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Alonso's post Japanese GP Race comments


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#101 dreamer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:57

:rotfl:
Kimi is on the far side of the track, where the hell do you want him to go?



He should have park the car outside the track and let Alonso pass ;)

I would love to see Alonso's reaction if someone else had push him out of the track, the way he pushed Raikkonen.

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#102 choyothe

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:58

F.M watch this replay
Alonso gave Raikkonen enough space ,he was 4 wheels on the track, and Alonso is moving inside http://www.youtube.c...detailpage#t=3s
Then Button is going outside and forced Alonso to stay there ,it was like domino.


Button's intimidation factor must be incredible for him to be over a meter from you to be a valid excuse to push another car off-track on the other side.

#103 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:58

He should have park the car outside the track and let Alonso pass ;)

I would love to see Alonso's reaction if someone else had push him out of the track, the way he pushed Raikkonen.

Why don't you check the video I quoted above before you make such an statement?

#104 Niceone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:59

People forget that Suzuka is pretty narrow, so why Kimi didn't lift off is beyond me. He was never side by side with Alonso and was never going to overtake him.
This isn't Malaysia ffs.

Either Kimi had a brainfart or he's obtaining credits at the Grosjean School of Driving. :lol:

I don't understand how everyone seems to forget that it was Alonso who changed his driving line towards Räikkönen. Without that move there wouldn't have been contact. Also, according to these pictures Alonso could have lifted as well.

#105 dreamer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:59

People forget that Suzuka is pretty narrow, so why Kimi didn't lift off is beyond me.


Because it's racing!!!


#106 dreamer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:00

Why don't you check the video I quoted above before you make such an statement?


I checked it.


#107 Niceone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:02

Because it's racing!!!

Logic of Kimi haters:
If there's no one right on same level with you you can blindly change driving lines

or

You can force others off track if you're partly ahead of them.

----

These people must think that what Rosberg did at Bahrain was perfectly ok..

Edited by Niceone, 07 October 2012 - 10:04.


#108 Wander

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:03

Actually, in this clip you can see that by the time Raikkonen goes off track Alonso has totally gained the position


Yes, because Kimi obviously had to lift at that point and he was trying to avoid contact. Didn't quite succeed.

#109 Torsion

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:03

People forget that Suzuka is pretty narrow, so why Kimi didn't lift off is beyond me. He was never side by side with Alonso and was never going to overtake him.
This isn't Malaysia ffs.

Either Kimi had a brainfart or he's obtaining credits at the Grosjean School of Driving. :lol:


May be nando should not have run Kimi out of road - considering its so narrow as you say?



#110 MonacoMaster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:04

I think we all misinterpreted Alonso's comment on leaving room.

When he said "You always have to leave room", he meant exactly what he said: "You always have to leave room"

And all of us thinking that this "you" referred to "everyone" :rotfl: :rotfl:

Nice one. :lol:

#111 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:05

Logic of Kimi haters:
If there's no one right on same level with you you can blindly change driving lines

or

You can force others off track if you're partly ahead of them.

So, according to you, if somebody thinks that the incident wasn't Alonso's fault, then that person is a "Kimi hater"... That sounds an even worse logic than the one you described above.

#112 Wander

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:06

I don't think it was anyone's fault.

#113 Avastrol

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:06

Initially it was Fernando doing the huge squeeze on Kimi. It was during this time that there were 2 car widths available to his right.

The pictures don't show it, but the overhead shot () shows that as Fernando was readying to move back to the right again, Jenson moves a bit left, narrowing this earlier 2 car width to 0.

It was a decision that led to a racing incident, nothing Kimi could've done to avoid it except to lift or to run out to the grass further. He had his left rear on the dirt even, but it's no reason to lift if you think you can make it.

#114 Niceone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:07

So, according to you, if somebody thinks that the incident wasn't Alonso's fault, then that person is a "Kimi hater"... That sounds an even worse logic than the one you described above.

Well that's the most logical assumption. I can't think of any other reason to make that kind of claims when you can see those pictures and videos

Edited by Niceone, 07 October 2012 - 10:07.


#115 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:07

Yes, because Kimi obviously had to lift at that point and he was trying to avoid contact. Didn't quite succeed.

Excuse me? Are you just saying that Raikkonen failed to lift enough? Because that sounds as if you agree that he indeed was in a position in which he had to lift, having been fully overtaken by Alonso.

#116 Headspin

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:08

... as long as the car behind is level with yours, ie, its front wing has to be ahead of your rear tyre. Was Raikkonen's? Because I cannot see from those pics if his front wing was parallel to Alonso's rear wheel or just touching it from behind.

