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Would Grosjean learn from another ban?


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194 replies to this topic

Poll: Would it change anything if he was banned again? (292 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think he should receive another ban?

  1. Yes (114 votes [39.18%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.18%

  2. No (177 votes [60.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.82%

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#1 jrg19

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:32

After another first lap incident a lot of people are calling for another ban but would it make a difference?



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#2 Kvothe

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:34

No, considering he's taken out Alonso, Webber and Hamilton, in the context of the WDC it's only fair he be given the opportunity to take out Button and Vettel too.



#3 Andromeda

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:35

I think its about time the officials consider revoking Grosjeans F1 license.

#4 Schumacher7

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:35

Alonso should get one, what he did today was the same as what Grosjean did at Spa, and if it happens to open the championship up even further...

#5 glorius&victorius

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:36

Alonso should get one, what he did today was the same as what Grosjean did at Spa, and if it happens to open the championship up even further...


if only you had taken into account the context of the season so far...

#6 onewingedangel

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:37

Lotus need to act themselves - if the management can't get him to sort himself out, he should be replaced.

Edited by onewingedangel, 07 October 2012 - 09:37.


#7 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:37

No, Lotus needs to put him on the sidelines for the remainder of the season. Then work with him over the winter, possibly involving a former F1 driver as a mental coach. Much like Alex Wurz is doing at Williams.

#8 jrg19

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:38

For me it sometimes feels like he can't do two things at once, Monaco and today are examples when he's only looking at one of the drivers around him.

But a ban would just make it worse?

#9 F1FAN013

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:40

He has the speed but not the race-craft and spatial awareness. I do like Grosjean but he hasn't learnt from the last ban. I doubt he will learn from another ban. He is single handedly ruining a promising F1 career by getting into far too many incidents. This is costing the team dearly and I think a replacement would be appropriate for next season.

#10 Yhamm

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:45

I can't see how banning a driver who made a mistake can help him to learn anything.

It's like asking a child to go out of the classroom because he didn't know how to answer a question. How will he answer the next time?

Give grid penalty but as long as someone didn't crash on purpose, ban is the most stupid to do

#11 smoothcrim

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:46

I think the time has come to say,1 more 1st lap incident and your fired or the FIA must ban him for the rest of the season which would be as good as being fiored anyway because Lotus wont risk him for next year.

#12 K-One

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:49

Here is a suggestion - Let RG start his races on lap 2

#13 Sakae

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:50

I can't see how banning a driver who made a mistake can help him to learn anything.

It's like asking a child to go out of the classroom because he didn't know how to answer a question. How will he answer the next time?

Give grid penalty but as long as someone didn't crash on purpose, ban is the most stupid to do


+1
He will not learn anything from the ban. If however intent is to punish him, that’s a different argument altogether.


#14 Schumacher7

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:50

if only you had taken into account the context of the season so far...

Why would I care about that, if you've come looking for evenhandedness you've come to the wrong person? Need an Alonso ban, a Vettel DNF and solid Hamilton and Raikkonen performances to get the game open again.

#15 krapmeister

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:51

I doubt it, if he hasn't learnt from the first one. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt and thought the ban was a bit harsh considering what Maldonado has done - and not recieved one - but it really is happening far too often to be funny...

#16 F1FAN013

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 09:53

I doubt it, if he hasn't learnt from the first one. I used to give him the benefit of the doubt and thought the ban was a bit harsh considering what Maldonado has done - and not recieved one - but it really is happening far too often to be funny...


I definitely agree with this statement.

#17 Gecko

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:03

Not a race ban, the FIA really should consider revoking his superlicence. It would not have been the first such example (Ide), and he has enough pre-F1 collision history to show that he is not just someone with a lot of bad luck.

#18 F1ultimate

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:08

I blame Sir Jackie Stewart. Where is his mentorship?

#19 Topsu

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:09

I'm amazed if Lotus offer him a contract. He is Boullier's pet, but he is a horrible racing driver.

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#20 F1ultimate

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:11

I'm amazed if Lotus offer him a contract. He is Boullier's pet, but he is a horrible racing driver.


Money talks. Total is bankrolling him.

#21 SparkPlug

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:12

I am all for a ban. It has to be drilled into his head that he has to use the brakes more judiciously, especially when he's around other cars in lap 1. In all my years of watching F1, I dont remember watching a driver causing so many accidents which such alarming regularity.

