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Has the time come for Webber to start racing for Vettel's championship?


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#251 joshb

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Posted 05 November 2012 - 16:06

Except when it comes to racing his boyfriend Alonso. How he bent over for him yesterday was an utter joke. He had a piece of the insight line, only thing he had to do was to let the car roll and block the entry for Alonso. No way for Alonso to get past or to come back get him as the corner next has no room for more than 1 car.

No matter the circumstances, Webber will never help Vettel. Bitterness runs deep in him.


He did get past quite easily (annoyingly)- he overlapped him before they hit the brakes despite having to get out of the throttle midway down the straight. The only surprise is that on cold tyres, no-one hit eachother in the breaking zone. Alonso locked up, Mark could easily have ran into Alonso
I don't thnik he's bitter. I'm surprised he wouldn't help him- it makes him look better if he loses to someone with more titles whilst they were paired together.

As for his stop- i feel they should have got him to move over/be passed, build a gap to grosjean whilst following Seb, then pit. Like Seb did. Those few extra laps worked for Seb but were the death knell for Mark

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#252 WhatOh

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:10

Pretty poor when a team is willing to hamper one car's race for the sake of the other.


What punishment (if that is the right word) could RBR give Webber if he disobeys the team orders? What if he did n't pull into the pits when they asked him to?

#253 jjcale

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:22

What punishment (if that is the right word) could RBR give Webber if he disobeys the team orders? What if he did n't pull into the pits when they asked him to?


His rear suspension might fail about 18 laps into the next race...

#254 DarthWillie

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 21:27

Probably KERS failure :cat:

#255 LoudHoward

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Posted 06 November 2012 - 22:27

I don't understand why they didn't clearly order Webber let Vettel past and then not pit either. That was the only correct thing to do with Vettel coming from behind with a different tactic and faster pace and Webber out of the title fight. A definite low point for RBR in the race.


Because the "public" are stupid. There would be a backlash, they've had to PR themselves into a corner because of the insane response by the media, and it would seem a large portion of the fanbase, to any team order over the years. It's painful to see, I agree they should've just manned up and done it, but I can see why they didn't.

Mark should've taken the hint. Mark shouldn't have even needed the hint. It gets glossed over by english speaking media who he plays very well (as all the top guys do I'm sure) but I don't think he has any moral high ground in this relationship.

#256 Eff One 2002

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 00:46

What punishment (if that is the right word) could RBR give Webber if he disobeys the team orders? What if he did n't pull into the pits when they asked him to?


Give him an unreliable car prone to failures, especially in the KERs department. Oh wait.... :rotfl:

#257 GreenMachine

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:09

Because the "public" are stupid. There would be a backlash, they've had to PR themselves into a corner because of the insane response by the media, and it would seem a large portion of the fanbase, to any team order over the years. It's painful to see, I agree they should've just manned up and done it, but I can see why they didn't.

Mark should've taken the hint. Mark shouldn't have even needed the hint. It gets glossed over by english speaking media who he plays very well (as all the top guys do I'm sure) but I don't think he has any moral high ground in this relationship.


Let's keep things in perspective. The instruction was 'IF (Seb) gets a run, let him pass'. Not, 'slow down, move over, and resume racing when Seb is past you ...' No way did Mark impede Seb at that time, as far as I can see Seb just paced himself towards the back of Mark because (I assume) he had been told Mark would be pitted to get him out of the way. He did not get close enough to make a move, and therefore had not been held up.

Would Mark have raced him and made Seb lose time? We don't know, and never will. We can have opinions, but that is all.

Dropping Mark out behind that traffic was bad strategy, and cost the team WCC points. :down:

#258 boldhakka

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:20

The question now is whether he'll pit so obligingly next time he's in this situation. I think he'll ask some difficult questions before he decides to enter the pit lane.

#259 Atreiu

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:08

What reason would he have to not pit in a smiliar situation? To conquer the all so amazing 5th place at the cost of the WDC bid?
He's way smarter than that.