By the way, I agree that it was a racing incident. I also think that only Raikkonen was in a position to avoid it.


you're just as delusional as your hero if you really think it was kimis fault.

What a sad little hypocrite that Alonso is. But it's nothing new, always been.

#117 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:08

Well that's the most logical assumption. I can't think any other reason to make that kind of claims when you can see those pictures and videos

That is your problem, not the problem of those who see those videos and reach a different conclusion from yours.

#118 MightyMoose

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:09

If the quality of posting doesn't improve in this thread, the thread will be terminated.

Plenty of posts have already been deleted, if you can't discuss in a civil manner, I suggest you turn off the PC/MAC and go for a walk till you are able to be adults.

Enough of the personal attacks, and general trolling.

#119 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:10

nvm

Edited by Fontainebleau, 07 October 2012 - 10:10.


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#120 Niceone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:10

That is your problem, not the problem of those who see those videos and reach a different conclusion from yours.

Yes..like I said before there are people who honestly think that Canada 2008 pitlane incident was caused by Räikkönen. I can't help if some people make delusional conclusions without any logical arguments.

#121 Peter3hg

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:12

Actually, in this clip you can see that by the time Raikkonen goes off track Alonso has totally gained the position


Not sure what you are trying to prove. Clearly he hadn't fully gained the position or they wouldn't have touched and if Alonso did move over because he thought he was clean past then it was his mistake.

#122 Oho

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:19

Not sure what you are trying to prove. Clearly he hadn't fully gained the position or they wouldn't have touched and if Alonso did move over because he thought he was clean past then it was his mistake.


Yeah its like after putting a driven wheel of the track and hence almost necessarily loosing momentum Räikkönen really had no way to come back at Alonso, thus really at no time before contact could Alonso really have cleared Räikkönen. Incidentally in 94 Mika Häkkinen got race ban for a move which was very much like Alonso's on Räikkönen this morning: While moving sideways on track clipping the front wing of a car you mistakenly thought you had cleared.

Edited by Oho, 07 October 2012 - 10:20.


#123 swerved

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:19

He should have park the car outside the track and let Alonso pass ;)

I would love to see Alonso's reaction if someone else had push him out of the track, the way he pushed Raikkonen.



We've already seen and heard it this year, he's on the radio immediately crying and complaining, when Vettel did to him something similar to that which he'd previously done to Vettel, Alonso is fine when he's winning, but he appears to think he's exempt from the rules he expects every other driver to abide by, its rank hypocrisy, and the sign of a very very bad loser.

#124 Niceone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:20



I'm just leaving this here :lol:

#125 Ferrari2183

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:23

This thread is about as ridiculous as the "I don't care" thread.

I think both Raikkonen and Alonso could have done certain things to avoid the incident but it is what it is.

As for Raikkonen's comments... Why the surprise? He's always been a rebel without a cause.

#126 Oho

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:25

This thread is about as ridiculous as the "I don't care" thread.


Of course it is consequent of that thread as most people whining in that one seem to have soft spot for Alonso...

#127 Konsta

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:27



I'm just leaving this here :lol:


What an incredible hypocrite!! Hopefully he later eats the humble pie and retracts his words.

#128 MonacoMaster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:29

What an incredible hypocrite!! Hopefully he later eats the humble pie and retracts his words.


Lol, not going to happen.

#129 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:32

Guys, Fernando is a fantastic racer who rarely makes ANY mistake. Yes, he's solid and extremely reliable.
However his low point is that he acts like a virgin whenever things don't go his way. he waves his hand like a mad man, whines on the radio, whines to the press, complains to the pitwall etc.
That's his flaw, when the pressure gets to him he starts complaining
he's not perfect but I think we have to accept that. he's human and makes mistakes...and he has a flaw :). still his driving is just incredible

#130 AlexS

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:33

As if the positions were the same. They weren't. Raikonnen should have backed off.

Edited by AlexS, 07 October 2012 - 10:34.


#131 Konsta

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:34

Guys, Fernando is a fantastic racer who rarely makes ANY mistake. Yes, he's solid and extremely reliable.
However his low point is that he acts like a virgin whenever things don't go his way. he waves his hand like a mad man, whines on the radio, whines to the press, complains to the pitwall etc.
That's his flaw, when the pressure gets to him he starts complaining
he's not perfect but I think we have to accept that. he's human and makes mistakes...and he has a flaw :). still his driving is just incredible

:up:
Agree on ALL parts, good and bad.

#132 Tsarwash

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:42

I would like to say that I am Very Angry about all of this !

