have been closer to a 10th on pace if other teams and drivers hadn't had "one to forget".

If Schumacher wants to retire, then fair enough, one can hardly blame him after seeing his commitment, motivation, talent squandered and now ultimately disrespected. But this move from Mercedes looks more as though they're putting their lack of success on his shoulders, and announcing a lack of faith in him. To have one of the best of all time, who came back effectively as a rookie after three years out, returning to cars very different to the previous ones he experienced, still able to put in as good or better showings than rookies half his age.. To have this 40something driver regularly keeping up with and beating (by a second or more in the wet too) his previously highly regarded vastly younger team mate.. In all but name ousted in such an ignominious way, should have Brawn and Haug hanging their heads in shame.

Schumacher may be too big a man, too professional a person, to say this, but I'm neither. F*ck you Mercedes. It's just a shame you took and tarnished one of the best, squandering much of his time left to shine behind an F1 wheel.



Maybe Mercedes was tired of this ?

#125 MinT

MinT
  • Member

  • 2,040 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:45

Surprised Merc were prepared to shaft Schumi - but its F1 I guess

#126 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,412 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 11:54

He was sacrificed so that Brawn could stay.

#127 schubacca

schubacca
  • Member

  • 796 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:05

Mercedes' implication that MS's hesitation sounds like spin control to me.

The line of thinking here is IF MS were to commit earlier, there was a good CHANCE that Mercedes would offer him a contract.

I think that they still would not have done so, and would find another excuse to ditch MS.

I said it last night:

MS DID NOT FAIL MERCEDES....

MERCEDES QUIT ON MS

I think that LH is a great driver.

I think that Mercedes should have gone after Newey, rather than a piece of a puzzle that they already had covered....



#128 Urawa

Urawa
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:05

Expected after his body language at Singapore. Is this the end? I say it´s 50:50.
It might have been different if he just signed a new contract 6 months ago but obviously something pretended him to to so
I have just one wish: Never ever some kind of consultant, sporting director or whatever for Merc, never!

#129 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:09

Expected after his body language at Singapore. Is this the end? I say it´s 50:50.
It might have been different if he just signed a new contract 6 months ago but obviously something pretended him to to so
I have just one wish: Never ever some kind of consultant, sporting director or whatever for Merc, never!

This was probably Merc uncertainty for signing Concorde Agreement and staying in F1.

Edited by ivand911, 28 September 2012 - 12:09.


#130 schubacca

schubacca
  • Member

  • 796 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:12

This was probably Merc uncertainty for signing Concorde Agreement and staying in F1.


The sh!t that Mercedes is spewing is unbelievable.

Why would MS sign a contract early when Merc was hesitating signing the new Concord Agreement?

They times this crap to the second....

#131 Longtimefan

Longtimefan
  • Member

  • 2,980 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:14

I think Michael wasn't ready to leave yet, atleast I wasn't ready for Michael to leave yet.
F#@$K you Merc! :mad:


Agreed

Rot in hell Merc. I'm livid over how terrible Merc has handled this.
If I was Schumi I'd not even bother turning up at Suzuka, screw the team.



#132 maximilian

maximilian
  • Member

  • 399 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:15

If I was a team principal and had a choice between Schumacher and Hamilton, I'd take Hamilton.

The most realistic and sensible choice for Schumacher, if he wants to extend his career by another year, would be to take Massa's place at Ferrari. If the Vettel 2014 rumors are true, he can then bow out on a high note, driving for the team that made him famous as an official farewell year - and he wouldn't be doing any worse than Massa, either.

#133 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:16

Damn, I wanted to be the first to say that.

Rumour was Schumacher was looking for a possible two year contract - I'll be amazed if Hamilton lasts longer than that in this directionless clustercoitus of a team, and he'll cost them more. Chances are he'll be less of a "team player" when it comes to putting on a good public face each time his DRS jams, wheels fall off, gearbox fails, fuel pump packs in, team sends him out too late to put a lap in..

Last year Schumacher matched and possibly even outraced Rosberg, but wild driving and car failures left him less than a second place in points behind Rosberg. This year Merc failed him in far more races than he has failed them, and at a time when the car was able to get decent points. Take out the car failures and team errors and once again the driver pairing would be very close on the points table, with Schumacher's Singapore and Barcelona moments probably leaving him marginally behind. Yet throughout this period of out qualifying, outracing Rosberg, there's never felt to be support from the team. Brawn has tended to be more complimentary to Rosberg, and Haug never says a bad word about anyone to the point where I question the sincerity of his praises when given.

