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Michael Schumacher - Part III


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#1701 Urawa

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:25

wtf? another stop?

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#1702 Lelouch

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:26

Unlucky yet again... :(

#1703 ivand911

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:27

How lucky!!!!!

#1704 dav115

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:27

16 cars with 4 tires went through that debris...guess whose tyre for a puncture

#1705 Diablobb81

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:52

Unlucky.

#1706 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 14:53

Hard to believe that not even today, with so many retirements, this ridiculously absurd car from MGP couldn't be dragged into the points.

#1707 Fildischum

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:00

oh boy! what a luck!

#1708 Wade

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:11

Yup, in other news......water is wet.

#1709 MSCDesign

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:33

I saw the puncture even before the pitstop. As soon as I saw Michael in the background I saw rear movement on the car, and it was clear to me that it's a puncture.

#1710 DS27

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 15:50

Thank God it's nearly all over. All there is at the moment is bad luck in a sh*t car

How the hell does MS motivate himself for a GP weekend driving for this BOC

Edited by DS27, 04 November 2012 - 15:55.


#1711 rallye3

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 18:21

This quote from Norbert Haug -

"Michael was in seventh position when he picked up debris, and subsequently a puncture, during the safety car period which dropped him back to 11th place after his additional pit stop which is where he finished.”

I thought he came back out in 14th position after the puncture, but Haug was there and I only watched it on TV.


#1712 Diablobb81

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:09

NH must have watched a different race. Maybe he was too busy with the Merc engine blowing.

#1713 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:12

4 races in a row now without points.

Poor car

Poor design team

Poor strategy

Poor everything all around.

What an awful end to such a glorious career....reminds me so much of Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali's respective careers

:(

#1714 Tardis40

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:19

The difference being that Michael can still drive with anyone. The car has gone from bad to worse, and the team has gone from mediocre to incompetent.


#1715 Poep

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:19

4 races in a row now without points.

Poor car

Poor design team

Poor strategy

Poor everything all around.

What an awful end to such a glorious career....reminds me so much of Mike Tyson or Muhammad Ali's respective careers

:(

You can't compare. Their misrable end was due to their own physical abilities declining. MS is still capable of winning, it's just that Merc is a piece of crap.

I am looking forward to MS driving at ROC or maybe some kart races (like the one organized by Massa): equal cars, equal opportunities :up:

#1716 kyriakos75

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:52

This quote from Norbert Haug -

"Michael was in seventh position when he picked up debris, and subsequently a puncture, during the safety car period which dropped him back to 11th place after his additional pit stop which is where he finished.”

I thought he came back out in 14th position after the puncture, but Haug was there and I only watched it on TV.


Actually he was 16th after the pit stop, only PDLR was behind him.


#1717 rallye3

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 19:58

Actually he was 16th after the pit stop, only PDLR was behind him.


So clearly Haug was not that interested in the proceedings.

#1718 Tardis40

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 20:16

Judging by appearances, Norbert is interested in his next sausage sandwich.


#1719 emburmak

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 21:58

Never in my wildest or weidest dreams would I have imagined this sort of season 4 MS. The car is so bad, the team now so mediorce that if this sad trend continues, one can only pray 4 LH next season. :confused:

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#1720 MSCDesign

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 22:56

Never in my wildest or weidest dreams would I have imagined this sort of season 4 MS. The car is so bad, the team now so mediorce that if this sad trend continues, one can only pray 4 LH next season. :confused:


Lewis Hamilton will win at least one race next year. Mark my words.

Team will have 50 millions bigger budget, Lauda already fired some of the employees at the factory. Lauda will be a link between the Brackley and Stuttgart, which means everyting will be reported to Mercedes board and will be under control. The 2013 car and 2014 cars are both already in process. The team had a big restruction in 2012 season, and everything is settled now and prepared for 2013.
Also no more Loic Bigois who was screwing Mercedes for last 3 years! He actally screwed every team in which he came! Mike Elliott is gonna do the job properly now!

