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Alonso's post Japanese GP Race comments


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#51 gillesthegenius

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:11

The Massa thing is just to try and perpetuate his constant assertion that the car is shyte


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#52 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:11

Nope, watch the video, Button has nothing to do with Alonso's mindless movement.

:up:
I can't find a moment where Button was less than a car width away from Alonso

Alonso just swirled to the left to try and take the most outside line at corner entry, not giving any notice to Kimi already being there

Edited by F.M., 07 October 2012 - 09:12.


#53 ArkZ

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:12

@F.M. "t's not his job to back off and give space to the guys that also want to drive on the outside" lol agree and this is exacly what Alonso also did he was on his line but the turn was right, even more he was trying to give Raikkonen more space, at 0.17, but McLaren forced him to stay where he was, and if Alonso would back of Kimi would crash in his back.

#54 showtime

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:12

That Massa only got P2 because everyone else messed up


That's a blatant lie, at least have the decency of write everything he said and not only what serves your agenda.

#55 Vesuvius

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:14

Alonso's comments :down: He also said Ferrari has had no updates on six races...which is untrue, they have had updates on every race...maybe they haven't worked but still they have had updates. Claiming that Massa shouldn't have second is crap...Massa was second because he was second fastest today, Ferrari is extremely competitive car on race pace and was second fastest today behind Vettel...in Alonso's hands it would have been faster and closer to Vettel.

Blaming Kimi from the incident is pathetic, Kimi had no where to go..it was Alonso who turned on to Kimi not other way around.

#56 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:15

@F.M. "t's not his job to back off and give space to the guys that also want to drive on the outside" lol agree and this is exacly what Alonso also did he was on his line but the turn was right, even more he was trying to give Raikkonen more space, at 0.17, but McLaren forced him to stay where he was, and if Alonso would back of Kimi would crash in his back.

Simply no, watch the replay to see where Button was driving. Alonso had plenty of space when he pushed Kimi wide

#57 Massa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:17

I saw the one on the Spanish TV. The journalist asked him about the performance of the car, basically she said something along the lines of "the car was very competitive, Massa was second". Alonso replied that the car was not competitive given the qualy results, that Massa's position was due to a) people with faster cars making mistakes and b) Massa having driven a fantastic race and compensated for the car's shortfalls.

The funny thing is that the same people who trash Alonso for saying that Massa's position was partly due to luck are the ones who have been repeating for the whole season that Alonso's positions were due to luck.


I think many have not look at this post.

#58 showtime

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:19

I think many have not look at this post.


Why spoil the bashing party?

#59 Konsta

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:20

"I don't understand why Kimi didn't lift off or anything because there was not any room."
Hmm, I wonder if Alonso realizes that his actions and the fact that Kimi ran out of room have some sort of a correlation.

Nevertheless, a classic 1st lap incident, move on. Had it happened between, let's say DiResta and Rosberg, no one would give a damn.

So it is: FA "You always have to leave room except that I don´t have to give room."

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#60 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:20

I think many have not look at this post.

Fact remains that the car was more than fast enough for 2nd place (3rd if Webber would have still been there), which Alonso denies

#61 Wander

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:21

Imo. the incident was a racing incident. Certainly blaming Kimi would be ridiculous as he clearly tried his best to avoid contact.

#62 ViMaMo

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:23

Words taken out of context to slander Alonso.

....He said that Felipe drove a fantastic race he even tweeted "Gran carrera de @Felipe1Massa !! Fantástico podio! Great race by @Felipe1Massa !! Fantastic podium!".
He just said that the car isnt fast enough and that Massa got the podium because of other people like Webber, Grosjean and Perez crashing. ..



-----------------

Anyone who has already looked at Start crash.
Just have a look at 00:17 to 00:18. That Mclaren is moving towards alonso, and Alonso by instinct made a small move to the left thinking he might collide with the mclaren. Racing incident. Why the hell should he lift when he is ahead of Kimi? Wasnt Kimi's fault either.




#63 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:23

So it is: FA "You always have to leave room except that I don´t have to give room."

I think we all misinterpreted Alonso's comment on leaving room.