So now we see a situation where a very fast, naturally gifted, but also petulant, stroppy, whining "great" is being shoved into a midfield car full of failed promise. A car which even with the great in season development leader Bob Bell has gone backwards. A car that has managed one win in three years, and even then failed to get the other car over the line to make that a one two. The dream team might have been too late to design this years car, but they're all there now yet the boss said they were holding off developments till they understood the tyres, and now says they should maybe have done the opposite. Where are the updates, the flaw fixes, from these dream team designers for the current car? Given next year the regulations stay pretty much the same, there's no reason not to be trying to improve what they have now. But then we saw a very lucky 5th for a corner cutting, attrition place gaining Merc driver last time out post update - A 5th that would have been closer to a 10th on pace if other teams and drivers hadn't had "one to forget".

If Schumacher wants to retire, then fair enough, one can hardly blame him after seeing his commitment, motivation, talent squandered and now ultimately disrespected. But this move from Mercedes looks more as though they're putting their lack of success on his shoulders, and announcing a lack of faith in him. To have one of the best of all time, who came back effectively as a rookie after three years out, returning to cars very different to the previous ones he experienced, still able to put in as good or better showings than rookies half his age.. To have this 40something driver regularly keeping up with and beating (by a second or more in the wet too) his previously highly regarded vastly younger team mate.. In all but name ousted in such an ignominious way, should have Brawn and Haug hanging their heads in shame.

Schumacher may be too big a man, too professional a person, to say this, but I'm neither. F*ck you Mercedes. It's just a shame you took and tarnished one of the best, squandering much of his time left to shine behind an F1 wheel.

:up: :up: :up: :up: :up:

& the irony here is, they replace him with a driver who since his 1st race has had the best car on the grid, still only managed, i must add BARELY managed a Drivers' Title.
anyways, the only reason i supported Merc & NR was for MSC, a pity support if you may add, now they lost even that.

I'm not an anti-hamilton, infact my little cousin is a HUGE fan of his & he calls him 'Thala' (means boss in Tamil - Indian lang), now he is upset as well, coz hammy has gone to the 'proven' worst team on the grid.

Don't want to see MS to be related with Merc in any way, just cut all ties. work for FIA with Todt & get MGP every frikin penalty every frikin race.

can someone tell us how this whole thing going in German media? are they +ve or -ve

& for all the MS fans like me,
Posted Image

#134 MrPodium

MrPodium
  • Member

  • 573 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:16

Schumacher to Sauber, anyone? They now have a spare seat, and Peter Sauber himself was very enthusiastic about offering him a drive when asked just a few weeks ago.

#135 Talryyn

Talryyn
  • Member

  • 839 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:19

Upon the news, my wife wanted to sell our race tickets and not go. Please MS go to Sauber so I can go next year! Merc was never up to your standards, and lots of us only dreamed that they were in hopes that one day they would be. Failure was obvious for a long time from them, and this is a massive fail!


#136 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 7,045 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:20

Thats funny. It says almost the exact opposite to the stories Aditya referenced yesterday. Although I strongly disagreed with his interpretation of the Telegraph article, I have to trust that the article from an overseas publication did indeed include all the quotes he stated that Ross Brawn has lost faith in Michael and wants him out of the team.

So, two completely conflicting articles. Interesting.


Spacekid, although you have waved us goodbye here on the BB, the things I have stated in the last day were not that wrong. It was just that you did not like the message, so you doubted the messenger.

The things that Lauda was reported saying in the Austrian newspapers on Wednesday were right all along, as well as Lauda's interview on the Brazilian website.



Some of you guys are really living in a fantasy world. Don't you get the message? He isn't wanted any more! The game is over! Time to retire with dignity and accept it didn't work out.
It'll be interesting to see what spin MS puts on this "I didn't want my friend Lewis to be without a drive next year"


That's one of the parts of Michael's persona that I have never come to terms with: how MSC twists things, how an apology of his is never for the thing he did (e.g. apologizing to Rubens after Hungaroring 2010).

Fact is that for the second time Michael has overstayed his welcome and others finally decided over him: Ferrari 2006 and Mercedes 2012. That is telling.





The sequence of events was also interesting: Ross told a fan forum in Grove on July 3rd, that the Mercedes drivers for 2013 would be decided within six weeks. On July 5th Michael reacted in a moody way:"Before October no decision can be taken from my side. I am sorry - I can't help you."

On September 28th, decisions were taken by those in power, that means, Michael's agenda to drag the decision into October did not work out - things were taken out of his hands. Michael failed in the negotiations/power struggle behind the scenes, as he did already in 2006, when Luca di Montezemolo called the shots.

