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Do Ferrari want two strong WDC challenging drivers?


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#1 Wiggy

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:27

One of the recurrent comments I've read after all of today's news, is that Perez signing for McLaren means Vettel is now a shoe in for a seat next to Alonso at Ferrari.

Surely this won't happen, Ferrari have a strong history of employing 'almost men' to sit next to their star drivers. Irvine, Barrichello, Massa. All quite capable at scoring points here and there, but slow enough not to upset Schumacher, Raikkonen (in theory) and Alonso.

That's not to say that this is a bad policy, it obviously works as Alonso has stealthly sat atop the drivers standings for some time now, as all the other teams with arguably quicker cars let their pairs of equal status drivers squabble over who's looks bigger.

Someone like Webber would be perfect for the Ferrari number two seat. 'Always the bridesmaid' etc. Good enough to help secure the WCC, but not the WDC

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#2 Jon83

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:29

I'm just not convinced about the Vettel to Ferrari stuff, but I'd love to see it happen. In 2008, Ferrari had two strong, race-winning drivers which helped them to their last WCC. Since then, they've came very close to one WDC and nothing else. That needs to change.

#3 Disgrace

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:32

I'm just not convinced about the Vettel to Ferrari stuff, but I'd love to see it happen. In 2008, Ferrari had two strong, race-winning drivers which helped them to their last WCC. Since then, they've came very close to one WDC and nothing else. That needs to change.


:up:

I'm not convinced either, but it's hard to understand Ferrari letting their most able and qualified young driver program take his talent and money to McLaren. As I suggested either, Mercedes have consciously overlooked candidates from within (di Resta) for Hamilton, so who would Ferrari overlook Perez for? It has to be an actual superstar rather than the future superstar otherwise Domenicali is in the firing line.

Edited by Disgrace, 28 September 2012 - 16:34.


#4 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:34

In 2008, Ferrari had two strong, race-winning drivers which helped them to their last WCC. Since then, they've came very close to one WDC and nothing else. That needs to change.

In 2008, Ferrari also had a hell of a car.

Thats really the most important thing for Ferrari. Build a better car that can actually challenge for the WCC.

#5 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:35

I think it's more a case of Ferrari securing a top end driver for the future. The fact that they'll have two top drivers will just be the icing on the cake. Alonso is getting on in years and his performances will start to wane.

#6 Jon83

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:36

:up:

I'm not convinced either, but it's hard to understand Ferrari letting their most able and qualified young driver program take his talent and money to McLaren. As I suggested either, Mercedes have consciously overlooked candidates from within (di Resta) for Hamilton, so who would Ferrari overlook Perez for? It has to be an actual superstar rather than the future superstar otherwise Domenicali is in the firing line.


There's no doubt the timing does make sense and if Massa is retained for next season, we will have our answer I think.

You do wonder what would have happened if Kubica hadn't had his accident. That would have been a great partnership IMO.

#7 fabr68

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:36

If Newey comes to Ferrari as part of the "Vettel" package, I totally see it happening. Heck, even Alonso would sign on that deal.

#8 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:41

James Allen says his sources in Italy are convinced that Vettel has some sort of an agreement with Ferrari. If I'm not mistaken Pino Allievi has also reported this and as far as inside Ferrari info goes it doesn't get better than him. Period.

#9 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:44

I honestly dont understand how people are thinking this Lewis/Perez saga validates the Vettel to Ferrari theory.

I'd love for it to happen, but its not like Ferrari still dont have other options.

Edited by Seanspeed, 28 September 2012 - 16:44.


#10 fabr68

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:47

I honestly dont understand how people are thinking this Lewis/Perez saga validates the Vettel to Ferrari theory.


It doesnt Sean. It is just part of the fallacy that if a strange rumor gets confirmed then all strange rumors will get confirmed then. Typical reaction from the media.

With that said, I think Alonso and Vettel at Ferrari would be awesome. A great opportunity for Alonso to prove he is fine with competitive teammates, for Vettel to show he is for real and for Ferrari that they can build a good car.

Also, this would be a huge blow for Red Bull who are probably not happy about this rumour.

Edited by fabr68, 28 September 2012 - 16:49.


#11 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:50

I honestly dont understand how people are thinking this Lewis/Perez saga validates the Vettel to Ferrari theory.

I'd love for it to happen, but its not like Ferrari still dont have other options.

If it weren't the case then I'm sure they'd replace Massa. Massa is just a seat warmer next year...