#1721 Kucki

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:08

Promises promises, is all that ever came from that team. Fact is, shortly after the spring of 2009 this team started a decline, and they never really recovered. No matter what personal, how much money you throw at it, sometime some things just dont work. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Lotus. These are the places to be. Mercedes just going for there last desperate attempt in 2013, 2014. This team is going backwards since even in there Championship season. Poor Hamilton is going to have a Villeneuve at BAR experience. Now Lauda should fix it lol. Remember his great input at Jaguar. German speaking F1 fans know Lauda is a good talker, but often only talks into whichever direction the wind blows at the time. Mercedes GP is over and the signs couldnt be any clearer with there last desperation attempts.

Edited by Kucki, 04 November 2012 - 23:13.


#1722 engel

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:15

I think you are exaggerating a bit. F1 right now is so close that making a design mistake is not recoverable, that's the end of it. Mercedes made a design mistake, they have admitted as much. Doesn't mean they will make another one next year

#1723 exmayol

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:30

7th or 11th... does not matter. There is serious deficit of speed and apparently another run of bad luck. One mishap after another for several races in a row... I agree qualifying mid field does not help either. Onto US GP.

#1724 exmayol

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Posted 04 November 2012 - 23:33

Promises promises, is all that ever came from that team. Fact is, shortly after the spring of 2009 this team started a decline, and they never really recovered. No matter what personal, how much money you throw at it, sometime some things just dont work.


Well besides promises the start of this year was pretty promising in terms of how well car parformed. NR scored those high finishes on merit and so would have MSC without tech failures.

#1725 MSCDesign

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:39

Promises promises, is all that ever came from that team. Fact is, shortly after the spring of 2009 this team started a decline, and they never really recovered. No matter what personal, how much money you throw at it, sometime some things just dont work. Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Lotus. These are the places to be. Mercedes just going for there last desperate attempt in 2013, 2014. This team is going backwards since even in there Championship season. Poor Hamilton is going to have a Villeneuve at BAR experience. Now Lauda should fix it lol. Remember his great input at Jaguar. German speaking F1 fans know Lauda is a good talker, but often only talks into whichever direction the wind blows at the time. Mercedes GP is over and the signs couldnt be any clearer with there last desperation attempts.


Be sure to come back to this thread after the first podium/win in 2013. I wonder if all of you guys will take your words back..

#1726 MSCDesign

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 00:40

I think you are exaggerating a bit. F1 right now is so close that making a design mistake is not recoverable, that's the end of it. Mercedes made a design mistake, they have admitted as much. Doesn't mean they will make another one next year


Mike Elliot will hit it on the spot;)

#1727 baddog

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 05:08

Dont think anyone could have done better in that car this time.

#1728 Sakae

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 08:29

I think you are exaggerating a bit. F1 right now is so close that making a design mistake is not recoverable, that's the end of it. Mercedes made a design mistake, they have admitted as much. Doesn't mean they will make another one next year

Isn't this of enough reason to reactivate 10000 km pre-season testing on in-season tires then? All expensive simulation software and training rigs on its own hasn't really prevented disastrous season Mercedes has, yet surely chances are, that correct identification of design issues on the track in Jan could potentially offset current results. Having said that, I am aware of weak point in my reasoning, and that is, the team still needs (a) someone who can identify correctly roots cause, and (b) knows how to correct it quickly in optimized manner. I am merely not sure that computers alone are the miracle pill.

Edited by Sakae, 05 November 2012 - 08:30.


#1729 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 10:03

Isn't this of enough reason to reactivate 10000 km pre-season testing on in-season tires then? All expensive simulation software and training rigs on its own hasn't really prevented disastrous season Mercedes has, yet surely chances are, that correct identification of design issues on the track in Jan could potentially offset current results. Having said that, I am aware of weak point in my reasoning, and that is, the team still needs (a) someone who can identify correctly roots cause, and (b) knows how to correct it quickly in optimized manner. I am merely not sure that computers alone are the miracle pill.


Indeed. Look at Virgin/Maurussia - they are totally dependent on CFD and look where they are - nowhere.