When he said "You always have to leave room", he meant exactly what he said: "You always have to leave room"

And all of us thinking that this "you" referred to "everyone" :rotfl: :rotfl:

#64 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:24

Yes, Alonso says and admits that Massa drove a good race, but he also says Massa actually had no business being there in 2nd place and it was only because of the mistakes of others and that is not true.


It actually is true. It seems that people would prefer him to pretend otherwise.

#65 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:25

Words taken out of context to slander Alonso.


Fact remains that the car was more than fast enough for 2nd place (3rd if Webber would have still been there), which Alonso denies


Button in the McLaren, Kobayashi in the Sauber, Kimi in the Lotus, no-one was able to threaten Massa

Edited by F.M., 07 October 2012 - 09:25.


#66 BernieEc

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:26

I think many have not look at this post.


Or some have chosen to ignore it since it doesn't serve their argument positively :)

Personally I think it was a racing incident.

The massa statement seems to be him playing down the strengths of the car rather than taken a dig at massa

#67 Mauseri

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:26

It actually is true.

Of course. If Alonso was in the race, Massa would finish behind him. With a team order or without.

#68 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:26

Of course. If Alonso was in the race, Massa would finish behind him. With a team order or without.


Or Webber.

#69 DaddyCool

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:27

How anyone can blame Alonso or Kimi in this typical racing incident is totally beyond me.

#70 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:27

It actually is true. It seems that people would prefer him to pretend otherwise.

Then why weren't Button, Kobayashi, etc. able to put on even a slight threat to Massa once in 2nd place? Let me answer that: Because the car was the 2nd best car today!

#71 swerved

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:27

I think we all misinterpreted Alonso's comment on leaving room.

When he said "You always have to leave room", he meant exactly what he said: "You always have to leave room"

And all of us thinking that this "you" referred to "everyone" :rotfl: :rotfl:



:rotfl: :rotfl:




#72 xman

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:28

Anyone who has already looked at Start crash.
Just have a look at 00:17 to 00:18. That Mclaren is moving towards alonso, and Alonso by instinct made a small move to the left thinking he might collide with the mclaren. Racing incident. Why the hell should he lift when he is ahead of Kimi? Wasnt Kimi's fault either.


Alonso didn't need to lift, he only needed to give room for Kimi, not run him out of track. You can see from Alonso onboard he has no intention of giving any room to Kimi, and paid dearly for that.

Those Alonso quotes "You must always give room" bite him back now :p

#73 SpaMaster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:29

In the first picture look where is Button.. And then look at the second picture where he is... And you will know why Alonso came to the left...

If Alonso wanted to give space to Button who came from 3 m away to 1 m, you would think he would have been even more mindful of Raikkonen who stayed from 5 cm aside to 5 cm aside? Sorry, this has nothing to do with Button, and all to do with Alonso wanting to take the fastest line possible to turn unmindful of who are alongside him. He does take risk now and then, and today it hurt him.

#74 dreamer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:29

He left no space for Kimi so Kimi had nowhere to go. "You always have to leave space" as Alonso himself would say if that happened to him :)
And Kimi didn't "lift" because that's racing. It's a race and they are suposed to race each other. I'm sure Alonso, the pure racer he is, would have done exaclty the same as Kimi.




#75 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:30

Then why weren't Button, Kobayashi, etc. able to put on even a slight threat to Massa once in 2nd place? Let me answer that: Because the car was the 2nd best car today!


Quite possibly. I think Webber and Alonso would have finished ahead of him had the first corner incidents taken place. Without the gearbox penalty, Button may have been able run in a higher position too.

#76 fastdriver

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:30

The Massa thing is just to try and perpetuate his constant assertion that the car is shyte

My sentiments exactly. I really wish someone who feels Alonso is doing an amazing job leading the championship in a sh*t car would actually compile an argument proving so, backed up by some facts or valid points. I just don't get why people say it's a cr@p car. It might have started so beginning of the season but it certainly is not anymore. Massa's result today shows that. He drove perfectly and deserves the 2nd place, but it's not like he had to dig deep and "out-perform the car". The car delivered.

#77 Raifosa

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:31

I think we all misinterpreted Alonso's comment on leaving room.