#133 canaus

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:42

- Start

Alonso was in sandiwch of Mclaren , Sauber and Raikkonen.
0.16 Alonso and Raikkonen side by side
0.17 Alonso trying to go inside and give more space for Kimi ,but also Mclaren same time is going outside, there was no place for Raikkonen right now, he should back of, but probably he didn't see what is going on.



At first I thought It was Alonso's fault, that he was weaving or something..... But looking more and more, it's clear that it wasn't his fault at all, no one's fault in fact.

Look from second 0.14 on.

0.15: Alonso is pushing Kimi to the left, still it's room for Kimi. Kimi is now half alongside Alonso. At this moment Button is heading to the right trying to have a look at Grosjean on inside.

0.16: Alonso is realising Kimi will not yield, and he is starting to move a bit to the right, just to give Kimi room. At this moment Button is realising that can't make it to the inside of Grosjean and he is very quickly heading to the left to have the inside of Alonso. Kimi is still comitted to be outside of Alonso in Turn 1, he doesn't see what Button does. There will be no more that 2 cars alongside in that corner, as this truck is very norrow.

0.17: Just at the biginning of the 0.17, Button continue his sudden move to Alonso. Alonso in fact, is still moving to the right to give room to Kimi, but he sees Button coming straight to him. Alonso is aware of both in this moment, but he is surprised by how fast Button is coming into him, he thinks that Button will push him more to the left to have a much better ungle in turn 1 and he is reacting just moving a bit to Kimi, being aware that Kimi is still there and he will be sandwiched. Because of that many of you thought that he was weaving.

0.18: Kimi is pushing into the grass and when he rejoins he touch Alonso's tyre. There is no Button's fault, as he wasn't aware that Kimi still hangging on Fernando.

Absolutly no one to blame, just one of those incidents when 3 cars are going to a corner that can take only 2. Obvously the one in the middle will in most cases lose. No weaving: move right to close Kimi, move left to give space to Kimi, move right because of Button.

What Alonso says is that Kimis should have lift. Probably should, but Kimi didn't know that Button will close Fernando so fast.

#134 kismet

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:43

So Fernando Alonso admits he doesn't understand stuff? I don't see what the big deal is. And because I'm rude and unsportsmanlike, I don't even care.

As for the incident itself... Still not seeing the big deal. As long as they allow multiple cars out on a limited piece of real estate, these things will happen. Tough sledding when things go wrong of course, but I've been led to believe that going wheel-to-wheel at 150 mph without crashing into shit and being forced to retire is supposed to be a valuable skill for a racing driver. And if it isn't, it should be.

Edited by kismet, 07 October 2012 - 12:36.


#135 Avastrol

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:45

Guys, Fernando is a fantastic racer who rarely makes ANY mistake. Yes, he's solid and extremely reliable.
However his low point is that he acts like a virgin whenever things don't go his way. he waves his hand like a mad man, whines on the radio, whines to the press, complains to the pitwall etc.
That's his flaw, when the pressure gets to him he starts complaining
he's not perfect but I think we have to accept that. he's human and makes mistakes...and he has a flaw :). still his driving is just incredible


Yes, I agree, and I expect similarly-themed comments to continue until the end of the season, or until Seb suffers a championship-losing engine or alternator failure (like Schumi in Suzuka 06). Basically as long as the championship pressure is on, I think we'll be seeing more comments with a lashing-out vibe. It's in the personality.

#136 Cyanide

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:46

Kimi should have suddenly braked so Hamilton behind him would take him out. Or he should have parked the car on the grass and wait until all the cars pass so he's out of danger. I wonder why he didn't think about that.

#137 Fontainebleau

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:51

Not sure what you are trying to prove. Clearly he hadn't fully gained the position or they wouldn't have touched and if Alonso did move over because he thought he was clean past then it was his mistake.

I think that I explained this in a previous post, but I am not sure if it was on this thread: the rule says that for two cars to be level, the front wing of the car behind had to be at the same level as the other car's rear wheel. If you look at the video, it looks like Raikkonen hits Alonso's wheel from behind, not from the side, hence as per the rule description the position had been gained.



Anywa, this discussion is not going to change the results of the race, and if people are enjoying themselves by blaming Alonso so be it. Some of them have been waiting for this opportunity for a long time :p

#138 currupipi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:53

At first I thought It was Alonso's fault, that he was weaving or something..... But looking more and more, it's clear that it wasn't his fault at all, no one's fault in fact.

Look from second 0.14 on.

0.15: Alonso is pushing Kimi to the left, still it's room for Kimi. Kimi is now half alongside Alonso. At this moment Button is heading to the right trying to have a look at Grosjean on inside.