#1730 Math89

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:19

The Rosberg - Karthikeyan incident... No penalty?

It looked pretty much the same as the Schumacher - Senna/Vergne incident... :s



#1731 ivand911

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 11:31

Is this Michael thread or not? :confused:
And nobody care what car the team/Lewis will have next year. After the end of the last race, many MS fans will forget about that team. Me included.

Edited by ivand911, 05 November 2012 - 11:33.


#1732 rallye3

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 12:52

The Rosberg - Karthikeyan incident... No penalty?

It looked pretty much the same as the Schumacher - Senna/Vergne incident... :s


It probably did not deserve a penalty, but you can bet your life Schumacher would have got one.

#1733 iakhtar

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 13:12

It probably did not deserve a penalty, but you can bet your life Schumacher would have got one.


No doubt about that

#1734 george1981

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 13:35

The Rosberg - Karthikeyan incident... No penalty?

It looked pretty much the same as the Schumacher - Senna/Vergne incident... :s


It wasn't that similar to the two incidents Michael has had this year. The HRT had a technical issue which caused it to slow whereas Senna/Vergne were at their racing speed, which happened to be slower than Michael's.
I think Nico could have avoided the HRT had he been more alert but he didn't deserve a penalty for not avoiding him.

#1735 ali_M

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 13:48

It wasn't that similar to the two incidents Michael has had this year. The HRT had a technical issue which caused it to slow whereas Senna/Vergne were at their racing speed, which happened to be slower than Michael's.
I think Nico could have avoided the HRT had he been more alert but he didn't deserve a penalty for not avoiding him.


I don't agree. The drivers on the grid depend GREATLY on how the other drivers behave to avoid accidents. Those cars slow so quickly that if it's unexpected, human reaction cannot always make up for the deficit quickly enough thus avoiding a collision. We should be happy that they both came out of it OK and leave it at that. This incident was very different to Michael's two incidents in Singapore.

#1736 sanW10

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 13:50

Is this Michael thread or not? :confused:
And nobody care what car the team/Lewis will have next year. After the end of the last race, many MS fans will forget about that team. Me included.

wasn't that the original plan of Brawn?
who would have even cared about this team if it wasn't for MS driving it. Now people will care for this team's progress because of LH.
Rosberg, to be honest was in the spotlight thanks to MS, & only his fans care how many time he finished in front of MS, now again he & the team will be in spotlight thanks to LH. :p

I dont have any idea of how the car will be next year, coz there are just too many people inside the team now, it'll probably not work due to ego's :p
But I dont care anymore, for one reason - the way they handled MS & forced the retirement.
Shows how much they care for legacy, I mean they pro claimed themselves as Silver Arrow & didnt even put half the effort to be THE Silver Arrow.

Anyways, after Brazil GP, i'll root for Kimi & Vettel.
these are the only two guys who talk in track, others just keep whining.

#1737 Buttoneer

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 13:54

Is this Michael thread or not? :confused:


Yes it is.

Please could it get back on topic. Race incidents for the post race thread (or their own, if worth discussing), Schumacher v Rosberg in the versus thread, the car in the car thread.

Thank you.

#1738 aditya-now

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 23:38

Dont think anyone could have done better in that car this time.


I am sure that Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton or Raikkonen (at least) could have done better in the Merc this time.

Be sure to come back to this thread after the first podium/win in 2013. I wonder if all of you guys will take your words back..


MSCDesign - that won't be in the Michael Schumacher thread then. It will be in the Lewis Hamilton or Mercedes F1 2013 thread - and the people you see in this thread will make a rare appearance next year.

#1739 sharo

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 23:49

I am sure that Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton or Raikkonen (at least) could have done better in the Merc this time.



MSCDesign - that won't be in the Michael Schumacher thread then. It will be in the Lewis Hamilton or Mercedes F1 2013 thread - and the people you see in this thread will make a rare appearance next year.

Oh yeah :wave:

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#1740 Buttoneer

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 00:14

Schumie & Benetton discussion split here; http://forums.autosp...howtopic=177006

It's a topic with the potential to cause thread closure, so you won't want that here.

