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McLaren and Red Bull have pivoting front wing?


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#201 Jazza

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 09:19

A couple of laser pointers that shoot out of each side of the nose/middle of front wing towards the inside of the end plates; plus a few marking on the surface of the plates. That will show the amount of flex in the wings if there is a camera to monitor it. It would only need to be watched for one lap to see if the car is ok. (and yes this would be far more complex to actually set up, but the idea could work)

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#202 bluffalo

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:15

Uhh, are you guys serious? There are very easy ways to measure movement of the wings. The problem is that it's too intrusive and it's really not worth it. The teams already have a ton of stuff they need to test and do in practice sessions, there is no time to be bothering with pointless ideas like this.

The rules just needs to be clear, so everyone is on a level playing field.


They are clear. They are the same rules for every team.
It's part of the game.

nevermind the fake numbers in these examples...
The rules may state that the minimum weight of a car is 1000 kilos. That means a team COULD make their car weigh 7000 kilos if they want, but why would they? They are there to go fast, so they try and find the best way to be as quick (light) as possible and still pass any test to be deemed legal.
A continuation of that example, the rules say the wings may deflect 10 mm at 100 kg of force. The teams COULD make the wings out of reinforced concrete that flexes .001 mm at 500 kg of force if they want, but why would they? They are there to go fast, so they try and find the best way to be as quick as possible and still pass any test to be deemed legal.

Edited by bluffalo, 06 October 2012 - 10:22.


#203 baddog

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 10:34

Ill repeat my long held position here.. if teams make wings/body parts that flex or move in ways that are against the rules but which will, due to clever tricks, pass the tests designed to enforce the rules (The test is NOT the rule, and it never was) then they are absolutely cheating, and have merely never got proveably caught. I cannot think of a major team which has not done this many many times in recent years.

Designing a device to circumvent the defined tests is in the same class of cheating as any other hidden technical cheating. If I were the FIA I would make test changes unannounced, might clean things up a bit after the first couple of teams spend weekends watching everyone else race.

#204 Jazza

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:13

Ill repeat my long held position here.. if teams make wings/body parts that flex or move in ways that are against the rules but which will, due to clever tricks, pass the tests designed to enforce the rules (The test is NOT the rule, and it never was) then they are absolutely cheating, and have merely never got proveably caught. I cannot think of a major team which has not done this many many times in recent years.

Designing a device to circumvent the defined tests is in the same class of cheating as any other hidden technical cheating. If I were the FIA I would make test changes unannounced, might clean things up a bit after the first couple of teams spend weekends watching everyone else race.


:up:

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#205 tarmac

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:21

EBD boy :up:

He was only 0,3s off last year. His car is very legal like Schumis back in the day

#206 BillBald

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 15:52

Based on their performances in Suzuka quali, I think that McLaren stopped their front wings from pivoting, and Red Bull made their wings pivot a bit less, enough to pass the test.

Of course that's just a guess.



#207 Cool Beans

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:27

That dolphin head thing is the only realistic way to do it, otherwise you measure against the track surface and you introduce all sorts of variables that are too fickle to be reliable.

So the teams already have the technology. Now all that's needed is for FIA to be able to mandate a test lap when a team is suspected of cheating the rule. Flexibility semantics loophole closed :up:

Edited by beancounter, 06 October 2012 - 16:28.


#208 JimiKart

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 16:47

Based on their performances in Suzuka quali, I think that McLaren stopped their front wings from pivoting, and Red Bull made their wings pivot a bit less, enough to pass the test.

Of course that's just a guess.


I guess the same, there was too much notice for them not to change the wing before Japan - I'd also guess RB has a wider array of Flexi/Pivotwings to choose from than does Mac, hence their better position.