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#260 dau

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:12

Let's keep things in perspective. The instruction was 'IF (Seb) gets a run, let him pass'. Not, 'slow down, move over, and resume racing when Seb is past you ...' No way did Mark impede Seb at that time, as far as I can see Seb just paced himself towards the back of Mark because (I assume) he had been told Mark would be pitted to get him out of the way. He did not get close enough to make a move, and therefore had not been held up.

Would Mark have raced him and made Seb lose time? We don't know, and never will. We can have opinions, but that is all.

Dropping Mark out behind that traffic was bad strategy, and cost the team WCC points. :down:

Here's Vettel's times and gap to Mark:


Lap VET WEB +/- Gap
28 1:47.167 1:47.645 -0.478 +2.462
29 1:47.978 1:49.797 -1.819 +0.643
30 1:47.724 1:49.204 PIT -1.480 -0.837
31 1:46.755 2:05.435 (MN) -18.680 -19.517
32 1:47.099 1:46.959 +0.140 -19.377
33 1:46.690 1:47.330 -0.640 -20.017


Well, i don't know if Vettel paced himself because he knew Mark was going to pit anyway, but to me it looks like he lost almost 2s in two laps behind his team mate. Now, intra-team fights are great and all, but if you were in charge of that team, would you really let them continue like that? Dropping Mark behind the traffic was obviously bad for his race, but practically unavoidable anyway: Grosjean was on newer tyres and gaining on him, cutting a 20s gap back to 13s when Webber pitted. There was no way Webber could've pulled that back. And if he had continued like that for another 2 laps or so, he would've risked coming out behind Kobayashi and maybe even Schumacher and Massa, all on new tyres and lapping about 2s quicker.

#261 H2H

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:18

Here's Vettel's times and gap to Mark:


Lap VET WEB +/- Gap
28 1:47.167 1:47.645 -0.478 +2.462
29 1:47.978 1:49.797 -1.819 +0.643
30 1:47.724 1:49.204 PIT -1.480 -0.837
31 1:46.755 2:05.435 (MN) -18.680 -19.517
32 1:47.099 1:46.959 +0.140 -19.377
33 1:46.690 1:47.330 -0.640 -20.017


Well, i don't know if Vettel paced himself because he knew Mark was going to pit anyway, but to me it looks like he lost almost 2s in two laps behind his team mate. Now, intra-team fights are great and all, but if you were in charge of that team, would you really let them continue like that? Dropping Mark behind the traffic was obviously bad for his race, but practically unavoidable anyway: Grosjean was on newer tyres and gaining on him, cutting a 20s gap back to 13s when Webber pitted. There was no way Webber could've pulled that back. And if he had continued like that for another 2 laps or so, he would've risked coming out behind Kobayashi and maybe even Schumacher and Massa, all on new tyres and lapping about 2s quicker.


As almost usually a nice post based on facts and I have not much to add. :up:

Edited by H2H, 07 November 2012 - 12:18.


#262 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 15:43

:| I was going to write that.

Anyway Mark can still play a decisive role in the fight for both titles. He can only up his game in Austin and his run in Quali is actually good.

Not to be rude, but Mark Webber is useless as far as "helping out the team" is concerned. He seriously lacks common sense to be able to comprehend the matter presented to him. He has an ego problem, but lacks in subtle racing nuances to match it.

For eg...
-in 2010, Vettel was at fault for running into Webber at Turkey. But, to think that he had a very WIDE open space on the right to avoid it... thus failed in his reaction time to steer Right, like we saw Raikkonen do with Hamilton in Suzuka 12. So, he wanted to be macho, and Vettel & RBR paid the price by losing a 1-2!!. If a driver is acting funny on my left, with me having 2 lanes of space on my right without losing speed, I'd move to the right. Common Sense. Also, moving right would have given him the racing line!! But nope, i'd rather my race is ruined then to give space.

