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Ecclestone wants to scrap 2014 engines because they don't sound good


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#1 Cavani

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:22

this new Jaguar C-X75 has a 1.6L revving to 10,000 RPM (turbo and super charged) , f1 engines sounds will be close to that.

http://www.topgear.c...oise-2012-07-25

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#2 korzeniow

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:24

Nothing special. Sounds like fireman siren

Edited by korzeniow, 26 July 2012 - 16:25.


#3 jrg19

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:26

What about the extra 5,000 RPM the F1 engines will be doing over that?

#4 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:27

Or the road cars sound nothing like race cars, even at the same engine sizes.

#5 Coops3

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:27

What will the rev limit be with these new engines? I would have hoped a lot more than 10k rpm?

#6 Coops3

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:27

What about the extra 5,000 RPM the F1 engines will be doing over that?


If it's 15k it'll sound nothing like that.

#7 wacktifosi

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:29

That sounds a lot like an IndyCar this year, unsurprisingly. Still not a great substitute for the current screamers but let's hope the extra rpm helps (although I'm not sure about 5k, I thought it was only going to be another 2-3k).

And yes, +Racecar always helps an engine along.

Edited by wacktifosi, 26 July 2012 - 16:29.


#8 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:29

Speed up the audio to x1.5 and you'll hear the 15.000rpm tone.

Awful sound, let's enjoy 2013.

#9 Jon83

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:45

Speed up the audio to x1.5 and you'll hear the 15.000rpm tone.

Awful sound, let's enjoy 2013.


Yep.

I haven't been able to make it to a GP this season but will certainly be at one of them next season.



#10 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:49

Yep.

I haven't been able to make it to a GP this season but will certainly be at one of them next season.


Yes, do it! because after 2013 the sharp f1 sound will be heard only in special events where old cares are driven for fun.

#11 MadYarpen

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 16:50

And I was excited when I saw thread title:(

#12 beute

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 17:08

Dunno why you guys are all so upset, after experiencing V12 and V10 engines nothing is gonna change anything, at least for me, v8 sounds crappy already.
To me it doesnt matter if they change from one crap sounding engine to another, we will never get the real screamers back anyway.

I can just hope that the new engines wont sound like the old turbo era engines, from what I could hear on youtube videos they were by far the worst sounding engines...

Edited by beute, 26 July 2012 - 17:34.


#13 PEW

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 17:29

Must admit the V8 is a nice sound but not addictive- for me the V10 hit the spot- would travel miles just to hear that roar!

#14 DrProzac

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 17:33

Or the road cars sound nothing like race cars, even at the same engine sizes.

Exactly. It has to have a totally different exhaust arrangement.

#15 fer312t

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 17:59

Unless I'm mistaken, the Jaguar in the video is a 4-cyliner...


#16 spacekid

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 18:04

Well that was the sound of dissapointment.

However, I'm not overly conerned, I quite liked the sound of the 80s turbo cars. I think an F1 engine working at full pelt will always sound impressive.

I saw a V10 live, and heard the V8s live earlier this year. The V10 was much, much more impressive. Although loud the V8s weren't as impressive. And they sounded bloody awful on the over run - if this is what they sound like without traction control and off throttle blowing they must have been truly awful before.

I'm ok with the turbos. Eras come and go, and now its time for the turbos to come back.

#17 engel

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 18:53

this new Jaguar C-X75 has a 1.6L revving to 10,000 RPM (turbo and super charged) , f1 engines sounds will be close to that.

http://www.topgear.c...oise-2012-07-25


no they won't. V6 for F1 engines, the Jag is 4 pot

#18 Scotracer

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 19:03

A) Road car engines don't have as aggressive cams

B) Road car engines are silenced and muffled for both NVH and emissions reasons

C) F1 cars will be V6


Note: Everyone saying F1 engines will be revving to 15,000rpm needs to think again - the limit might be that but with the fuel flow limit peaking at 10,500rpm means the cars wont be revving much passed 12,000rpm I suspect.

Edited by Scotracer, 26 July 2012 - 19:03.


#19 smoothcrim

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 19:24

They will sound alot better than the current v8 rubbish.

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#20 Jon83

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 20:39

They will sound alot better than the current v8 rubbish.


:lol:

Guesswork at the moment!

#21 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:01

They will sound alot better than the current v8 rubbish.

They should some very similar to current Indycar or 80s F1 car. Merely an OK sound (on road courses, at Indy a huge improvement on the unpleasant tone of the old engine!). Fans of Japanese cars should fine the tone very pleasing... nothing special IMO.

The current cars do not have a nice tone, it's a bit bland. Who says more revs is necessary better? There is nothing wrong with V8 per se, the sound of a classic American V8 or similar engine in a NASCAR, sprint car, mustang etc is fantastical. The GP2 cars also sound nice (and no one seems to complain they have a nearly identical engine format as that "awful" Tony George chose for the Indy 500 in 1997!).