When he said "You always have to leave room", he meant exactly what he said: "You always have to leave room"

And all of us thinking that this "you" referred to "everyone" :rotfl: :rotfl:

:lol:

#78 Konsta

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:32

Alonso didn't need to lift, he only needed to give room for Kimi, not run him out of track. You can see from Alonso onboard he has no intention of giving any room to Kimi, and paid dearly for that.

Those Alonso quotes "You must always give room" bite him back now :p

The only difference (exaggeration a bit) between how RG went across the field and how FA went across forcing Kimi out of the track was that Kimi was able to control the car and not spin it. To me FA's start was amateurish at best.

#79 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:32

Domenicali is also not happy with Alonso's comments: "Not true that we not developing for some races."

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#80 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:33

This is the Alonso we all know. It's never his fault, always somebody else. This was clearly Alonso's fault. Raikkonen was already close to the edges of the track and Alonso's little manoeuvre forced Kimi on to the grass. Alonso was crying his head off when Vettel forced him off the track at Monza, same situation.

Alonso's a great driver when everything goes his way, but if one thing goes wrong that Fernando doesn't like, it's always somebody else's fault.

#81 showtime

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:34

My sentiments exactly. I really wish someone who feels Alonso is doing an amazing job leading the championship in a sh*t car would actually compile an argument proving so, backed up by some facts or valid points. I just don't get why people say it's a cr@p car. It might have started so beginning of the season but it certainly is not anymore. Massa's result today shows that. He drove perfectly and deserves the 2nd place, but it's not like he had to dig deep and "out-perform the car". The car delivered.


You want facts? Please, do the maths, average grid position. Came back with the result please.

#82 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:34

I think many have not look at this post.

Oh, I think that the problem is that this does not suit their agenda of finding reasons for bashing Alonso :)

#83 ArkZ

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:35

F.M watch this replay
Alonso gave Raikkonen enough space ,he was 4 wheels on the track, and Alonso is moving inside http://www.youtube.c...detailpage#t=3s
Then Button is going outside and forced Alonso to stay there ,it was like domino.



#84 showtime

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:36

Domenicali is also not happy with Alonso's comments: "Not true that we not developing for some races."


I have to agree with you here, he wasn't strictly saying the truth. He should have said "useful upgrades" to be correct.

#85 ForzaGTR

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:37

Alonso is just upset because he knows he lost the WDC today. It's Vettel 3xWDC, it's likely to be 4xWDC next year. I can't see anyone stopping Red Bull and Vettel.

#86 F.M.

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:37

Alonso is just upset because he knows he lost the WDC today. It's Vettel 3xWDC, it's likely to be 4xWDC next year. I can't see anyone stopping Red Bull and Vettel.

Not just upset. He's just in big denial that it's his own fault

#87 tommi34

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:38

F.M watch this replay
Alonso gave Raikkonen enough space ,he was 4 wheels on the track, and Alonso is moving inside http://www.youtube.c...detailpage#t=3s
Then Button is going outside and forced Alonso to stay there ,it was like domino.


Pff... How hard is it to understand that there was always room for a 1 or 2 cars between Alonso and Button?

I think it was a racing incident, but if someone has to blamed, it is definitely Fernando.

About Massa's performance, I thought he did a very similar race with most of Fernandos races this season, great drive maximizing the potential of his car (and needing a bit of luck too, of course, to get podium place.

#88 glorius&victorius

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:39

Fernando had all the space he needed I think.

Posted Image


YOU HAVE TO LEAVE AT ALL TIMES ONE-CAR WIDTH!!!!!!!

#89 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:40

Alonso is just upset because he knows he lost the WDC today. It's Vettel 3xWDC, it's likely to be 4xWDC next year. I can't see anyone stopping Red Bull and Vettel.

Nonsense. Double DRS is banned for next season, so Red Bull's current advantage is gone then. They haven't dominated this season, and the regulations are staying pretty much the same. Vettel's season has been pretty inconsistent as well, no reason to believe he'll have a 2011-like season again.

#90 xman

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:40

F.M watch this replay
Alonso gave Raikkonen enough space ,he was 4 wheels on the track, and Alonso is moving inside http://www.youtube.c...detailpage#t=3s
Then Button is going outside and forced Alonso to stay there ,it was like domino.