#22 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:13

if only you had taken into account the context of the season so far...

True... But if Grosjean @spa deserves a race ban, then Alonso@Suzuka should deserve *something* (a reprimand, a 1 place penalty, his best time stripped of qualy at Korea, a fine... *something*)

But what happened IMO is that Grosjean was heavily penalized not only for what he did, but because of whom he took out (he did it before at Monaco, no actions taken). Had he (Grosjean) taken out Perez, Kobayashi, Hulkenberg, Buemi or the like instead of Hamilton or Alonso, I suspect he would not have had his suspension but a different penalty.


#23 jrg19

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:14

Does anyone think Total have a say in this considering they are part of the reason hes in the car?

Would they want another French driver should he be replaced?

#24 bauss

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:19

dude really needs to practice race starts all day long on the racing game or something.... he is starting like me in an F1 game.

His spatial awareness of more than one thing is really lacking for an F1 driver.... I feel bad for him, but he needs to do something about it.

Hopefully he takes SV out soon and balances his WDC influence b4 cutting it all out. :p

#25 Cyanide

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:20

I wouldn't keep him at Lotus next year. Put Kobayashi in there.

#26 Peter3hg

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:24

I would almost say he needs some more time in GP2 but he has already spent plenty of years there. He clearly has the ability required, just needs to control himself better.

#27 AlexS

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:24

If he gets a race ban then Raikonnen should be penalised.

#28 gerry nassar

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:24

A race ban wont help. He doesn't mean to do what he does, he just doesnt have ant race craft.

#29 ayali

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:27

I blame Sir Jackie Stewart. Where is his mentorship?

lol good one :up:

Romain is not a bad driver but he will need to work on his spatial awareness
Maybe a week in the simulator or with the PS3 practicing starts
Another ban won't help but perhaps the FiA should let him know in private that another first lap incident will mean the end of his season

#30 krapmeister

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:31

I don't know that more time on a PS3 will help out - wasn't there a case of a goalkeeper (David James?) that it was claimed had issues with depth perception from playing too many computer games early in his career? Perhaps that's Grosjean's problem - he has been playing too much PS3 and drives accordingly like he's in a computer game?

#31 Ze Bum

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:35

Difficult question to answer. Grosjean would not learn to be better by being away, but maybe Lotus would learn to replace him.


#32 Tsarwash

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:45

I think that Johnny Herbert's remarks were disgraceful, and he needs to be fired more than Grosjean does.

#33 Laster

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:48

http://www.f1-fansit...ingapore-shunt/

I find this so funny just last race in Singapore Webber was saying before the start about Grosjean “Yeah, he’s okay. He knows I’ve a good right hook on me so he will stay away from me,” he joked. “He better put his sneakers on if he hits me.”

And one race later here they are with Grosjean hitting Webber at the start of the race. I wonder if Webber's gonna show him the right hook.

#34 olliek88

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:51

No, he needs reassurance and support not alienation, that will only make things worse for the lad.

#35 ayali

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 10:59

I think that Johnny Herbert's remarks were disgraceful, and he needs to be fired more than Grosjean does.

Indeed they were
I had the impression Johnny already had a couple before the race even started
Don't think the FiA will ask him as a steward again after today's comments

#36 Ze Bum

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:00

No, he needs reassurance and support not alienation, that will only make things worse for the lad.


He's not a school boy, you know? He's a grown up man who is paid millions to be one of the biggest sport stars on the planet.


#37 Longtimefan

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:06

I think that Johnny Herbert's remarks were disgraceful, and he needs to be fired more than Grosjean does.

I missed that, what did he say?


#38 olliek88

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:08

He's not a school boy, you know? He's a grown up man who is paid millions to be one of the biggest sport stars on the planet.


Firstly he is not paid "millions" (£800,000). Secondly, if you truly believe being paid lots of money and being "grown up" means you can't have self doubt about your own performance & require reassurance then you are very, very naive. It very common even in a "normal" job with far less pressure.

#39 Mr.Wayne

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:09

I missed that, what did he say?

Add a word here and there, but he basically said that since Grosjean has proven that he is unable to learn, Renault should simply fire him and put someone who can have the job done.

