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Michael Schumacher - Part III


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#2701 Ragingjamaican

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 17:12

I think Schumacher probably could have won, he wasn't far behind, and when Schumacher stopped Rosberg ran wide into Turn 4 and lost a bit of time.

Whether Mercedes would have played it safe when both where close who knows.

But I think Schumacher did have the pace to win the race.

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#2702 jjcale

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Posted 22 December 2012 - 21:26

http://translate.goo...n_12122205.html

Sadly, we´ll never know.



I actually found this one more interesting:

Clear: "Was surprised how vulnerable can be 'Schumi'"

http://translate.goo...n_12122205.html

#2703 George Costanza

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 01:05

I don't think it would have been possible. Nico was faster that weekend and China is not Michael favorite track. It's a shame their car were only capable on a track Michael really didn't like in the past. Imagine a strong Mercedes at Suzuka or Spa - I would have no doubt. Michael would have shown some magic. What I do not like is this undertone of Clear saying Michael was not the fastest driver of the last 20 years only because he worked with Hakkinen. Hakkinen was perhaps faster on one lap (knowing his performance against Senna) but can't see him above Michael in race pace. He was not able to push his car around the track in qualifying trim - that's for sure. The McLaren was superior and Michael took the WDC to the last race in 1998.



I agree, Mika was indeed faster one one lap, which I believed that. But race pace, Michael was on anoher world in his prime compared to everyone else, even in 2012, the race craft was there.

Edited by George Costanza, 23 December 2012 - 01:05.


#2704 Jejking

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Posted 23 December 2012 - 12:45

Hm I´m not sure, they were within a tenth all weekend and it was just Q3 where Rosberg suddenly found a huge amount of time out of nowhere.
Clear seem to think Nico just got an amazing set of tyres.
tbh I don´t think his intention was to criticize Michael. His strenght were certainly the sundays and Clear is only talking about one-lap pace.

Afaik Rosberg had no wind on his run where other pole contenders like Schumacher had to fight the wind pretty hard, that was what I heard which explains a big part of the .5/.6 seconds difference between Rosberg and the rest.

About Hakkinen vs Schumacher: Martin Brundle analyzed them as well and he has the right to speak about it since he was team mates of both. He also thinks Hakkinen is SLIGHTLY faster (not a lot but slightly) over a lap where Schumacher has the edge over 300 km.

#2705 Fildischum

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 04:51

"Michael was, for me, a war machine in the race because he was in condition to do 60 laps like qualifying." this is a qoute from luca d.

This confirms michael is the fastest on a full race distance.

#2706 mkoscevic

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Posted 24 December 2012 - 10:10

kvarbanov, thanks for the picture.

#2707 MSCDesign

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Posted 25 December 2012 - 18:20

And here's something from me.

Posted Image

Design made for Sports Memories' Danke Michael book. It will be added in the e-version book within few days(probably tomorrow).
Find more about the book here: http://www.sportingm...ting-memories-/

The A4 design is printable and for those won't buy the book but would like to get the design to print, it will also be available to purchase seperately for just 1£!

Merry Christmas everyone! :)

#2708 Sakae

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Posted 27 December 2012 - 06:00

Collage, impressive as it is, takes a step further than I thought would be possible, but nonetheless very telling and appropriate. Nicely done.

#2709 Jejking

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:54

http://formula-one.s...ael-schumacher/



#2710 AJFIN

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 17:58

Qualifying lap of the year/F1 Racing: Mark Webber, Monaco.

"I thought Mark's lap at Monaco was beautiful to watch. Michael Schumacher took the glory that day, but for my money it was Webber at Monaco who touched perfection. Beyond that, I have a liking for drivers who excel on circuits surrounded by walls and barriers - and who struggle when there are acres of run-off areas in which to play. Mark is one of those.


Thoughts?

#2711 Szoelloe

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 18:29

Qualifying lap of the year/F1 Racing: Mark Webber, Monaco.



Thoughts?


I suggest somebody post both onboard laps first, and we brainstorm after that. Before saying that, MS' onboard mysteriously vanished because of bernie, (somebody do him for that), Anybody help please?

Edited by Szoelloe, 28 December 2012 - 18:30.