Only the classic Ferrari V12 (or the Lamborghini...) is truly "musical" :well:

#22 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 07:03

I can just hope that the new engines wont sound like the old turbo era engines, from what I could hear on youtube videos they were by far the worst sounding engines...

They should be quite similar you'd guess...

#23 ali.unal

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 21:54

What on earth is this guy about?

Ecclestone says new engines could be scrapped

The new engine formula planned for 2014 and beyond may very well be scrapped, according to Bernie Ecclestone who strongly opposes the change.

Plans are currently in place to replace the current 2.4 litre V8 engines with 1.6 litre turbo-charged V6 engines in a bid to improve the sports environmental image.

The revelation comes after Ecclestone attended a fire-up of the new engine, which are currently under development by Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes.

"I listened to the noise of the engines in Maranello the other day, the new engine and the old engine, and even Luca di Montezemolo (Ferrari Chairman) said it sounded terrible and didn't like it," Christian Sylt quotes the 81-year-old as saying.

Ecclestone is confident that FIA president Jean Todt and Di Montezemolo will agree to at least delaying the engines which have spiralled in cost, despite F1 entering a budget reducing era.

"[Todt] will get rid of it," he said, adding: "I think Luca is also saying we should suspend it for two or three years. I think it is sensible to get rid of it and stick with what we have got. It is much cheaper than the new one. It probably could be 30% of the price."

No way these engines would be scrapped. Manufacturers have spent hell out of a money on the R&D of these units. It would be a big blow on their budgets, which incidentally the whole F1 have been trying to cut. What a counterproductive proposal from Bernie. Is he losing it now?

#24 BigCHrome

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 21:56

V8's sound horrible btw. Especially live.

#25 superdelphinus

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 21:57

Probably some crazy bargaining move about something completely unrelated that no one else has even thought about yet

#26 rhukkas

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:04

http://www.pitpass.c...says-Ecclestone

Whether that's true or not I don't know.... but if it's true I can imagine the Mercedes board being absolutely furious. Just sunk 100m into Hamilton and god knows what into an r&d program for the new 1.6 turbo. Hamilton may be a RedBull driver in 2014.

Sounds like Ferrari might be struggling for power too. If they knew they had a fast engine I don't think Luca would be saying "it don't sound good."

#27 Fondmetal

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:07

Probably some crazy bargaining move about something completely unrelated that no one else has even thought about yet



Simply a work of art..

http://www.youtube.c...;feature=fvwrel

http://www.youtube.c...p;v=bxTBfU9mIfg

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related



#28 gm914

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:08

Another stupid idea from Bernie?

Is it just me, or does anyone else think he's spouting all this nonsense lately in the hopes his bribery case will be dismissed on the grounds of insanity?

#29 exogenesis1203

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:10

If that happens then this will be the biggest bait and switch in history to Hamilton.

#30 GAZF1nut

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:17

Wow,just wow. I hope for Hamilton's sake this isn't true.

#31 rhukkas

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:17

If this happens it's nothing short of a disaster to Mercedes and Hamilton who could be looking at a loss running into the 100s of millions. And that kinda loss has 'quit the sport' potential.

#32 Fastcake

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:19

Probably some crazy bargaining move about something completely unrelated that no one else has even thought about yet


Bravo. Have an internet cookie. Bernie uses the media constantly to say what he means, what he doesn't mean, and something completely different :p

#33 Atreiu

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:20

Nothing is more overrated in racing than engine noise.

#34 Bruce

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:21

Rubbish. If Mercedes REALLY think that they're somehow going to Leapfrog teams because of a new engine formula they're most likely wrong - in fact, the greatest parity is achieved when there are NO rule changes...

And - as if anything Bernie says means anything, anyway...

#35 rhukkas

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:24

Nothing is more overrated in racing than engine noise.


Noise creates a real physical connection between you and the vehicle and the driver. it's a communication. The sound waves pulsate through your body, it's like a freakin super heartbeat.

next you'll be saying nothing more is overrated in music than sound.



#36 Massa_f1

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:26

Rubbish. If Mercedes REALLY think that they're somehow going to Leapfrog teams because of a new engine formula they're most likely wrong - in fact, the greatest parity is achieved when there are NO rule changes...

And - as if anything Bernie says means anything, anyway...


Where has this media speculation come from. Everyone seems to think Mercedes will dominate in 2014 because of these engines.

As i said in another thread. Engines should stay as they are now. They are fine the grid is every close. Why disadvantage the private teams with this new rule. They wont hang around long if they become 3-7 seconds of the pace like in the olden days.

#37 Tommorris747

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:27

Bravo. Have an internet cookie. Bernie uses the media constantly to say what he means, what he doesn't mean, and something completely different :p

The first time Ecclestone talked about the engines he said that their power needed to be increased and it was. The next time he talked about the new engines he said that they would not run on electric power in the pitlane and then this function was cancelled. Now he is saying that they will not be introduced...

Edited by Tommorris747, 28 September 2012 - 22:28.


#38 gm914

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:28

This is all about building drama for the upcoming MercedesGP reality tv show.