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#40 Henrik B

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:09

I've watched my fair share of GP2 races and I have no recollection of him being especially bad at starts. He's just been overly optimistic in this season and THIS accident I believe is actually a result of him trying too hard not to crash into Perez, now that he knows everyone is out to get him. By now I think he's actually scared of doing starts.

He's been fast and stupid and the stupid can be taken out of him.

#41 Ze Bum

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:18

Firstly he is not paid "millions" (£800,000). Secondly, if you truly believe being paid lots of money and being "grown up" means you can't have self doubt about your own performance & require reassurance then you are very, very naive. It very common even in a "normal" job with far less pressure.


This is not a normal job. This is Formula 1 where only the toughest guys should survive.


#42 jrg19

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:18

Grosjean is a good driver but is this now at a stage where the damage is irreparable because he's going to be targeted no matter what he does from now on?

Would D'Ambrosio do any better?



#43 olliek88

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:25

This is not a normal job. This is Formula 1 where only the toughest guys should survive.


Thats a very outdated way of looking at things, try reading "Overdrive: F1 In The Zone", mind management in any competitive environment is crucial, to say you just need to toughen up etc is very naive.

#44 King Six

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:28

I can't see how banning a driver who made a mistake can help him to learn anything.

It's like asking a child to go out of the classroom because he didn't know how to answer a question. How will he answer the next time?

Give grid penalty but as long as someone didn't crash on purpose, ban is the most stupid to do

You can't give someone a grid penalty or a stop and go penalty after you have given them a race ban for the same ****ing thing. Also he is an adult Formula One professional race driver, not a child in a classroom for ****s sake. :down:

#45 krapmeister

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:33

You can't give someone a grid penalty or a stop and go penalty after you have given them a race ban for the same ****ing thing. Also he is an adult Formula One professional race driver, not a child in a classroom for ****s sake. :down:


And he's on his second shot at F1, after a rather disasterous first time round - although to be fair, that wasn't the best of team situations to be in. But I would be surprised if considering he's got complete backing from Total and managed by his Team Principal that he wasn't recieving enough support and reassurance this time round...

#46 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:33

The thread title and poll question suggest two different things.

Would he learn from another ban? He didn't learn from the last one this is quite clear. The guy just can't use his eyes let alone formulate a 3D picture of what is around him.

Does he deserve another ban? Yes. But as JOhnny Herbert said this needs to be taken out of the FIA's hands by the GPDA or the team. The guy is quick and talented but most of his brain fades are of such a base level that he has proven he can't race at this level, it's just too dangerous.

Lotus need to drop him unfortunately.

Edited by Tenmantaylor, 07 October 2012 - 11:39.


#47 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:40

I would almost say he needs some more time in GP2 but he has already spent plenty of years there. He clearly has the ability required, just needs to control himself better.


I wonder if there is anything they can do with the simulator to allow him to develop more awareness in these situations. It is a shame, as he seems good once he gets past the first couple of laps, so if there is a remedy other than a ban or losing his drive, it would make sense.

This can't go on, however.

#48 Tenmantaylor

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:43

I wonder if there is anything they can do with the simulator to allow him to develop more awareness in these situations. It is a shame, as he seems good once he gets past the first couple of laps, so if there is a remedy other than a ban or losing his drive, it would make sense.

This can't go on, however.


Don't know for certain but I was under the impression the simulators are for testing purposes only as a single car alone on the track. Maybe if the other drivers got together and raced at the same time LAN party style it might help. I somehow doubt they'd be willing to help though given he's ruined half of their races.

He could get onto iRacing to get more wheel to wheel experience maybe? Or at least karting.

#49 Jackmancer

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:47

The problem for Grosjean is that with every accident, his nervosity only goes up.

#50 garoidb

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Posted 07 October 2012 - 11:47

Don't know for certain but I was under the impression the simulators are for testing purposes only as a single car alone on the track. Maybe if the other drivers got together and raced at the same time LAN party style it might help. I somehow doubt they'd be willing to help though given he's ruined half of their races.

He could get onto iRacing to get more wheel to wheel experience maybe? Or at least karting.


Yes, I have the same impression, but maybe they (Lotus) could do something about it. Either that, or they may have to replace him.

It is possible that junior formulae don't provide much training in these aspects of racecraft, as the future F1 drivers are likely to be starting at the front. The reversal of the first 8 places on GP2 grids for the Sunday races is the exception, of course (only now do I realise why this is a good idea).