There has been way to many ramblings about this Vettel/Ferrari agreement for it to be merely smoke.

#12 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:52

James Allen says his sources in Italy are convinced that Vettel has some sort of an agreement with Ferrari. If I'm not mistaken Pino Allievi has also reported this and as far as inside Ferrari info goes it doesn't get better than him. Period.

He was also convinced that Schumacher staying with Mercedes for 2013 was a done deal months ago.

I honestly dont understand how people are thinking this Lewis/Perez saga validates the Vettel to Ferrari theory.

I'd love for it to happen, but its not like Ferrari still dont have other options.

I'd love to see an Alonso/Vettel pairing, but I think you're right. Perhaps it's more dependent if Ferrari retain Massa, keeping the status quo ready for Vettel craziness in 2014. But signing a Di Resta/Hulkenberg type for 2013 would pretty much quash Vettel to Ferrari in 2014 I think.

#13 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 16:57

He was also convinced that Schumacher staying with Mercedes for 2013 was a done deal months ago.

I'd love to see an Alonso/Vettel pairing, but I think you're right. Perhaps it's more dependent if Ferrari retain Massa, keeping the status quo ready for Vettel craziness in 2014. But signing a Di Resta/Hulkenberg type for 2013 would pretty much quash Vettel to Ferrari in 2014 I think.

He may have been convinced then but he was one of the reporters/paddock dwellers who stuck by his guns regarding the Hamilton saga.

Anyway, I'm willing to wager that Vettel joins Ferrari in 2014.

#14 August

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:01

I think Ferrari's priority is to get the best driver available. But I don't think two title contenders per se would be a problem for Ferrari. But it's easier to get the best driver in the grid if you can promise you're the absolute lead driver in the team. So, unlike the lead driver accepts it, Ferrari won't hire another title contender.

#15 RealRacing

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:16

There's another thread dedicated to Vettel-Ferrari. What seems strange to me is that McLaren passed on who was supposed to be in line for a seat (diResta), ignored a proven race winner like KR and instead went for a driver that was supposed to go to Ferrari :drunk: In other words, they went for the least likely replacement.

Ferrari's policy will be confirmed if they keep Massa for next season. FA has already confirmed that it would be his preferred option. Although we all know it's a waist of a seat, someone else may upset a balance that is likely to bring them at least the WDC this year.



#16 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:19

But signing a Di Resta/Hulkenberg type for 2013 would pretty much quash Vettel to Ferrari in 2014 I think.

We're all assuming that Vettel to Ferrari in 2014 is even on the cards in the first place.

What if its not? What if Ferrari actually do need to think of finding a proper replacement for Massa? I can still see that being a difficult experience for Ferrari. For one, who will they get that they can be reasonably sure will be better than Massa? Two, and this is a big one - who can they actually get at all? Which drivers are willing to stake their reputations going against Alonso?

Keeping Massa might simply be a sign that they couldn't find a suitable/willing replacement.

#17 RealRacing

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:22

We're all assuming that Vettel to Ferrari in 2014 is even on the cards in the first place.

What if its not? What if Ferrari actually do need to think of finding a proper replacement for Massa? I can still see that being a difficult experience for Ferrari. For one, who will they get that they can be reasonably sure will be better than Massa? Two, and this is a big one - who can they actually get at all? Which drivers are willing to stake their reputations going against Alonso (with the team fully behind him) ?

Keeping Massa might simply be a sign that they couldn't find a suitable/willing replacement.


Fixed

Key word.


#18 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:30

We're all assuming that Vettel to Ferrari in 2014 is even on the cards in the first place.

Of course, the whole Vettel rumour could be absolute rubbish in the end, but we're just speculating trying to fill in the gaps. Whoever Ferrari re-/sign is going to either cool or add flames to the 2014 rumour.

Two, and this is a big one - who can they actually get at all? Which drivers are willing to stake their reputations going against Alonso?

With the opportunity of podiums and wins once in a while (when Alonso DNFS), I imagine half the grid would love that seat.

...went for a driver that was supposed to go to Ferrari :drunk: In other words, they went for the least likely replacement.

Isn't this what happen in 2002 with Kimi?

#19 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:41

With the opportunity of podiums and wins once in a while (when Alonso DNFS), I imagine half the grid would love that seat.

Drivers have to think long-term. Perhaps a guy like Webber would have been ideal, as he doesn't have a lot to lose if he gets smashed by Alonso, but imagine what it'd do to a guy like Hulkenberg or Di Resta who expect to be in the sport for a long time still...