XIX has realized they can't fill 22 episodes a year with just Lewis, Nicole and happy tweets, so they're bringing in the Merc Board, AMG Engineers, Todt and Bernie as filler.

Rosberg will feature in a product-placement role. Mostly hair products.



#39 rhukkas

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:29

Rubbish. If Mercedes REALLY think that they're somehow going to Leapfrog teams because of a new engine formula they're most likely wrong - in fact, the greatest parity is achieved when there are NO rule changes...

And - as if anything Bernie says means anything, anyway...


... Why on earth would Mercedes want to achieve parity? They want to gain a measurable advantage. The 2014 regulations gives them that opportunity. It may not turn out to be the case, but Mercedes are in a prime position to take advantage.

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#40 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:29

Did we not already have the 'does not sound right' discussion about these engines last season? And were it not the teams complaining then?

:cool:

#41 Mandzipop

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:34

The topics have been merged as they are principally discussing the same issue.

#42 Massa_f1

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:35

This is all about building drama for the upcoming MercedesGP reality tv show.

XIX has realized they can't fill 22 episodes a year with just Lewis, Nicole and happy tweets, so they're bringing in the Merc Board, AMG Engineers, Todt and Bernie as filler.

Rosberg will feature in a product-placement role. Mostly hair products.



:rotfl: Cheers for that. Made me laugh .

#43 Bruce

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:36

... Why on earth would Mercedes want to achieve parity? They want to gain a measurable advantage. The 2014 regulations gives them that opportunity. It may not turn out to be the case, but Mercedes are in a prime position to take advantage.


Um - yes - of course Mercedes will have a giant advantage, because we all know that Ferrari and Renault won't even think about doing nothing about THEIR new engines until January of 2014 - and by then - Bwahahahahah! it will be too LATE!

:lol:

I really don't know where people get this idea that somehow the new engine rule will be such a huge benefit to Mercedes that it will catapult them to competitiveness - and the idea has only gotten more legs since Hamilton's signing. Note to Hamilton and Mercedes fans - Renault and ferrari are working on engines too...


#44 Massa_f1

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:39

Um - yes - of course Mercedes will have a giant advantage, because we all know that Ferrari and Renault won't even think about doing nothing about THEIR new engines until January of 2014 - and by then - Bwahahahahah! it will be too LATE!

:lol:

I really don't know where people get this idea that somehow the new engine rule will be such a huge benefit to Mercedes that it will catapult them to competitiveness - and the idea has only gotten more legs since Hamilton's signing. Note to Hamilton and Mercedes fans - Renault and ferrari are working on engines too...


You would not think so the way the media are going on.

Edited by Massa_f1, 28 September 2012 - 22:40.


#45 KavB

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:41

A big regret in my life is not attending a Grand Prix live when V10s were still in use. The current engines sounded good live, but V10s would have been on another planet!

Whenever I watch races on TV, I always feel there is no true sense of speed, partly due to the engines sounding quite flat. I constantly watch pre-2006 videos and think wow... Why can't F1 cars always sound like this!

#46 ali.unal

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:43

Then what was this all about: :confused:

Bernie Ecclestone reportedly happy with sound of V6 engine

GMM - Bernie Ecclestone is now happier with the prospect of F1's V6 engine rules switch.

Until now, the F1 chief executive's main worry has been that the new 1.6 litre turbo units will not sound as good as the current normally-aspirated V8s.

But just ahead of last weekend's Italian grand prix, he travelled to Maranello to meet with Ferrari president Luca di Montezemolo as well as FIA president Jean Todt.

While at the famous Italian team's HQ, Ecclestone visited Ferrari's engine department and heard a live V6 running on the dynomometer, Germany's Auto Motor und Sport reports.

"Even Bernie Ecclestone was pursuaded by the sound of the engine," the report read.



#47 Tommorris747

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:45

Then what was this all about: :confused:

Bernie Ecclestone reportedly happy with sound of V6 engine

That is like the opposite of what he is saying now. However, there are no quotes from Ecclestone in the article you link to so maybe it was a misunderstanding?

#48 superdelphinus

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:50

It is actually quite amazing that this broke today of all days, and that he mentioned Ferrari so explicitly. What is the wiley old bastard up to

#49 ali.unal

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:52

That is like the opposite of what he is saying now. However, there are no quotes from Ecclestone in the article you link to so maybe it was a misunderstanding?

This was my first reaction, but seeing Auto Motor und Sport, I kinda tend to believe.

Edited by ali.unal, 28 September 2012 - 22:55.


#50 Slowinfastout

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Posted 28 September 2012 - 22:56

It's just something Ecclestone needs to put out there and somehow that will be used to get something else out of the FIA on the Concorde negos..

'Ok, I'll let you have the crap sounding engines with your beloved 'green' tags, but in return I want <insert Bernie demand here>'

A couple of weeks ago Ecclestone was saying: 'the teams should write the regulations'.. now he's saying: 'Todt will change..'

Progress. Massive egos clashing and slowly edging closer to an agreement.

Edited by Slowinfastout, 28 September 2012 - 22:58.