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Vettel reprimanded for Alonso incident [split]


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#51 wonk123

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:36

I remember reading that Vettel looked very scared right after qualy.

Yeah he definately looked worried. I thought at the time it must have been a weight problem, especially after he was looking over the shoulder of the FIA guy to look at the laptop


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#52 Goron3

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:36

Right, now that would explain why Seb seemed so nervous and downbeat during the weigh in. Brundle mentioned he was looking at the sector timings too so there we have it.

A bit odd that the team didn't tell him earlier on that Alonso was so close to him though surely? Were they close together for their entire lap or did Vettel slow down in sector 3?

Either way, given it cost Alonso a couple of tenths (which would've put him ahead of Grosjean I think), it will almost certainly be a penalty, meaning potentially we have Koba on the front row with Webber!



#53 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:39

It could have been a red mist moment when he saw Alonso on the mirrors. After the fact he realized what he just did.

#54 Kvothe

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:39

I'm sure Michael also ran to the stewards to complain about Lewis.


Not just about the blocking ;)

#55 F.M.

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:40

Right, now that would explain why Seb seemed so nervous and downbeat during the weigh in. Brundle mentioned he was looking at the sector timings too so there we have it.

A bit odd that the team didn't tell him earlier on that Alonso was so close to him though surely? Were they close together for their entire lap or did Vettel slow down in sector 3?

Either way, given it cost Alonso a couple of tenths (which would've put him ahead of Grosjean I think), it will almost certainly be a penalty, meaning potentially we have Koba on the front row with Webber!

Alonso did 17.7 in S3 of his Q3 lap, his fastest of the whole Q, while the fastest S3 time of the whole qualifying was a 17.6! Considering Alonso already lost time in S3 because of his lower speed on the back straight due to the yellow flags in the turn leading up to this straight, he might have lost half a few hundreds of a seconds at max.

Edited by F.M., 06 October 2012 - 07:41.


#56 tarmac

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:41

Alonso lifted too much on S2 compared to Koba

#57 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:41

Alonso did 17.7 in S3 of his Q3 lap, his fastest of the whole Q, while the fastest S3 time of the whole qualifying was a 17.6! Considering Alonso already lost time in S3 because of his lower speed on the back straight due to the yellow flags in the turn leading up to this straight, he might have lost half a tenth at max.


It does not really matter how much Alonso lost. If Vettel did impede Alonso, he broke the rules.

#58 fatd

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:42

Man, I really wish we could see the actual onboard before the decision is made.


Yeah exactly. It's like discussing something we don't even know and just making opinion based on our own pictures and perspectives (and perhaps wishful thinkings).

#59 Goron3

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:43

Alonso did 17.7 in S3 of his Q3 lap, his fastest of the whole Q, while the fastest S3 time of the whole qualifying was a 17.6! Considering Alonso already lost time in S3 because of his lower speed on the back straight due to the yellow flags in the turn leading up to this straight, he might have lost half a few hundreds of a seconds at max.


Ah sorry, someone mentioned that he went 2 tenths faster in Q1..apologies.

Ofc, it's not about whether it's his fastest sector time, it's about if it caused him to slow down. They'll be busy looking at the telemetry, just as they were with Koba.

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#60 Watkins74

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:44

Man, I really wish we could see the actual onboard before the decision is made.

I agree. Of course clear evidence doesn't always lead to clear thinking. :D

#61 F.M.

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:46

It does not really matter how much Alonso lost. If Vettel did impede Alonso, he broke the rules.

Stewards look at the timing data. If it can't be shown that Alonso clearly lost time, Vettel won't get penalised.

#62 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:48

Stewards look at the timing data. If it can't be shown that Alonso clearly lost time, Vettel won't get penalised.


Yes. And they will look at the exact sector where Alonso and Vettel met. The time from Sector 1 is pretty much irrelevant. If Vettel was running slow on the racing line he is toast.

#63 F.M.