0.16: Alonso is realising Kimi will not yield, and he is starting to move a bit to the right, just to give Kimi room. At this moment Button is realising that can't make it to the inside of Grosjean and he is very quickly heading to the left to have the inside of Alonso. Kimi is still comitted to be outside of Alonso in Turn 1, he doesn't see what Button does. There will be no more that 2 cars alongside in that corner, as this truck is very norrow.

0.17: Just at the biginning of the 0.17, Button continue his sudden move to Alonso. Alonso in fact, is still moving to the right to give room to Kimi, but he sees Button coming straight to him. Alonso is aware of both in this moment, but he is surprised by how fast Button is coming into him, he thinks that Button will push him more to the left to have a much better ungle in turn 1 and he is reacting just moving a bit to Kimi, being aware that Kimi is still there and he will be sandwiched. Because of that many of you thought that he was weaving.

0.18: Kimi is pushing into the grass and when he rejoins he touch Alonso's tyre. There is no Button's fault, as he wasn't aware that Kimi still hangging on Fernando.

Absolutly no one to blame, just one of those incidents when 3 cars are going to a corner that can take only 2. Obvously the one in the middle will in most cases lose. No weaving: move right to close Kimi, move left to give space to Kimi, move right because of Button.

What Alonso says is that Kimis should have lift. Probably should, but Kimi didn't know that Button will close Fernando so fast.


agree with this, the one we should be talking about is Grosjean,whats up with this guy :drunk:

#139 Wander

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:54

At first I thought It was Alonso's fault, that he was weaving or something..... But looking more and more, it's clear that it wasn't his fault at all, no one's fault in fact.

Look from second 0.14 on.

0.15: Alonso is pushing Kimi to the left, still it's room for Kimi. Kimi is now half alongside Alonso. At this moment Button is heading to the right trying to have a look at Grosjean on inside.

0.16: Alonso is realising Kimi will not yield, and he is starting to move a bit to the right, just to give Kimi room. At this moment Button is realising that can't make it to the inside of Grosjean and he is very quickly heading to the left to have the inside of Alonso. Kimi is still comitted to be outside of Alonso in Turn 1, he doesn't see what Button does. There will be no more that 2 cars alongside in that corner, as this truck is very norrow.

0.17: Just at the biginning of the 0.17, Button continue his sudden move to Alonso. Alonso in fact, is still moving to the right to give room to Kimi, but he sees Button coming straight to him. Alonso is aware of both in this moment, but he is surprised by how fast Button is coming into him, he thinks that Button will push him more to the left to have a much better ungle in turn 1 and he is reacting just moving a bit to Kimi, being aware that Kimi is still there and he will be sandwiched. Because of that many of you thought that he was weaving.

0.18: Kimi is pushing into the grass and when he rejoins he touch Alonso's tyre. There is no Button's fault, as he wasn't aware that Kimi still hangging on Fernando.

Absolutly no one to blame, just one of those incidents when 3 cars are going to a corner that can take only 2. Obvously the one in the middle will in most cases lose. No weaving: move right to close Kimi, move left to give space to Kimi, move right because of Button.

What Alonso says is that Kimis should have lift. Probably should, but Kimi didn't know that Button will close Fernando so fast.


I agree.


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#140 908T

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:54

We've already seen and heard it this year, he's on the radio immediately crying and complaining, when Vettel did to him something similar to that which he'd previously done to Vettel, Alonso is fine when he's winning, but he appears to think he's exempt from the rules he expects every other driver to abide by, its rank hypocrisy, and the sign of a very very bad loser.


Yes! Exactly! Should be punished too.


#141 encircled

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:58

View from Massa onboard



#142 mardmarium

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:00

My sentiments exactly. I really wish someone who feels Alonso is doing an amazing job leading the championship in a sh*t car would actually compile an argument proving so, backed up by some facts or valid points. I just don't get why people say it's a cr@p car. It might have started so beginning of the season but it certainly is not anymore. Massa's result today shows that. He drove perfectly and deserves the 2nd place, but it's not like he had to dig deep and "out-perform the car". The car delivered.



The curious thing is that many people have maintained the following theory during the season: the car is one of the best and Massa's bad results don´t prove anything because he is not the same driver after the accident, he has been forced to "number two status" and so on...Now theory seems to be: Massa's results prove the car is one of the best...

Alonso hasn´t said he is driving a crap car, he has said the car isn´t fast enough, and analyzing what I've seen and read (from people involved in F1, and mainly from people involved in Ferrari) I have to agree with him.