#1741 MSCDesign

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 00:58

I am sure that Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton or Raikkonen (at least) could have done better in the Merc this time.



MSCDesign - that won't be in the Michael Schumacher thread then. It will be in the Lewis Hamilton or Mercedes F1 2013 thread - and the people you see in this thread will make a rare appearance next year.


:rotfl:

I am sure Michael Schumacher could have win more races this year in Lotus than Raikkonen!

Secondly. Your other part I know what you're pointing at, but the point of my post was about how Mercedes will be able to get better performance next year, because : 1) More resources 2) All restruction settled down and all men in right positions. Aldo Costa, Mike Elliot the biggest income. The team is built now, everything is ready.

#1742 weareracing

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 01:13

MSCDesign, I disagree.
Kimi has raced MUCH BETTER than Michael.
One comeback has been successful,the other......................................Less so.

#1743 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:28

MSCDesign, I disagree.
Kimi has raced MUCH BETTER than Michael.
One comeback has been successful,the other......................................Less so.


Having a good team, car and group of engineers around you helps also.



#1744 ali_M

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 10:46

MSCDesign, I disagree.
Kimi has raced MUCH BETTER than Michael.
One comeback has been successful,the other......................................Less so.


Kimi has continued to do what he did before he left, i.e., race cleanly and stay out of trouble. Just this alone, for me, makes his performance for this year, better than Schumi's performances over the last 3 yrs. Kimi has driven very consistently without any moments. So yes, it's difficult for me to admit, but I agree with the statement, though I'd not put the MUCH there. Just better, since Kimi's racing has been incident free. No punctures, no collisions etc. It takes a high level of concentration and intelligence in approach to be like that race after race after race after race.

We know that Michael has always had incidents surrounding his driving which is expected since his approach to racing is very different from Kimi's. However, in these last three years, he hasn't really had that phenomenal pace to make up for it. Furthermore, his incident rate went up. I felt sad, not annoyed, with the incidents in Barcelona and Singapore, among others. I can't help but be convinced those incidents would not have happened if they involved a much younger Michael Schumacher. His age really stood out in those moments. That's what aging does, take you off the bleeding edge of performance and leads to moments.

Ah well.... That's the man for you. I applaud his risk and efforts. I'm sure he will learn a LOT from it. Good luck to him.

#1745 ivand911

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:02

Kimi in W03 will not be better. He and MS drive in different parts of the column now. This is why Kimi has cleaner races. If he get involved more with lower midfield , the picture would be different. Kimi has race pace in his car most of the races, where W03 was good in 2 races maybe.
Last race show that even Vettel make mistake(twice), Nico too. And others.
You can't compare drivers in different cars. Kimi return in good moment for Lotus, he was lucky not to drive last year Lotus car. When MS has good car this year , he deliver.
Will be comeback successful depend mainly from the car, not from the driver.

Edited by ivand911, 06 November 2012 - 11:11.


#1746 Buttoneer

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 11:28

Not a Kimi thread - no more about him, thank you.

#1747 BetaVersion

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 19:22

It probably did not deserve a penalty, but you can bet your life Schumacher would have got one.


Nico was much more clumpsy and idiotic. MSC would've got race ban for sure

Effin stewards ):

#1748 MSCDesign

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 15:36

Just 3 weeks left guys.

#1749 Sakae

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 15:57

Just 3 weeks left guys.

I am not convinced that he has decided already what he will do after this is over, other than taking Christmas easy with family, some vacation, and than maybe some quiet talk with Corinna, his wife. I am hoping that he will choose his next path wisely, and certainly wish him well.


__________

This might be OT, but considering that he said of tax laws in Switzerland should change, he might relocate. He likes south of US, and I wonder then if one day he will see him on a ranch in Texas.

Edited by Sakae, 08 November 2012 - 16:02.


#1750 MSCDesign

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:14

I am not convinced that he has decided already what he will do after this is over,


Well he won't race in F1, that's what I meant. It's over for us, so it is just 3 weeks/2 races left.