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NASCAR Talladega weekend OFFICIAL


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#251 Magoo

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 07:22

It really is a joke. The drivers think its a joke, the fans who want to see legitimate racing think its a joke. Take the damn plates off and let them do 220mph laps around the track. The cars are safe enough for it these days.



The purpose of the +/- 200 mph speed limit is to keep the cars out of the stands.

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#252 montoyasminion

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 14:08

Yes, I know that the restrictor plates are a result of Bobby Allison flying into the fence. But this isn't 1988. The cars don't take off when they turn around anymore. Is an extra 20 or 30 mph, really going to produce enough lift to make these cars fly? The only thing thats going to make those cars fly is a freak accident, which can already happen even with the plates. We've got the BK-Edwards crash to prove that. Hell, wouldn't bunching them up increase the risk of it happening?

#253 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 14:43

200 seems like more of a mental/emotional number than a scientific one.

#254 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 16:25

The wreck was on the ABC national news and they talked about what Dale Jr. said.

The cars are pretty safe but one problem is the thinner tubing that holds the rear panel together. I have seen that tubing come out of the cars multiple times. I would hate to see a section go through a drivers window or into the crowd.

I think I remember reading that teens worried forcing that rear bumper for slam drafting. And Nash car actually Mandy did they use weaker tubes in the bumpers because of that

#255 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 16:29

iPhone autocorrect, stroke, or booze?

#256 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 16:36

Android speech recognition

#257 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 16:59

Yes, I know that the restrictor plates are a result of Bobby Allison flying into the fence. But this isn't 1988. The cars don't take off when they turn around anymore. Is an extra 20 or 30 mph, really going to produce enough lift to make these cars fly? The only thing thats going to make those cars fly is a freak accident, which can already happen even with the plates. We've got the BK-Edwards crash to prove that. Hell, wouldn't bunching them up increase the risk of it happening?

Assuming a simple square relationship, which of course is a simplification, cars at 230 mph will produce 32% more lift compared to cars at 200 mph. That can easily be more than enough to cross the threshold where you have enough lift to fly rather than merely float precariously on the ground.

#258 Atreiu

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 18:05

Assuming a simple square relationship, which of course is a simplification, cars at 230 mph will produce 32% more lift compared to cars at 200 mph. That can easily be more than enough to cross the threshold where you have enough lift to fly rather than merely float precariously on the ground.



And what about energy? How much more energy does it have at 230 against 200?

#259 Wuzak

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 20:46

And what about energy? How much more energy does it have at 230 against 200?


Still 32% more (energy is also proportional to the square of speed).

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#260 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 21:26

And what about energy? How much more energy does it have at 230 against 200?

Essentially a plate motor is entirely different from any other motors.
Why not just sleeve the motor down in ci, or even switch to the unrestricted nationwide motors for the 4 races where they need to cut speed?



#261 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 22:32

Still 32% more (energy is also proportional to the square of speed).



Wouldn't it be more like 15% Since it's 30 out of 200 not 30 out of 100? And I assume F=ma would be at work here.

#262 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 22:58

Wouldn't it be more like 15% Since it's 30 out of 200 not 30 out of 100? And I assume F=ma would be at work here.

Yes, F=ma is at work, like it always is. However, the more direct equation is KE = 0.5*m*v^2.

#263 Atreiu

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 13:27

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/103292

If at these speeds Earnhardt didn't get away unhurt, imagine at 220+.

And perhaps there is more serious work to be done for safethy.

#264 Magoo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:22

200 seems like more of a mental/emotional number than a scientific one.


Yes, I am sure everyone realizes that 200 is an arbitrary value and that 198.9 or 201.69 would be equally suitable. Do you have a number in mind?

#265 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:27

I dunno, what's the number where the odds dramatically climb? I assume the major concern is cars in the catch-fence.

#266 OfficeLinebacker

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:54

I dunno, what's the number where the odds dramatically climb? I assume the major concern is cars in the catch-fence.

Pretty sure it's a constant curve. It's not like there's an inflection point.

#267 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 14:59

There might be, aero is weird.

On the other hand keeping speeds low increases the pack which must exponentially increase your chances of having an incident that leads to flight. So, what do you do?

#268 f1seb

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 15:56

Yes, I know that the restrictor plates are a result of Bobby Allison flying into the fence. But this isn't 1988. The cars don't take off when they turn around anymore. Is an extra 20 or 30 mph, really going to produce enough lift to make these cars fly? The only thing thats going to make those cars fly is a freak accident, which can already happen even with the plates. We've got the BK-Edwards crash to prove that. Hell, wouldn't bunching them up increase the risk of it happening?


You mean cars don't do this anymore?



#269 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 15:59

But if you watch the slow-mo, Carl's car is coming back down when it gets nerfed by Newman and re-launched. Aero-wise that went as intended.

#270 Juablo

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 16:11

What about Newman at Talladega or Keselowski at Atlanta? I don't know how much of a part the wing played in those incidents though.




I've read that they're taking a lot of weight out of the 2013 cars, wouldn't that mean it'd be easier for the cars to get air?

Edited by Juablo, 11 October 2012 - 16:12.


#271 John B

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 18:31

Add up the total number of cars that have had 180+ impacts here since 1988 (which should serve to underline the absurdity) and it's clear NASCAR has been exceedingly fortunate not to have a death of a driver or fans here.

With no real car modifications evident seems the track itself (banking, width) would be something to address, but my sense is the show value trumps everything. If there has to be a plate in the Chase would rather see Daytona as it's a bit more of a track, although the winner list there also includes a lot of wild cards (Bayne, Ragan et al...)

#272 artista

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 20:30

What about Newman at Talladega or Keselowski at Atlanta? I don't know how much of a part the wing played in those incidents though.




I've read that they're taking a lot of weight out of the 2013 cars, wouldn't that mean it'd be easier for the cars to get air?

Not necessarily. For the same, let's call it 'aerodynamics' and size, less weight would make it easier for the cars to fly, but if there is any other change, for example, in the chassis shape, the resulting car might even be less flight-prone

#273 Wuzak

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 23:09

How about a chicane or set of esses on the back straight at Talladega?

High speed ones (relatively speaking, of course). That should break up the tow, reduce momentum and reduce overall lap speeds.

#274 Risil

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Posted 11 October 2012 - 23:26

Well that would be one way of getting a road course into the Chase.

But seriously, the number of times that was mooted at Michigan for the Indycars/Champcars, without ever happening (although they did get round to actually building a dogleg, iirc), suggests that it really would be a last resort.

#275 Lemnpiper

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:03

How about a chicane or set of esses on the back straight at Talladega?

High speed ones (relatively speaking, of course). That should break up the tow, reduce momentum and reduce overall lap speeds.



Was it Trenton or Nazareth that in it's final form had a dogleg in the backstretch? Could that even be done at Talledega ?

I know they use the backstretch chicane for the motorcycles at the Daytona200 to keep the speeds down.


Paul

#276 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:13

Well that would be one way of getting a road course into the Chase.

But seriously, the number of times that was mooted at Michigan for the Indycars/Champcars, without ever happening (although they did get round to actually building a dogleg, iirc), suggests that it really would be a last resort.

Ptretty much, if it gets to that point might as well level the facility and start over.