-He clashed with Hamilton @ Singapore 2010, but again, was very lucky to continue. Hamilton's fault, as well as Webber's
-But then, Webber tries to muscle his way in a similar manner @ Abu Dhabi 12... not once, but twice!! It was the most ridiculous attempt at overtaking I have seen from a driver in a Top Team.

-Webber trying to be irritatingly opportunistic later caused him to crash his car with Grosjean. Really, he is behind... from onboard one can see Webber has all the time in the world to analyze his next move....
option 1- to brake, slow down & pass the crashing bunch carefully. Everyone had slowed down in any case because it was a corner, so enough time to avoid it.
option 2- full throttle corner exit, close your eyes and hope for dear lord that none of the 3, yes, 3 cars in front would be thrown in his path. This attempted move of his was just wow, and deserved what he got.

-In all that crazy driving of Webber in a SUPERIOR car, he acts cheeky with 4 drivers namely Maldonado, Massa, Grosjean & Perez every intelligent guy like Vettel, Alonso & Raikkonen would be extra careful of...

-He also throws away points that would have made RedBull constructors champions in Abu Dhabi. What's worse, he was acting king kong on track by not letting Vettel pass, I don't know why!! Even Kimi let Massa by In China 2008, & he's a frikking World Champion. RBR had to roll their eyes and order him to Box.

-Lastly, to be of any help to your team & teammate... a driver needs to be good enough to be in front with a superior car, not go backwards getting thrashed by an inferior Lotus & Ferrari.

How can he be of any help, not that Vettel is asking him any coz Vettel must feel the same... if he constantly gets thrashed by Alonso & Raikkonen in a inferior car ALL SEASON, and gets beaten on track by a boy starting from the pit lane compared to his 2nd grid slot.

Webber to help Vettel, no thanks... he's not capable of it... as Abu Dhabi 2010 had already proved. AD 2012 was just added proof.

Edited by BackOnTop, 07 November 2012 - 15:52.


#263 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 15:58

Here's Vettel's times and gap to Mark:


Lap VET WEB +/- Gap
28 1:47.167 1:47.645 -0.478 +2.462
29 1:47.978 1:49.797 -1.819 +0.643
30 1:47.724 1:49.204 PIT -1.480 -0.837
31 1:46.755 2:05.435 (MN) -18.680 -19.517
32 1:47.099 1:46.959 +0.140 -19.377
33 1:46.690 1:47.330 -0.640 -20.017


Well, i don't know if Vettel paced himself because he knew Mark was going to pit anyway, but to me it looks like he lost almost 2s in two laps behind his team mate. Now, intra-team fights are great and all, but if you were in charge of that team, would you really let them continue like that? Dropping Mark behind the traffic was obviously bad for his race, but practically unavoidable anyway: Grosjean was on newer tyres and gaining on him, cutting a 20s gap back to 13s when Webber pitted. There was no way Webber could've pulled that back. And if he had continued like that for another 2 laps or so, he would've risked coming out behind Kobayashi and maybe even Schumacher and Massa, all on new tyres and lapping about 2s quicker.

To add to that, Kimi Raikkonen came out after pitstop in front of Vettel with a margin of 2 Seconds!!!

I am not complaining because Vettel could have made life difficult for Kimi... but you only need to replace Kimi with Alonso to realize the foolish games Webber was trying to play in his own head.

Edited by BackOnTop, 07 November 2012 - 15:58.


#264 boldhakka

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 16:03

Mark probably feels that he had done enough in 2010 to ask for and receive team orders in his favor. Remember, Seb hadn't led the WDC standings at all until the last race, and Mark had done so for a while. So when he publicly and privately asked for the teams support only to be rebuffed, he probably now feels that he doesn't owe anything to the team on that front since they weren't willing to do the same for him.

#265 LiJu914

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 16:06

Mark probably feels that he had done enough in 2010 to ask for and receive team orders in his favor. Remember, Seb hadn't led the WDC standings at all until the last race, and Mark had done so for a while. So when he publicly and privately asked for the teams support only to be rebuffed, he probably now feels that he doesn't owe anything to the team on that front since they weren't willing to do the same for him.


