Jump to content


Photo

Bankrupt country plans F1 track


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
53 replies to this topic

#1 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,367 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:09

And just when you thought the world couldn't get any sillier this story appears.

What the hell? Is it April 1 again already?

Advertisement

#2 Alx09

Alx09
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:11

What the heck.

Perhaps their reasoning is that it will get back lost tourists now after all the stuff they've gone through. But how can you unlock money when you don't have any?

Edited by Alx09, 01 October 2012 - 17:32.


#3 WatchingF1since4yearsold

WatchingF1since4yearsold
  • Member

  • 250 posts
  • Joined: February 12

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:12

lol, well that's one way to try and boost the economy I guess?

#4 PEW

PEW
  • Member

  • 1,060 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:13

My thoughts- precisely; how on earth can anyone in Greece think of going down that road ?

#5 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 5,951 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:15

Seems like a perfectly legit use of money for a country that can barely pay it's employees wages.

They should sign an agreement with Bernie immediately. Now that'll make them some money.

#6 Les

Les
  • Member

  • 2,059 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:15

The circuit looks like an excuse to fit a standard length F1 track into as small a space as possible. Literally a bonkers idea on every level.

https://www.facebook...0...e=1

#7 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:16

Maybe they think UE will eventually pay for it

#8 ayali

ayali
  • Member

  • 729 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:18

Pretty old story really
Nice fuel on the fire for those with an anti Europa agenda

will never happen

#9 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:19

The circuit looks like an excuse to fit a standard length F1 track into as small a space as possible. Literally a bonkers idea on every level.

https://www.facebook...0...e=1


Layout reminnds me Hungaroring's

#10 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 1,927 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:21

Eh! Just because Greece is going through a crisis doesnt mean it shouldn't be visionary.

I notice by your avatar you are a rally fan? Would you then have objected when the East African Safari rally was first introduced into the WRC?..Yes yes it were a long time ago,but you cant stand still. And who knows,maybe F1 in Greece one way of extricating it out of the mire it currently is in.

#11 Andrew Hope

Andrew Hope
  • Writer of 2013's Best Opening Post

  • 6,756 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:25

Just theoretically, if a country with zero money develops plans for an F1 race, wouldn't technically any single human being with more money (i.e. any money at all) stand a better chance at hosting that race? For instance, I just found a quarter and not one but two pennies lying under some socks on the ground next to my bed, and I've always thought the patio in my backyard would make a great spot for an F1 race. I could grill up some pitas on the BBQ and have the Greek Grand Prix right here in Toronto. Does anyone have Bernie's number?

#12 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,367 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:47

Eh! Just because Greece is going through a crisis doesnt mean it shouldn't be visionary.

I notice by your avatar you are a rally fan? Would you then have objected when the East African Safari rally was first introduced into the WRC?..Yes yes it were a long time ago,but you cant stand still. And who knows,maybe F1 in Greece one way of extricating it out of the mire it currently is in.

Not a very valid comparison though.

1) The Safari Rally was long established before the WRC was even thought of.
2) It probably cost a few thousand pounds to run, which was covered by entry fees, but brought in a lot more cash into the economies of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania
3) Rallies don't require a multi million pound investment to build a flashy high-tech track with lighting up roofs etc
4) Rallies don't have to pay Bernie Ecclestone $50 million a year.

Which is why I have no criticism of Greece having the Acropolis Rally in the WRC.



#13 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 1,944 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:48

Just theoretically, if a country with zero money develops plans for an F1 race, wouldn't technically any single human being with more money (i.e. any money at all) stand a better chance at hosting that race? For instance, I just found a quarter and not one but two pennies lying under some socks on the ground next to my bed, and I've always thought the patio in my backyard would make a great spot for an F1 race. I could grill up some pitas on the BBQ and have the Greek Grand Prix right here in Toronto. Does anyone have Bernie's number?


No, because the company actually building the track will probably have some collateral behind the other 2/3rds of the cost of constructing the track.