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:49

Yes. And they will look at the exact sector where Alonso and Vettel met. The time from Sector 1 is pretty much irrelevant. If Vettel was running slow on the racing line he is toast.

:confused:

#64 F.M.

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:51

Flavio Briatore‏@BriatoreFlavio

Vettel rischia di essere penalizzato di 3 posizioni


:rotfl:

#65 Bartel

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:52

He got docked 3 places?

#66 Hanzo

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:52

Alonso just finished talking with the stewards. There should be a decision soon.



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#67 kosmos

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:53

No need to write stupid things like Ferrari International Assistance, if Vettel blocked Alonso, it will be easy to see in the telemetry, if he did nothing, he will get zero penalties, no need for any conspiracy but some people can't help it.

#68 study

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:53

He got docked 3 places?


Why 3? Why is it sometimes 5, sometimes 10

#69 GAZF1nut

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:54

If he does get penalised then it should make for an interesting race tomorrow.

#70 Bartel

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:55

Thats what i thought, i was asking about that flavio comment

#71 Cenotaph

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:55

Vergne was penalised with 3 places for something that obviously had bigger consequences for Senna. We haven't seen the incident but it would be hard to explain why Vettel would be punished more than that.

#72 dau

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:55

Why 3? Why is it sometimes 5, sometimes 10

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I don't think i ever saw 10 for blocking though.

#73 kosmos

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:55

Thats what i thought, i was asking about that flavio comment



Flavio said "may". It's his opinion.

#74 Bartel

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:56

Its always been 5 places why all of a sudden 3?

#75 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:56

I think 5 spots was the standard penalty over the last decade

#76 GAZF1nut

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:56

Why 3? Why is it sometimes 5, sometimes 10

Vergne got docked 3 places for blocking Senna. The inconsistency is annoying though.

#77 Watkins74

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:56

Thats what i thought, i was asking about that flavio comment

The translation I got was "Vettel may be penalized 3 positions". I don't get why the poster thought that was so funny. :confused:

#78 F.M.

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:57

The translation I got was "Vettel may be penalized 3 positions". I don't get why the poster thought that was so funny. :confused:

Because it was Flavio Briatore :p

#79 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 07:58

I guess Flavio is jumping to the conclusion given the penalty Vegne got for the same thing

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#80 w00dy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:01

If they can't catch Newey with his flexing wings, breaking steering wheel column, then they should punish Vettel. Poetic justice.

#81 FizzyJerk

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:12

Flavio Briatore‏@BriatoreFlavio

Vettel rischia di essere penalizzato di 3 posizioni


:rotfl:


Coming from an Italian, the actual translation is:

Finger Boy risks of being penalised by 3 positions


#82 wonk123

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:12

If they can't catch Newey with his flexing wings, breaking steering wheel column, then they should punish Vettel. Poetic justice.


BAD TASTE!!

#83 bourbon

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:18

Presumably the incident they are looking at. I don't know where else Vettel could go...off track?

https://twitter.com/...7511168/photo/1

#84 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:20

Presumably the incident they are looking at. I don't know where else Vettel could go...off track?

https://twitter.com/...7511168/photo/1


He just didn't need to slow down so much while staying with half of his car in the racing line.

Edited by fabr68, 06 October 2012 - 08:21.


#85 Cyanide

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:22

Presumably the incident they are looking at. I don't know where else Vettel could go...off track?

https://twitter.com/...7511168/photo/1


He was almost on the racing line. Should've taken the inside, not the outside.

#86 Hanzo

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:22

Just waiting... just waiting... :lol:






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#87 Cenotaph

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:22

was going to post that, quite different incident in nature from Vergne's with Senna. So I imagine Vettel slowed down too much after the yellow and Alonso caught up to him but he didn't really impede Alonso, although that definitely is a distraction for anyone on a fast lap. Maybe a reprimand and fine like Pic in FP3 would suffice?

#88 prty

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:22

Presumably the incident they are looking at. I don't know where else Vettel could go...off track?

https://twitter.com/...7511168/photo/1


Or in the other part of the track, and slow down so Alonso can pass him before the chicane, for example? That picture is pretty incriminating actually.