Then somebody should tell him, that there´s a "tiny" difference between 2010 & 2012.

#266 BackOnTop

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 16:12

Mark probably feels that he had done enough in 2010 to ask for and receive team orders in his favor. Remember, Seb hadn't led the WDC standings at all until the last race, and Mark had done so for a while. So when he publicly and privately asked for the teams support only to be rebuffed, he probably now feels that he doesn't owe anything to the team on that front since they weren't willing to do the same for him.

Maybe... but he must be joking!! Even if he got Vettel to help in 2010... it would only mean Alonso would have been WDC, considering Webber got beat by Alonso in any case. In that case, you must be joking too considering you say Webber deserved "team orders".

And how, or when was Vettel suppose to help him????

Vettel started thrashing Webber consistently after Hungary... so I am assuming he felt Vettel should move over with half the season remaining. Really!!! Also, Webber would have ruined RedBull & Adrian Newey's cars if the team heeded Webber's wishes as he is just not good enough, as seen from Korea 2010 onwards- and continuing.

If we remove Vettel from RedBull, then Alonso would be WDC 2010 & Button would be WDC 2011. In 2012, either Alonso or Raikkonen would be World Champions. So I am assuming AD, CH & the entire team knew who their ace pilot is, and he promptly delivered.

Edited by BackOnTop, 07 November 2012 - 16:18.


#267 GreenMachine

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 20:41

Here's Vettel's times and gap to Mark:


Lap VET WEB +/- Gap
28 1:47.167 1:47.645 -0.478 +2.462
29 1:47.978 1:49.797 -1.819 +0.643
30 1:47.724 1:49.204 PIT -1.480 -0.837
31 1:46.755 2:05.435 (MN) -18.680 -19.517
32 1:47.099 1:46.959 +0.140 -19.377
33 1:46.690 1:47.330 -0.640 -20.017

I
Well, i don't know if Vettel paced himself because he knew Mark was going to pit anyway, but to me it looks like he lost almost 2s in two laps behind his team mate. Now, intra-team fights are great and all, but if you were in charge of that team, would you really let them continue like that? Dropping Mark behind the traffic was obviously bad for his race, but practically unavoidable anyway: Grosjean was on newer tyres and gaining on him, cutting a 20s gap back to 13s when Webber pitted. There was no way Webber could've pulled that back. And if he had continued like that for another 2 laps or so, he would've risked coming out behind Kobayashi and maybe even Schumacher and Massa, all on new tyres and lapping about 2s quicker.


thanks dau, that is some very interesting data, it certainly wasn't the impression I got from watching the telecast. Where do you find this information?

I guess that Lap 29 involved lapped traffic since both drivers dropped big time there, Mark more so than Seb. Did he pit on lap 30, or 31? Do they cross the timing mark on their way into the pits? I am just trying to understand whether the difference on lap 30 is Mark slowing to enter the pits, or something else. Do you know if Lap 28 is a representation of the difference between their times generally, that is, was Mark generally losing half a second a lap or so to Seb?

I take your point about him losing two seconds behind his teammate, however did he actually try a move? If he did, and say, Mark chopped him, then I agree with you entirely. If, on the other hand, Seb it was content to hang in there, then the stick that Mark is getting is quite unwarranted in my view. Letting him through as he attempts an overtake is one thing, I am not sure what people actually want to competitive racing drivers to do in this situation. Even going back to Turkey, that infamous incident, Mark let him through, the accident was a result of a driving error by Seb. Perhaps my memory is tricking me, but I am sure there have been other occasions where Mark has let him by when he makes a move. However, I can also recall occasions when they have raced for position amid speculation from the commentators about team orders.

#268 joshb

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 20:41

To add to that, Kimi Raikkonen came out after pitstop in front of Vettel with a margin of 2 Seconds!!!

I am not complaining because Vettel could have made life difficult for Kimi... but you only need to replace Kimi with Alonso to realize the foolish games Webber was trying to play in his own head.