Greece investing their way out of a recession isn't the worst idea in the world.....as long as they do it right, a money sucking F1 track probably isn't the wisest of moves.

But they wont get any growth by not investing at all.

#14 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 17:48

Increasing government spending is a strategy to get out of recession, but surely there must've been more sane projects than that.

#15 ElDictatore

ElDictatore
  • Member

  • 784 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:00

I think most are forgetting that USA is hosting a grand-prix this year and is trying to host another one. So it is possible. Although it would be pretty difficult for Greece. Not a team or a driver from that country. Could be a case like Istanbul. 30Mios aren't that much either for building and hosting a Grand-Prix track.

#16 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,367 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:06

I think most are forgetting that USA is hosting a grand-prix this year and is trying to host another one.

And has the USA received massive amounts of cash from Germany and other EU countries? And are there demonstrators on the streets of Washington against the austerity cuts?

#17 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 2,299 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:06

You need to understand that bankruption can happens at wealth level anyone wants.

Bankruption only mean you don't want to pay. US or even the richest country in the world can be bankrupt tomorrow. Greece is a rich country - compared to many in the world- they don't produce to have a 30000 euros salary hence all debt they have but certainly produce wealth to have a 15000 euro salary. They just don't want to live with a 15000 Euro salary.


And has the USA received massive amounts of cash from Germany and other EU countries? And are there demonstrators on the streets of Washington against the austerity cuts?


No because US is still living in massive amounts of credit, kicking the can down the road, at which we should add the financial speculation by the FED aka Quantitative Easing, when deleveraging starts - the huge amount of credit start to disappear from economy that pay thousands of jobs- things will be much worse but the sin is today and in last decade. Same for UK btw...



Edited by AlexS, 01 October 2012 - 18:13.


#18 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 1,944 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:07

I think most are forgetting that USA is hosting a grand-prix this year and is trying to host another one. So it is possible. Although it would be pretty difficult for Greece. Not a team or a driver from that country. Could be a case like Istanbul. 30Mios aren't that much either for building and hosting a Grand-Prix track.


The USA isn't bankrupt, yet.
And the total cost for building the track is €94million. The Greek government is only investing 1/3 of that.

It probably wont go ahead though, Bernie wont want to sign a contract for another European race any time soon.

Edited by johnmhinds, 01 October 2012 - 18:11.


#19 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 1,944 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:10

And has the USA received massive amounts of cash from Germany and other EU countries? And are there demonstrators on the streets of Washington against the austerity cuts?


Wouldn't those countries be happy to see investment and the potential for some growth in a region so they can get that money back?

Advertisement

#20 Frozen

Frozen
  • Member

  • 51 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:13

It's not a greek decision really... When they have no money, when they are spending way more than they collect and when their only source of liquidity is the EU succesive bailouts then the decision whether the circuit is going to be built or not is solely a EU decision. So a flame anti-greek, anti-EU propaganda is going on. Or if the greeks are really saying that then it's just air: they won't do anything because they simple can't take decisions right now apart from staying in the euro or not.

Edited by Frozen, 01 October 2012 - 18:15.


#21 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 11,367 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:14

Wouldn't those countries be happy to see investment and the potential for some growth in a region so they can get that money back?

Yes, of course, but as Germany, France, Korea, Spain, UK and others have discovered, F1 doesn't make any money for the hosts. Only for Bernie and CVC.

#22 Fatgadget

Fatgadget
  • Member

  • 1,927 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:19

Yes, of course, but as Germany, France, Korea, Spain, UK and others have discovered, F1 doesn't make any money for the hosts. Only for Bernie and CVC.

That to me sounds like a throw away comment. Care to back it up with solid evidence?

#23 Fastcake

Fastcake
  • Member

  • 5,951 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:19

Just theoretically, if a country with zero money develops plans for an F1 race, wouldn't technically any single human being with more money (i.e. any money at all) stand a better chance at hosting that race? For instance, I just found a quarter and not one but two pennies lying under some socks on the ground next to my bed, and I've always thought the patio in my backyard would make a great spot for an F1 race. I could grill up some pitas on the BBQ and have the Greek Grand Prix right here in Toronto. Does anyone have Bernie's number?