Watch this replay from another and earlier angle, it shows Alonso's weaving. No way he gave him enough space, he pushed him wide and was lucky not to crash into Kimi.



#91 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:44

YOU HAVE TO LEAVE AT ALL TIMES ONE-CAR WIDTH!!!!!!!

... as long as the car behind is level with yours, ie, its front wing has to be ahead of your rear tyre. Was Raikkonen's? Because I cannot see from those pics if his front wing was parallel to Alonso's rear wheel or just touching it from behind.

By the way, I agree that it was a racing incident. I also think that only Raikkonen was in a position to avoid it.

#92 Claudiu

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:44

I am very surprised by Fernando's attitude, he was to blame, he is leading the championship without problems and he had everything to lose by being careless and overly aggressive, it's clear Kimi was one wheel on the grass and got nowhere to go.

Fernando should have been patient and the race would have come to him, I am a big fan of him but he was to blame today.

#93 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:45

wow looking at it again on the link xman gave....Alonso was weaving all over the place.
and ffs button didn't push him at all. there were1-2 meters between the cars

alonso did to kimi what grosjean did to schumacher in monaco. the only difference is that grosjean had less room to play with and the car on the inside (ironically, Alonso) actually touched him

#94 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:45

Watch this replay from another and earlier angle, it shows Alonso's weaving. No way he gave him enough space, he pushed him wide and was lucky not to crash into Kimi.

What I see in this clip is Alonso giving Raikkonen space, until he thinks that he has overtaken him and can go further to his left? I don't know, do we have a top view?

Edited by Fontainebleau, 07 October 2012 - 09:46.


#95 ForzaGTR

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:47

Nonsense. Double DRS is banned for next season, so Red Bull's current advantage is gone then. They haven't dominated this season, and the regulations are staying pretty much the same. Vettel's season has been pretty inconsistent as well, no reason to believe he'll have a 2011-like season again.


Many said the blown diffuser ban would stop Red Bull, but they are still the team to beat now. Favourites for both championships again.

I didn't say he had dominated this year or that he will do next year but if he does win 3 WDC in a row is that not evidence enough that he is likely to win a 4th? Ferrari are no fast enough and Mclaren under their current set up lack the consistency to win a championship.



#96 toxicfusion

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:48

Pff... How hard is it to understand that there was always room for a 1 or 2 cars between Alonso and Button?


As they get to the corner Button comes towards Alonso and the racing line.

If Alonso had been in the space that existed on the run down then they'd both ended up moving over because its the ideal turn in point for the corner.



End of the day racing incident. Could it have been avoided? possibly but both drivers could have done it differently.

#97 Niceone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:49

... as long as the car behind is level with yours, ie, its front wing has to be ahead of your rear tyre. Was Raikkonen's? Because I cannot see from those pics if his front wing was parallel to Alonso's rear wheel or just touching it from behind.

By the way, I agree that it was a racing incident. I also think that only Raikkonen was in a position to avoid it.

Actually that other car doesn't have be on same level. Simply..you shouldn't change your driving line when there's no room. IF Kimi had been on inside line and both would have been turning right it would have been different.

#98 F1FAN013

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:51

No space for Kimi. He touched the grass. Alonso just kept coming closer to Kimi's car. It does remind me a little bit of Grosjean and Lewis in Spa.

#99 natureboy

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:55

People forget that Suzuka is pretty narrow, so why Kimi didn't lift off is beyond me. He was never side by side with Alonso and was never going to overtake him.
This isn't Malaysia ffs.

Either Kimi had a brainfart or he's obtaining credits at the Grosjean School of Driving. :lol:

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#100 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:57

... as long as the car behind is level with yours, ie, its front wing has to be ahead of your rear tyre. Was Raikkonen's? Because I cannot see from those pics if his front wing was parallel to Alonso's rear wheel or just touching it from behind.

By the way, I agree that it was a racing incident. I also think that only Raikkonen was in a position to avoid it.

Actually, in this clip you can see that by the time Raikkonen goes off track Alonso has totally gained the position