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#20 SCUDmissile

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 17:56

Well, Ferrari originally wanted Schumacher and Raikkonen for 2007, as McLaren were getting Alonso.

Despite what many have said, Alonso has repeatedly said he wouldn't mind Vettel at Ferrari, and Vettel loves Ferrari, Ferrari love Vettel, I don't see this not happening because of some no.1/no.2 policy.

Especially now that the bastion of good old racing Lewis Hamilton who never does team orders has apparently been handed no.1 status at Merc. (He deserves it).

Vettel and Alonso seem like good guys, so I bet they get on well if this does happen.

(No smoke without fire, eh? Especially after today)

#21 Clatter

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:11

I honestly dont understand how people are thinking this Lewis/Perez saga validates the Vettel to Ferrari theory.

I'd love for it to happen, but its not like Ferrari still dont have other options.


But the Vettel rumour easily pre-dates the Hamilton one and so far Ferraris moves do seem to indicate that there could be some truth to it.

#22 Spillage

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:14

Everything I saw from Perez suggested he was more than willing to go to Ferrari if the opportunity became available, and everything I have seen from Ferrari - their reluctance to sign Perez, their interest in Webber - suggests that they were willing to replace Massa only in the short-term. Surely this means they are pretty confident of securing a big name for 2014. Otherwise they would have signed Perez.

Let's also not forget that Ferrari were interested in Kubica before his accident, and that he may even have signed some sort of pre-contractual arrangement with them - perhaps the plan has always been to pair Alonso with another top driver?

In any case, I hope they do get Vettel, because the Alonso/Vettel pairing is going to be one of the most eagerly-anticipated for years :love:

#23 King Six

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:16

I think most people acknowledge that Ferrari want a solid number 2 driver. However Massa is a number 4 driver. People know Alonso is faster than him, but people weren't expecting it to be this bad. Ferrari won't ever have a hope of even 2nd in the WCC with Massa. 1st would be a pipe dream.

Rubens was usually always there to be 2nd whenever Schumacher won, he even won races himself. Massa is no Barrichello...

#24 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:18

But the Vettel rumour easily pre-dates the Hamilton one and so far Ferraris moves do seem to indicate that there could be some truth to it.

Ferrari's moves? They haven't done anything so far.

Some people say the world will end in a few months time. Does the fact that the world hasn't ended already lend credibility to the rumor?

I mean, sure, it could all go together, but I dont really see that it makes the rumor anymore valid.

#25 SCUDmissile

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:23

Everything I saw from Perez suggested he was more than willing to go to Ferrari if the opportunity became available, and everything I have seen from Ferrari - their reluctance to sign Perez, their interest in Webber - suggests that they were willing to replace Massa only in the short-term. Surely this means they are pretty confident of securing a big name for 2014. Otherwise they would have signed Perez.

Let's also not forget that Ferrari were interested in Kubica before his accident, and that he may even have signed some sort of pre-contractual arrangement with them - perhaps the plan has always been to pair Alonso with another top driver?

In any case, I hope they do get Vettel, because the Alonso/Vettel pairing is going to be one of the most eagerly-anticipated for years :love:

Kubica admitted that he was going to end up at Ferrari in 2012 if he didn't have that crash. And thank you for reminding me, another move that Ferrari wanted that Alonso supposedly boycotted.

#26 Clatter

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:23

Ferrari's moves? They haven't done anything so far.

Some people say the world will end in a few months time. Does the fact that the world hasn't ended already lend credibility to the rumor?

I mean, sure, it could all go together, but I dont really see that it makes the rumor anymore valid.


They have blocked their young driver from joining and look very much like only wanting to get someone in on a one year contract. IMHO their actions or lack of if you like, suggest to me that they do indeed have someone already earmarked for 2014.


#27 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:30

Kubica admitted that he was going to end up at Ferrari in 2012 if he didn't have that crash. And thank you for reminding me, another move that Ferrari wanted that Alonso supposedly boycotted.

Yeah I seem to recall him saying that all roads were leading to Ferrari. He even said that he and Fernando would have been a fantastic partnership taking Ferrari forward.

This whole Alonso doesn't want a competitive teammate is baseless but it keeps popping up based on 2007.

#28 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:34

They have blocked their young driver from joining and look very much like only wanting to get someone in on a one year contract. IMHO their actions or lack of if you like, suggest to me that they do indeed have someone already earmarked for 2014.