#2712 jj2728

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Posted 28 December 2012 - 22:57

I suggest somebody post both onboard laps first, and we brainstorm after that. Before saying that, MS' onboard mysteriously vanished because of bernie, (somebody do him for that), Anybody help please?




#2713 George Costanza

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 02:19

Qualifying lap of the year/F1 Racing: Mark Webber, Monaco.



Thoughts?


He wouldn't be saying that had Schu did not get the grid drop.

That lap around Monaco was vintage Michael.

#2714 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:09



Thx JJ!

#2715 baddog

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 10:11

Not sure how someone could watch that and conclude that Mark's was a better lap.. to each his own I guess.

#2716 ivand911

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 13:36

Watching the three BBC clowns doing 2012 review.

#2717 boldhakka

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:25


:up:

Both great laps.

#2718 goldenboy

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:32

It's a strange comment to make but after watching it a few times they are quite different ways of attacking the lap. However schumi was quicker so..... ?

besides, michael taking his hand off at that point wins it for me.

Edited by goldenboy, 29 December 2012 - 14:33.


#2719 Juan Kerr

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:38

He wouldn't be saying that had Schu did not get the grid drop.

That lap around Monaco was vintage Michael.

It's just a dig at Schumacher again probably.

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#2720 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 14:57

MS was adjusting break balance several times through the lap. MW wasn't. Do they have a different way to do that, or it was simply not needed? Both were pretty fine laps. I would find it very hard to make a decision on ranking purely on visual. We do know though that MS was a tad faster.

#2721 Juan Kerr

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 15:34

MS was adjusting break balance several times through the lap. MW wasn't. Do they have a different way to do that, or it was simply not needed? Both were pretty fine laps. I would find it very hard to make a decision on ranking purely on visual. We do know though that MS was a tad faster.

Schumacher likes to alter the braking behavior into different types of corners and from different entry speeds. He's used to doing it and makes it work, most normal drivers can't be dealing with the extra hassle.

#2722 Urawa

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Posted 29 December 2012 - 22:39

Q&A with Ross about Michael

#2723 ivand911

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 09:42

Q&A with Ross about Michael

Interesting interview, I think it confirm some of the stuff we discussed here. Tests, simulator. Bad car being the limiting factor.
Also from Clear interview, he confirm my believe that Michael could have won China in second and third part of the race. Some people laughed here at me, saying that. We didn't know that Nico just get lucky with very good first set of tyre(Q and first stint).


#2724 Sakae

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:04

Interestingly enough, Ross is also stating what some of us, I was one of them, suggested several times during his comeback, that some of his accidents could be linked to quality of drivers around him in midfield. Several posters were snarling at that suggestion, but any open minded person would understand that it takes two to tango, and simulator is not enough to teach you how to race wheel to wheel, which is a disadvantage to newcomers.

_____________

One memorable, and most telling comments which I do remember came from Petrov, who declared to the whole world: I don't brake for Schumacher...

Edited by Sakae, 30 December 2012 - 10:08.


#2725 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:17

A 43 year old driving one handed at 150mph inches away from a barrier and setting the fastest time around the track that demands total skill and commitment. Yup....lap of the year for me.

Grazie Michael.

#2726 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 10:22

Q&A with Ross about Michael


It's always good to see or hear RB's thoughts on MS, nobody knows him better, and he is in the position to benchmark his two careers. Saying that, there's hardly anything new or something we didn't already know there. I sincerely wish he could have found the motivation to go on another two-three years, but if you think about it, that would be asking too much. It's a pity the Wxx cars turned out to be dogs. It would have been huge fun seeing him in a podium capable, competitive car. He still had it in him.


#2727 Clatter

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 12:49

Schumacher likes to alter the braking behavior into different types of corners and from different entry speeds. He's used to doing it and makes it work, most normal drivers can't be dealing with the extra hassle.


Plenty of other drivers do the same, and if they don't it's because it's not necessary. Not because they lack the skill or can't be bothered.

#2728 ali_M

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 14:06

It's always good to see or hear RB's thoughts on MS, nobody knows him better, and he is in the position to benchmark his two careers. Saying that, there's hardly anything new or something we didn't already know there. I sincerely wish he could have found the motivation to go on another two-three years, but if you think about it, that would be asking too much. It's a pity the Wxx cars turned out to be dogs. It would have been huge fun seeing him in a podium capable, competitive car. He still had it in him.