Seb briefly had the gap down to just over a second when Kimi came out but even if Kimi had come out behind Seb, he would've passed him i think- he was a good half second faster and I'm not sure Seb (knowing he would probably need to stop again) would've fought him too hard having got out of jail once already.
Didn't realise 2 laps behind Mark/Maldonado/Perez cost him that time though

#269 dau

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 23:20

thanks dau, that is some very interesting data, it certainly wasn't the impression I got from watching the telecast. Where do you find this information?

I guess that Lap 29 involved lapped traffic since both drivers dropped big time there, Mark more so than Seb. Did he pit on lap 30, or 31? Do they cross the timing mark on their way into the pits? I am just trying to understand whether the difference on lap 30 is Mark slowing to enter the pits, or something else. Do you know if Lap 28 is a representation of the difference between their times generally, that is, was Mark generally losing half a second a lap or so to Seb?

I take your point about him losing two seconds behind his teammate, however did he actually try a move? If he did, and say, Mark chopped him, then I agree with you entirely. If, on the other hand, Seb it was content to hang in there, then the stick that Mark is getting is quite unwarranted in my view. Letting him through as he attempts an overtake is one thing, I am not sure what people actually want to competitive racing drivers to do in this situation. Even going back to Turkey, that infamous incident, Mark let him through, the accident was a result of a driving error by Seb. Perhaps my memory is tricking me, but I am sure there have been other occasions where Mark has let him by when he makes a move. However, I can also recall occasions when they have raced for position amid speculation from the commentators about team orders.

The data is from this site:

http://en.mclarenf-1.....2=Mark Webber

L30 is Webber's inlap. I have no idea what happened to him on lap 29, but there shouldn't have been any traffic, Perez was 2s ahead at that point. Vettel was about 1s a lap faster when Massa was in front of Mark, but still .3/.4s when they were both in free air - and then he got really close when Webber did that slow lap 29. I would've thought Vettel could use his superior top speed to get past in the DRS zones, but for some reason that didn't work and he lost time. I don't think Webber blocked him or anything, but he obviously didn't want to give away that place for free either and while he's perfectly entitled to do so, the priority for the team should be on the driver who is still fighting for the WDC.

And like i said, i don't think Mark had much of a chance to get out in front of Grosjean anyway. He just wasn't gaining enough time to make up the 4s he needed and his tyres weren't going to get any better. What destroyed Mark's race was not that pit stop, but his atrocious start and the encounter with Maldonado. And the one with Grosjean of course.

#270 Brother Fox

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:03

Not to be rude, but Mark Webber is useless as far as "helping out the team" is concerned. He seriously lacks common sense to be able to comprehend the matter presented to him. He has an ego problem, but lacks in subtle racing nuances to match it.

For eg...
-in 2010, Vettel was at fault for running into Webber at Turkey. But, to think that he had a very WIDE open space on the right to avoid it... thus failed in his reaction time to steer Right, like we saw Raikkonen do with Hamilton in Suzuka 12. So, he wanted to be macho, and Vettel & RBR paid the price by losing a 1-2!!. If a driver is acting funny on my left, with me having 2 lanes of space on my right without losing speed, I'd move to the right. Common Sense. Also, moving right would have given him the racing line!! But nope, i'd rather my race is ruined then to give space.

You're comparing driving on a motorway to F1 racing ..... as valid as if you compare it to football

The post got worse from there

#271 Bartel

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:12

Not to be rude, but Mark Webber is useless as far as "helping out the team" is concerned. He seriously lacks common sense to be able to comprehend the matter presented to him. He has an ego problem, but lacks in subtle racing nuances to match it.

For eg...
-in 2010, Vettel was at fault for running into Webber at Turkey. But, to think that he had a very WIDE open space on the right to avoid it... thus failed in his reaction time to steer Right, like we saw Raikkonen do with Hamilton in Suzuka 12. So, he wanted to be macho, and Vettel & RBR paid the price by losing a 1-2!!. If a driver is acting funny on my left, with me having 2 lanes of space on my right without losing speed, I'd move to the right. Common Sense. Also, moving right would have given him the racing line!! But nope, i'd rather my race is ruined then to give space.