#89 bourbon

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:23

He just didn't need to slow down so much while staying with half of his car in the racing line.


He was done - had backed off his lap. So now you are telling me that the drivers that back off their laps need to continue up to speed for the sake of the drivers behind - when they are trying to preserve what is left of their tyres for the race?

Since when has that ever even been a conscious thought before today?

I can't discuss this.

#90 fabr68

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:24

Yep. You can't stay anywhere near the racing line if you are aborting your run when everyone behind is on their flying laps. This is like a pedestrian walking in the highway.

Edited by fabr68, 06 October 2012 - 08:25.


#91 Kelateboy

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:24

was going to post that, quite different incident in nature from Vergne's with Senna. So I imagine Vettel slowed down too much after the yellow and Alonso caught up to him but he didn't really impede Alonso, although that definitely is a distraction for anyone on a fast lap. Maybe a reprimand and fine like Pic in FP3 would suffice?

How many reprimand has Vettel gotten this season?

#92 prty

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:26

He was done - had backed off his lap. So now you are telling me that the drivers that back off their laps need to continue up to speed for the sake of the drivers behind - when they are trying to preserve what is left of their tyres for the race?


So you are telling that drivers in a hot lap should have no problem with encountering slow cars in the racing line as they have to preserve their tyres and should be comprehensive with them? :lol:

#93 Albert Quintana

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:26

He was done - had backed off his lap. So now you are telling me that the drivers that back off their laps need to continue up to speed for the sake of the drivers behind - when they are trying to preserve what is left of their tyres for the race?

Since when has that ever even been a conscious thought before today?

I can't discuss this.



How long have you been watching F1? it is the driver's responsability not to impede in any way cars on their fast lap. As mentioned above, they can go out of the racing lane. Otherwise, just be fast enough as to avoid being close to a chasing car.



#94 Watkins74

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:27

This sure is taking a long time.

#95 ultimategold

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:27

He was done - had backed off his lap. So now you are telling me that the drivers that back off their laps need to continue up to speed for the sake of the drivers behind - when they are trying to preserve what is left of their tyres for the race?

Since when has that ever even been a conscious thought before today?

I can't discuss this.


You can slow down and preserve your tyres as long as you don't impede another driver. Vettel is clearly forcing Alono to take the less optimal line through the chicane. Penalty.

#96 LiJu914

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:28

He just didn't need to slow down so much while staying with half of his car in the racing line.


If he impeded ALO then he has to be penalised, but t i think it´s normal to slow down that much...especially since Pirelli joined F1 and every fast-lap reduces the longevity of the tyres noticeably.

But i won´t ever understand, why the teams regularly f+++ up and forget to warn their drivers earlier that another driver is approaching.

#97 Goron3

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:28

He was done - had backed off his lap. So now you are telling me that the drivers that back off their laps need to continue up to speed for the sake of the drivers behind - when they are trying to preserve what is left of their tyres for the race?

Since when has that ever even been a conscious thought before today?

I can't discuss this.


This has been the case in Formula One for as long as I can remember. Either stay ahead of them or get out of the way. Simple as. Same rules for everyone. including vettel.

#98 emby1999

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:28

He was done - had backed off his lap. So now you are telling me that the drivers that back off their laps need to continue up to speed for the sake of the drivers behind - when they are trying to preserve what is left of their tyres for the race?

Since when has that ever even been a conscious thought before today?

I can't discuss this.



Are you serious? It does not matter if his lap is complete, drivers must not impede another driver, whether its outlap or inlap. Its really quite simple.

#99 dau

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:31

How many reprimand has Vettel gotten this season?

One, for an incident with Senna at Canada FP1.


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#100 Cenotaph

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 08:32

Do not forget Malaysia 2008, there is jurisdiction on this, the question here is if Vettel forced Alonso to take a less than ideal line, that picture doesn't suggest that as Vettel's car is apparently already past the turn-in point, but with the video would be easier to assess.