Ferrari not hiring Perez could easily just be a sign that they haven't been convinced by him enough and thats something I'd be inclined to agree with them about.

Ferrari only wanting somebody for a one year contract is 100% speculation made up to support the idea of Vettel going there in 2014. Take out that blind assumption and the picture looks a bit different.

#29 Clatter

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 18:38

Ferrari not hiring Perez could easily just be a sign that they haven't been convinced by him enough and thats something I'd be inclined to agree with them about.

Ferrari only wanting somebody for a one year contract is 100% speculation made up to support the idea of Vettel going there in 2014. Take out that blind assumption and the picture looks a bit different.


Take out your assumptions and it looks a plausible picture.

Like everyone here I have no idea what will actually transpire, but can form an opinion based on what we see\hear. So far it all sounds very similar to the Alonso rumours, with plenty of denial going on then as well.

#30 Hanzo

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 19:00

Massa won't drive for Ferrari in 2014. The only reason they let Perez go is because Vettel is going to Ferrari. If Ferrari had another driver in mind for 2014 they would have signed him for 2013 already.

Recent comments from Montezemolo and Domenicali fit with this.

Edited by Hanzo, 28 September 2012 - 19:01.


#31 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 19:33

Ferrari not hiring Perez could easily just be a sign that they haven't been convinced by him enough and thats something I'd be inclined to agree with them about.

Ferrari only wanting somebody for a one year contract is 100% speculation made up to support the idea of Vettel going there in 2014. Take out that blind assumption and the picture looks a bit different.

Sean, there are quite a few drivers who could do what Massa is doing now and possibly better such as Hulkenberg, Heidfeld etc who would jump at the opportunity to race for Ferrari but I don't think they would settle for a one year deal. Massa has no choice but accept whatever terms they throw his way because I don't hear of people lining up to sign him.


#32 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 19:45

Sean, there are quite a few drivers who could do what Massa is doing now and possibly better such as Hulkenberg, Heidfeld etc who would jump at the opportunity to race for Ferrari but I don't think they would settle for a one year deal. Massa has no choice but accept whatever terms they throw his way because I don't hear of people lining up to sign him.

I think its wrong to just assume that Ferrari can get like any driver they want. If I was a guy like Hulkenberg, I'd be legitimately worried about my reputation going up against Alonso. People see the sort of flak that Massa gets and nobody wants to be the next Massa. Even Kovalainen's career has taken a huge dent by his 'mega opportunity' at Mclaren. Going up into a big team against a really strong teammate might not always be in a driver's best interest.

I'd like Hulkenberg, though. Massa to Sauber, Hulkenberg to Ferrari, Bianchi to Force India sounds good to me.

#33 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 19:57

I think its wrong to just assume that Ferrari can get like any driver they want. If I was a guy like Hulkenberg, I'd be legitimately worried about my reputation going up against Alonso. People see the sort of flak that Massa gets and nobody wants to be the next Massa. Even Kovalainen's career has taken a huge dent by his 'mega opportunity' at Mclaren. Going up into a big team against a really strong teammate might not always be in a driver's best interest.

I'd like Hulkenberg, though. Massa to Sauber, Hulkenberg to Ferrari, Bianchi to Force India sounds good to me.

That's just the thing. Signing a short term contract only to get your ass handed to you by Alonso is not a good idea. Such a move is going to do your career no good as there is no guarantee that another team would want you.

Now take the same drivers going up against Alonso on a long term deal which offers some stability and they'd jump at the opportunity of being in competitive machinery.

#34 Seanspeed

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 20:02

That's just the thing. Signing a short term contract only to get your ass handed to you by Alonso is not a good idea. Such a move is going to do your career no good as there is no guarantee that another team would want you.

Now take the same drivers going up against Alonso on a long term deal which offers some stability and they'd jump at the opportunity of being in competitive machinery.

A year one stint would at least give them an excuse.

"Oh, ya know, I just didn't quite have the time to adjust within the team."

"I always knew it'd just be a stopgap and the team didn't really listen to my inputs."

Blah blah blah.

Long-term, a driver has no excuses though, and they are stuck with it. If the first season goes by and they get smashed, they've got to just suck it up and get smashed again the next year. A driver has to be really confident they'll do well.

You all could well be right(and I hope y'all are), I just dont think things are quite as clearcut as some are making it sound. I definitely think there's a good possibility that Ferrari really are having a difficult time finding somebody better. We'll see.