The car isn´t fast enough for win the title, not at the moment. At the beginning of the season the car was “specially not good enough” everybody inside and outside Ferrari (everybody involved in F1 world) has said it. They have had problems with their wind tunnel, car's development hasn´t achieved their rivals level...it's not a matter of having a crap car, it's a matter of having worse car than others...Ferrari has been saying during all the season "we still need to improve the car" that has been a constant (as a Ferrari supporter I know it perfectly), sometimes it has worked, other times, too many times, it hasn´t.

Ferrari’s pole positions during this season have been achieved in extreme weather conditions that tell us something. If you don´t have the best car, and Ferrari hasn´t had it, everything will be more complicated.

I consider Alonso a very direct and honest person in what he says. You can like it or not, but he seems to say what he thinks and he has much more information than us of what he is talking about...if he says “it would be a miracle if we win the title”, my common sense dictates me that I must be worried. The only recent GP in which I´ve seen Ferrari in a dominant situation (dominant/equal situation) has been Monza and in that case Alonso said Ferrari was the fastest car…in Singapore and Korea Ferrari has been in no way near RBR, despite fantastic Massa’s performance today… and it’s been Vettel, RBR driver, who has mainly reduced the gap with Alonso… so I’m a Ferrari supporter and I say that, at the moment, the car isn´t good enough.

By the way, racing incident, in my opinion.



#143 canaus

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:05

Stop blaming someone. As I said in my post, this is the classical racing incident, when there are 3 cars in the turn 1 ans shold be only 2.
If one it's not aware of this, it happend this. But I want to say that all this 3 Button, Alonso, Kimi are one of the most fairest drivers in Formula1. And they all made it just a bit anavoidable.

Alonso is reacting in the heat of the moment, It's not Kimi's faul it's just one of those. It's just bad luck and his rivels have had also.

#144 Ze Bum

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:11

"I don't understand why Kimi didn't lift off or anything because there was not any room. I don't know what Kimi's idea was for the first corner"


Sounds like Alonso doesn't care about Kimi and Kimi's front wing at all.

How rude. :cry:


#145 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:12

Stop blaming someone. As I said in my post, this is the classical racing incident, when there are 3 cars in the turn 1 ans shold be only 2.
If one it's not aware of this, it happend this. But I want to say that all this 3 Button, Alonso, Kimi are one of the most fairest drivers in Formula1. And they all made it just a bit anavoidable.

Alonso is reacting in the heat of the moment, It's not Kimi's faul it's just one of those. It's just bad luck and his rivels have had also.

Yet it was Alonso who drove Kimi off track, and the one who punctured his left rear after chopping onto Kimi's front wing (even though, the rule says that if the wing is on level with the rear wing you have to leave room...)

#146 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:14

Anywa, this discussion is not going to change the results of the race, and if people are enjoying themselves by blaming Alonso so be it. Some of them have been waiting for this opportunity for a long time :p


Hence the reaction!

#147 currupipi

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:18

Yet it was Alonso who drove Kimi off track, and the one who punctured his left rear after chopping onto Kimi's front wing (even though, the rule says that if the wing is on level with the rear wing you have to leave room...)


have to disagree, you can blame alonso for pushing kimi off the track, but the punture happens when kimi corrects the car rejoining and it is kimi who hits alonso rear tire

look at the video a few posts above

Edited by currupipi, 07 October 2012 - 11:19.


#148 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:18

Yet it was Alonso who drove Kimi off track, and the one who punctured his left rear after chopping onto Kimi's front wing (even though, the rule says that if the wing is on level with the rear wing you have to leave room...)


Where on Alonso's tyre was the contact made? Your hypothesis is that it was overlapping Kimi's front wing. Is there an image of that?

By the way, Kimi's onboard would be very helpful to understand this. Has it been shown anywhere?

#149 Lone

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:18

Stop blaming someone. As I said in my post, this is the classical racing incident, when there are 3 cars in the turn 1 ans shold be only 2.
If one it's not aware of this, it happend this. But I want to say that all this 3 Button, Alonso, Kimi are one of the most fairest drivers in Formula1. And they all made it just a bit anavoidable.

Alonso is reacting in the heat of the moment, It's not Kimi's faul it's just one of those. It's just bad luck and his rivels have had also.


It's a racing incident even if Alonso is pushing Kimi off the track. Alonso shouldn't put the blame on Kimi though. I think it's because of frustration and in his mind he can't accept doing anything wrong.


#150 sharo

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:20

It's a racing incident even if Alonso is pushing Kimi off the track. Alonso shouldn't put the blame on Kimi though. I think it's because of frustration and in his mind he can't accept doing anything wrong.

The reason for this thread IMHO.