-He clashed with Hamilton @ Singapore 2010, but again, was very lucky to continue. Hamilton's fault, as well as Webber's
-But then, Webber tries to muscle his way in a similar manner @ Abu Dhabi 12... not once, but twice!! It was the most ridiculous attempt at overtaking I have seen from a driver in a Top Team.

-Webber trying to be irritatingly opportunistic later caused him to crash his car with Grosjean. Really, he is behind... from onboard one can see Webber has all the time in the world to analyze his next move....
option 1- to brake, slow down & pass the crashing bunch carefully. Everyone had slowed down in any case because it was a corner, so enough time to avoid it.
option 2- full throttle corner exit, close your eyes and hope for dear lord that none of the 3, yes, 3 cars in front would be thrown in his path. This attempted move of his was just wow, and deserved what he got.

-In all that crazy driving of Webber in a SUPERIOR car, he acts cheeky with 4 drivers namely Maldonado, Massa, Grosjean & Perez every intelligent guy like Vettel, Alonso & Raikkonen would be extra careful of...

-He also throws away points that would have made RedBull constructors champions in Abu Dhabi. What's worse, he was acting king kong on track by not letting Vettel pass, I don't know why!! Even Kimi let Massa by In China 2008, & he's a frikking World Champion. RBR had to roll their eyes and order him to Box.

-Lastly, to be of any help to your team & teammate... a driver needs to be good enough to be in front with a superior car, not go backwards getting thrashed by an inferior Lotus & Ferrari.

How can he be of any help, not that Vettel is asking him any coz Vettel must feel the same... if he constantly gets thrashed by Alonso & Raikkonen in a inferior car ALL SEASON, and gets beaten on track by a boy starting from the pit lane compared to his 2nd grid slot.

Webber to help Vettel, no thanks... he's not capable of it... as Abu Dhabi 2010 had already proved. AD 2012 was just added proof.

You're a clown, don't you think maybe, just maybe, Webber held his line with the knowledge it was his teammate racing next to him? When you race your teammate it has to be clean, Vettel was an absolute idiot that day Webber doesnt have to alter his line to allow Vettel through, you are just blinded by your clear hate for Webber, im not a fan of Webber myself, but to try and say he should have given Vettel a wide birth id utter stupidity. He would have got the shock of his life when Vettel collided with him because he would have expected alot more of crash kid.

#272 BackOnTop

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:14

You're a clown, don't you think maybe, just maybe, Webber held his line with the knowledge it was his teammate racing next to him? When you race your teammate it has to be clean, Vettel was an absolute idiot that day Webber doesnt have to alter his line to allow Vettel through, you are just blinded by your clear hate for Webber, im not a fan of Webber myself, but to try and say he should have given Vettel a wide birth id utter stupidity. He would have got the shock of his life when Vettel collided with him because he would have expected alot more of crash kid.

Yeah, Ok. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Little good that did to Webber in any case, as he ended up 3rd instead of a possible 1st or 2nd!! The point is not whether Vettel etc crashed into him.... but more to the point whether Webber had enough space to avoid such a thing happening from stupid drivers around him.

You guys are really really funny and act so justified in your own opinion that you forget F1 is a dangerous sport, and drivers can lose their lives. Some of the opinion regarding crashes from people like you seem to me that you are playing playstation, and not seeing drivers acting irritatingly tough @ 300Kmp.... and purposely "not trying to avoid" accidents.

Just because safety is better nowadays makes some people like you think it's great for drivers not to try and avoid any mishap or accidents. Mark Webber could have easily avoided Vettel's kamikazi move, and really didn't have to risk his position & be a macho man on road. Just because one driver is at fault, doesn't mean the other driver automatically did the right thing.

Edited by BackOnTop, 08 November 2012 - 05:16.