#35 Ferrari2183

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 20:14

A year one stint would at least give them an excuse.

"Oh, ya know, I just didn't quite have the time to adjust within the team."

"I always knew it'd just be a stopgap and the team didn't really listen to my inputs."

Blah blah blah.

Long-term, a driver has no excuses though, and they are stuck with it. If the first season goes by and they get smashed, they've got to just suck it up and get smashed again the next year. A driver has to be really confident they'll do well.

You all could well be right(and I hope y'all are), I just dont think things are quite as clearcut as some are making it sound. I definitely think there's a good possibility that Ferrari really are having a difficult time finding somebody better. We'll see.

That made me chuckle. Seriously though a driver can get thrashed by Alonso but still look good by getting results. Something which Massa hasn't been doing.

I just think that them persisting with Massa is a reflection of their long term plan with Vettel. I actually think Alonso and Vettel would be a smashing partnership.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 28 September 2012 - 20:16.


#36 rsaca

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 20:33

Every F1 driver is a competitive animal, even Karthikeyan, so if they offer you the chance to drive a Ferrari for one year, wouldn't you take it?

What if you start getting results? What if you genuinely think you can step up to the challenge of Fernando Alonso? Trust me, I'm sure there are a lot of drivers who would take the chance.

Now, I do believe if Ferrari let go their most promising star of their Young Drivers' Academy, they surely have to have someone better/proven. This is where Vettel falls in.

#37 FenderJaguar

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 20:37

I think it's a done deal. Alonso is doing great this year but he still hasn't won anything and it might have been different if he had. Maybe a 2012 WDC will change this but probably not.

#38 apoka

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 20:44

A year one stint would at least give them an excuse.

"Oh, ya know, I just didn't quite have the time to adjust within the team."

"I always knew it'd just be a stopgap and the team didn't really listen to my inputs."

Blah blah blah.


Slightly offtopic: Honestly, I think having a driver of the calibre of Alonso or Vettel as team mate is the best thing, which can happen to a driver - especially if you are already in F1 for 2 or more years. As long as you are not soundly beaten all the time, it doesn't hurt your reputation much and you can actually learn a lot. What's more important, you have the opportunity to become one of the greatest drivers in F1 history and learn a lot. It's true that it doesn't work for Massa, but he gets so much flak is that he almost never beats Alonso for several years now and is sometimes really far off. I doubt his performance would be good enough to survive in a midfield team (I mean drivers like Perez and sometimes Di Resta, Kobayashi, Hulkenberg are often beating him in teams with much less resources).

#39 Dan333SP

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 20:55

How about Ferrari signing Schumacher back to a 1 year deal to hold the seat for Vettel and provide infinitely better car development and driving standards than Massa (and I'm a Massa fan!). That would allow Michael to retire with the team that he's been so successful with, and he won't mind being beaten by Alonso because Rosberg has already proven that the MSC of today is not the same thing as the MSC of 2000. I think it'd be the best possible scenario on all counts, with Massa going to Sauber with Kamui.

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#40 SCUDmissile

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 21:08

How about Ferrari signing Schumacher back to a 1 year deal to hold the seat for Vettel and provide infinitely better car development and driving standards than Massa (and I'm a Massa fan!). That would allow Michael to retire with the team that he's been so successful with, and he won't mind being beaten by Alonso because Rosberg has already proven that the MSC of today is not the same thing as the MSC of 2000. I think it'd be the best possible scenario on all counts, with Massa going to Sauber with Kamui.

That is what I would like, but won't happen, I think. Too much instability.

I can see Schumi fans are really pissed today. I knew it was wrong seeing him in anything other than red. If only his shoulder/back didn't go three years ago.

#41 jeze

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 21:54

That is what I would like, but won't happen, I think. Too much instability.

I can see Schumi fans are really pissed today. I knew it was wrong seeing him in anything other than red. If only his shoulder/back didn't go three years ago.

What would've happened would have been:



* No testing in KERS car on slick tyres

* Embarrassed by Kimi Räikkönen

* Kimi's widows declare Kimi the best driver ever lived

* Ferrari still race Alonso-Massa in 2010

* Schumacher retired for good



#42 Mandzipop

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:05

Every F1 driver is a competitive animal, even Karthikeyan, so if they offer you the chance to drive a Ferrari for one year, wouldn't you take it?