For a second I thought Rubens Barichello when I saw the RB. But then I snapped out of it.... you meant Ross Brawn. :rotfl:

#2729 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 14:16

For a second I thought Rubens Barichello when I saw the RB. But then I snapped out of it.... you meant Ross Brawn. :rotfl:


LOL. And it could be Red Bull too.

#2730 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 14:23

Plenty of other drivers do the same, and if they don't it's because it's not necessary. Not because they lack the skill or can't be bothered.



Don't think it as anything to do with skill, and yes, several other team's onboards show similar brake-balance adjustment during a lap. I checked some, and it seems as I said, that either it's unnecessary for them(RB), or they have a different way to do that. Red could simply be more advanced(in that too :lol:) .

#2731 ali_M

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 16:29

Don't think it as anything to do with skill, and yes, several other team's onboards show similar brake-balance adjustment during a lap. I checked some, and it seems as I said, that either it's unnecessary for them(RB), or they have a different way to do that. Red could simply be more advanced(in that too :lol:) .


We see Michael drive qualifying laps while not making any adjustments to his brake balance and then he'll drive while frequently making adjustments. It all depends on the car and the track. It's all in his usual effort to extract the maximum from the car and he has the ability to multitask in that way. Not all the drivers can do this.

#2732 Clatter

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 20:32

We see Michael drive qualifying laps while not making any adjustments to his brake balance and then he'll drive while frequently making adjustments. It all depends on the car and the track. It's all in his usual effort to extract the maximum from the car and he has the ability to multitask in that way. Not all the drivers can do this.


Name those that can't.

#2733 SpartanChas

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 20:51

:rotfl: maybe that underachiever vettel would do better if he pulled his finger out a bit and adjusted his brake balance more often.

Edited by SpartanChas, 31 December 2012 - 19:36.


#2734 Clatter

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 20:57

:rofl: maybe vettel would do better if he pulled his finger out a bit and adjusted his brake balance more often.


Or perhaps MS would have done better if he hadn't been messing about in the cockpit. There's at least one recent crash of his because he wasn't paying attention.

#2735 Sakae

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 21:12

I wonder how would you know that to be so certain.

#2736 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 21:13

Or perhaps MS would have done better if he hadn't been messing about in the cockpit. There's at least one recent crash of his because he wasn't paying attention.


You're way off the mark.


#2737 Jejking

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 23:36

Schumachers 'kill count' in 2012 was 1 (one) victim and that was in Singapore. Spain wasn't his fault.

#2738 George Costanza

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 01:40



1998 Vintage....

http://storm.oldcarm.....1998 2627.jpg

Edited by George Costanza, 31 December 2012 - 01:40.


#2739 Jejking

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 02:19

https://docs.google....tQkk/edit?pli=1

SkySports on Merc, Rosberg and Schumacher in 2012. Enjoy!

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#2740 DutchCruijff

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:11

I've been reading "Michael Schumacher: The Edge of Greatness" by J.Allen, if you haven't read it please do as it's a great book, and these two excerpts were rather interesting and puts his racing characteristics into context.

"He never tried any shit one me. If you look even when I was Jaguar he stayed behind me once at Spa for seven or eight laps because he knew I wouldn't take any shit. Everyone says "Michael pulled over one me or pushed me off here". If you don't move your car he's going to have an accident and he won't do it again. And that's why I never understood these pricets with their complaining. Keep your car there, so he driver into you. If he drives into you he won't do it again, because he's fighting for the championship and you're not" - Eddie Irvine, who mentions that he wasn't a particularly great test driver and that, as any sane man would have it, his strengths lay in his anticipation rather than his reaction time.

"Respect is important to me. I used to have to fight a running battle with the drivers of the older generation, who played the role of master. If I believe what Gerhard Berger has told me then it was predominantly me who was treated in that way. None of them (Senna/Piquet/Mansell et al) liked me at first. They wanted to show the young lad the way things are. There were, for some instance, some nice brake tests. You would drive into a full power corner and suddenly the man in front is of the opinion he should his foot off and block you for a lap. And if you did the same to them, the older drivers coldn't stand it. They claimed I was arrogant if I complained about these incidents. Now that I am an experienced driver I would never act like that with the boys." - Schumacher, something that's incredibly telling of the racing enivornment in which he was brought up in.