#273 BackOnTop

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 09:26

Thanks Mr.Edd Straw for pointing out STUPIDITY on track by some drivers who think they are playing video games, and their fans whole heartedly defending the same (see poster above). On top of that, Mark Webber is supposed to be the one most experienced driver... if he does this, then what can the sport expect from new kids. Also, Webber looked like he was hell bent on not securing RedBull their Constructors Championship @ Abu Dhabi and looked like he just wanted to crash at every given opportunity.

Charlie Whiting would do well to sit the drivers down and show them the footage of that moment between Button and Vettel when the circus reconvenes in Texas.

For the race was largely defined by clumsy, disrespectful driving. But Perez wasn't the only one.

Mark Webber was pretty close to the line when he chopped Pastor Maldonado, somehow expecting the Williams to vanish as he headed towards the apex. And while the Australian was guiltless in his eventual retirement, you can see where Felipe Massa was coming from when he complained that Webber should have had a penalty.

http://plus.autospor...s-in-abu-dhabi/


Edited by BackOnTop, 08 November 2012 - 09:32.


#274 wattoroos

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:52

Thanks Mr.Edd Straw for pointing out STUPIDITY on track by some drivers who think they are playing video games, and their fans whole heartedly defending the same (see poster above). On top of that, Mark Webber is supposed to be the one most experienced driver... if he does this, then what can the sport expect from new kids. Also, Webber looked like he was hell bent on not securing RedBull their Constructors Championship @ Abu Dhabi and looked like he just wanted to crash at every given opportunity.

What is with the serious hatred for the guy, most fans except one (you know who I am talking about) accept that he had a terrible race but you are going on like he has done it all season. In the five or so years I've been watching the sport closely, I would say it is probably his worst race I've seen but it's not a recurring theme from him this year unlike other drivers who have been involved in many incidents.

Back on topic, I don't think he will out qualify Vettel in the last two races as he will dig extremely deep due to the championship battle and I cant see Vettel being beaten by Alonso barring any incidents or failures. Also, Webber didn't make it that easy for Alonso in Abu Dhabi if you watch the move, Alonso was heavy on the brakes and just made the corner and that Ferrari has very high speed compared to the RB8 so I really don't think he let him through. That's my 2 cents anyway

#275 paulrobs

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 13:15

The cynic in me thinks that Webber has been driving for Vettel's championship ever since they were paired together at RBR. I'm not trolling here, I genuinely think he's always had the cards stacked against him at RBR and their strategy is always geared to maximise Vettel's chances.

#276 Brother Fox

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 14:07

The point is not whether Vettel etc crashed into him.... but more to the point whether Webber had enough space to avoid such a thing happening from stupid drivers around him.

Happy to defer this to anyone who's actually raced, but conventional wisdom would say you'd stay on your obvious path, so they can anticipate where you'll be


#277 BackOnTop

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 17:32

Happy to defer this to anyone who's actually raced, but conventional wisdom would say you'd stay on your obvious path, so they can anticipate where you'll be

But wouldn't the obvious path be the racing line for the driver with the upper hand in the battle??

Mark obviously chose to ignore it hoping Vettel would get on the grass, and further up... would have to brake on the dirty line to make the corner stick. In all this, Webber failed to see that danger for himself by not taking into account other drivers problems/skids/uncontrollable car.

Leaving a gap by moving on to the racing line instead of continuing to stick his car in the middle of the road in intimidation... surely would get what Webber got in the end.

#278 Skinnyguy

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 18:47

Usually, when you approach a braking zone going down the middle of a track, with someone in front and with the inside line, you KNOW he´s going to move across towards the racing line until he just leaves a car´s width for you. That incident was really weird.

Look at 5:00 in this well known video. Hamilton gets the inside line line by going to the very edge of the track, and as soon as he´s in front, he starts moving across towards the racing line again, and the other guy obviously reacts. Had he kept going straight where he was at 5:07, they would have crashed when Lewis moved right. Would it make any sense to blame Lewis if they did touch in the middle of the straight? I don´t think so.


Edited by Skinnyguy, 08 November 2012 - 19:17.