What if you start getting results? What if you genuinely think you can step up to the challenge of Fernando Alonso? Trust me, I'm sure there are a lot of drivers who would take the chance.

Now, I do believe if Ferrari let go their most promising star of their Young Drivers' Academy, they surely have to have someone better/proven. This is where Vettel falls in.



On top of that the gushing noises being made by Monte and Dom sound oh too familiar.

Ferrair pattern.

Rumour around a year or so prior to Monza of announcement rumours of talks with said driver.
Rumour of pre-contract (or full contract).
Ferrari then gush over said driver and never deny it.
Said driver denies everything.
Monza prior to the season joining driver is announced.

So with that combined, they had a driver tipped for Ferrari but was turned down and allowed to go to Mclaren.

Ferrari have a choice, either bring in a proven top tier driver or bring in a driver that is happy to get spanked by Alonso. If Perez isn't experienced enough, then that pretty much eliminates most of the talent on the grid that are available. If they wanted the Hulk or Di Resta, why not just get them now? They would be cheaper than Massa. So why have they not been signed? To me that suggest they have a specific driver in mind. There are too many options open to them for this year, so why are they holding out? Maybe it is because they can only offer a 1 year deal as they already have someone on the cards. It has to be a big name for them to do that. There is one big name that becomes available in 2014 and that is Vettel.

That is just my opinion and deduction and woman's logic on this. I might be totally wrong.



#43 bourbon

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 02:45

On the other hand, Ferrari may not have as many options as some believe. What makes anyone think that a driver would happily be Barrichelloed in this day and age? The other option is to have 2 top drivers, but Alonso is the "other teammate" so drivers think twice about it. Vettel and Button have voiced reservations. Webber did not, but his words were telling.

It isn't all about what Ferrari wants. It is also about what Ferrari can get and when they can get it!

#44 NotSoSilentBob

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 03:40

I'm still of the opinion that the following is most likely to happen:

1. Massa retained on a one year deal.
2. Webber is signed as Alonso's #2 for 2014, dependent on Webber having a strong first half to 2013 and Massa being his crappy self again.

As said several times above, Webber's strong enough to bank the WCC points for Ferrari but not strong enough to challenge Alonso on a regular basis. That's all Ferrari need. As long as Webber keeps delivering regular points for his team he'll retain a place in Formula One.


Alonso is getting on in years and his performances will start to wane.


He's only 31! Alonso will be top of his game until at least 35 or 36, if not longer.

Edited by NotSoSilentBob, 29 September 2012 - 03:43.


#45 ZooL

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 14:30

No.

They never have.

People who think ALonso will accept Vettel, and that Vettel will join Alonso are deluded. Both refused Hamilton as a teamate.

#46 olliek88

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 14:43

I honestly dont understand how people are thinking this Lewis/Perez saga validates the Vettel to Ferrari theory.

I'd love for it to happen, but its not like Ferrari still dont have other options.


If Massa re-signs for Ferrari with a 1 year deal i'll be walking down to my local bookies and laying a score on Vettel to Ferrari for 2014. As others have said, i'm suspicious of the fact Ferrari have clearly overlooked Perez, its as clear as day he was ready for a top team so to come out and say the opposite is just an excuse to leave that seat open.



#47 Disgrace

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:05

If Massa re-signs for Ferrari with a 1 year deal i'll be walking down to my local bookies and laying a score on Vettel to Ferrari for 2014. As others have said, i'm suspicious of the fact Ferrari have clearly overlooked Perez, its as clear as day he was ready for a top team so to come out and say the opposite is just an excuse to leave that seat open.


It's more about the underlined than the bolded, in my opinion.

Ferrari are traditionally conservative with their driver choices; they haven't taken on a hot young star since Alesi in 1991, otherwise most other appointments have been WDCs or lapdogs for said WDCs. If not in those categories, their drivers have needed several years of experience to get the drive (Capelli, Berger).

"Ready for a top team" depends on which top team.

Edited by Disgrace, 29 September 2012 - 15:06.


#48 ZooL

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:08

Perez is beating Massa already in WDC. So he deserved that seat. He's achieved more with a less able car.

#49 Clatter

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Posted 29 September 2012 - 15:11

No.

They never have.

People who think ALonso will accept Vettel, and that Vettel will join Alonso are deluded. Both refused Hamilton as a teamate.


Thinking about it the only time I can remember it happening was Mansell and Prost, and that didn't turn out too pretty.