As Clatter points out, it will be interesting to hear Michael's side of the story.





About Sauber: Peter is well known to have a soft spot in his heart for aging F1 drivers (Alesi, HHF, Villeneuve) yet I do not think that Sauber's budget will allow him to pay for all the shunted cars from Michael. Michael's eye sight and reaction times ain't gonna improve in the next year, so I don't think so. Sauber is a team on the upward path, and Monisha Kaltenbrunner will also have a word in this.

However, it is encouraging that Willi Webber was talking to Sauber last weekend.




Another thing that caught my attention in the last days is that Schumacher, who was touted to become Mercedes' "ambassador" wasn't mentioned at all in such a role during the last two months. On the contrary, Niki Lauda was suddenly reported to be the man for a senior position in the Mercedes team in 2013.

We'll see how that one turns out, but by the looks of it Michael has lost on all ends.




How "shit" is the team really? (forgive this word, I am just embarrassed for many posters here who call this team with bad names and blame everything on the team)

We will see in 2013 and 2014. Maybe the Brackley team is not that bad after all (Brackley has won it's last WDC in 2009, Schumacher in 2004....), and maybe, just maybe Lewis will be the quintessential factor missing so far.

Also, Lewis' coming to Mercedes will give us a good opportunity to gauge Rosberg's capabilities.

Edited by aditya-now, 28 September 2012 - 12:27.


#137 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:25

We'll see how that one turns out, but by the looks of it Michael has lost on all ends.


How "shit" is the team really? (forgive this word, I am just embarrassed for many posters here who call this team with bad names and blame everything on the team)

We will see in 2013 and 2014. Maybe the Brackley team is not that bad after all (Brackley has won it's last WDC in 2009, Schumacher in 2004....), and maybe, just maybe Lewis will be the quintessential factor missing so far.

Also, Lewis' coming to Mercedes will give us a good opportunity to gauge Rosberg's capabilities.

How I want to be lost like him. :lol:
They were bad when it matters the most. They could be good next year or after 20 years, who cares? Will be good to look at Lewis if he have the year MS have in 2012.


#138 jav

jav
  • Member

  • 197 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:28

Mercedes is cementing thier demise and stature. They have been unable to produce a top car, have been abysmal at development in season, and have used up any and all excuses in their 1st 3 seasons. Now they used their last one- blame the driver. Except Hamilton has too much to lose to let his stock be questioned. If they don't provide him a great car from the start, and the development pace continues to suck, it will only be a matter of time before he lets the world know just how bad this organization is. Where Michael was always the concliatory states man- Lewis will use his his prior success and this teams continued failure to emphasize he's not the problem... and conversly- that Mercedes is.

I hope Michael finds a seat capable of finishing ahead of Mercedes. Ferrari, Sauber, Williams of FI would be just fine with me.

#139 Talryyn

Talryyn
  • Member

  • 839 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:28

How I want to be lost like him. :lol:
They were bad when it matters the most. They could be good next year or after 20 years, who cares? Will be good to look at Lewis if he have the year MS have in 2012.


If you had given Lewis 2012 at Merc, and the same failures happened it would be something out of a soap opera. I could see Nicole yelling at Ross to put the wheels on himself during pit stops.

Lewis does not share the blame, at least I have rarely seen that, he likes to show where the blame is (right or wrong on his part).

Edited by Talryyn, 28 September 2012 - 12:29.


Advertisement

#140 sanW10

sanW10
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: August 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:33

He was sacrificed so that Brawn could stay.

this is true too. (i had posted earlier, but moderator deleted 2-3pages)
Ross was good only under a good leader - Todt.
he is a failed team boss. if you followed him & MGP from 2009, you can see the trend.
Good car - only in initial phase of the season. have no developing & diagnosing skill.
look at the tyre problem, it has been there since BGP01, in that car they couldnt get the heat into the tyres, now they got too much heat into them in merc. :rotfl:

in 2009, RBR, McLaren & Ferrari caught them up, Ross did the damage limitation & won title. granted they didnt have much cash back then, but today do Sauber, Williams have the budget like MGP or the cash stripped Force India.

Ross Brawn lost my & millions of MS fans respect.
i dont have the heart to wish him or his noob squad team any luck.

#141 DutchCruijff

DutchCruijff
  • Member

  • 933 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:35

"would have been able to sign if he had wanted to earlier in the summer".

I don't see why people are hating on Mercedes after the publishing of that quote. He had the chance to sign on, he didn't take it up, understandably of course, a better option came along in Hamilton, a deal which most definitely had to have been closed out soon, thus Schumster lost out due to his Oct. deadline and due to Merc looking out for their own best interests.