Stick a Sheikh in front of your name, make up an oil company based in the Cayman Isles, invite exactly two guests and then promise Bernie millions of other peoples money. He'll sign you up as the Bahrain Grand Prix Mk II, except with two more spectators.

No, because the company actually building the track will probably have some collateral behind the other 2/3rds of the cost of constructing the track.

Greece investing their way out of a recession isn't the worst idea in the world.....as long as they do it right, a money sucking F1 track probably isn't the wisest of moves.

But they wont get any growth by not investing at all.


While there is some proof that Grands Prix help the local economy - excepting Abu Dhabi as that's just a vanity project - there are far better uses of that money for a country as troubled as Greece. Perhaps they could invest it in something that actually provides jobs more than four days a year.

#24 johnmhinds

johnmhinds
  • Member

  • 1,944 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:27

Yes, of course, but as Germany, France, Korea, Spain, UK and others have discovered, F1 doesn't make any money for the hosts. Only for Bernie and CVC.


While they won't make money of the F1 race itself, the promotion the race gives to a circuit and the region around it almost always ends up being a net positive.

Silverstone for example is now making millions in profit every year. They aren't pulling the millions they pay to Bernie out of thin air.

Edited by johnmhinds, 01 October 2012 - 18:27.


#25 Alx09

Alx09
  • Member

  • 1,278 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:46

anti-EU propaganda is going on.

It's not propaganda but reasonable to be anti-EU. It has failed and has brought nothing but huge costs for the country I live in (Sweden). Thank god we voted no to the euro. Abolish centralization of power, it will always be misused by those in power. Decentralize, decentralize.

Trading agreements can be done without EU, as it was before.

To go back on topic, I think there are plenty of other ways this money could be used to promote growth. I can't really see Greece fitting into the calendar either, with all these new races coming, unless they pay some insane amounts of money, which they don't have.

Edited by Alx09, 01 October 2012 - 18:50.


#26 DarthWillie

DarthWillie
  • Member

  • 1,663 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 01 October 2012 - 18:59

You guys don't understand, it isn't for the greek GP, it's a track for the people who pay the money, so for the european GP :rotfl:

#27 BigCHrome

BigCHrome
  • Member

  • 4,049 posts
  • Joined: July 10

Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:00

Wow the layout is great. Too bad it will never happen.

#28 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 7,424 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:33

Bonkers!

#29 ferenc_k

ferenc_k
  • Member

  • 37 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:37

Layout reminnds me Hungaroring's


Exactly, half of it more than similar to the Hungaroring

Edited by ferenc_k, 01 October 2012 - 19:38.


#30 rijole1

rijole1
  • Member

  • 631 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:44

It's not propaganda but reasonable to be anti-EU. It has failed and has brought nothing but huge costs for the country I live in (Sweden). Thank god we voted no to the euro. Abolish centralization of power, it will always be misused by those in power. Decentralize, decentralize.

Trading agreements can be done without EU, as it was before.

To go back on topic, I think there are plenty of other ways this money could be used to promote growth. I can't really see Greece fitting into the calendar either, with all these new races coming, unless they pay some insane amounts of money, which they don't have.


Agree with you. I'm living in Sweden too.
But I think we in Sweden do not suffer economically so much compared to for example Finland. Have relatives there.
They have euro and are really p***ed of because they have to pay extra money to EU, because some countries don't look after their economy.
I guess Finland prefers to have a GP in Finland - not to pay so that Greece can have one.

So it doesn't look ok when Greece wants to invest in luxury projects like F1 GP.
Especially when there are too many examples of GP:s that haven't been economic successtories.
Isn't there anything else in Greece they can invest in and earn money with? :confused:

Edited by rijole1, 01 October 2012 - 20:38.


#31 anbeck

anbeck
  • Member

  • 2,021 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:46

Yeah, that's silly.