#2741 ali.unal

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 11:42

https://docs.google....tQkk/edit?pli=1

SkySports on Merc, Rosberg and Schumacher in 2012. Enjoy!

Sky has really improved in terms of montage. That's one hell of a goodbye Schumi edit at the end of the video. Well done.

By the way, I noticed that Schumacher apparently elected not to show up in front of cameras after he decided to retire. No appearance here, no appearance in FiA Gala Edit.

Edited by ali.unal, 31 December 2012 - 11:43.


#2742 AJFIN

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 12:55

Sky has really improved in terms of montage. That's one hell of a goodbye Schumi edit at the end of the video. Well done.

By the way, I noticed that Schumacher apparently elected not to show up in front of cameras after he decided to retire. No appearance here, no appearance in FiA Gala Edit.

Wasn't he in the FIA gala edit with his back turned to the camera, throwing a stack of cards over his shoulders? :confused:

#2743 ali.unal

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 16:59

Wasn't he in the FIA gala edit with his back turned to the camera, throwing a stack of cards over his shoulders? :confused:

Oh really? I didn't spot. May have missed.

#2744 Jejking

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:32

Sky has really improved in terms of montage. That's one hell of a goodbye Schumi edit at the end of the video. Well done.

By the way, I noticed that Schumacher apparently elected not to show up in front of cameras after he decided to retire. No appearance here, no appearance in FiA Gala Edit.

It wasn't Sky, they'd WISH. It's FOM ;)

MSC did appear in the gala vid, it was him if I saw it correctly.

BBC show with the usual pissing on Schumacher. What a failure, they didn't even mention the podium in Valencia. It's bullshit.


Edited by Jejking, 31 December 2012 - 18:36.


#2745 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 18:36

Or perhaps MS would have done better if he hadn't been messing about in the cockpit. There's at least one recent crash of his because he wasn't paying attention.


And 91 wins

69 poles

156 podiums

Most laps led


And a lot of ass kicked.

#2746 Clatter

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 21:46

And 91 wins

69 poles

156 podiums

Most laps led


And a lot of ass kicked.


You keep on living in the past if it makes you feel better.


#2747 Sakae

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Posted 31 December 2012 - 22:19

Happy New Year Michael wishing to you, your family, friends, and fans alike.
Cheers
Sakae

#2748 baddog

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:13

Or perhaps MS would have done better if he hadn't been messing about in the cockpit. There's at least one recent crash of his because he wasn't paying attention.

Better than pole at Monaco? sure..

#2749 pUs

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 09:21

A 43 year old driving one handed at 150mph inches away from a barrier and setting the fastest time around the track that demands total skill and commitment. Yup....lap of the year for me.

Grazie Michael.


:up: :up: Pure class. The guy will be missed.

#2750 Buttoneer

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Posted 01 January 2013 - 11:26

In RC, the driver threads started with the Lewis Hamilton thread which was a discussion about a new up-and-coming driver who ought to make it into F1. Over a period of years the title of the thread was taken as a banner to discuss any and all aspects in which Lewis was involved, including lots of non-motorsport discussion, and it then spread to all other drivers who now have their own topic.

Threads like these have been looked upon by some as a 'fan appreciation' thread where dissenting opinions should not be given voice and by others as places to go to troll. It is this environment where the labels 'fanboy' and 'hater' or 'anti' have become ingrained and then employed more widely across the forum. During a race, progress is followed here instead of in the race thread or live forum; when a site releases a poll each driver thread is used to discuss that drivers position within it; when there is an incident, the thread for each driver involved becomes part of the extended battleground. In reality, the threads have become micro-communities where fans of particular drivers tend to discuss every aspect of F1 with other posters they feel comfortable with. Potentially good topics of discussion often go unnoticed by the more general membership who may have had something positive to contribute, because it was not clear the discussion was taking place.

We have decided that the threads are a barrier to the free flow of discussion and ideas and have taken the decision to ban driver threads as part of the introduction to our new rules, which can be found here (link).

As always, we are happy to listen to your views and opinions on how the forum is moderated but please, by PM only.