#142 aliasj

aliasj
  • Member

  • 150 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:37

C'mon. Maybe people give MSC less credit than he deserves. Maybe he planned all this beforehand.

From MSC's point-of-view. I think all this started when MSC got his pole in Monaco. He was able to affirm (to himself) that he still had the speed, (not as much as Aryton Senna as in his first career, but still good enough for today's F1). So he wanted to see how Mercedes developed further. There was Canada, high-expectations, failure. There was Valencia and Britain, still not fast enough. Mercedes kept failing to build a fast enough, consistent enough car. He looks at the Ferraris, Red Bulls, McLarens and even Williams, and see how they always are at the sharp end. So MSC delays, he isn't young anymore, he doesn't have another 5 years to wait for Mercedes. But on the other hand he's already committed to them, and can't quit too.

So, this way he's free. He's still fast, and he sees that nowadays even Saubers, Williams and Force Indias are faster than Mercedes. He now has plenty of time to make his decision and he's got money. See, Mercedes blew their PR, now MSC becomes a victim rather than a deserter.

Edited by aliasj, 28 September 2012 - 12:38.


#143 D.M.N.

D.M.N.
  • RC Forum Host

  • 7,206 posts
  • Joined: May 08

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:39

The only two realistic options for Schumacher are Sauber or retirement. I can't see him going elsewhere (Massa appears to be staying at Ferrari), nor do I really want him ending his career elsewhere. Sauber would be nice to bring it full circle, although if he does sign anywhere, I do wonder if it will be made clear beforehand that 2013 will be his final swansong?

#144 schubacca

schubacca
  • Member

  • 796 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:41

Brawn's decision is puzzling and insulting for MS and NR.

He is essentially saying that LH was the last piece of the puzzle.

So you have:

A solid team principal - Check

Resources - Check

Drivers - Not Checked? Wait a minute? NR is the future, but is he not good enough? MS is supposedly past it..... But is driving as good, if not better, than NR?

This is the kicker here.....

Car Design
- Check??????? The car is shit. All the updates are failures. The car is hard on tyres, the aero is poor, the Force India regularly is quicker than the Merc.....

================================================

So Brawn throwing MS under the bus is laughable.

LH is not gonna make a faster car.

Adrian Newey is.....

A solid technical team is what was needed.

An "past it" Mansell won a WDC in a top car.

An "average" Damon Hill won a WDC in a top car.

Pathetic behaviour from Brawn and Merc....

Typically corporate..



#145 Urawa

Urawa
  • Member

  • 1,135 posts
  • Joined: August 08

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:42

"would have been able to sign if he had wanted to earlier in the summer".

I don't see why people are hating on Mercedes after the publishing of that quote. He had the chance to sign on, he didn't take it up, understandably of course, a better option came along in Hamilton, a deal which most definitely had to have been closed out soon, thus Schumster lost out due to his Oct. deadline and due to Merc looking out for their own best interests.


True, there is no reason to be angry with Mercedes except for their poor showing and their incompetence to produce 2 fast and realiable cars.



#146 schumimercamg

schumimercamg
  • Member

  • 315 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:43

:cry: :cry: :cry:

#147 schubacca

schubacca
  • Member

  • 796 posts
  • Joined: May 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:44

"would have been able to sign if he had wanted to earlier in the summer".

I don't see why people are hating on Mercedes after the publishing of that quote. He had the chance to sign on, he didn't take it up, understandably of course, a better option came along in Hamilton, a deal which most definitely had to have been closed out soon, thus Schumster lost out due to his Oct. deadline and due to Merc looking out for their own best interests.


I suspect that Mercedes would have prolonged negotiations themselves in order to go after LH and ditch MS.

Getting LH is not the primary issue for me.

The way that they intimate that MS's inaction led them to go after LH is a big issue for me.

They wanted LH period..... Not because MS did not make up his mind....

#148 ivand911

ivand911
  • Member

  • 8,152 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:44

"would have been able to sign if he had wanted to earlier in the summer".

I don't see why people are hating on Mercedes after the publishing of that quote. He had the chance to sign on, he didn't take it up, understandably of course, a better option came along in Hamilton, a deal which most definitely had to have been closed out soon, thus Schumster lost out due to his Oct. deadline and due to Merc looking out for their own best interests.

I think she just want to show the things as MS was in control? I doubt it. They signed CA this week.
I don't think MS decided to stay in F1 today? If he wanted out he can say it too.

Edited by ivand911, 28 September 2012 - 12:50.