But then again, the Nürburgring was built under the same circumstances ;)

#32 jeze

jeze
  • Member

  • 2,973 posts
  • Joined: September 08

Posted 01 October 2012 - 19:56

And has the USA received massive amounts of cash from Germany and other EU countries? And are there demonstrators on the streets of Washington against the austerity cuts?

The tyranny of that government now allow citizens to be detained indefinitely without trial these days...


F1 is in USA, China and Bahrain... not a happy sight.



#33 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 1,713 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:13

Ridiculous plan of course. Greece should focus on paying back the EU and rebuilding their country. Those 30 million could be used to create jobs, not to build a race track in a country which, apart from WRC, has absolutely no motorsport history. They should take a look at their neighbours in Turkey and see what's become of Istanbul Park. Empty grandstands for six years before being dropped from the calendar.

#34 King Six

King Six
  • Member

  • 3,230 posts
  • Joined: September 09

Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:33

Not a very valid comparison though.

1) The Safari Rally was long established before the WRC was even thought of.
2) It probably cost a few thousand pounds to run, which was covered by entry fees, but brought in a lot more cash into the economies of Kenya, Uganda and Tanzania
3) Rallies don't require a multi million pound investment to build a flashy high-tech track with lighting up roofs etc
4) Rallies don't have to pay Bernie Ecclestone $50 million a year.

Which is why I have no criticism of Greece having the Acropolis Rally in the WRC.

Exactly, rally is in no way as ridiculous as F1 is. Most sports aren't actually. Bar perhaps hosting a major Football championship or the Olympics

#35 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,117 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:39

Ridiculous plan of course. Greece should focus on paying back the EU and rebuilding their country. Those 30 million could be used to create jobs, not to build a race track in a country which, apart from WRC, has absolutely no motorsport history. They should take a look at their neighbours in Turkey and see what's become of Istanbul Park. Empty grandstands for six years before being dropped from the calendar.


Not that I think this is or should happen, but the building of a racetrack would create jobs.

#36 scheivlak

scheivlak
  • Member

  • 11,114 posts
  • Joined: August 01

Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:44

Not that I think this is or should happen, but the building of a racetrack would create jobs.

And breaking it all up after a failed bid too :)

#37 kar

kar
  • Member

  • 10,307 posts
  • Joined: January 06

Posted 01 October 2012 - 20:56

I think it's quite interesting that German tax payers will be funding a Greek Racing track while German racing tracks have to shutdown their operations.

#38 TimRTC

TimRTC
  • Member

  • 741 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 01 October 2012 - 22:27

They should make sure it is homogelated for Truck Racing as the FIA European Truck Racing Championship seems to be the only series to race on many of these more obscure European tracks (Smolensk Ring anyone?). That and maybe a couple of GT races are probably all the action this circuit would be likely to see anyway. F1 is looking to move into new markets to boost its appeal to audiences and sponsors, Greece is hardly going to fit into that scheme.

#39 aditya-now

aditya-now
  • Member

  • 6,849 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 01 October 2012 - 22:29

And just when you thought the world couldn't get any sillier this story appears.

What the hell? Is it April 1 again already?



One of the most absurd thing I've ever heard. They never had a proper Formula driver as well, and if you have ever driven in Athens you know that driving standards there are the worst in the world - in fact some years ago Athens had the highest death toll from car accidents per capita in the whole world...


Advertisement

#40 Mila

Mila
  • Member

  • 5,680 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 01 October 2012 - 23:31

. . . the Nürburgring was built under the same circumstances ;)


with some variations, of course, but, yes, point well taken.

#41 kyriakos75

kyriakos75
  • Member

  • 433 posts
  • Joined: August 04

Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:51

One of the most absurd thing I've ever heard. They never had a proper Formula driver as well, and if you have ever driven in Athens you know that driving standards there are the worst in the world - in fact some years ago Athens had the highest death toll from car accidents per capita in the whole world...


It is true that Greece has a problematic road safety record but you'd better check your facts.... Although as we already know from the MS threads checking facts is not one of your strengths...