#149 SenorSjon

SenorSjon
  • Member

  • 1,412 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:51

"would have been able to sign if he had wanted to earlier in the summer".

I don't see why people are hating on Mercedes after the publishing of that quote. He had the chance to sign on, he didn't take it up, understandably of course, a better option came along in Hamilton, a deal which most definitely had to have been closed out soon, thus Schumster lost out due to his Oct. deadline and due to Merc looking out for their own best interests.


It was hanging in to balance if Mercedes would actually be on the grid next year. There were stories that it would continue aa AMG with the same kinda support as McLaren. So why would MS sign when they were slowing down operations? They forgot that small issue when spinning that MS took his time to decide.

#150 MarcelBrDirani

MarcelBrDirani
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: May 12

Posted 28 September 2012 - 12:51

Spacekid, although you have waved us goodbye here on the BB, the things I have stated in the last day were not that wrong. It was just that you did not like the message, so you doubted the messenger.

The things that Lauda was reported saying in the Austrian newspapers on Wednesday were right all along, as well as Lauda's interview on the Brazilian website.





That's one of the parts of Michael's persona that I have never come to terms with: how MSC twists things, how an apology of his is never for the thing he did (e.g. apologizing to Rubens after Hungaroring 2010).

Fact is that for the second time Michael has overstayed his welcome and others finally decided over him: Ferrari 2006 and Mercedes 2012. That is telling.





The sequence of events was also interesting: Ross told a fan forum in Grove on July 3rd, that the Mercedes drivers for 2013 would be decided within six weeks. On July 5th Michael reacted in a moody way:"Before October no decision can be taken from my side. I am sorry - I can't help you."

On September 28th, decisions were taken by those in power, that means, Michael's agenda to drag the decision into October did not work out - things were taken out of his hands. Michael failed in the negotiations/power struggle behind the scenes, as he did already in 2006, when Luca di Montezemolo called the shots.

As Clatter points out, it will be interesting to hear Michael's side of the story.





About Sauber: Peter is well known to have a soft spot in his heart for aging F1 drivers (Alesi, HHF, Villeneuve) yet I do not think that Sauber's budget will allow him to pay for all the shunted cars from Michael. Michael's eye sight and reaction times ain't gonna improve in the next year, so I don't think so. Sauber is a team on the upward path, and Monisha Kaltenbrunner will also have a word in this.

However, it is encouraging that Willi Webber was talking to Sauber last weekend.




Another thing that caught my attention in the last days is that Schumacher, who was touted to become Mercedes' "ambassador" wasn't mentioned at all in such a role during the last two months. On the contrary, Niki Lauda was suddenly reported to be the man for a senior position in the Mercedes team in 2013.

We'll see how that one turns out, but by the looks of it Michael has lost on all ends.




How "shit" is the team really? (forgive this word, I am just embarrassed for many posters here who call this team with bad names and blame everything on the team)

We will see in 2013 and 2014. Maybe the Brackley team is not that bad after all (Brackley has won it's last WDC in 2009, Schumacher in 2004....), and maybe, just maybe Lewis will be the quintessential factor missing so far.

Also, Lewis' coming to Mercedes will give us a good opportunity to gauge Rosberg's capabilities.




:up: :up:

But we all know that everyone who does not think MS is as great as his fans think is an idiot, senile. The press is British, the writter is stupid, the magazine is laughfable, the former driver is a bitter sad man, and you, you are a hater, aditya! :lol:

Problem is nor Michael neither his fans have no idea what is S*** car. A car no one can win a race no matter what happens. A car like Senna´s Toleman (well he could win, but he was Senna), Mika´s Lotus, Alonso´s Minardi, Kimi´s Sauber.

Neither Michael nor his fans knows what is driving without number one status and a good teamate.

In a very brave move, MS accepted to face Nico (underrated driver) with no privileges. A car able to win races but not the best. That was a shock for them as they expected Michael to trash the field when he came back. Sudeenly MS´s fans stated to look closer to races and analyse what really happened to Michael and the other drivers. Lap by lap. Sudenlly they noticed that an eventual problem Michael had in practice could represent an awfull race (remember Rubens and his Ferrari?). Conspiracy theories, the evil Mercedes and even Ross (the Boss) B is not god anymore!!!!

For the first time in my life i am on Michael´s side. I don´t think the way Mercedes handle the situation was nice at all.

I really beleive Michael will drive for Peter S next year. And most likelly, if the car is fast enough, will win one or two races and after that, retire. In this case, we will be back to "these are the facts, nothing else matters" mode.

Edited by MarcelBrDirani, 28 September 2012 - 12:54.