Anyway, according to the articles I read in greek sites the circuit, which has been in the planning phase for many many years, will create 497 jobs during its construction phase. It will be capable of hosting a F1 race but will not be built specifically for F1. The plan is to host various national and international motorsport races and other events, and according to the investors it will be profitable in the long term, regardless of whether or not a F1 race is hosted.

Personally I have serious doubts it will happen.

#42 NotSoSilentBob

NotSoSilentBob
  • Member

  • 929 posts
  • Joined: January 12

Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:23

I read this story and just shook my head. Greece wants to have their cake, and eat it too.

Disgusting given how much money's already being plowed into saving their fat hairy arses. :down:

#43 Ralliart

Ralliart
  • Member

  • 669 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 02 October 2012 - 04:32

The fact that a circuit has been under discussion for many, many years says a lot. Frankly, I'm scratching my head why one of the greatest tourist meccas in mankind feels they need to construct a motorsports facility let alone what they're going to use in the way of money. 500 people will have temporary employment? So what? They need to generate permanent employment for millions. I don't see how constructing a circuit will in any way alleviate their problem. Speaking of sports, isn't Greece still paying off the debt they incurred by holding an Olympic Games?

#44 Andrew Hope

Andrew Hope
  • Writer of 2013's Best Opening Post

  • 6,756 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:38

I read this story and just shook my head. Greece wants to have their cake, and eat it too.

Disgusting given how much money's already being plowed into saving their fat hairy arses. :down:


To be fair, it's a little-known fact of cake making that if your cake is shaped like boobs, you really can have your cake and eat tit too.

#45 PARAZAR

PARAZAR
  • Member

  • 1,064 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:33

Maybe people should be more informed when insinuating that the Greeks are lazy. As for the track I doubt the project will go forward.

http://www.guardian....e-working-hours

Also more info on countries ranked according to external debt.

http://www.gfmag.com...l#axzz287fANo1e

Edited by PARAZAR, 02 October 2012 - 07:01.


#46 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,464 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:42

The fact that a circuit has been under discussion for many, many years says a lot. Frankly, I'm scratching my head why one of the greatest tourist meccas in mankind feels they need to construct a motorsports facility let alone what they're going to use in the way of money. 500 people will have temporary employment? So what? They need to generate permanent employment for millions. I don't see how constructing a circuit will in any way alleviate their problem. Speaking of sports, isn't Greece still paying off the debt they incurred by holding an Olympic Games?


:up:

That is the rational way of putting what I considered my response to be: bwahahahahahahaha!

#47 korzeniow

korzeniow
  • Member

  • 5,671 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:54

The fact that a circuit has been under discussion for many, many years says a lot. Frankly, I'm scratching my head why one of the greatest tourist meccas in mankind feels they need to construct a motorsports facility let alone what they're going to use in the way of money. 500 people will have temporary employment? So what? They need to generate permanent employment for millions. I don't see how constructing a circuit will in any way alleviate their problem. Speaking of sports, isn't Greece still paying off the debt they incurred by holding an Olympic Games?


Since you mentioned Olympics: http://www.businessi...tos-2012-8?op=1

#48 XAXIXAX

XAXIXAX
  • Member

  • 445 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 02 October 2012 - 06:55

I think it's quite interesting that German tax payers will be funding a Greek Racing track while German racing tracks have to shutdown their operations.

Don't be afraid.
German goverment, and therefore their citizens, are being financed at zero interest thanks to all these countries, who btw are being looted, and the only ones funding other countries debt are the bankers, not these poor German tax payers... I don't buy that BS anymore
:down:

#49 Biggun

Biggun
  • New Member

  • 26 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:15

No just no

Civil servants haven't been paid for months, if there is 30m lying around use it to pay the civil servants



#50 Vitesse2

Vitesse2
  • Nostalgia Forum Moderator

  • 23,728 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 02 October 2012 - 08:16

Maybe people should be more informed when insinuating that the Greeks are lazy. As for the track I doubt the project will go forward.

http://www.guardian....e-working-hours

The productivity figure is much more relevant in that context. Even The Guardian had to admit that and added a graph afterwards.